1. The most important thing about buying a new bike is to make sure it fits. The only way you'll know if the bike is right for you is to size up the bike and make sure that the bike's geometry matches your body's geometry. Ask questions and do some research.
mtn. biking 101
2. If possible, try to find a shop that will let you demo the bike on real dirt. Five minutes in a parking lot won't cut it. You wouldn't buy a car without a real world test drive, and a bike should be no different.
3. Don't belive the hype. Just because your favorite rider or best friend rides a certain bike, that doesn't mean that's the best one for you. Have an open mind and be realistic about your needs and ability.
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    Chains are much more expensive than front derailleur. So $2500 for handlebars, stem, saddle, shifters, derailleurs, brakes and rotors, tires and tubes, maybe front derailleur, maybe seat post and clamp. Since he already has rims and a fork. That is a good deal? Then have to sell off the other parts. You could get the SRAM xo groupo brand new for $1500 without shopping around and don't need to sell anything.
    an xtr FD is way more expensive than an xtr chain. fortunately the op already has an FD.
    so we buy the sram group for $1500 and then your going to pay for wheels, tires, bars, seatpost, saddle etc. so before you know it, you are back at 2500 bucks and you don't have an extra frame and fork to show for it. yes selling off the parts is work, but if your trying to save money, this is the way to do it no?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    The bike I was referencing is here Save up to 60% off Titanium Mountain Bikes - 2011 Motobecane Fly Titanium

    Lets look at all the specs. Kindly tell me what is wrong with FSA K-light carbon cranks??? thats an upgrade from xtr in a lot of peoples books! ANd obviously if you have an FSA crank it's going to come with it's matching BB! and are you really going to complain about a kmc chain? lol give me a break! the brand of chain should be the least of your worries, its the cheapest part of the drivetrain!

    The bike comes with XTR Shifters, Front and Rear Deraileurs and an XT 11-36 cassette. Oh yeah by the way, this is all latest and greatest 10spd drivetrain, not previous generation 9 speed. now I know there is absolutely nothing wrong with 9speed and it is preferable to many but since the op seems to be interested in building up a high end machine, why wouldn't we want latest and greatest technology??
    Avid XO brakes and Ritchey WCS bars, stem, seatpost etc round out the bike. Thats a pretty high end build. Not the highest, we don't hve carbon bars, stem, etc but cmon, the guy said he was trying to build himself to save a few bucks. The first place you save in doing a build is by going with quality aluminum over carbon(half the time aluminum parts weight the same as their carbon counterparts)
    My apology, why would I expect you to even give an intelligence respond on the topic was beyond me. Let's not talk tech, clearly we'd be going back and forth between sour grapes syndrome and bunch of assumption based on your personal life.

    This collective education bits has taught you much already and you don't even have the appreciation for it. I guess we just have to agree to disagree, and I'll let you go get free education from someone else

    Go ahead I'll let you have the last word on the subject.

  3. #103
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    I googled the chain from your bike $77 and the front derailleur $65. He already has rims. You may need a different seat post anyway. And all of the parts would be SRAM xo. And I am not certain on an cut groupo price. So damn he doesn't have a frame to sell but his current bike would be sweet. So yeah he would still have to buy handlebars, tires, and stem and a few little things but he has probably 500 dollars to do that with after selling the other stuff. And this bike would be way more awesome than the bikes direct bike. And that is without shopping around. I am sure you could find it cheaper.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    My apology, why would I expect you to even give an intelligence respond on the topic was beyond me. Let's not talk tech, clearly we'd be going back and forth between sour grapes syndrome and bunch of assumption based on your personal life.

