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  1. #1
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    Stupid Stupid hiker

    I potentially could have killed a hiker today. He was walking up the back of the only decent jump on the entire trail.
    If I hadn't been watching & stopped in time it would have been ugly. I was three seconds from being airborne when I saw the top of his umbrella. His wife was walking up the steps, like 99.9% of the rest of the hikers so they essentially had the entire trail blocked. He just didn't understand why I was put out. I didn't think of how close it was because I was so mad about him doing something so stupid. I thanked the Lord for the both of us after I calmed down a little as I rode on down trail.
    It's not marked as bikes only on that jump because no one ever walks up it. I will be speaking to a guy I know that runs the construction department of the park.
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  2. #2
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    Us bikers are at the bottom of the food chain. You have to yield to hikers, horses, and pretty much everyone. If you'd have hit them it would have been your fault. Don't know what your problem is. If you needed that jump then go back and do it again and make sure that the trail is cleared before you tried any stunts.

    I can't believe you think you have the right of way.

  3. #3
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    Re: Stupid Stupid hiker

    Mimi is totally right. Your attitude is perfect ban bikes fuel. Hikers have the right of way unless the trail is clearly marked bikes only. He could be in your landing, doing a handstand on the lip. . . It doesn't matter, you still need to yield to him. They don't conduct their hikes thinking about how to make your jump line better, or how to stay off the trail and avoid bikers, they just want to walk in the woods and use the trail like anyone else. It could just as easily have been a biker climbing up, who you would also need to yield to , so we shouldn't turn this into a hiker /biker thing.

    If your trail has hikers, and jumps with mediocre or bad sight lines, you gotta ride at a speed which, at the very very least, allows you to abort in time to avoid collisions, and, much better, does not scare the sh1t out of them and get bikes banned on your trail. Another option is to ride with a buddy and one goes ahead as a spotter, riding more conservatively, and can stop, call back and warn the second rider when a hiker is encountered .

    It sucks and can ruin a downhill but such is our sport. Other options are to find bikes only trails (or, 'defacto' bikes only because they are secret or so remote that hikers never walk them), or, find trails with better sight lines, or hit up the DH park. Or rally your local authorities to create dh only /bikes only trails. Or build your own trail.

  4. #4
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    OP is completely in the wrong. Be mad all you want, you are wrong for it. Yield to hikers, horses, etc. as mentioned above. If the trail is marked as bikes only, you might have a leg to stand on, but in this case, you do not. Even bike only trails may have hikers/runners/walkers, etc. You cannot ride so out of control that you cannot stop in time if something or someone appears on the trail. It is irresponsible as a cyclist.
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  5. #5
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    Yikes, looks like another rant back fired. Hikers have right away on trails around here, AND a hiker going uphill at that, that's 2 whammies.
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  6. #6
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    I have nearly hit so many hikers because they fail to acknowledge mtbers. And that's their right, but you have to realize what's going on around you otherwise you're gonna get run over. One place I go has separate hiking trails, yet they still pop their ear buds in and mute themselves to their environment while strolling on the mtbing trails instead of their own. There are signs. One dude is walking and one dude is riding a bike. Pretty easy. Obviously this isn't the op's trail situation, but that's my gripe. I might have the right of way as a pedestrian in the street, but that doesn't mean I blindly walk around in traffic either. There is personal responsibility, for both parties.

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  7. #7
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    They hike on the bikes only trails. Walk in the middle of the road. Take off down a 6 mile trail with their dog & one bottle of water. Etc etc. Was talkin about to the bike patrol yesterday. They carried out a girl having an asthma attack while her bf just kept right on walking. Seems like they just lose their minds when they step out of the car.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Stupid Stupid hiker

    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    They hike on the bikes only trails. Walk in the middle of the road. Take off down a 6 mile trail with their dog & one bottle of water. Etc etc. Was talkin about to the bike patrol yesterday. They carried out a girl having an asthma attack while her bf just kept right on walking. Seems like they just lose their minds when they step out of the car.
    Sure, and you'll never need help out. You'll never forget your water or run out of it, and you'll never crash. Oh and when climbing, I guess this means you'll never take up the middle either, you will always make room for the possibility that you might ruin downhiller's jump or line, at all times, hugging the side dutifully. . . even if that means skipping the best climbing line yourself. Every time. Even at the last climb out of an all day 40 mi epic. Also, I guess if you ever wreck on a landing you will immediately move off the trail, no matter how hurt you are, and even if you are unconscious, you will still subconsciously crawl to a safe location. Got it.

    You must not ride much or have been riding very long because when you do 1000 mi+ a year for long enough eventually all those things will happen to you too.

    The only time when your original post, and your feeling of entitlement to not have anyone ruining your jump line , is excusable, would be if you were on a bikes only, downhill only trail, and even then, it's not, because another rider could easily be down after the jump. If you want closed courses, race. That's pretty much it.

