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Mini-rant: Beginners beware of "gear snobs"

3K views 40 replies 28 participants last post by  mauzmon 
#1 ·
This might be more appropriate for "General Discussion," but since the kind if guys I'm gonna gripe about are liable to be the bane of beginners I figured I'd put it here. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that the best way to run the risk of squelching your interest in something early on is to talk with other enthusiasts about that something... especially online. MTBR seems to have a group, though there are one or two "gear snobs" as I call them that pop up now and then. Moreso, though, it seems you run into these guys in chat areas and general forums where you both happen to discover you enjoy biking.

Once that's established, one person.. usually the one that's either not.. or not so much of a beginner asks the other what they have. So the newbie, often not being one to throw down $1,000 plus on a bike when entering back into the sport, describes their entry-level bike.

The other person is then VERY quick to reply with at best a :/ or at worst something along the lines of "those suck."

Of course, it can be other things like accessories, too. Say you have a set of WTB Velociraptors or something that came highly recommended by your LBS and had consistently good reviews here on MTBR's review sections. The "gear snob" is very quick to tell you about how your choice in tires, despite the fact that you think they ride like a dream, plainly sucks. Then they go on to laud their personal preferences like Kenda or Maxxis or whatever. And heaven forbid you divulge that you ride with Brand X safety glasses because you can't yet bring yourself to toss away $100 for a pair of glasses lest you get a lecture on how anybody who's anybody wears Tifosi or Optic Nerve or whatever.

The thing that grates really quickly with the gear snobs is that, first of all, they have no capacity for diplomacy. They don't seem to relate to the idea that each person has their own preferences and, of course, budget... and that maybe someday Newbie Joe will look into some more serious and costly gear... but for now they just want what's workable. They seem to give off this aura that if you haven't invested about $2,000 in accessories, clothing, helmets, and other gear alone then you might as well not even bother getting on your bike. They don't seem to be able to say something as diplomatic as, "Well, I never had much success with Velociraptors. I'm partial to blah blah blah." They just render their opinions as if they were facts delivered from on high straight to their lips.

Then, to top it off, they can't really back up their opinions with facts. Sometimes they may be based on personal experiences with a product, but they forget that mileage may vary. But generally they can't come up with anything better than, "I don't like those. They suck. You should buy these."

You see this a lot with other things... music, games, movies, shows.... mostly things that are matters of opinion rather than genuine merit. Because they don't share your opinion on the value of a North Face or Platypus hydration pack versus Camelbak, they figure you might as well wrap the water tube around your neck and hang yourself right now. These guys can be poison to the newbie looking for like-minded individuals to share their newfound interest with... so watch out for them.

All in all, though, it's just so disheartening to come across someone that operates with the mentality of, "I have opinion X and you have opinion Y. Because opinion X is my opinion, it's obviously more correct than yours."
 
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#2 ·
zenzhu, I've experienced your post and agree with you. I've also heard it the other way around though. People pointing at a newbie and laughing because they are on a really nice/expensive bike and going slowly. If they like it and can afford it, why not get it and enjoy riding it. :cool:
 
#4 ·
I'm still a newbie at this sport having picked it up last year along with road biking and I'll tell ya. I've never seen a more cocky group of people than the biking crowd. The road guys are worse. They will outcast you for any little thing they seem inappropriate. How many times I tried waving are even saying a 'hello' and not get any acknowledgment. Zen is right. The first thing they do is look at your equipment and start judging. The thing that really pisses me off however is that if you were to have an accident, They wouldn't even stop and see if your alright.
 
#6 ·
Every beginner should be told the story of milk jug guy to remind them what riding is about.
 
#7 ·
jamisguy said:
I'm still a newbie at this sport having picked it up last year along with road biking and I'll tell ya. I've never seen a more cocky group of people than the biking crowd. The road guys are worse. They will outcast you for any little thing they seem inappropriate. How many times I tried waving are even saying a 'hello' and not get any acknowledgment. Zen is right. The first thing they do is look at your equipment and start judging. The thing that really pisses me off however is that if you were to have an accident, They wouldn't even stop and see if your alright.
Wow! Too bad this is happening. I do know there are a few bad apples in the bunch from time to time, but always remember that we cannot put a label on an entire group. When idiots come on and slam you for whatever reason, just remind them they did not come from the womb with an XTR equipped, titanium tubed, carbon fibered umbilical cord. These guys are stupid and must be ignored. Let em' flame you if they want, makes em' look dumber than before.