    This collective education bits has taught you much already and you don't even have the appreciation for it. I guess we just have to agree to disagree, and I'll let you go get free education from someone else
    I've got no problem with agreeing to disagree but it also wouldn't hurt you to simply say "your right" rather than make continued smart ass remarks. I;ve constantly asked questions that have gone unanswered all the while I"ve provided concrete examples to back up my arguments. I guess I didn't go to fancy enough schools; in my school that was how we were taught to debate. With facts. This thread has turned more into a presedential debate! I am not a cycling noob, I know PLENTY about road and MTB drivetrains. I've got numerous road bikes and I've got a touring bike with a complete MTB drivetrain. What I'm a noob on is the suspension stuff and the actual serious offroad riding skills. I welcome the opportunity to learn about that stuff but as I mentioned, I'm not going to sit back and allow myself to be insulted for presenting factual data. I'm quite sure you want the op to have a successful build and ride his bike for years to come, hopefully we can at least agree on that!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    I googled the chain from your bike $77 and the front derailleur $65. He already has rims. You may need a different seat post anyway. And all of the parts would be SRAM xo. And I am not certain on an cut groupo price. So damn he doesn't have a frame to sell but his current bike would be sweet. So yeah he would still have to buy handlebars, tires, and stem and a few little things but he has probably 500 dollars to do that with after selling the other stuff. And this bike would be way more awesome than the bikes direct bike. And that is without shopping around. I am sure you could find it cheaper.
    I've seen XTR chains for 45 bucks but the xtr FD's are usually at least 60 but yeah they are pretty close. the FD and chain are the smallest ticket items in the drivetrain. He mentioned getting spinergy wheels, didnt say that he already had them so I assume that is another purchase. I looked up those wheels, there is nothing too special about them, probably a lateral move at best from the bd wheels. By the way, there is another Bikesdirect bike that is SRAM XO. I was using XTR as an example but look at this one. IT's only 2100 because it's alloy frame not titanium.
    Mountain Bikes - MTB - Motobecane Fantom Team SRAM XO 2x10 20 Speed 2011

    so he could get all SRAM XO except the crank (the fsa is a better crank anyways) and still have the sweet bike that you are mentioning, then sell the frame and fork and the only little part he would have to buy is a seatpost because it's not going to fit. In your scenario he spends about $1500 and gets SRAM XO Groupset including the brakes but has no wheels. The wheels he is looking at are a $500 wheelset and anything custom built new for his weight (240lbs) is gonna cost around that unless he decides to build them himself which is totally doable.
    so he needs to still spend the following
    Wheels $500
    Ritchey WCS alloy seatpost 75
    Ritchey WCS alloy 4axis stem $75
    Ritchey WCS Handlebar $75
    Ritchey Streem Saddle $75
    When all is said and done, he is probably spending about 2300 bucks.

    In my scenario he spends $2100 + $75 for a proper sized seat post and gets SRAM XO shiters and RD, FSA Crank that is as good if not better than SRAM and a set of wheels with tires and all of the little things except a seatpost. The trade off is that he does get a lesser level of brakes but in my scenario he has a bike that can be ridden! in yours his bike is still in the stand waiting for a set of wheels and tires. He will then have a frame, Reba Fork, headset, front derailleur and seatpost that he can sell off. If he doesn't want a long drawn out hassle of getting that stuff sold he could advertise it all for $500 and i'm sure it would sell in a day. 1 week max. If he's willing to wait, he may get a lot more. So in my scenario he is riding his bike for $1675 with high end parts. With the $625 he has saved he can upgrade the brakes if he finds they aren't to his liking and he can also consider upgrading other bits to really high end finishes i.e. carbon bars.

    Lets not forget that if he doesn't sell off the frame he has paid the same amount of money but now he's got a few parts. he might wreck his carbon frame 6 months down the road and need somthign to ride while he waits for a warranty repair. he's got a frame to throw it all on. He might decide that he loves his full suspension high end bike but wants a hard tail for another purpose, he's now got a chassis to build off of. This is one of the ways that we all start amassing our bike stuff and parts bins.