  9. #9
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    I can only relate to the OP on one of our local flow tracks where I constantly deal with idiots who walk from the paved path to the flow track designed specifically for mtb (not hiking) and take selfies on the bermed corners, obstacles and jumps or walk their dogs on it. Add to the that the newbs who try to climb back up the dh sections instead of the paved path. As for every other trail that isn't exclusive to mtb, I'm always yielding to some kind of horse, hiker or otherwise confused individuals just to maintain peace and show some kind of civility.

    We are outnumbered by hikers, in a courtroom fight we'll likely end up on the losing side

  10. #10
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    Re: Stupid Stupid hiker

    I hear you tuffguy and we've all been there but let's not confuse the situation.

    Op specifically stated
    It's not marked as bikes only on that jump because no one ever walks up it.
    And its important that we know our responsibilities or folks are going to lose access. Hitting a hiker coming off a jump when you don't have right of way is the perfect way to get the local Sierra Club or environmental group out in droves and lose access to the whole trail, not to mention seriously hurt someone.

  11. #11
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    The title was 'stupid hiker', not 'hiker who didn't have the right of way'.

    Just because you can legally walk in the woods doesn't mean you're not an idiot. It's not hard to look at a downhill track, figure out what it's for and exercise a bit of common sense. To be honest, without seeing this exact situation first hand I can't say that the hikers were idiots but I've certainly met plenty who were. Old bearded busybodies, the women as well, who yell at you to get off the path when you're on a bike track!

    There is a purpose-built cycle track where I live and we never use it as it's populated by dog walkers who either have zero control over their dogs or use those retched extendible tripwires. And they act like you are the nuisance when they have to move over for you.

    They are not all bad but let's be honest, there are some self-righteous, ignorant and stupid hikers out there. It's not always our fault.

  12. #12
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    Know what I don't get? One of the trails I ride has a trail marked Bikes and a trail marked hiking right alongside of it. Hikers are ALWAYS on the bike trail but then lose their minds if you ride a bike on their trail even by accident.
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  13. #13
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    These people are out to have a nice time, they're not out there to be vigilant about a 200lbs sled coming at them. They may not even be regular trail users of any kind. You see berm or a jump they see and tall dirt pile. If you don't ride you see the trail in a different fashion. It's like when driving I always see the road as what it would be like to ride on my road bike: smooth pavement, nice climb, or wide shoulder. I would say most people who don't ride don't do that while they drive. I ride in downtown Richmond VA on a multi-use trails that are pretty technical but everyone and their mother accesses this trail. We rarely have beefs on the trail because the mtb culture here is all about teaching the newbs how to better represent the community. I will stop any rider on the trail if I see them practicing anything unsafe on the trail like passing joggers or not yielding to climbers. Just give them a heads up that its not cool and we want to continue to have access to these great trails right by our homes. JUST BE THE BIGGER PERSON!
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  14. #14
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    I'm not saying that all hikers are morons. Let's agree that most of them are nice people, just like most cyclists are nice too. I'm just attacking this idea that the biker is automatically the bad guy and walkers can do no wrong. I think they can twats just as easily as a cyclist can be a twat. That's all I'm saying. And without seeing the exact situation in the OP's post I don't think you can make the call 100% on who's to blame.

  15. #15
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    Stupid Stupid hiker

    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    They hike on the bikes only trails. Walk in the middle of the road. Take off down a 6 mile trail with their dog & one bottle of water. Etc etc. Was talkin about to the bike patrol yesterday. They carried out a girl having an asthma attack while her bf just kept right on walking. Seems like they just lose their minds when they step out of the car.
    Which bike only trail in Texas.

    I'm in SoCal so I guess not as familiar with the concept of bikes only trail as no one would allowed such trails to be built unless it's shared. Plus unless it's a dedicated descend it would have spelled doom for you anyways.

    You see you have the right to pursue your happiness it may not be at the exact second on your descend if it's at the cost of others safety.

    I read your post I feel your pain, I'm just saying your line of thinking is wrong as we are never going to win in court whenever the collusion occurs.

  16. #16
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    For every "stupid" hiker, there are at least 10 equally if not more "stupid" mtn bikers. Meanwhile, those hikers --smart or stupid-- have the potential to form into a collective voice that can demand action regardless of who is right or wrong. History is written by the victors, and hikers will most definitely be victorious if and when they decide to take action.

  17. #17
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    Just wanted to go on record saying that you are wrong. I agree with many of those who have responded already.
    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    I potentially could have killed a hiker today. He was walking up the back of the only decent jump on the entire trail.
    If I hadn't been watching & stopped in time it would have been ugly. I was three seconds from being airborne when I saw the top of his umbrella. His wife was walking up the steps, like 99.9% of the rest of the hikers so they essentially had the entire trail blocked. He just didn't understand why I was put out. I didn't think of how close it was because I was so mad about him doing something so stupid. I thanked the Lord for the both of us after I calmed down a little as I rode on down trail.
    It's not marked as bikes only on that jump because no one ever walks up it. I will be speaking to a guy I know that runs the construction department of the park.

