• 11-25-2012
    MadScientist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Oh wow, this thread is a complete mess. Where to start... don't order parts or frames before checking to make sure that is what you want. Post here before you order the parts. The frame may be too big or it may fit you great. Those size bars should be fine, especially since you already purchased them. I ride with bars that wide.

    For all of you new people. Mimi has very valid points. You can put a bike together without a stand and tune cables, but a bike stand makes life a lot easier. The OP can hang two hooks in the ceiling of his garage or whatever, but a brick on a 5 gallon bucket. Really? I would not want to set a frame worth 2k on that and work on it. That is ghetto.

    Yea I am most definitely going to get a decent 360 swivel bicycle stand. I found some good ones for around $120 I am interested in.....
  • 11-25-2012
    mimi1885
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    T I had a few questions about brakes and gear sets and shifters. .. what is a good brake set up? Avid juicy ultimate carbon? I see the newer bikes run avid xo? Im not sure? I have a 9 speed sram xo rear derailleur and it is a long cage? A friend sold it to me for $30.... i would need 9 speed sram shifters for this correct? this should work right? Sorry for all the questions....

    I'd suggest the shimano hydro brake. The new XT are very nice, but you can get much better deal with the older model which is still awesome. Juicy ultimate is not really that good, many(myself included) have issues with howling and vibration, the newer elixir cr was not better either, it came with my blur LTc.

    SRAM xo are very nice they are 1:1 ratio vs shimano 2:1 rear shifting of course, the front are the same 1:1. Yes you'd need SRAM shifter, take your pick trigger or Gripshift.

    What else do you plan to buy, next set of question should be fun wheels, forks, tires. Save some fund for a dropper post they are added fun for trail riding. What is your seatpost diameter 30.9 or 31.6?
  • 11-25-2012
    MadScientist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    I'd suggest the shimano hydro brake. The new XT are very nice, but you can get much better deal with the older model which is still awesome. Juicy ultimate is not really that good, many(myself included) have issues with howling and vibration, the newer elixir cr was not better either, it came with my blur LTc.

    SRAM xo are very nice they are 1:1 ratio vs shimano 2:1 rear shifting of course, the front are the same 1:1. Yes you'd need SRAM shifter, take your pick trigger or Gripshift.

    What else do you plan to buy, next set of question should be fun wheels, forks, tires. Save some fund for a dropper post they are added fun for trail riding. What is your seatpost diameter 30.9 or 31.6?

    Seat post diameter is 30.9..... I plan on running spinergy xyclone wheelset.....
  • 11-25-2012
    DavyRay
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    Thanks again everyone.... I just figured the bars I purchased would be adequate for the situation... the bars are 640mm long... 31.8mm clamp.... 6 degree up sweep... and 8 degree back sweep.... low rise.... I had a few questions about brakes and gear sets and shifters. .. what is a good brake set up? Avid juicy ultimate carbon? I see the newer bikes run avid xo? Im not sure? I have a 9 speed sram xo rear derailleur and it is a long cage? A friend sold it to me for $30.... i would need 9 speed sram shifters for this correct? this should work right? Sorry for all the questions....

    There is a sticky thread in the Drivetrain forum about which derailleur with which shifter. The Brakes forum has lots of good information about which brakes various people are having problems with. The long cage is usually safe for most MTB uses. Some people adjust their gear choices so they can use a medium cage and shorten the chain some. Not me.

    Exact match shifters are certainly the best choice. Are you going to run a front derailleur as well?
  • 11-25-2012
    njoypow
    Dam I fell asleep and people went bonks. Thanks fer backin me up cpfitness...

    And thanks for the negative points mimi1885.... you shud be proud of how awesome you are AND how many posts those little fingers can push out.
  • 11-25-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    OP, yes if you have the cash buy a repair stand. They are a great addition and you will use it forever! That being said, is a repair stand an absolute necessity? NO! Will it make life easier? Yes, especially when you get to dialing in your drive train. But I am sure many of you out there remember the days of just flipping your bike over on its seat and handlebars and working on it from there. Not ideal, but you can get the job done. OP, most of all, however you end up doing this build, have fun! You will no doubt be frustrated at times, but bikes aren't rocket science. Enjoy!
  • 11-25-2012
    Ken in KC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    you are such an unknolwedgeable person it's disgusting! lol, I didn't know I needed to make a youtube video of me sliding a seatpost into a tube and locking it down with a clamp. or putting my wheels on and shutting the quickreleases. WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH DO YOU NEED A STAND TO BUILD A BIKE? explain the role that a stand plays in building a bike? I wonder if you've even ever built a bike with the answers you are giving, they are so ridiculous. And the fact that it's carbon is irrelevant. people act like carbon magically implodes during assembly without a torque wrench. torque wrenches are for inexperienced dummies. Have you ever seen someone use a torque wrench to put lugnuts on a car wheel? technically the instructions call for it, but people that have experience and know what they are doing don't need to do it.

    Wow. So much anger. Building a bike up with a stand is easier than without a stand. It's a lot easier to face a head tube and install a headset when a frame is in a stand. It's also a lot easier to face a BB shell.

    Speaking of unknowledgeable, your instructions on installing a bb are off a little bit. You didn't cover press fitting.

    Your torque wrench analogy is a bit off too. First, any pro wrench (auto, bike, motorcycle, etc) will have a torque wrench in their toolbox.