As far as roadies are concerned, I'll tell you a little story.

I have a road bike that I train with when the trails are a mess. I was in a town 100 miles from home for a meeting. I decided to go for a ride. Well as I was unloading my bike from my vehicle, I happened upon a road bike group ride. Finding out that I was from out of town, they asked me to join them. I declined and said that I was a mtb'r and had little experience of riding with a group of dedicated roadies. They persisted and ensured me that all is cool. So I reluctantly agreed.

There was about 12 or 13 of us, with one being the coach of the local race team. They were friendly and giving me all kinds of advice and tips on what I was doing....it was a great help. I felt good that I could keep up with them, they showed me how to ride in the group and how to draft. They showed me how they rotate in the group constantly to take turns pulling. It was a real joy to ride with these guys. I had a blast.

I was right behind the coach who was pulling at the time, I was getting ready to take my turn at the front when something caught my eye to my left. That little distraction caused me to veer ever so slightly into his wheel and down I went at 26 mph. OUCH!!! The rest of the group was able to get past me as I went down, except one guy's pedal caught me in the back of the helmet and tore a chunk out. Luckily, I was the only one who hit the pavement. I felt terrible and figured these guys were gonna disown me cause of my inexperience. But these guys were like any group I have ever ridden with on the trails. They were concerned that I may be hurt, or my bike was damaged. I was shaken up and they waited patiently for me to settle down and get myself together.

I was running out of gas with 10 miles to go. They kept pace to keep from dropping me, and let me ride in the back as they took turns pulling the group. These guys were a class act. When we got back to the parking lot, they all were very nice to me and encouraging me to meet up with them again the next time I was in town. No ego trips in this group. I was bleeding and sore from the crash, they offered me whatever help and bandages they could.

We said our goodbyes and went our seperate ways, but I learned that whatever stereotypes I had about roadies, and I had them, went out the window that day. These guys were racers from Cat 5 up to Cat 1 or 2. They were the most supportive group I have ever ridden with, on or off road.

So I don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch for me. Bad apples go in the garbage can.
 
#8 ·
Sixty Fiver said:
Every beginner should be told the story of milk jug guy to remind them what riding is about.
No doubt! I'll try to "search" that one down... That was a great thread!

Cheers, Chris

EDIT: That was easier than I thought it would be... LOL Here's the milk jug story...
 
#9 ·
Universal Wannabes?

I do a few others forums for my other interests. The people I get a kick out of are those that have a few years under their belt and are now experts.
Those nice roadies were all beginners at one time, they know what it is like to struggle.
I see these people doing these outrageous build sheets w/every item weighed. Then they go on and on about something that doesn't even exist yet?I doubt that they will ever be built let alone ridden. I wonder how many people don't ride much, they just like to post their endless opinionated screeds backed by very little if any real world experience!
In my Martial Atrs training, we don't throw newbies to the dogs. We give them as much help as possible. Getting started is tough enough as is. The advanced beginners think they know what works for them. They don't have the big pic on how others learn.
Whenever I start something new, I always try to get some pointers from someone who has been around long enough to know "The Easy Way" and how to teach it. Those that have the knowledge are usually very nice about sharing it.
The wannabes usually have read up on their subject. All they can do is quote others.
Nothing is a substitute for real world experience.

Ricisan
 
#10 ·
You will find "those" type of people ALL OVER the internet...I have visited the same Widespread Panic music forum for years...and if ya'll think the *****in' and moanin' on this board is bad...try moving on over to that unnamed Panic board...

If any of ya'll know the trials and tribulations of Widespread Panic over the past 5 years you would know what I am talking about...WAY too much *****in' and moanin' from fans...both old and new...