  18. #18
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    Stupid Stupid hiker

    The only "bike only" trail I know around here is my front and back yard between 11am-7pm mon-fri. No one has ever step in front of my jumps guarantee.


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  19. #19
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    The year must have been, oh, 1980-81. My childhood friend's little nephew, 8 years old was riding his go-cart around a local track that was used by guys on bikes and a few that rode dirt bikes.
    A high school acquaintance named Andy was riding his motorcycle around the same track in the same area as the little kid on the go cart. The 8 year old approached a berm, Andy approached from the other direction on his motorcycle to jump. He couldn't see the kid approaching from the other direction.

    He jumped and landed right on the kid in the go-cart.

    Bless his heart the kid's dad was there and witnessed it but couldn't do a thing to stop it. He rushed to his kid, with his smashed in head, scooped him up and rushed him to the hospital.

    But nothing could be done.

    It wasn't the kid's fault. Wasn't Andy's fault. Just happened. I would bet Andy has wished 10,000 times over the course of his life that he would have checked that jump before he made it.

    Nothing can be undone after it happens. Doesn't much matter who's fault it is.

  20. #20
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    The only time you have the right of way on a bike is on a closed race course. And even then, sometimes you have to dodge people on foot.
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  21. #21
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    Ok folks, please read the parts of the post where I didn't cuss him out or say anything untoward to him. My only words were " Dude......" Then after he looked at me quizzically then said ' Here you go. Just go right over." & and made a waving down & up motion with his arm. I said "It's a little late now" , simply shook my head & rode past. What irked me was the complete lack of observation of his surroundings.
    I observed him coming up the jump & stopped. I did my part. Not one of you said " wow nice catch." I know the rules. most always the hikers & cyclists are polite and respectful of one another.
    Last time I stopped for hikers at the bottom line of a climb two of them apologized for making me stop at the bottom.
    When they move over & let me by I ALWAYS thanks them. I stopped yesterday and let about 6 get by me. It's give & take mixed with a touch of respect.
    I have shared water with people & their four legged friends. I have made jokes & spoken with people on the trails.
    I suppose to out of all the people I have encountered this guy didn't get it. That's what irritated me.
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  22. #22
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    Why it is true we bikers are at the bottom of the food chain does not change the fact that the hikers could of been stupid.
    On a local trail around me that are clearly mark as bike trails there are hikers and trail runners. Most of the time there is not an issue big time with the regular trail runners who know where the corners are and listen for bikers as we have a lot more speed and might not see them in time. No matter who has the right away being injured is not worth it and everyone gets alone.
    Now the trail maintainers and designers did make a point to make sure that the trails were Umm not hiker friendly every so often to discouraged their use by the non riding kind so that helps plus the trail runners/hikers tend to also be riders.

    The only time I ever had an issue that got my nerves is when a hiker who I slow down stop gave the right away to complained to me about how bikers should not be on the trails and how the trails had stupid bike stuff in them.
    My response to him was bikers are the ones who maintain these trails and I suggested that he read the signs at the trail heads which say BIKE TRAILS. He did not seem to like that to much but at the same time kind of hard to argue with that point as well.

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  23. #23
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    At some of our recreational areas we have well signed Bike only, Hike only and shared trails, these are designated by the National Parks Authority (executive govt branch). I have not heard of any serious incidents between hikers and bikers but I have seen near misses on a few occasions, mostly idiot hikers on the bike trail or bikers behaving like idiots on shared trails or hike only trails.
    If it did come down to an injury to a hiker (or a biker) from a collision, given how our legal system works here if the hiker was on the bike trail they would have have to prove some sort of intent or recklessness on the part of the biker to injure him or he would have no claim as he shouldn't be there. If it happened on shared or hike only trails the biker would be liable hands down. I don't fully go for it on our trails as I wouldn't want to test out the liability and if I did hit a hiker I reckon I would be just as likely to get injured as they.

    Wherever you have any sort of countryside tracks and trails that have car park access and are less than an hour or so drive from an urban area you have to expect crowds of people. Some of my favourite trails involve a boat ride and several miles of steep dirt road cycling before getting to the trail areas and guess what even on weekends and holidays very rare we even see another soul.

  24. #24
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    Well really, if hikers were smart, they'd be on bikes. Who wants to walk through the woods when you could ride?? Duh.

    LOL

    In all seriousness, I just try to stay out of the ares used by hikers. The trail area closest to my house for instance. It's convenient, but it's not a fun ride because there's a hiker, person on a horse, or dog walker around just about every corner. I stopped going because I could never seem to get in a good ride.