    Second, your example of lug nuts is flat out wrong. A mechanic absolutely uses the proper torque when installing lug nuts. You're likely too ignorant to realize that they install them w an impact wrench. And the impact wrench has a specific torque setting on it.

    The OP is spending a lot of money to build up a sweet bike. Money doesn't appear to be a limiter. So buying a nice stand, while not required will make the build easier and will be used whenever he's wrenching on his bike.

    Take it easy, Francis.


    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ken in KC View Post
    Wow. So much anger. Building a bike up with a stand is easier than without a stand. It's a lot easier to face a head tube and install a headset when a frame is in a stand. It's also a lot easier to face a BB shell.

    Speaking of unknowledgeable, your instructions on installing a bb are off a little bit. You didn't cover press fitting.

    Your torque wrench analogy is a bit off too. First, any pro wrench (auto, bike, motorcycle, etc) will have a torque wrench in their toolbox.

    Second, your example of lug nuts is flat out wrong. A mechanic absolutely uses the proper torque when installing lug nuts. You're likely too ignorant to realize that they install them w an impact wrench. And the impact wrench has a specific torque setting on it.

    The OP is spending a lot of money to build up a sweet bike. Money doesn't appear to be a limiter. So buying a nice stand, while not required will make the build easier and will be used whenever he's wrenching on his bike.

    Take it easy, Francis.


    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.

    Not anger at all, just passion and EMPHASIS. With the written word its difficult to always communicat the feel of what you are saying like what we can do in the spoken word so I use some caps from time to time. My dad was a mechanic, I was using impact wrenches when I was 5 years old. I can also tell you that with all of the different wheel types that the average shop isn't taking time to read manf specs and adjusting impact wrenches. it just aint happening. My dad had a SHITLOAD of torque wrenches in his toolbox. There were certain applications they would definately get used for but for run of the mill stuff they didn't come out of the box. Sorry, but I'm experienced, I don't need a torque wrench to install most parts on my bike though I may use it simply because one of my tool kits has a convenient set of hex bits to use with it.
    As for money being a limiter, the op did state that he was trying to save a few dollars (to which we all informed him that building himself was NOT the way to do so) but If someone was trying to save money suggesting that they NEED to buy a stand is flat out silly!! An el cheap stand is probably still $50-75. The most difficult things to install for the inexperienced would be cranks and headsets, things that a LBS would charge $10-15 to do. IF you are looking to save money, have the shop install those, then put your wheelset on your bike and lean it up against something and bolt on the rest of your parts, it's really quite simple. I can't believe that this is even being debated!!!!!
  • 11-25-2012
    Ken in KC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Not anger at all, just passion and EMPHASIS. With the written word its difficult to always communicat the feel of what you are saying like what we can do in the spoken word so I use some caps from time to time. My dad was a mechanic, I was using impact wrenches when I was 5 years old. I can also tell you that with all of the different wheel types that the average shop isn't taking time to read manf specs and adjusting impact wrenches. it just aint happening. My dad had a SHITLOAD of torque wrenches in his toolbox. There were certain applications they would definately get used for but for run of the mill stuff they didn't come out of the box. Sorry, but I'm experienced, I don't need a torque wrench to install most parts on my bike though I may use it simply because one of my tool kits has a convenient set of hex bits to use with it.
    As for money being a limiter, the op did state that he was trying to save a few dollars (to which we all informed him that building himself was NOT the way to do so) but If someone was trying to save money suggesting that they NEED to buy a stand is flat out silly!! An el cheap stand is probably still $50-75. The most difficult things to install for the inexperienced would be cranks and headsets, things that a LBS would charge $10-15 to do. IF you are looking to save money, have the shop install those, then put your wheelset on your bike and lean it up against something and bolt on the rest of your parts, it's really quite simple. I can't believe that this is even being debated!!!!!

    Written communication is far more effective if you use paragraphs, not all caps (yelling).

    I'm a little unclear on your point. It sounds like we're agreeing? That having a stand makes a bike build easier.

    You seem to be struggling to read for context. The OP stated that a side benefit of the build up would be saving money, which was corrected by many here. But the reason for the build up was to learn how to build a bike, not paying someone to do it.

    Installing a headset is really simple. You don't need to pay a shop to do it. It's a lot easier if you have a stand. A stand is something that you'll use as long as you're riding bikes. You don't need one, but it makes routine maintenance far easier.

    And that was Mimi's point.


    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.
  • 11-25-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    Cpfitness, I am gonna disagree a bit here. For the inexperienced I think adjusting front and rear der would be the most difficult and frustrating part of the build but still quick, cheap and easy at LBS. Yes, pressing cups should be done with the correct tools but not difficult. Correct spacing on the BB is imperative but most new BB come with very detailed instructions to become nearly a no-brainer. Also, Harbor Freight has torque wrenches for as little as $19.99...not the best but will do for the beginner.
  • 11-25-2012
    mojo28246
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by njoypow View Post
    Dam I fell asleep and people went bonks. Thanks fer backin me up cpfitness...

    And thanks for the negative points mimi1885.... you shud be proud of how awesome you are AND how many posts those little fingers can push out.