I live by the motto treat others as you would want to be treated...and I try and stay courteous to all I come in contact with...so far I have been pretty lucky in that everyone I have spoken with on this board have been helpful and nice...and everyone I have passed (or better said have passed me) on the trails have always smiled and been nice...and probably appreciative a rookie like myself made way and allowed them to pass freely...haha
 
#11 · (Edited)
This has been going on since....

time began. People judge you by what you have not what you do! Ignore it and don't associate with people like that! I've been riding for over 40 years and it was like that when I started out. It ain't anything new. My gear, my ride, the components I use are what I like and what works for ME! I don't give a rats backside what everyone else is using. And it isn't just gear either, you can be judged for how you like to ride XC vs Freeride, slow vs fast, whether or not you race, how often you ride, you name it!

It's sad really, because the sport started out with people just riding for the shear fun of it. And it didn't start out with Gary what's his name either. I was mountain biking when that GF guy was still drooling on his bib and pooping in his drawers! It's just that 44 years ago we didn't call it mountain biking, it was just having fun! Just a bunch of 6 year olds riding dirt trails all over the southern half of lower Michigan. It didn't matter what you rode, what you wore, gear? what gear! Shorts (usually cut off blue jeans), Tshirt and a pair of old ratty Converse All Stars (or something similar), and not that new crap they have now either, just ratty old canvas tenies or whateve. There wasn't any "gear", and cycling helmets were UNKNOWN! It was just FUN! All that mattered was that you were on two wheels and having fun in the dirt. We had guys that rode everything from 26" cruisers (like me) down to 20" Schwinn Stingrays and nobody cared. We didn't even know what the hell a mountain bike was! Mostly cause there weren't no such thing, yet! :eek:

Unfortunately it's human nature to be judgemental and to form groups or cliques if you will with other like minded individuals. Some of these groups are a good thing, some are not. For my part I don't belong to any group, except the group that loves to ride and thinks it cool that you do no matter what or how you ride! :thumbsup:

Maybe I'm weird, or there's something wrong with me, but if you love to ride and are passionate about it, then we have something in common. That commonality makes us kindered spirits so to speak. And that's what used to be so great about mountain bikers and mountain biking. Didn't matter what you rode, what you wore, who you were in the real world, or how you liked to ride. You rode, that was all that mattered. To me, it's still all that matters. I'll ride on an old Huffy or a $7000 high zoot FS bike (I'd rather ride the zooter, but....). I don't care, I LOVE TO RIDE! And it don't matter one bit what YOU ride either, as long as you're lovin' it then RIDE! I'll wave to ya and say hey if we meat on the trail. I'll lend you a tube if you flat and had a brain fart and didn't bring an spare, I'll share my spare chain links if you blow yer chain, or haul out the disinfectant wipes and second skin spray if you're bleedin'. Heck I'll even ride with ya if we're going the same way ad it's okay with you! Lost on the trail and need to get back to the trail head. I'll lead you back (what can I say I give lousy directions). :D Why? Because I ride and so do you and I've probably been there and done that!

So remember dude, it ain't what others do. It's what you do. Just keep it real and have fun. And don't be like the snobs. They were all newbs once too, with a passion for riding. Just feels sorry for them, because they've lost that passion and have substituted snobbery for it. And if they never really had the passion to begin with, then feel sorry for them because they're wannabes and possers and will never be anything else. They get their thrills from having the latest stuff. And that's even sadder, cause in the end that's all they end up with is stuff!

Bottom line, set the example! Ignore the gear queers, and the elitest snobs! Ride how, and what works for you. And always remember where you came from. The most fun I've ever had is watching a newbie grow and discover what he really likes! And the greatest kick is helping them along the way! There are still allot of us out there that feel like I do about the sport. Allot more than you probably realize. It's unfortunate that we have "the others" out there. But it happens in all areas of life. So just remember they are out there and strive to NOT be like they are.

My signature says it all, Good Dirt. I end every post I make with it. Because that is my wish for you or any that read it. A wish that you are always able to find "good dirt" to ride. It doesn't matter who you are, what you ride it on, or with, or how, whether we agree or disagree. I just hope you find good dirt to ride!

By the way, Raptors do SUCK!!! :D But that's just my opinion, so it don't matter anyway!