    On other trails, we stick to the more remote areas and don't seem to see many at all.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    They hike on the bikes only trails. Walk in the middle of the road. Take off down a 6 mile trail with their dog & one bottle of water. Etc etc. Was talkin about to the bike patrol yesterday. They carried out a girl having an asthma attack while her bf just kept right on walking. Seems like they just lose their minds when they step out of the car.
    What you provided right there IS THE JUSTIFICATION for it being your job to not hit them. Until we can find a way to put otherwise permeable retard-proof fences to outdoor areas, it is how it is now for a reason.

  26. #26
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    I asked a ranger for his take on multi-use trail traffic - he told me anyone / thing moving faster has to yield the right away. After years of riding I have realized hikers, walkers etc. are not going to change their mindset for you.

  27. #27
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    I do my best to ride in off (very hot) hours to avoid other trail users. Yesterday there were about 7000000 people in the park. At that point we switched over to a slow down, watch for people in trouble eyes & ears mode. I am learning the side loops that aren't as well traveled. They are definitely more challenging. As my skills grow I will be able to ride the trails less traveled.
    BTW Proctor,
    The sarcastic tone of your second of three posts was uncalled for. If you would please remember this is the Beginner's Corner. Guess it makes you feel tough to chastise the noobs. The chance of any noob riding 1000 trail miles a year are pretty slim.
    How many trail miles a year do you ride?
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    The only time I ever had an issue that got my nerves is when a hiker who I slow down stop gave the right away to complained to me about how bikers should not be on the trails and how the trails had stupid bike stuff in them.
    It's a bit nuts to say that just by being on a bike automatically makes you in the wrong and being on foot makes you right. Sure, in principal you need to take care over who might have wandered onto the trail but in practice there are occasions where conflicts can occur that are not solely the riders fault. Walkers cannot be devoid of all responsibility.

    At Glentress last week I met three walkers on a shared forest road. I stopped and had a chat with them about where they go and walking in the forest in general. They were very nice, met them three times in different places actually, and they seemed pretty sensible about where they walked. They did admit that they walk on the bike trails and seemed to be careful about which ones were safe to walk on.

    Many of these purpose-built bike trails are designed to be fast flowing with jumps, tight turns and other features which might cause situations where a cyclist could easily get caught out by a walker being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It might be a rare occurrence but I just don't think it's reasonable to say that the cyclist always bears all responsibility.

    A few years ago I gave my opinion on a council consultation over plans to make the pavement along the main road in our village a shared-use cycle path. I opposed the idea pointing out how many roads and house drives and pathways cross the proposed cycle route. There are also many parked cars on the pavement and a busy shop where cars park all over the place. In my opinion it would be irresponsible to run bikes along there as there is too high a risk of conflict between cyclists and pedestrians. People on foot would have right of way but what if a child runs out of a house driveway into the path of a passing bike? Is the cyclist totally to blame?

    Last year we came off a local forest track onto a back-road and stopped to talk for a minute. Two of the guys stood with their bikes in the middle of the road, right next to a blind bend. It's a quiet road but sure enough, a car whizzed round the bend and had to slam on the brakes. Now I think the driver would have been to blame if he had hit my two friends, he should be driving in a way that allowes him to stop in the road he could see to be clear, but all of the responsibility? Don't you think it was even a little stupid of my friends to stand in the middle of what is legally a 60mph road right next to a blind bend? I do.

    And the idea that you should check the trail first!! Let's take for example the Spookywood decent at glentress. It's a fast down-hill decent with large berms, tables etc and is a one-way trail. The stiff climb is around the other side of the hill and takes a good ten, fifteen-minutes. So how the heck are you supposed to check that decent exactly?! Walk your bike down it, which would not be easy and take ages, then cycle back to the top in the hope that no muppet rambler had wandered onto the trail in the intervening time? I'm sorry but it just ridiculous. Certainly there are times when cyclists bear the responsibility, maybe even most of the time, but all of the time? No chance.

  29. #29
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    Well Im relativly new to MTBiking but I have to say, Im having way too much fun to mess it up by treating ANYBODY on the trail with less that the utmost of respect. Take a look at how society treats skateboarders and their ( skateboarders) attitude probaly keeps it going....

  30. #30
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    I almost hit a dog yesterday going around a sharp turn all of a sudden there was a huge black german shepherd. The owner was back a little ways from it with her two kids i stopped kept my bike between me and it even though she swore it was friendly but with no leash and the dog being scared when i came up on it I was taking no chances. I was pretty pissed but just let it go did not feel it was worth arguing with her since she had small kids with her . It is not even the that I almost hit it that bothered me the dog not having a leash did no one knows how a dog will react if someone is coming up fast on it's family which it would most likely protect. Not to mention the dog did not respond to the owners commands at all. But they are multi use trails and I do want to cause people to complain about bikers becuase most would just see her and the kids having a good time with their pet and me as the agressor.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by twall06 View Post
    I almost hit a dog yesterday...
    I hate irresponsible dog owners and their mantra of 'It's all right, he won't touch you'. At least I like the dog if not the owner.