    What have you contributed to this post so far beside personally attacking mimi and suggest a backyard DIY crapper. Stop with the number of posts, mimi is a contributing member and the neg rep given to you is well deserved. If you are not comfortable being civil in this forum I'd suggest you go back to pinkbike.

    Go back and read his first post, not only mimi did not shred op every said was true. If you want to build a bike get the stand and tools then go from there, it gets easier but there's a learning curve, even said that DIY stand is ok to most general work by experienced wrencher. What's wrong with that?

    Not every noobs buy a two thousand dollars frame and want to build it up themselves, it can be done but not easy and certainly not with a crapper and misfit tools. Using the right tools is hard enough for noobs' first build and here you are goading op to do it with a poor suggestions, and got mad when people disagree, go figure.
  • 11-25-2012
    jrogs
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mojo28246 View Post
    What have you contributed to this post so far beside personally attacking mimi and suggest a backyard DIY crapper. Stop with the number of posts, mimi is a contributing member and the neg rep given to you is well deserved. If you are not comfortable being civil in this forum I'd suggest you go back to pinkbike.

    Go back and read his first post, not only mimi did not shred op every said was true. If you want to build a bike get the stand and tools then go from there, it gets easier but there's a learning curve, even said that DIY stand is ok to most general work by experienced wrencher. What's wrong with that?

    Not every noobs buy a two thousand dollars frame and want to build it up themselves, it can be done but not easy and certainly not with a crapper and misfit tools. Using the right tools is hard enough for noobs' first build and here you are goading op to do it with a poor suggestions, and got mad when people disagree, go figure.

    Mojo: You must have missed that he was super helpful in his last post where he took what everyone else was saying and passed it off as if he had been the one saying it all along. Is that not helpful? I am glad you realized it was a crapper because I was super confused about what the bucket was for.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    Cpfitness, I am gonna disagree a bit here. For the inexperienced I think adjusting front and rear der would be the most difficult and frustrating part of the build but still quick, cheap and easy at LBS. Yes, pressing cups should be done with the correct tools but not difficult. Correct spacing on the BB is imperative but most new BB come with very detailed instructions to become nearly a no-brainer. Also, Harbor Freight has torque wrenches for as little as $19.99...not the best but will do for the beginner.

    I agree that tuning deraileurs can take some work but i consider that tuning, not assembly of the bike. Yes adjusting on a stand is easier but again, flip your bike upside down and do what you gotta do or ride it on the block and tweak it which will let you see how its going to shift under load

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
  • 11-25-2012
    shibiwan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    Thanks again everyone.... I just figured the bars I purchased would be adequate for the situation... the bars are 640mm long... 31.8mm clamp.... 6 degree up sweep... and 8 degree back sweep.... low rise.... I had a few questions about brakes and gear sets and shifters. .. what is a good brake set up? Avid juicy ultimate carbon? I see the newer bikes run avid xo? Im not sure? I have a 9 speed sram xo rear derailleur and it is a long cage? A friend sold it to me for $30.... i would need 9 speed sram shifters for this correct? this should work right? Sorry for all the questions....

    I run the Avid Juicy Ultimate Carbon on my SJ and they work well. 203 front/185 rear Avid G2CS discs with metallic pads. The Avid Elixir series replaced the Juicys on the newer bikes.

    Keep the X0 Rear derailleur unless you're going 10-spd. You'll need SRAM 9-speed shifters. X5 or better. I really recommend at least an X7 or X9 (metal thumb levers) for the shifters.

    -S
  • 11-25-2012
    mojo28246
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    ;'
    I will echo others sentiments. Building from scratch and cost effective are two things that almost never go together. not to say that it can't be done, but it's awfully tough if you have no experience.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    dont let the naysayers dissuade you. if you want to start riding right away, buying a used bike is a better option. if your willing to take time to get it built and buy it part by part, then go for it. There are also a lot of speciality tools specific to bikes, particularly in the area of crank removal and installation and headset removal and installation so you not only need to buy parts, you need to buy the proper tools or have a bike shop do certain aspects of your install

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH DO YOU NEED A STAND TO BUILD A BIKE? explain the role that a stand plays in building a bike? I wonder if you've even ever built a bike with the answers you are giving, they are so ridiculous. And the fact that it's carbon is irrelevant. people act like carbon magically implodes during assembly without a torque wrench. torque wrenches are for inexperienced dummies...technically the instructions call for it, but people that have experience and know what they are doing don't need to do it.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    I guess u dont read, he already said he ordered it!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    I dont want to get a bike off of craigslist.... I already have a great frame

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Sorry, but I'm experienced, I don't need a torque wrench to install most parts on my bike though I may use it simply because one of my tool kits has a convenient set of hex bits to use with it.

    If someone was trying to save money suggesting that they NEED to buy a stand is flat out silly!! An el cheap stand is probably still $50-75. The most difficult things to install for the inexperienced would be cranks and headsets, things that a LBS would charge $10-15 to do. IF you are looking to save money, have the shop install those, then put your wheelset on your bike and lean it up against something and bolt on the rest of your parts, it's really quite simple. I can't believe that this is even being debated!!!!!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    Mojo: You must have missed that he was super helpful in his last post where he took what everyone else was saying and passed it off as if he had been the one saying it all along. Is that not helpful? I am glad you realized it was a crapper because I was super confused about what the bucket was for.

