1. The most important thing about buying a new bike is to make sure it fits. The only way you'll know if the bike is right for you is to size up the bike and make sure that the bike's geometry matches your body's geometry. Ask questions and do some research.
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Thread: Next upgrade

  1. #1
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    Next upgrade

    I was thinking of an upgrade to wheels and disc brakes. I ended up to Mavic crossrides and Deore disc brakes. Actually for brakes I am more towards Deore but I can consider LX as well if there is a significant difference. What do you think?

  2. #2
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    I have crosslands and I do recomend them especialy if you want to run UST tubeless tires. As for disc brakes, I have heard that avid cable discs are very good, lightweight and low priced. I have hydralic maguras and they are the bomb but pricy.

    Why do you want discs so bad? Unless you ride in wet and mud I don't think they are a ton better than vee brakes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    Why do you want discs so bad? Unless you ride in wet and mud I don't think they are a ton better than vee brakes.
    I have seen you say this type of thing in several posts now. You are horribly incorrect.

    Whip up a top of the line Avid or an XT/XTR V-brake... Get the perfect spring tension for lever feel, install the best pads you can find. Do a PERFECT Gore-Tex cable install. Have a perfectly clean braking surface....

    Those are the types of things it will take to even come CLOSE to the functionality of a decent hydro disc brake. "Vees" do not even CLOSE to the performance level of disc brakes. If you ride slow and smooth all day long, then "vees" are simply fine... and in most cases your feet would probably be fine as well, but in ANY type of more serious riding than that, disc brakes outshine "vee" brakes in ALL aspects. The reduced force to apply them translates into more economical riding. Less wasted energy. Less force applied to use the brakes translates into better control of the bike at speed while braking. The modulation that a hydro disc offers allows much more control over the braking itself. Hands don't get tired as fast; arms less pump.

    Some people will forever go to bed with their V-brakes. That is fine, but in the end you will find that they ride V-brakes simply due to the type of riding they do, not because they work even remotely close to the efficiency or have the level of practicality of disc brakes.

    Disc brakes are indeed a "ton" better than "vee" brakes wet, mud, or dry.
    Last edited by DamoNNomaD; 05-11-2006 at 06:43 AM.

  4. #4
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    I have tried both and don't see much of a difference. Until your rims get wet and then there is no comparison. With vee brakes a good solid lever is very important ( I find XT to be the best). I used to run xt levers and avid vee brakes and I got plenty of stopping power and modulation. I now run Magura marta sl hydraulic disc's and I get similar stopping power and modulation even when my rims are muddy. That is my experience and my opinion so please don't call me "horribly incorrect". Even if you disagree there is no need for the horribly stuff. Yes discs are better but not tons better.

    The OP lives in Greece and I assume there is not a lot of mud holes and stream crossings in Greece. I could be wrong. So back to the OP: Why do you want disc brakes so bad? What are you looking to gain from this upgrade?

  5. #5
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    Also throw in the fact that mech's are not even as good as hydro. IMO

    The good thing about the V style is the horn sound they make to let other riders know your slowing down.
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  6. #6
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    I personally never seen the need for disc brakes, but then again, you have to take into account the locale and type of riding I'm doing. XC and singletrack in Michigan is gonna be different than DH or DJ in North Shore. Here, discs don't get you much of anything, except maybe looking like a total fred when you endo-face-plant cuz your discs are FAR more maintenance-intensive than the V brakes that came on the bike, and you decided to skip that one time.

    For the weight, complexity, and amount of maintenance (especially with hydraulic brakes), I've never seen the need to switch over. For this area, and the riding available, there's no need for either disc brakes or FS, but I don't go telling everyone I see on a dually how "horribly incorrect" they are, either. Maybe that's just me, tho.

    I've got to agree with Maida7's questions: Why are you so hot to go to discs and what are you planning to gain from the upgrade? If you can answer these questions, it might make your decision regarding disc brakes a touch easier.

    Ross

    P.S: DISCLAIMER - The preceding statements are the sole opinions of the poster, and in no way reflect any amount of correctness for anyone else, regardless of any knowledge the poster may (or certainly may not) posess. As one of my former instructors used to say "This is A way. It is not THE way."
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  7. #7
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    One thing I've not seen mentioned here is that Discs are much less prone to brake fade than Vees. I'm an XC guy and also spend alot of time on my hardtail with slicks doing road riding. I have a few hills I need to descend in my area, akin to something like Lombard street in SF. With my old Avid Single Digit 7s/various fancy pads from Avid, Shimano and Koolstop... I'd have major brake fade issues whenever I were on these roads. By the time I was at the bottom of these roads my brakes were cooked, glazed over and for the most part useless for stopping (though they made rad noises). I'm a former roadie and know how to take care of brake pads and no matter what technique I used it never helped. I also noticed the same issues on long singletrack descents.