    Never underestimate the cost of those "little things" that was the first thing I learned when building my first bike up. Thought I had everything good to go and then it was like "oh yeah, I need a couple of tubes $10 oops forgot pedals $25 oh dammit, i bought tubes but forgot rim tape $10, damn I got the shifters but forgot the cable housing $10, oh yeah I bought the saddle but what about the post and the clamp $30. I was doing a budget build and suddenly I was adding on another $100 of little things. Now start doing it with high end stuff and your costs go through the roof. I realize that my scenario isn't the simplest; but if your trying to learn how to work on bikes and you are trying to save a little money in the process while builiding high end, its one of the only ways to go. His other option is to source all used parts. I have no problem buying used road bike parts with some limits, but I'd be a bit more wary buying used MTB parts due to the amount of abuse they potentially get subjected to.

  6. #106
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    I would have to shop around more to make a better comparison but that setup seems to make a little more sense if that was the way you wanted to go. I don't know anything about the rims either but from the looks of them and if OP is a Clydesdale I would research their durability.

  7. #107
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    nothing wrong at all with shopping around. If you are willing to build from used parts and not build quite as high end, you can build up a very solid ride for short money using used and take off parts. Below is a summary of the build i'm doing now. I'm under $1000 and while I definately need to replace the fork on this, it's a solid build with pretty high end componentry for the riding i'm doing and durable for my size (250lbs)

    diamondback trace alu frame, suntour xct v2 crank, nvx susp fork, headset, stem $150 brand new (bike was obviously not ridden, parts stripped off immediately for another bike. I plan to sell the crank to recoup $30-40)
    slx m660 triple crank brand new $140 off craigslist
    slx m660 shifters brand new (may be takeoffs from new bike) $57
    xt m781 fd brand new $37 from nashbar
    xt m780 sgs rd used one season from mtbr classifieds $40 (i have a deal in place to get a brand new xtr for $100, i'm considering it)
    xtr chain lightly used $25 from craigslist
    avid elixir 5 hydraulic brakes brand new take offs from ebay, rotors not included $129
    used velo saddle $10 from craigslist
    wtb laser tcs trail 29" wheelset $236 brand new from chainlove
    sram pg-1050 10-speed cassette $43 brand new from nashbar
    handlebar and grips brand new $20 from nashbar
    wellgo pedals brand new free (came with my new road bike purchase last year)
    brake rotors free (lbs mechanic friend hookup)
    185mm brake avid g3 cleansweep rotor (upgrade from freebie 160mm) $10craigslist
    shift housing free (lbs mechanic friend hookup)
    seatpost free (had one in my parts bin from old project)
    seatpost clamp free (lbs mechanic friend hookup)
    geax mezcal tnt tubeless compatible 29 x 2.1 tires $60 from chainlove

    Total spent $957

    I'm not knocking the op, if you've got the money to go big with your first build, great. I'm shooting for a combo of solid entry level performance with the understanding that as rider I have a lot to learn about what style of riding i'm going to like and gravitate for. I don't want to spend $3000 on a xc bike only to find out that I really want a bad ass downhill bike. Likewise, I don't want a total entry level $400 bike that can't accelerate or has parts that are flat out going to break under my weight. I think my build hits a nice sweet spot. I oculd have bought something similar but I enjoy the build process and the feeling of knowing that what I'm riding is my creation

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    I've got no problem with agreeing to disagree but it also wouldn't hurt you to simply say "your right" rather than make continued smart ass remarks. I;ve constantly asked questions that have gone unanswered all the while I"ve provided concrete examples to back up my arguments. I guess I didn't go to fancy enough schools; in my school that was how we were taught to debate. With facts. This thread has turned more into a presedential debate! I am not a cycling noob, I know PLENTY about road and MTB drivetrains. I've got numerous road bikes and I've got a touring bike with a complete MTB drivetrain. What I'm a noob on is the suspension stuff and the actual serious offroad riding skills. I welcome the opportunity to learn about that stuff but as I mentioned, I'm not going to sit back and allow myself to be insulted for presenting factual data. I'm quite sure you want the op to have a successful build and ride his bike for years to come, hopefully we can at least agree on that!
    You are kidding right? Mimi's first respond to you was yes it can be done but not ideal, what more do you want, a press conference?