    I agree. cp Edumucation is out of this world, he's all over the map. Not only he's a self admitted clueless noob on the post he started in the forum however later in this thread he has become an expert bike builder. Even suggested op to buy a crappy bike from bd and transfer them to the new bike, what a noob move. Oh, flipping bike over to tune the drive train is just classic, cp you should stick with road riding and hybrids. I don't have the patience mimi has to be quite civil with him.

    This is a noobs corners where good solid advices to noobs is needed and I think veterans like mimi, rod, ken as well as everyone except the 2 morons has painted a realistic pic for op. These 2 bring bad rep to noobs advising noobs.
  • 11-25-2012
    MadScientist
    I just ordered some avid 7 ultimate juicy carbon brakes f/r..... sram xo carbon shifters..... avid g3 clean sweep rotors 203/185 mm.... let the pile of parts begin :)
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Yeah, bikes exolode when you rest them on the seat and handlebars, especially rugged mtbs. And i forgot, the xtr and x9 groupsets on bikes direct bikes are inferior to the ones on name brand bikes. Silly me. Im a moron. I havent built a dozen road bikes in the past 3 years and you know those mtb hex bolts are wayyyyy different than those road bike hex bolts. I dont know anything.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
  • 11-25-2012
    shibiwan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    I just ordered some avid 7 ultimate juicy carbon brakes f/r..... sram xo carbon shifters..... avid g3 clean sweep rotors 203/185 mm.... let the pile of parts begin :)

    Nice!! I picked up a used set of Juicy Ult 7's recently for spare parts - I should just rebuild those calipers and have them handy. My wife isn't too happy with my ever growing parts pile. I think I have enough parts to put together another bike soon.

    -S
  • 11-25-2012
    mimi1885
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Yeah, bikes exolode when you rest them on the seat and handlebars, especially rugged mtbs. And i forgot, the xtr and x9 groupsets on bikes direct bikes are inferior to the ones on name brand bikes. Silly me. Im a moron. I havent built a dozen road bikes in the past 3 years and you know those mtb hex bolts are wayyyyy different than those road bike hex bolts. I dont know anything.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    Yeap, that the confirmation needed. When you see BD deals you just got tunnel vision and only see XTR, X9 components not all I might add, nevermind some come with road cassette, oem fork, god knows what wheelset, and generic headset that may not fit op's bike. To top them off without the bike stand he had to pay to take the parts off, in order to install it into his bike. If you are building a $300 road bike on the budget bike then it's one thing.

    Looks to me like op is planing to build a $5000+ retail bike and the advice you have to offer him is lean it against the wall and flip the bike upside down to tune the drivetrain.
  • 11-25-2012
    MadScientist
    Lol I dont know about $5000... but I have $2500... I figure it will cost me that much to get a decent start and have some pics to post. This is actually fun and suspenseful waiting for parts... I am going to go to my lbs for install help if you tube cant help me.... I plan on buying a bike stand from my lbs so I am sure they will help... thanks again everyone.... this is getting addicting to say the least :)
  • 11-25-2012
    mimi1885
    Retail:). Parts you picked so far were top of the line.


    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Yeap, that the confirmation needed. When you see BD deals you just got tunnel vision and only see XTR, X9 components not all I might add, nevermind some come with road cassette, oem fork, god knows what wheelset, and generic headset that may not fit op's bike. To top them off without the bike stand he had to pay to take the parts off, in order to install it into his bike. If you are building a $300 road bike on the budget bike then it's one thing.

    Looks to me like op is planing to build a $5000+ retail bike and the advice you have to offer him is lean it against the wall and flip the bike upside down to tune the drivetrain.

    Obviously you aren't too familiar with Bikes Direct. Yes, there are some bikes that are a mish mosh of parts, particularly on the lower end of the spectrum, as you move your way up the chain, they have many offerings that are specced high end all around. He's already stated that he has a frame, FD, and Shock. For someone who has never built a bike before, removing the parts from a frame is one of the BEST ways you can start to learn. Now he has told us he is looking to do this for $2500. For $2500 he could get this bike from bikes direct SRAM XO, 2x10 Speed 29er Carbon Fiber Front Suspension Mountain Bikes - MTB - 2013 Windsor C29 Team29er | SRAM XX hardtail mountain bikes | Save up to 60% off list prices on new bicycles

    Which has very solid all around set of components for him to START riding on. He then has a carbon frame and Reba Shock he can resell. Perhaps the market for a carbon BD frame isn't that high but put the price right and someone will grab it. So he can probably recoup $5-700 from selling those items off. With that money he can buy himself another set of wheels and/or upgrade any parts that came from BD that he feels are deficient. At the rate the op is going it sounds like he is shooting to go pretty high end and I think he is gonna have some unpleasant surprises in his wallet! The little things of bike building really add up. IT's easy to think about wheels, cranks, shifters and derailleurs. But the little things like Seatpost, Seatpost clamp, pedals, saddle, handlebar, stem, tires, etc can really start adding up into the cost of a build.

    I'm still in awe that you guys feel the need to tell people that a stand is an absolute necessity. You guys are more bougie than roadies!!! I'm surprised any of you even wrench your own bikes!!!!

    I'm done fighting with you guys.