    Oh and when I'd be riding in the rain...oh the fun that was with the Vees...a mix of wet rims AND brake fade....rad x12!

    I recently switched to Avid Mechanical discs (I kept the same Avid levers) and have not had the issue since on those streets, in the rain or out on dirt. Not to mention the Avid mechanicals are wonderful to setup and easy to maintain, much easier (for me) than Vees ever where (I hate aligning pads on the rims). They are heavy as piss compared to the Vees I own but their performance boost and added consistency are a much bigger benefit for me. I'm not that much of a weight weenie.

    Actually I found that my favorite brake setup is the Avid mechanical in front (again I know proper brake technique and am on very good terms with my front brake) and the Avid Vee in the rear. I like the power of the disc in front and the feel of the Vee in back.

    I have no experience with fluid brakes on a bike. I've been considering buying one Avid Juicy for the front to try out and see if they live up to the hype but am in no real hurry.

    My experience is that discs are much better. Maybe not more powerful but much more consistent with less worry in technical sections. However, it's been pointed out here that alot depends on your riding style. Rule of thumb I hear on here and from my riding buddies is;

    "lowend Vees are better than lowend Discs...but high end Vees aren't even close to high end Discs."

    Oh...and I know no one personally that has anything good to say about Shimano brakes (other than XTR discs/Vees and XT Vees) but definitely no good words for the low-end Shimano discs.....

    Avid Mecanicals are alot of bang for the bucks and I can't recommend them enough.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ur13
    I have no experience with fluid brakes on a bike. I've been considering buying one Avid Juicy for the front to try out and see if they live up to the hype but am in no real hurry.
    IMHO The big advantage of hydro is that you can't feel that gritty, nasty, old cable every time you squeeze the lever. Cables are at there peak the first day you instal them and the quality of the cable goes downhill from there. Hydro is super smooth and stays that way. Bleeding hydro is a bit%$ but once bleed properly, a hydro brake will need no maintenance at all untill you change pads. The exception is the post mount brakes. I find post mount brakes don't stay centered and need constant tweeking. All in all hydros just feel better.

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    So much ignorance in this thread. I have to wonder if any of you put more than a few miles on a bike a year.

    Riding A V-brake is great when that is ALL you need, but to say they come even CLOSE to the performance of a disc is HORRIBLY ABSURD.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    IMHO The big advantage of hydro is that you can't feel that gritty, nasty, old cable every time you squeeze the lever. Cables are at there peak the first day you instal them and the quality of the cable goes downhill from there. Hydro is super smooth and stays that way. Bleeding hydro is a bit%$ but once bleed properly, a hydro brake will need no maintenance at all untill you change pads. The exception is the post mount brakes. I find post mount brakes don't stay centered and need constant tweeking. All in all hydros just feel better.

    I've been riding Avid Flak Jackets for sometime, full housing from lever to brake system (for Vees and Discs)...I've never had any problem once you adjust for cable stretch...super smooth all the time.

    The modulation is what sells me on hydros and why I want to give them a try

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    So much ignorance in this thread. I have to wonder if any of you put more than a few miles on a bike a year.

    Riding A V-brake is great when that is ALL you need...
    Who's being ignorant now?

    Just admit that what works for you doesn't work for everyone else. Not everyone wants to put up with the complexity, weight or PRICE of disc brakes. Why should anyone have to put up with you bashing them because their equipment doesn't fit into your ultra-constricted idea of "worthy"? I go back to the golden rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU_Grad_121
    Who's being ignorant now?

    Just admit that what works for you doesn't work for everyone else. Not everyone wants to put up with the complexity, weight or PRICE of disc brakes. Why should anyone have to put up with you bashing them because their equipment doesn't fit into your ultra-constricted idea of "worthy"? I go back to the golden rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
    Why don't you pay attention????? I have stated that V-brakes are FINE if that is all you need, but to say that V-brakes perform even close to the performance of a disc brake disc is HORRIBLY ABSURD no matter what you happen to use.

    Please pay attention.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamoNNomaD
    Why don't you pay attention????? I have stated that V-brakes are FINE if that is all you need, but to say that V-brakes perform even close to the performance of a disc brake disc is HORRIBLY ABSURD no matter what you happen to use.