    Now cats... ;0)

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    I do my best to ride in off (very hot) hours to avoid other trail users. Yesterday there were about 7000000 people in the park. At that point we switched over to a slow down, watch for people in trouble eyes & ears mode. I am learning the side loops that aren't as well traveled. They are definitely more challenging. As my skills grow I will be able to ride the trails less traveled.

    BTW Proctor,
    The sarcastic tone of your second of three posts was uncalled for. If you would please remember this is the Beginner's Corner. Guess it makes you feel tough to chastise the noobs. The chance of any noob riding 1000 trail miles a year are pretty slim.
    How many trail miles a year do you ride?
    Because this is a beginner's corner we need to put this nonsense to rest correctly. You can't go around calling hikers stupid, stupid when you are the one with attitude. The right attitude would be kissing the ground they hike because they allow you to share the trails. Don't like it? too bad it's happening all over the place, even when we build and maintain the trails.


    The sad thing about this is after all this back and forth you still think that you did nothing wrong, with the "It's little too late now" and head shaking disapproval. This is a beginner's corner, not your local forum or off topic forum, you can be planting this stuffs on noobs. They don't know any better, yet. Go post this thing on your local region forum, we don't need it here.

    If you want to shoot the sh!t about how eff' up it is, PM me I'll share some of my experience with hikers with you just don't go around ranting about issues we can fix, yet. Your entitled attitude is not helping.

    Go ahead I'll let you have the last word.

  33. #33
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    Mimi
    The trails belong to all of us regardless of what you seem to think. Hikers simply have the right of way & we are ALL expected to share the trail.
    Two wrongs do not make a right. My attitude is mine. If you dont like it, fine. I could really care less. You don't ride my trails & I don't ride yours. Nothing you can say will change the way I feel about the incident that almost was. Hikers, dogs, horses, & bikes, coexist quite nicely for the most part where I ride. It is actually a very high percentage of cooperation considering the huge number of folks of all disciplines I have interacted with on the trail already.
    I don't need to be " put in my place" at my age. I find your attitude offensive and condescending.
    Good day.
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    Regretfully I hit a hiker last year. Totally my fault! I have been biking 25+ years and pride myself on knowing the rules for trail etiquette. I got careless one day and made contact with a female hiker. No one was hurt but we both went down and tumbled on the ground a bit. I was a headed down a small grade that allows for speed to quickly build. There were two hikers headed in the same direction as me. As I approached them from behind, at about 50 yard mark I scrubbed my speed to maybe 7-10 MPH. I believe both hikers saw me because they turned their heads to look behind. The trail is double track with wide open space on both sides. As I closed in, they were slowly moving from the middle of the trail to right. I made eye contact with the man hiking as he looked back a second time but the female hiker kept talking without a second glace to see where I was at. I decided to go left and wide since she did not look back again. At about the 4 foot mark, she was clearly startled and leaped directly in my path. I then grabbed all the brake I could and pointed the bike even more left. She too panicked and went more left. When I knew I could not avoid her I remember thinking, make contact with your body not the bike. For some reason I thought this would hurt her less? We ended up making contact off the trail about foot or so. My right shoulder hit her right shoulder. She and I both tumbled down to the ground. I quickly ran to her aid. She had a couple of small scrapes and a torn hat. I sincerely apologized and offered to get her medical attention as well as pay for her hat. She declined. Both hikers were very nice and cool about the whole thing. She admitted that she was new to hiking and did not know which way to go. We talked for about 10 minutes or so and then I was on my way. Iím just glad she was not hurt.

  35. #35
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    Maybe we can practice our tolerance here in this thread so, by the time we go riding, we're all little lambs, gleefully sharing the countryside with people that don't MTB. Wanna try on my rose-colored specs? Cheers...