    What questions have you ask and not answer already. You have been passing your opinion as concrete examples and facts. Oh need me to point it out?

    Don't need bike stand to build a bike, is that the fact for all or just convenient for some who does not have one.

    Torque wrench are for inexperienced dummies, nuff said.

    Carbon fiber is so strong you don't need a torque wrench, the reason why manufacture put the torque spec for their parts is not because people don't tighten enough, it people over-tighten to the point that it would damage parts.

    Buy a bd bike and swap parts would be cheaper? At best is only for you and a few inexperienced dummies I guess, especially if one wants a 2x10 xtr.

    Your blabbing about the bd parts list trying to make sense of the Fact that the bike was advertised as "shimano dynasys 2x10 xtr but does not
    Come with the xtr cranks.

    Is that the fact that Fsa k-light carbon crank an upgrade from xtr? Shimano probably spent more on drivetrain r&d than Fsa make in sales a year, the fact is why bother advertising dynasys xtr, then put another brand crankset "upgrade".

    Flip-flop, first it was do it get proper tools its difficult, then it's so easy no stand needed, then it's not a good idea to do it cause you can eff' up the parts.

    Am I the only one who see this?

  9. #109
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    Mojo: absolutely not lost on me I just gave up. And rims are usually a huge investment and difficult to sell due to everyone wanting certain rims. So why would you buy a bike with mediocre rims just to have to get others. The lack of usable parts from the bd bike is why I would find it suspect that you would save a bunch of money over building a bike the way you want it. Once again if you are going to just use the parts that are provided for you why not buy a complete stumpjumper? And not have to deal with speculating how much you can get for the parts you sell. Isn't the reason to build a bike to customize it to your liking since it is well established you don't save much money. I also recommend setting it up with a true UST tubeless setting since you are building it from scratch and get to choose your parts but that again is just a personal preference.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    Mojo: absolutely not lost on me I just gave up. And rims are usually a huge investment and difficult to sell due to everyone wanting certain rims. So why would you buy a bike with mediocre rims just to have to get others. The lack of usable parts from the bd bike is why I would find it suspect that you would save a bunch of money over building a bike the way you want it. Once again if you are going to just use the parts that are provided for you why not buy a complete stumpjumper? And not have to deal with speculating how much you can get for the parts you sell. Isn't the reason to build a bike to customize it to your liking since it is well established you don't save much money. I also recommend setting it up with a true UST tubeless setting since you are building it from scratch and get to choose your parts but that again is just a personal preference.
    Do you have any idea what the MSRP was on the complete version of the op's frame? It's well over 5k.

    Why do you "find it suspect" that you can save by taking parts from the bikes direct bike? Did I not lay down some pretty concrete numbers? What is this lack of usable parts of which you speak? in my scenario the bulk of the bikes direct parts are useable. And I agree with you on Wheels (btw, they are wheels we are talking about, not simply Rims) it is an investment and a lot of personal preference. But every avid cyclist I know, no matter what discipline of cycling has at least 2 sets of wheels, sometimes more. A lot of people like to keep the cheapo wheels as "training wheels" and lets be honest here, what is the one area that almost ALL bike companies skimp on when putting together a bike? It's the wheels. So even if you buy a high end bike, be prepared to upgrade those right off the bat.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo28246 View Post
    You are kidding right? Mimi's first respond to you was yes it can be done but not ideal, what more do you want, a press conference?

    What questions have you ask and not answer already. You have been passing your opinion as concrete examples and facts. Oh need me to point it out?

    Don't need bike stand to build a bike, is that the fact for all or just convenient for some who does not have one.

    Torque wrench are for inexperienced dummies, nuff said.

    Carbon fiber is so strong you don't need a torque wrench, the reason why manufacture put the torque spec for their parts is not because people don't tighten enough, it people over-tighten to the point that it would damage parts.