    OP, post up the costs of the things you are ordering and keep a running tab. it will be fun to see.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
    I just ordered some avid 7 ultimate juicy carbon brakes f/r..... sram xo carbon shifters..... avid g3 clean sweep rotors 203/185 mm.... let the pile of parts begin :)

    did you get the brakes from ebay or something without rotors? Avids rotors are priced crazy imho considering you can buy a bb7 road mechanical disc brake for $60 and it comes with a g3 rotor that would cost you $30 to buy standalone. Obviously you are going with larger rotors but ultimately,your brakes should come with rotors already, make sure you aren't buying twice!
  • 11-25-2012
    jrogs
    OP that is a good set up so far. Should be fast. I don't think you should buy a 29er from bikes direct since there would be a ton of research to see if the parts would fit. And since specialized didn't make a carbon 29er stumpy in 09 I am guessing your frame is 26" so truly buying a 29er would be stupid. I am actually proud of you for doing a good job collecting parts despite cpfitness "help". I may have missed it if you have a front derailleur or not. Make sure you do research on the type of pull you need and the clamp size. I am still confused about the bucket. Can I get a picture of how you used a bucket and a brick to hold a bike?
  • 11-25-2012
    mimi1885
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    did you get the brakes from ebay or something without rotors? Avids rotors are priced crazy imho considering you can buy a bb7 road mechanical disc brake for $60 and it comes with a g3 rotor that would cost you $30 to buy standalone. Obviously you are going with larger rotors but ultimately,your brakes should come with rotors already, make sure you aren't buying twice!


    That's a good on, honestly lol. you are one extreme couponing for mtb:D
  • 11-25-2012
    mimi1885
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    Can I get a picture of how you used a bucket and a brick to hold a bike?

    Me too.;)
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    OP that is a good set up so far. Should be fast. I don't think you should buy a 29er from bikes direct since there would be a ton of research to see if the parts would fit. And since specialized didn't make a carbon 29er stumpy in 09 I am guessing your frame is 26" so truly buying a 29er would be stupid. I am actually proud of you for doing a good job collecting parts despite cpfitness "help". I may have missed it if you have a front derailleur or not. Make sure you do research on the type of pull you need and the clamp size. I am still confused about the bucket. Can I get a picture of how you used a bucket and a brick to hold a bike?

    my mistake in using a 29er as an example for some reason i was thinking that is what he is building. The cost actually becomes even more advantageous when using a 26er from BD. They have an aluminum full suspension with SRAM XO components for $2100 as well as a Ti Hardtail for $2500 There is not a ton of research involved in figuring out if a bd bike will work. it's easy enough to look up specs of both bikes. his frame is here Specialized Bicycle Components
    first of all, shifters, brakes, and deraileur are definately going to work. bottom bracket shells are compatible. Sounds like he already has a headset since he has frame and fork already but the BD bike has a 1 1/8th headtube while his frame is tapered so that wouldn't work out of the box but again, he's already got a fork so he would be selling off the BD frame and fork (and would get more $$$ for it since he can sell it with the headset already installed. Looks like he also needs a new seatpost and seatpost clamp but he can keep the BD saddle. Over all the bulk of the parts he needs would carry over to the new bike. Again he can recoup close to a grand if he sells of a Ti hardtail frame with those extras he doesn't need and then reinvest it back into the bike. or he could simply keep the frame and make that part of his next project, perhaps rebuild it with lesser components for a beater bike. He has a lot of options. I'm sorry if you guys think I'm coming off as a know it all, I'm just trying to give the guy some options that include saving $$$$ and some simplicity all the while enabling him to learn how to wrench. Hell with the money he would save by stripping parts he could even afford a nice park tool workstand! :D he's prepared to spend 2500 bucks, if he follows my advice he could have a high end rideable bike for $1250.
  • 11-25-2012
    Ken in KC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    my mistake in using a 29er as an example for some reason i was thinking that is what he is building. The cost actually becomes even more advantageous when using a 26er from BD. They have an aluminum full suspension with SRAM XO components for $2100 as well as a Ti Hardtail for $2500 There is not a ton of research involved in figuring out if a bd bike will work. it's easy enough to look up specs of both bikes. his frame is here Specialized Bicycle Components
    first of all, shifters, brakes, and deraileur are definately going to work. bottom bracket shells are compatible. Sounds like he already has a headset since he has frame and fork already but the BD bike has a 1 1/8th headtube while his frame is tapered so that wouldn't work out of the box but again, he's already got a fork so he would be selling off the BD frame and fork (and would get more $$$ for it since he can sell it with the headset already installed. Looks like he also needs a new seatpost and seatpost clamp but he can keep the BD saddle. Over all the bulk of the parts he needs would carry over to the new bike. Again he can recoup close to a grand if he sells of a Ti hardtail frame with those extras he doesn't need and then reinvest it back into the bike. or he could simply keep the frame and make that part of his next project, perhaps rebuild it with lesser components for a beater bike. He has a lot of options. I'm sorry if you guys think I'm coming off as a know it all, I'm just trying to give the guy some options that include saving $$$$ and some simplicity all the while enabling him to learn how to wrench. Hell with the money he would save by stripping parts he could even afford a nice park tool workstand! :D he's prepared to spend 2500 bucks, if he follows my advice he could have a high end rideable bike for $1250.

    Again, paragraphs are your friend.

    And you're right, this could be a solution. But that's not what you said earlier. What you said was that Mimi was an idiot for suggesting that the op purchase a stand.