    Please pay attention.
    That's not very Zen Nomad of you! Why don't YOU pay attention! These are peoples opinions. Have some respect for others. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with you all the time. I suggest you get over it.

    I bet you think this post is about you. Don't you? Don't you?

  14. #14
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    But you did say "So much ignorance in this thread. I have to wonder if any of you put more than a few miles on a bike a year."...

    So what makes your **** not stink? Who made you Mr. ****ing-know-it-all. Dude, if you infer statements like that, you'd better be ready to bring it, otherwise sit down and shut the **** up.

    To your other point I agree, mostly...I just don't take kindly to some no-name know-it-all calling me ignorant for offering my personal experience on the issue at hand in of all places the "Beginner's" board.

    Not everyone is as all knowing and obviously as widely experienced as you.

  15. #15
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    Three bikes ago I went to disc, Magura Marta
    Two bikes ago I went to Gripshift, XO
    Now I have gripshift and disc on my current ride. I personally don't think there is anything better than XO shifters and hydrolic disc brakes. My opinion is that if V style brakes were better than disc then more production bikes would have them. Besides the disc's abilities the best reason to move to them it the bent wheel issue. Unless it is completely whack you can still get back while still having the use of your brakes.

    Damn ur13! I just saw what you put down.
    Don't let them get to like that. There are only a couple of poeple here that respond like damon.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsteele
    Three bikes ago I went to disc, Magura Marta
    Two bikes ago I went to Gripshift, XO
    Now I have gripshift and disc on my current ride. I personally don't think there is anything better than XO shifters and hydrolic disc brakes. My opinion is that if V style brakes were better than disc then more production bikes would have them. Besides the disc's abilities the best reason to move to them it the bent wheel issue. Unless it is completely whack you can still get back while still having the use of your brakes.

    Damn ur13! I just saw what you put down.
    Don't let them get to like that. There are only a couple of poeple here that respond like damon.
    I know, I've been around these boards for a longtime and generally people here are mellow and some are very well informed...and I have experience with trolls elsewhere on the web...but I get annoyed at seeing people slammed, here in the Beginner's forum of all places, for offering their personal experiences to help newbies by people who think their "opinion" is the only one that matters.

    To everyone else I apologize, to DamoNNomaD you can go **** yourself.

  17. #17
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    Well said
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsteele
    My opinion is that if V style brakes were better than disc then more production bikes would have them. Besides the disc's abilities the best reason to move to them it the bent wheel issue. Unless it is completely whack you can still get back while still having the use of your brakes.
    See, now in my experience, which has shaped MY OPINION (emphasis added for a certain poster), I've seen two riders on the trails bend their rotors (don't ask me how they pulled that off), and end up carrying their high-end, expertly specced rides out of the back country over their shoulders. Lucky for them these were really high end bikes that were light, huh?

    As for why so many production bikes are currently coming with disc brakes: because people are demanding it. Disc brakes are the new "hot thing" and if the majority of people want them (for whatever reason), the manufacturers are gonna put them on, they'd be stupid not to. Now if the majority of people were clammoring for V-brakes, they'd be on everything. That just brakes down to marketing, in my opinion. Do discs offer an advantage? Absolutely. Are they necessary on every ride? Not even close. I've been riding for 5 seasons with Vees and never once found myeslf wanting for stopping power. I've wished I'd applied the brakes earlier, but I'd have hit that tree with discs or Vees or whatever. It's gonna depend on your riding style and what you're comfortable with. Personally? I doubt I'll ever switch over on my current rig. If they come on my next bike, fine, but I truly see no need for discs in this area. Again, this is MY OPINION, and should not be confused with anything else.

    Ross
    "I don't wanna die without any scars. So come on, let's do it before I lose my nerve" - Tyler Durden (Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maida7
    I have tried both and don't see much of a difference. Until your rims get wet and then there is no comparison. With vee brakes a good solid lever is very important ( I find XT to be the best). I used to run xt levers and avid vee brakes and I got plenty of stopping power and modulation. I now run Magura marta sl hydraulic disc's and I get similar stopping power and modulation even when my rims are muddy. That is my experience and my opinion so please don't call me "horribly incorrect". Even if you disagree there is no need for the horribly stuff. Yes discs are better but not tons better.

    The OP lives in Greece and I assume there is not a lot of mud holes and stream crossings in Greece. I could be wrong. So back to the OP: Why do you want disc brakes so bad? What are you looking to gain from this upgrade?
    No, I don't want them so bad as you say. I am just curious if it worth it to upgade. But in the end I think I will stay with the Vees as I need to get wheels too and it will work out expensive. I might get better levers, like XT. Thanks for the answers.

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