    Buy a bd bike and swap parts would be cheaper? At best is only for you and a few inexperienced dummies I guess, especially if one wants a 2x10 xtr.

    Your blabbing about the bd parts list trying to make sense of the Fact that the bike was advertised as "shimano dynasys 2x10 xtr but does not
    Come with the xtr cranks.

    Is that the fact that Fsa k-light carbon crank an upgrade from xtr? Shimano probably spent more on drivetrain r&d than Fsa make in sales a year, the fact is why bother advertising dynasys xtr, then put another brand crankset "upgrade".

    Flip-flop, first it was do it get proper tools its difficult, then it's so easy no stand needed, then it's not a good idea to do it cause you can eff' up the parts.

    Am I the only one who see this?
    Who are you his body guard? Why are you even butting in and voicing your thoughts on this? He and I handled it, it's squashed. We agree to disagree.

    As for bikes direct, what do you want from them? they have a simple business model. They give a brief description of the bike. yeah it will say 2x10 xtr or 3x10 XO or whatever the case may be. That is a general description. Then you click on the bike and you can get a full and complete spec list. You act as if they are trying to falsely advertise. Just because Shimano spends a buttload more money doesn't automatically mean their cranks are any better than FSA. I'm not privvy to the business dealings between bikes direct and their suppliers. perhaps shimano isn't willing to cut them as good a deal on the cranks as FSA does. Who knows. The bottom line is they have a very good offering at a very attractive price. They certainly aren't for everybody.

    I'm in the fitness and golf biz. I routinely play with high level CEO's who have the worst fitting clubs but they would never consider going to component or off brand clubs because as big shots, they want to be seen with the latest and greatest Taylor Made clubs in their bags even if they would actually score better with the no name clubs. I see the same things in the bike world all the time. Blowing by my friend on his $6000 Madone with Reynolds tubulars cracks me up as I do it on my $1900 Motobecane with no name chinese carbon tubulars.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Do you have any idea what the MSRP was on the complete version of the op's frame? It's well over 5k.

    Why do you "find it suspect" that you can save by taking parts from the bikes direct bike? Did I not lay down some pretty concrete numbers? What is this lack of usable parts of which you speak? in my scenario the bulk of the bikes direct parts are useable. And I agree with you on Wheels (btw, they are wheels we are talking about, not simply Rims) it is an investment and a lot of personal preference. But every avid cyclist I know, no matter what discipline of cycling has at least 2 sets of wheels, sometimes more. A lot of people like to keep the cheapo wheels as "training wheels" and lets be honest here, what is the one area that almost ALL bike companies skimp on when putting together a bike? It's the wheels. So even if you buy a high end bike, be prepared to upgrade those right off the bat.
    That's why many don't buy highend complete bike. I build them up, and the same reason why many highend bikes does not come with pedals. None of my bikes were bought as a complete bikes, including road and tri bikes.

    Here we go again with your concrete example about saving money on take off parts on bd's bike part swap, if I want XTR, I want xtr components not a few and the rest with "upgrade as in I think it's better than XTR"

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo28246 View Post
    That's why many don't buy highend complete bike. I build them up, and the same reason why many highend bikes does not come with pedals. None of my bikes were bought as a complete bikes, including road and tri bikes.