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    In my area we only have multi use trails. And yes we have to yield to hikers and horse back riders. Its part of the deal. Just because mountain bike clubs and groups maintain a majority of the trails doesn't change that fact. Hiking the "wrong" way on a great flow track doesn't change that fact. It sucks that the OP couldn't hit his jump. But It happens... A LOT.. The best thing you can do as a cyclist besides not hitting a hiker or spooking a horse back rider is to get involved in your local trail group. Maybe then can you build that awesome in flow trail, or a down hill only trail for bikes only. Will it ever be perfect? No, but we need to be better. In our area, All the trail heads have wood boxes with little cow bells that we can borrow and attach to the bike.. They are always ringing so hikers and horse back riders can hear us coming. It was a condition of getting new trails built. Trail advocacy and education is the only way to solve these problems.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    Maybe we can practice our tolerance here in this thread so, by the time we go riding, we're all little lambs, gleefully sharing the countryside with people that don't MTB. Wanna try on my rose-colored specs? Cheers...
    Actually I have the contacts.
    My riding glasses fit better when I use them.
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    I was thinking seriously of doing that when it's real busy.
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  38. #38
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    Hey Velo - I'm sorry if you thought I went overboard, and you're right this is the beginner forum, but I really think the tone of your original post and your follow-up post was way over the top, and, as I was trying to point out (albeit with sarcasm, mea culpa), was quite hypocritical. You'll note my sarcasm kicked in when your second post showed that you weren't backing down from your stance, despite several replies that you were in the wrong, and instead kicked it up a notch, bringing up things we all do, whether hiker or biker.

    Imagine for a second that motobikes were now allowed on your trails. You're hitting your downhill, you're in your groove, and ready to hit the best ramp. A moto comes up the trail right at you, intending to jump UP the back of your jump, and yells at you for harping his hillclimb. Seriously, what would you do in this situation? Agree to not take up the middle again?

    At the top of this forum, there is a sticky directly relating to this. This topic is so important for noob's to the sport, and somewhat against human nature, that its a permanent fixture here and intended to be one of the first things that people read in their early exposures to the sport.

    These are the official IMBA rules of the trail, carved out of years of hard work in trail access, trail building, community activism, and countless hours by those who dedicated significant time out of their lives to obtain the trail access all of us enjoy. The rules are set as they are to create a balance between trail users, establish rules of engagement, protect people from getting hurt, avoid conflicts and keep things civil. Trail access will be a lot worse if everyone who comes to the beginner forum sees attitudes like yours and makes a mental judgment that its ok to confront hikers for harping our jump lines.


    YIELD APPROPRIATELY: Do your utmost to let your fellow trail users know youíre coming - a friendly greeting is a good method. Anticipate other trail users as you ride around corners. Bicyclists should yield to other non-motorized trail users, unless the trail is clearly signed for bike-only travel. Bicyclists traveling downhill should yield to ones headed uphill, unless the trail is clearly signed for one-way or downhill-only traffic. In general, strive to make each pass a safe and courteous one.


    You're still not backing down from your assertion that the hiker was somehow wrong. Seriously . . . find your local secret fight-club fraternity of DH trailbuilders. They are out there. Build ramps and berms with them and hit them over and over again and build them bigger. Hit up your closest lift-served bike park, wherever that is. From your avatar it looks like your in N Texas and Angle Fire is 4 hours from you. Find some buddies and go every weekend. But don't go expecting hikers to know not to hang out below your jumpline on a multi use trail.

    Trust me man, I've been in these situations too. I've felt what you feel. But I realized if you do your research, make friends with the mechanic at your LBS who has scars all over his shins, check your local strava heatmaps, etc, that there is so much trail out there, where you could huck yourself to the moon if you had the balls, with no hikers, where don't have to worry about this and you really should never again feel that you'd lost something by having to brake and wait on your local xc multi-use trail. Now, when I'm back on my multi-use trails, I realize where I am and what a gift it is to even have access to them in the first place.

  39. #39
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    Stupid Stupid hiker

    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    Mimi
    The trails belong to all of us regardless of what you seem to think. Hikers simply have the right of way & we are ALL expected to share the trail.
    Two wrongs do not make a right. My attitude is mine. If you dont like it, fine. I could really care less. You don't ride my trails & I don't ride yours. Nothing you can say will change the way I feel about the incident that almost was. Hikers, dogs, horses, & bikes, coexist quite nicely for the most part where I ride. It is actually a very high percentage of cooperation considering the huge number of folks of all disciplines I have interacted with on the trail already.
    I don't need to be " put in my place" at my age. I find your attitude offensive and condescending.
    Good day.
    Try sitting in to a few hearings about trail access ban for mountain bikers then it changes quickly. There are places that you can voice your opinion, including BMW, b!tch/moan/whine all you want. Fueling a potential fire on the beginners forum is not.

    If you don't need to be put in your place at your age, then act like a responsible one.

    Take a minute and think about what you posted.

    You were approaching a favorite part of the descend, one with the only decent jump, last seconds you spotted hikers you stopped, and gave them attitude with your " It's a little late now" because it ruined your fun. Then came here and titled your post stupid stupid hikers, what did they do wrong? You've got some nerve.

    My attitude is offensive to you, well too bad, it's what save the trails around here. We all have some real hikers nightmare stories, your was not a valid ones. You are just a guy who would not admit that you were pissed and wrong.

    If it was your daughter and her kids hiking up there and some riders did this to them what would you say to your daughter, too bad, so sad, you should have known better before you ruin other man's good jump?