    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Sorry if i dont stick to perfect grammar when typing on a phone. Ive been consistent in my answers all along yet ive been erroneously told im way off base. How much more must i post to prove my points?

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  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ken in KC View Post
    Again, paragraphs are your friend.

    And you're right, this could be a solution. But that's not what you said earlier. What you said was that Mimi was an idiot for suggesting that the op purchase a stand.




    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.

    Kindly show me where i called him an idiot? On the other hand i can show you where someone called me a moron!


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  • 11-25-2012
    Ken in KC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Kindly show me where i called him an idiot? On the other hand i can show you where someone called me a moron!


    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    Cognitive dissonance? You've completely missed my point.

    Stick around. Get to know some folks. Don't be a dick.


    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ken in KC View Post
    Cognitive dissonance? You've completely missed my point.

    Stick around. Get to know some folks. Don't be a dick.


    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.

    Lol you dont have a point. I dont kiss anyone's ass. I havent resorted to name calling. Ive pointed out factual errors and been called a moron and now a dick. Total ********. Go reread the entire thread. People told the op it takes 6months to build a bike and he must have stand. Im the bad guy for calling ******** on that? I build bikes in an hour or 2 without a stand and im not a pro wrench! Now if you want to say it may take time to source parts and stuff like that? Fine but 6months? Lol.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
  • 11-25-2012
    Ken in KC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Lol you dont have a point. I dont kiss anyone's ass. I havent resorted to name calling. Ive pointed out factual errors and been called a moron and now a dick. Total ********. Go reread the entire thread. People told the op it takes 6months to build a bike and he must have stand. Im the bad guy for calling ******** on that? I build bikes in an hour or 2 without a stand and im not a pro wrench! Now if you want to say it may take time to source parts and stuff like that? Fine but 6months? Lol.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    Again w the cognitive dissonance. And I most certainly didn't call you a dick. Simply offering some advice.

    I'm sorry your feelings are hurt.


    Sent from my rotary phone and compiled with a telegraph machine.
  • 11-25-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    I agree man, you have missed the point. I have read the whole thread and yes, someone said that it could take 6 months if he were looking for deals and saving up. That was BEFORE the OP said how much he had to spend on the build. And not literally how long it would take to build the bike once he was in possession of all the parts.

    As far as repairs stands go, I don't recall anyone saying that he "must have" a repair stand. I myself said that they make life easier but not totally necessary. Why are you so against repair stands?? They are a worth while tool. Higher on the list of tools than a headset press, IMO.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    I agree man, you have missed the point. I have read the whole thread and yes, someone said that it could take 6 months if he were looking for deals and saving up. That was BEFORE the OP said how much he had to spend on the build. And not literally how long it would take to build the bike once he was in possession of all the parts.

    As far as repairs stands go, I don't recall anyone saying that he "must have" a repair stand. I myself said that they make life easier but not totally necessary. Why are you so against repair stands?? They are a worth while tool. Higher on the list of tools than a headset press, IMO.

    Mimi clearly stated that a repair stand was a must. All i said was that it was certainly not a must which he refuted. He then went on to ask how a crank could be installed without a stand. I answered him in detail. Im contemplating shooting a video of me removing and reinstalling my crank! This began as a discussion on doing a build to save money. That is the way I continue to approach it. Hell, i even advised the op that a first time builder will almost never realize any savings but certainly can learn a lot to save money down the road. Can we get this discussion back to helping a newbie build a bike because until someone can present concrete facts proving me wrong like ive done to others, im not backing down.

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  • 11-25-2012
    jrogs
    It was not said that it takes 6 months of building. But if you are trying to save money it does take time to find a good deal on the specific parts that you would want. That is what takes the time. you advice has consisted of telling OP he doesn't need a stand when he has said he was going to get one and to buy another bike and harvest the mediocre parts and sell the rest. If he wanted to be stuck with parts that the company decided he could have bought a complete bike in the first place and it could be specialized and quality parts and not bikes direct parts.
  • 11-25-2012
    ghettocop
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    you are such an unknolwedgeable person it's disgusting! lol, I didn't know I needed to make a youtube video of me sliding a seatpost into a tube and locking it down with a clamp. or putting my wheels on and shutting the quickreleases. WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH DO YOU NEED A STAND TO BUILD A BIKE? explain the role that a stand plays in building a bike? I wonder if you've even ever built a bike with the answers you are giving, they are so ridiculous. And the fact that it's carbon is irrelevant. people act like carbon magically implodes during assembly without a torque wrench. torque wrenches are for inexperienced dummies. Have you ever seen someone use a torque wrench to put lugnuts on a car wheel? technically the instructions call for it, but people that have experience and know what they are doing don't need to do it.

    "torque wrenches are for inexperienced dummies"? This is the worst advice I have ever heard on this site. Proper torque values on fasteners, (especially when mating to carbon) is paramount to a safe and reliable build.
    The negative rep will be from me. You will be able to tell by the signature, and the fact that I used a Torque wrench set to 5.6 nm to give you proper rep.
  • 11-25-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    "torque wrenches are for inexperienced dummies"? This is the worst advice I have ever heard on this site. Proper torque values on fasteners, (especially when mating to carbon) is paramount to a safe and reliable build.
    The negative rep will be from me. You will be able to tell by the signature, and the fact that I used a Torque wrench set to 5.6 nm to give you proper rep.