    Here we go again with your concrete example about saving money on take off parts on bd's bike part swap, if I want XTR, I want xtr components not a few and the rest with "upgrade as in I think it's better than XTR"
    Thats fine if that is what you want. I would advise you differently. The OP is new to the game and is looking to save a few dollars yet still have a nice bike. I have the utmost confidence that my scenario does that. If you were to shop around and look for the best prices on all the things that come on the bike I used as an example you would most certainly end up spending more buying all the items piecemeal. Sorry if I came off as sounding like my way is the only way. Wasn't my intent. I just happen to believe that for someone that doesn't have a bike at all that my idea is the best combination of learning to build, getting it done expeditiously and saving a few dollars in the process.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Thats fine if that is what you want. I would advise you differently. The OP is new to the game and is looking to save a few dollars yet still have a nice bike. I have the utmost confidence that my scenario does that. If you were to shop around and look for the best prices on all the things that come on the bike I used as an example you would most certainly end up spending more buying all the items piecemeal. Sorry if I came off as sounding like my way is the only way. Wasn't my intent. I just happen to believe that for someone that doesn't have a bike at all that my idea is the best combination of learning to build, getting it done expeditiously and saving a few dollars in the process.
    I thought you said you were leaving this conversation and that you'd said all that needed to be said?

    Like a Pit Bull, you've latched on to saving money from the very first post and won't let it go. The op clarified what he meant. Let me simplify it for you:

    1. It's his first bike.
    2. He's not on a budget but also doesn't want to overspend.
    3. He wants to spec great (not good, great) components for the bike.
    4. He wants to build the bike up for himself and take some pride in ownership.
    5. He's asked this forum for help in accomplishing 1-4.

    You've offered advice that not everyone agrees with. Your approach adds a degree of complexity and is kind of a pita, even for experienced cyclists. It may work for some, but certainly not all. It saves money but also doesn't result in accomplishing 100% of 1-4.

    Rather than accepting that not everyone agrees with your advice, you're acting butt hurt and insisting that your approach is the best approach because it's the one that works for you, so obviously it is the best for everyone here.

    Another piece of knowledge for you: there are a lot of people here that disagree with my advice. Some times, my advice sucks or is flat out wrong, despite my best intentions. And when that happens, I apologize and own up to my sucky suggestion.

    There are a lot of really knowledgable mountain bikers in the Beginner's Forum. For the most part, they have 1 purpose for being here: provide a knowledge base for entry level mountain bikers and to encourage them to get down with the sickness. You have to have some pretty thick skin and come in with proper advice for beginners more often than not. You'll get called on your opinion when it's wrong or if someone doesn't agree with you.

    There are very few "best" answers. The best component? The best approach to a bike build? The best way to purchase parts? The best bike? All subjective. So when you provide your opinion as a fact, you're going to get called on it. 100% of the time. And should you become defensive and argumentative when you're called on it, people will not only continue to call you on it, but they also won't trust your advice, whether it's proper or not.

    Welcome. Stick around. Offer advice. But check your cycling ego at the door because in here, it's going to get bruised.


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  15. #115
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    The best thing the OP could do for his bike build is to leave this thread. Hehe

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    I am getting dizzy! When will this merry-go-round stop? Nobody knows!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post

    As for bikes direct, what do you want from them? they have a simple business model. They give a brief description of the bike. yeah it will say 2x10 xtr or 3x10 XO or whatever the case may be. That is a general description. Then you click on the bike and you can get a full and complete spec list. You act as if they are trying to falsely advertise. Just because Shimano spends a buttload more money doesn't automatically mean their cranks are any better than FSA. I'm not privvy to the business dealings between bikes direct and their suppliers. perhaps shimano isn't willing to cut them as good a deal on the cranks as FSA does. Who knows. The bottom line is they have a very good offering at a very attractive price. They certainly aren't for everybody.

    I'm in the fitness and golf biz. I routinely play with high level CEO's who have the worst fitting clubs but they would never consider going to component or off brand clubs because as big shots, they want to be seen with the latest and greatest Taylor Made clubs in their bags even if they would actually score better with the no name clubs. I see the same things in the bike world all the time. Blowing by my friend on his $6000 Madone with Reynolds tubulars cracks me up as I do it on my $1900 Motobecane with no name chinese carbon tubulars.

    Ken he's going to call you my bodyguard now Well said btw.