    You don't get to share with just the civilized ones, you share with all. We just need to tolerate the naughty ones from time to time. Others do that to us(you have no idea), what makes you so special?


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  40. #40
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    I just walked in the door from work and the first thing my wife said to me was 'What is it with dog owners?'.

    She was walking along the cycle path and there was a guy coming the other way with a border collie. The dog bounded along the path towards my wife and jumped up on her pulling her earphones out. She was a bit flustered and while she was standing there, looking to see if her phones were ok, the guy just walked past without a word. No apology, nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by jarwes View Post
    In our area, All the trail heads have wood boxes with little cow bells that we can borrow and attach to the bike.. They are always ringing so hikers and horse back riders can hear us coming.
    That's very clever, isn't it rather annoying riding along with that racket all the time?

  41. #41
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    I hit hikers and then go back and punch them when they are on bike only trails.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
    I hit hikers and then go back and punch them when they are on bike only trails.
    Haha - I am not so extreme but I do stop and politely explain that they are on a bike trail and putting themselves and others in danger of getting hit and point them in the direction of the hiking trail. Surprise surprise it generally works.
    I also stop and tell some bikers not to be such f***ing idiots when they stop and block the single track out of sight from above and those that like to ride the track counter clockwise as opposed to clockwise as the sign at the entrance says. I am not so polite to them they should know better.
    OK the OP went a little over the top but I can understand his frustration, his best course of action would be to discuss getting bike only trails and proper signage / barriers between bike and hike trails with park authorities and user groups rather than throwing a strop. We have hike bike and shared trails here and by and large it works quite well. You will always get a few idiots though.

  43. #43
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    That's very clever, isn't it rather annoying riding along with that racket all the time?
    You'd think that but not really.. And I can hear some one coming from about 50 yards away or so.

  44. #44
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    This all kind of reminds me how lucky I am to have trails right out my door where seeing another person, whether they're a hiker, trail runner, dog walker, or another biker, is rare enough to be a bit of a highlight, and most of the regular users are on a first-name basis. Everybody does dumb **** sometimes; long as everybody tries to keep it friendly, it ends up working.
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    No joke, I'm glad you folks had this conversation. I only started riding un-paved trails a few months ago. And while I read the "Noobs Read" sticky and right of way seems like a common sense rule, I wasn't actively processing it. As of the three trails I've been on, only one had un-paved hiking paths cross-over and none of them have had more than 1 or 2 walkers. So there's never been any reason to actively contemplate that right of way as a lesson.

    So for that you have my thanks. Because, I think this is a good message to reiterate to my boys to make sure they're "riding aware". Faster yields.

    That said, at first I was a little surprised by Proctor and Mimi's responses, but reading through the whole thread it made sense. The harsh response was part of the lesson and one I think was good to get out here on the noob forum. Because the end result for those of us lurking here to learn would have been different if Proctor would have just said "Yeah, hikers are f'n stupid". There wouldn't have been a lesson and the lesson wouldn't have been driven home as hard as it was.


    Medicius

  46. #46
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    [QUOTE=SimpleJon;11428320]
    I also stop and tell some bikers not to be such f***ing idiots when they stop and block the single track out of sight from above and those that like to ride the track counter clockwise as opposed to clockwise as the sign at the entrance says. I am not so polite to them they should know better.
    [QUOTE]

    I know humor is lost sometimes on the internet but I hope you were being humorous here. Politeness goes a long way toward getting the message across. This sport is growing and there are a lot of new guys out there that doesn't know all of the "trail etiquette".
    If not, and you are serious, I suspect your message is being lost in your delivery style, if indeed this is how you pass along your message. Around my neck of the woods, you call bikers the term you used above, and you may be hobbling back to the trailhead with a fat lip and a bike wrapped around your neck!

  47. #47
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    I kind of know both perspectives.

    A while back before I got a bike I remember walking along a towpath with some people and being annoyed at a biker who made some comment about us taking the whole path. Part of it was his attitude though.

    After recently getting my bike and riding the same path, I can see the biker's annoyance. Where you have huge crowds of people walking the same direction and blocking the entire path. And not moving even with you shouting or ringing the bell.

    So a lot of it may be that hikers, dogwalkers, etc just don't have the perspective of riding the trail on the bike.

    If I recall correctly a nicer paved rail trail that I've ridden on clearly marks the etiquette or whatever of slower people staying to the right side of the trail.

    But other than using the word stupid and maybe going at it with the hiker a little bit longer than necessary, I don't really see anything wrong with the OP's post. ie the OP was in control enough to stop in time before a crash happened, knows it's not a bike only trail, and is going to talk to someone about it, etc. And if anything the OP is venting or sharing their experience with others who probably encountered similar situations.

  48. #48
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    I don't mind hikers. To a mountain lion or coyote they look much easier prey than does someone on a bike.