    LOL! The + rep will be from me. You will be able to tell by the signature...

    Maybe the brick is used to ensure proper torque without a repair stand to secure the bike??
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrogs View Post
    It was not said that it takes 6 months of building. But if you are trying to save money it does take time to find a good deal on the specific parts that you would want. That is what takes the time. you advice has consisted of telling OP he doesn't need a stand when he has said he was going to get one and to buy another bike and harvest the mediocre parts and sell the rest. If he wanted to be stuck with parts that the company decided he could have bought a complete bike in the first place and it could be specialized and quality parts and not bikes direct parts.

    Again tell me how the xt, xtr, and xo parts from bikes direct are different from what the "name brands" put in their bikes. Nobody said anything about mediocre parts, just showing him how to get better prices on best stuff without spending "6months" looking. Lets get off the stand issue, for the last time you dont need a stand to build a bike, nice to have but unnecessary. He said hes gonna buy one, great. Stop putting words in my mouth and putting misinformation out there.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    "torque wrenches are for inexperienced dummies"? This is the worst advice I have ever heard on this site. Proper torque values on fasteners, (especially when mating to carbon) is paramount to a safe and reliable build.
    The negative rep will be from me. You will be able to tell by the signature, and the fact that I used a Torque wrench set to 5.6 nm to give you proper rep.

    Let me repeat myself. Torque wrenches are for inexperiences dummies. Id love to put a hidden camera on a pro wrench and see how often they use torque wrenches. Its CARBON fiber, not silk fiber. You know carbon, the same things diamonds come from. A little common sense goes a long way, the op is a mechanic by trade for chrissakes
    Ps i also said torque wrenches arent crazy expensive like someone else made them out to be! Lol
    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
  • 11-25-2012
    HitmenOnlyInc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Let me repeat myself. Torque wrenches are for inexperiences dummies. Id love to put a hidden camera on a pro wrench and see how often they use torque wrenches. Its CARBON fiber, not silk fiber. You know carbon, the same things diamonds come from. A little common sense goes a long way, the op is a mechanic by trade for chrissakes

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    Also graphite...one of the softest known materials!
  • 11-25-2012
    mimi1885
    Ken and everyone I think I got it figured out. Grab some popcorn.

    Yes, I suggested the first thing to get is a bikestand it's no brainer, sop, then njoy said he uses a DIY contraption mojo finely referred to as a crapper. I asked how are you even going to install say a crankset and bb. Cp not understanding the context went on and explained how to do it.

    I said, I can see that it can be done but not ideal. Not saying that bikestand is a must. He didn't get it. Now it's on, or how he put it? I'm not backing down. That's when we start seeing his flip flopping the context to fit his new agenda.

    See, he's a thin skin noobs who's not going to be told he's wrong. I'm quite certain 3 things would happen on this thread.

    One it would turn into a rep party, two, cp would be ban, and three, this would get binned.


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  • 11-25-2012
    shibiwan
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    Also graphite...one of the softest known materials!

    ...and if you really want to nitpick, some types carbon fiber is also called "graphite fiber".....it all depends on what temperature it is made at - and also the manufacturer's sales guy selling the stuff to you.
  • 11-25-2012
    ghettocop
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Let me repeat myself. Torque wrenches are for inexperiences dummies. Id love to put a hidden camera on a pro wrench and see how often they use torque wrenches. Its CARBON fiber, not silk fiber. You know carbon, the same things diamonds come from. A little common sense goes a long way, the op is a mechanic by trade for chrissakes
    Ps i also said torque wrenches arent crazy expensive like someone else made them out to be! Lol
    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    Then I guess I will volunteer for you to put a "hidden camera" on me then. While I would not consider myself a "pro wrench", I do build bikes all day long for a major bike retailer. All day long the stem binder bolts, bar face-plate, cable anchor bolts, caliper mounting bolts, rotor mounting bolts, BB cups, crank bolts, seat post clamp bolts, etc, are all torqued to spec. I especially pay close attention to torque specs when building my personal stuff.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Ken and everyone I think I got it figured out. Grab some popcorn.

    Yes, I suggested the first thing to get is a bikestand it's no brainer, sop, then njoy said he uses a DIY contraption mojo finely referred to as a crapper. I asked how are you even going to install say a crankset and bb. Cp not understanding the context went on and explained how to do it.

    I said, I can see that it can be done but not ideal. Not saying that bikestand is a must. He didn't get it. Now it's on, or how he put it? I'm not backing down. That's when we start seeing his flip flopping the context to fit his new agenda.

    See, he's a thin skin noobs who's not going to be told he's wrong. I'm quite certain 3 things would happen on this thread.

    One it would turn into a rep party, two, cp would be ban, and three, this would get binned.


    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

    lol, why would I get banned, I'm not the one being antagonizing and doing name calling. I continually try to present facts. on 2 occassions you said a stand was a must before finally conceding that you've never built a bike without one but supposed it could be done. I'd love to know what I've flip flopped on? Bottom line, I could take the op's frame and build it to a reasonably high end spec in under 1 month and under 1500 bucks. I'm saying one month because I'm allowing for time to sell off parts under my donor bike scenario. Personally, I think the op is making a big mistake in going high end on his first build for a few reasons.