    Bike direct mislead the customers, I don't have any problem with BD as long as they stay in their forum, once the gospel spread in of all the place, beginner's corner something need to be said. If they are so great why keep comparing to the big brands at much higher retail, especially when it clearly not the same frame performance and spec. XTR is not better than FSA, show me the prove, cause the prove I've got is they shift better and smoother, look it up bike mag, mba, mbuk, etc. If you say they are not lighter may be, I'll bite.

    When they compare their ti HT to Seven or Moots, can you tell me it's BD is as good, yeah, you can't only few can because no one is going to check and compare. I can tell, not only the product but the buying experience. Bottom line, it is what it is, you are getting the bike at the value of price listed not more, get your calculator out and you'll see. Boy for someone who's stingy you are easily doops.

    I'm glad you brought up golf, my forte. Callaway/TM knock offs look just like the real thing why they perform so poorly. When you play rounds of golf with the high CEO is that twilight and on the municipal course? People have their way of spending their hard earn money, who are you to judge the way do spend or what, how and why? They are not spending your money or mine.

    Spare me the pathetic rhetoric, I ride cheapo bike and still beat my friends who ride a $6000 bike, he beats you repeatedly by making more money every paycheck, have you ever thought of that. I'm a scratched, I'd play any mismatch golf clubs with anyone on any course, well except the one with the old raggy clubs and bag with brand new tacky grips

    I saved a boat load of money buying Shimano's components on my bikes. Since I travel to Asia regularly, I just find my hook up and buy there. I put the brand new XT groupo on my bike a many weeks before Jensen USA started stocking them and I paid less than half price for it. I'm not the only one who does this btw. But that's not practical for op, or the direction he's heading.

    That said I still buy from my lbs because I like them, they treat their customer very well, and I want them to be around a long time. Not everyone is a nickle'n'dime type like you, I shop for good deal but they are not the only thing I shop.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    I am getting dizzy! When will this merry-go-round stop? Nobody knows!
    I don't know... they still seem to be arguing about something on the interwebz....


  19. #119
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    Oh and the basic stumpjumper MSRP is 4g not well over 5g.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    Oh and the basic stumpjumper MSRP is 4g not well over 5g.
    The basic cf stump jumper is only $4k? Sweet. I'll take two.


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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    I have decided on picking up an xl 2009 stumpjumper pro carbon frame.... it comes with s120 forks
    BikePedia - 2009 specialized Stumpjumper FSR Pro Carbon Complete Bicycle


    Bicycle Type Mountain bike, front & rear suspension
    MSRP (new) $5,500.00


    Next question.

  22. #122
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    My responses to you below in bold
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo28246 View Post
    Ken he's going to call you my bodyguard now Well said btw.

    Bike direct mislead the customers,How so? They state what the full specs and geometry are on each one of their bikes. The advertised price is the price, inclusive of shipping and no sales tax in 49 states. Very straightforward. Onus is certainly on the consumer to be versed in bike components and assembly or be willing to pay for someone to assemble I don't have any problem with BD as long as they stay in their forum, once the gospel spread in of all the place, beginner's corner something need to be said. If they are so great why keep comparing to the big brands at much higher retail, especially when it clearly not the same frame performance and spec. Arguing about frame performance is certainly pretty subjective. In terms of spec, many would argue that 6000 and 7000 series aluminum are the same. in some cases a company like Kinesis is making their frames and they also make frames for the big name companies. But I will say that just because the same company is manufacturing doesn't mean it's being made to the same specs. However, we aren't even discussing using the frame off of this bike so its not really worth of discussion XTR is not better than FSA, show me the prove, cause the prove I've got is they shift better and smoother, look it up bike mag, mba, mbuk, etc. If you say they are not lighter may be, I'll bite. I think you mean to say that FSA is not better than XTR. Perhaps it isn't but it's still a very good crankset, certainly better than a standard Deore, alivio, etc.