    In all seriousness, though, hikers may have the right of way, but that does not give them the right to spread out across the entire trail or to tune out everything around them. Pedestrians have the right of way over cars, but they don't walk or stand in the middle of the street wearing earphones.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmum View Post
    I kind of know both perspectives....
    But other than using the word stupid and maybe going at it with the hiker a little bit longer than necessary, I don't really see anything wrong with the OP's post. ie the OP was in control enough to stop in time before a crash happened, knows it's not a bike only trail, and is going to talk to someone about it, etc. And if anything the OP is venting or sharing their experience with others who probably encountered similar situations.
    I belive the point that some are missing here is not whether Hikers have a shared responsibility while on the trail, it is instead that we need to be better stewards then they. We will lose access to those trails not they. It does no one any good to be right, but still lose the trail because it is deemed a public saftey issue. In the case of the OP, the hiker did nothing wrong as it is not a bike only trail, not one direction, and quite frankly the hiker had as much right to be there as did the OP.

    Be a good representative of your sport, it only takes one bad apple to give alot of people a bad impression of all mountain bikers.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    It's a bit nuts to say that just by being on a bike automatically makes you in the wrong and being on foot makes you right. Sure, in principal you need to take care over who might have wandered onto the trail but in practice there are occasions where conflicts can occur that are not solely the riders fault. Walkers cannot be devoid of all responsibility.
    Mind me asking, where are you from? Area wise.
    "The risk was calculated, but man, I'm bad at math"

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phinias View Post
    I belive the point that some are missing here is not whether Hikers have a shared responsibility while on the trail, it is instead that we need to be better stewards then they. We will lose access to those trails not they. It does no one any good to be right, but still lose the trail because it is deemed a public saftey issue. In the case of the OP, the hiker did nothing wrong as it is not a bike only trail, not one direction, and quite frankly the hiker had as much right to be there as did the OP.

    Be a good representative of your sport, it only takes one bad apple to give alot of people a bad impression of all mountain bikers.

    Good post. Short, concise, to the point. Nothing more needs to be said.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkehs View Post
    Mind me asking, where are you from? Area wise.
    Central Scotland.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Central Scotland.
    Ah Thanks, live in a area which means the best places to ride are either Scottish border(not too bothered on traveling a little further or lake district, went to a 7staines track near Newcastleton was fun but heard the tracks Glentress was more fun, is it as good as it is made out to be?
    "The risk was calculated, but man, I'm bad at math"

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkehs View Post
    Heard the tracks Glentress was more fun, is it as good as it is made out to be?
    Yes, it is. I don't know what level you're at but I've done all the blue and a few of the red. Spookywood on the red is good but to be honest the blue is more fun than the other red routes. It's technical enough to keep you interested but flowing enough that you can get good speed up. Even the climbs are good fun.

    Most of all though is that fact that it's so well designed. I've been to a couple of other local trail parks and after seeing Glentress you realise where they have gone wrong. Poor visibility of the trail going into bends, turns that tighten halfway round, all sorts of little things that catch you out or spoil the flow. Whoever did Glentress totally nailed it! Just checking the forecast and it the rain stays off I'll be going there tomorrow :0)

    There is a free-ride park next to the Buzzard's Nest car park which has some big tables etc and even a nice green route for the kids. A lot of the trails are sunk in the trees so you're sheltered from the wind and rain and there is a big cafe at the foot of the hill. The place is just great!

  55. #55
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    I feel very fortunate that the trails I ride I NW lower Michigan are without many "intruders..." and the ones we do meet, are there for the same reason we are. It's a perfect World...
    2014 Nail Trail 29...

  56. #56
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    crazy story!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Yes, it is. I don't know what level you're at but I've done all the blue and a few of the red. Spookywood on the red is good but to be honest the blue is more fun than the other red routes. It's technical enough to keep you interested but flowing enough that you can get good speed up. Even the climbs are good fun.

    Most of all though is that fact that it's so well designed. I've been to a couple of other local trail parks and after seeing Glentress you realise where they have gone wrong. Poor visibility of the trail going into bends, turns that tighten halfway round, all sorts of little things that catch you out or spoil the flow. Whoever did Glentress totally nailed it! Just checking the forecast and it the rain stays off I'll be going there tomorrow :0)

    There is a free-ride park next to the Buzzard's Nest car park which has some big tables etc and even a nice green route for the kids. A lot of the trails are sunk in the trees so you're sheltered from the wind and rain and there is a big cafe at the foot of the hill. The place is just great!
    Good to hear such good things, been taking a look at a few videos pretty sure I could handle most of it atleast, though often easier said than done! Only been getting back into riding the past year but ride with a few experienced riders so I pick things up quite easy. I'll probably be going within the next few weeks.

    Thanks.
    "The risk was calculated, but man, I'm bad at math"

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