    1. my personal opinion is that you should start on lower end bikes to help develop a feel and appreciation for the better bikes.
    2. Expensive high end parts often aren't the BEST part for us casual riders. i.e. if your a pro racer with sponsorship that doesn't have to pay for parts, you will go with lightweight over durable parts that function equally well.
    3, If he truly takes on this endeavor solo and makes a serious mistake it could be very costly. I'd rather strip a thread on a Suntour crank than a XTR crank. I don't expect this to happen he's an experienced mechanic but still, it's possible.

    Obviously the op probably should re-evaluate what his ultimate goals are. You don't expect someone to say "I've never ridden a bike before, I want to build my own to save money.....oh and by the way, I want to build it with all the highest end parts that exist" Quite frankly, I think it's a foolish endeavor but when involved in forums I do my best to try to answer the questions that are asked not just inject my opinion on the question being asked.

    you guys seem to derive so much pleasure from your forum rantings. I have no friggin idea what this whole "rep" thing even is and really dont give a **** if I have any or not. And I love being called a noob. just because I"m new to your forum doesn't make me new to the world of cycling. you keep building your over priced bikes and I'll keep building my value bikes that equally or outperform yours.
  • 11-25-2012
    mimi1885
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Again tell me how the xt, xtr, and xo parts from bikes direct are different from what the "name brands" put in their bikes. Nobody said anything about mediocre parts, just showing him how to get better prices on best stuff without spending "6months" looking. Lets get off the stand issue, for the last time you dont need a stand to build a bike, nice to have but unnecessary. He said hes gonna buy one, great. Stop putting words in my mouth and putting misinformation out there.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    Hmmm! You are really a noob. The $2500 bd bike advertised 3x10 XTR dynaSys contain only a few XTR parts. Fsa cranks and bb, ultegra 11-28 cassette and knc chain and the list just keeps growing. Slipping grip? Op would ended up spending dollars tryoing to save pennies.


    You are not the first genius to have the eureka moment, also why at the beginning and the end on the riding season bd's frames are flooding ebay and CL.

    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    Then I guess I will volunteer for you to put a "hidden camera" on me then. While I would not consider myself a "pro wrench", I do build bikes all day long for a major bike retailer. All day long the stem binder bolts, bar face-plate, cable anchor bolts, caliper mounting bolts, rotor mounting bolts, BB cups, crank bolts, seat post clamp bolts, etc, are all torqued to spec. I especially pay close attention to torque specs when building my personal stuff.

    in all honesty, I have no beef with using a torque wrench. considering the bulk of things like stem bolts, deraileur clamps, bottle cages and shifter and brake levers all use a couple of different sized bolts, it's super easy to use a torque wrench. If I spent a ton of money on a high end carbon frame, I would take out my torque wrench and be safe rather than sorry. But as it pertains to the general buildability of a bike, plenty of bikes on the road are doing just fine without torque wrenches being used on them, even carbon bikes.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Hmmm! You are really a noob. The $2500 bd bike advertised 3x10 XTR dynaSys contain only a few XTR parts. Fsa cranks and bb, ultegra 11-28 cassette and knc chain and the list just keeps growing. Slipping grip? Op would ended up spending dollars trying to save pennies.


    You are not the first genius to have the eureka moment, also why at the beginning and the end on the riding season bd's frames are flooding ebay and CL.

    Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

    The bike I was referencing is here Save up to 60% off Titanium Mountain Bikes - 2011 Motobecane Fly Titanium

    Lets look at all the specs. Kindly tell me what is wrong with FSA K-light carbon cranks??? thats an upgrade from xtr in a lot of peoples books! ANd obviously if you have an FSA crank it's going to come with it's matching BB! and are you really going to complain about a kmc chain? lol give me a break! the brand of chain should be the least of your worries, its the cheapest part of the drivetrain!

    The bike comes with XTR Shifters, Front and Rear Deraileurs and an XT 11-36 cassette. Oh yeah by the way, this is all latest and greatest 10spd drivetrain, not previous generation 9 speed. now I know there is absolutely nothing wrong with 9speed and it is preferable to many but since the op seems to be interested in building up a high end machine, why wouldn't we want latest and greatest technology??
    Avid XO brakes and Ritchey WCS bars, stem, seatpost etc round out the bike. Thats a pretty high end build. Not the highest, we don't hve carbon bars, stem, etc but cmon, the guy said he was trying to build himself to save a few bucks. The first place you save in doing a build is by going with quality aluminum over carbon(half the time aluminum parts weight the same as their carbon counterparts)
  • 11-25-2012
    jrogs
    Chains are much more expensive than front derailleur. So $2500 for handlebars, stem, saddle, shifters, derailleurs, brakes and rotors, tires and tubes, maybe front derailleur, maybe seat post and clamp. Since he already has rims and a fork. That is a good deal? Then have to sell off the other parts. You could get the SRAM xo groupo brand new for $1500 without shopping around and don't need to sell anything.
  • 11-25-2012
    cpfitness
    I'm done, op my pm box is open if you want straight talk and advice about how to build up a bike. I'm sure that we all want you to have a successful build but somewhere along the way we all forgot that there are multiple ways to skin a cat. As a fellow clydesdale, I can offer you insight into some of the durabilty issues bikes will present to you as they are numerous.