    When they compare their ti HT to Seven or Moots, can you tell me it's BD is as good, yeah, you can't only few can because no one is going to check and compare. Again, the op already has a frame, this discussion has nothing to do with the frame not sure why you are bringin it up I can tell, not only the product but the buying experience. Bottom line, it is what it is, you are getting the bike at the value of price listed not more, get your calculator out and you'll see. Bike shops have to pay quality mechanics to assemble bikes. Big name companies pay for advertising in print publications, team sponsorships, even sponsorships. Lots of overhead that gets passed on to consumer. Bikes direct doesn't have this, simple no frills way of purchasing. again, its not for everyone, but it's how they keep cost down, by lowering amount of service. ITs certainly not for everybody, some people are very reliant on the customer service experience a LBS provides Boy for someone who's stingy you are easily doops.

    I'm glad you brought up golf, my forte. Callaway/TM knock offs look just like the real thing why they perform so poorly. I'm not talking about knock offs, I'm talking about component club heads. There is a huge difference between knock off counterfits and high quality components put out by companies like Alpha and Geek Golf. When you play rounds of golf with the high CEO is that twilight and on the municipal course? I play in a lot of my clients corporate outings and charity events but thank you for the ribbing People have their way of spending their hard earn money, who are you to judge the way do spend or what, how and why? I'm not judging them, I'm telling you what they have actually told me, they feel the need to keep up appearances. These are vain people, it's one reason they hire me for personal training services. They are not spending your money or mine.

    Spare me the pathetic rhetoric, I ride cheapo bike and still beat my friends who ride a $6000 bike, he beats you repeatedly by making more money every paycheck, have you ever thought of that. lol, he doesn't make more money than me, he's 28 years old and still lives at home with his momma! lol I'm a scratched, I'd play any mismatch golf clubs with anyone on any course, well except the one with the old raggy clubs and bag with brand new tacky grips agreed, it's not the bike it's the engine and it's not the golf club, it's the person swinging it. I'm a 4 hcap, not quite as good as you but shoot my share of rounds in the 70's. I'm probably going to outplay a 15hcap no matter what clubs you give me.

    I saved a boat load of money buying Shimano's components on my bikes. Since I travel to Asia regularly, I just find my hook up and buy there. I put the brand new XT groupo on my bike a many weeks before Jensen USA started stocking them and I paid less than half price for it. I'm not the only one who does this btw. But that's not practical for op, or the direction he's heading. awesome that you have that hookup, but obviously no use to the op unless your offering to bring him back some stuff!

    That said I still buy from my lbs because I like them, they treat their customer very well, and I want them to be around a long time. Not everyone is a nickle'n'dime type like you, I shop for good deal but they are not the only thing I shop. Rupert Murdoch once said, cost is what you pay, value is what you get. LBS in NYC don't offer a whole lot of value. for one, retail storefronts are expensive so they are all small and they barely have room to carry bikes, let alone carry accessories. 15 years ago if a shop didn't have something in stock, it made sense to ask them to order it for you but in this day and age of the internet, its plenty easy to source most things yourself. I'm not a nickel and dimer but being self employed I have the time to do this stuff myself and I enjoy doing it so it makes no sense to overpay to have someone else do it

  23. #123
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    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bik...rfsrcompcarbon

    Fsr carbon. Msrp 4100. You are welcome. Of course you can find a more expensive bike.

  24. #124
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    Rupert Murdoch once said, cost is what you pay, value is what you get.
    You quoted Rupert Murdoch? Really?

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    Specialized Bicycle Components

    Fsr carbon. Msrp 4100. You are welcome. Of course you can find a more expensive bike.
    See, this is PRECISELY the problem I have with you. You can't form a basic proper argument. I quoted the op. He stated he had a Stumpjumper Carbon Pro 2009. He is obviously trying to build it to similar spec as the original bike. You tell me I'm wrong in my price quote by showing me a DIFFERENT bike? Really? Did you even read the component spec on the bike you quoted???? We are over here arguing about the cost of an XT/XTR or XO level build and you bring up a SLX and X7 level bike as comparison?????? Give me a ****ing break.

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