Good Dirt
 
#12 ·
I have noticed the elitism with roadies, but not so much with mtbrs. Now if you want a *really good* example of snobbery, talk to gun people. It's a really sad day when people are talking about how great their guns are when they'll never be as great as my HK.
 
#13 ·
Can we stop bashing roadies already ?

This Mike fella is one of my riding mates and one of the most decent people I've ever met, on or off the trail... and he has a few road bikes.

He and the other guys even let me hang with them on my decrepit old machines.

:D
 
#14 ·
It is an unfortunate comment on the world that we live in to see how prevalent these sorts of attitudes can be. I wish that there were more people out there who didn't jump to conclusions right off the top and act on them.

FWIW, I don't care who you are, what your skill level is or what you ride...if you need help, I'll help however possible. I guess it is part of the reason I volunteer (as a first aider) and, though I don't have a local patrol, I consider every one of my rides to be a bike patrol ride for me.

In one of my longer rides, I've had the opportunity to help a newbie with a tire that was low and his friend who had a brake lever come loose. On the same ride, I stopped to help a roadie with a flat who had run out of cylinders for his CO2 inflator.

Don't let the jerks sour you to this great sport...know that they are the minority (though on the internet it can seem less like that is the case) :)
 
#15 ·
Expensive Fashion Accessories?

ORM: I know what you mean; I've seen guys w/ $2000 guns who really don't know how to shoot. It's obvious that their grip and stance are just wrong. I'm sure being seen w/expensive toy is cool for them. No matter what you shoot, you have to get and hold the sights on target. Getting better means pratice and work!!!!
In Martial Arts status symbols are few. Beyond your rank/belt there isn't much to hide behind.
No matter what kind of person you are, you can't hide what that is. If your a bully/coward or helpful/selfish it will come out. I can see where that could be rather intimidating to a noob. The good new is what you see is what we are really like.
I will admit that we "Bujinkan" are heavily accessorised. Almost as bad as golfwes or fishermen. Just how many training weapons do I need? I don't know but the count is going up.Elitists show me that I don't want to be part of their group.

I know an ex seal that busts wannabes regularly. When asked, they can't even remember their class # or who was in the class w/them. Now that is something that you wouldn't ever forget.

"I wouldn't join any group that would have me as a member" Groucho Marx

Ricisan
 
#19 ·
I was insulted by a GEAR SNOB just this week! The guy in question owned a "Boutique Bike" equipped with LX components. The first words out of his mouth were, "Iron Horse, don't they sell those in department stores?" All I said was, YEAH, THEY DO."

All that jackass saw, was a sticker that said Iron Horse. My bike was instantly inferior to his!!! If he would have look a bit closer, he would have realized I was riding a (full XO, Thomson, Race Face) DW-LINK MKIII Team. I should be the gear snob- not him.

Wasn't the first time it has happened AND it won't be the last. I suppose being first up/ first down is sweet enough revenge. No biggie!
 
#20 ·
One more gear snob story. I also ride an older lightweight XC race hardtail. Again, I get my balls busted! This time, the bright color (that is no longer cool) and matching bar ends.... The race ready weight doesn't matter. The top of the line parts kit "don't" matter. The fact I destroy most people on the climbs doesn't matter. All that matters is that my bike is dated. All that's missing is my neon shirt and Duran Duran CD!!! Ohhhh well!!!
 
#21 ·
I think it's all about the guys you run with (am I being a friend snob?). Some enthusiasts are extremely helpful, accepting of a cheaper bike (realizing they were once riding an entry-level bike too), etc. Every sport/hobby/trade/whatever has that guy who is like "pssh, you're lame and should consider dying for riding/using part x, you should look at part y, bro!". Just don't worry about it and have some fun. If someone is really interested in biking, a snob won't deter them, it will just make them look elsewhere for information :).
 
#23 ·
I think the responses in this thread are a good counterpoint to my original rant. I had come across a gear snob online and.. well.. it didn't deter me from biking in the least, but it made me sad for the human condition. But the responses are a great way to show any newbie that ever happens on this thread that for every gear snob out there, there are a bunch of great bikers with a real sense of community. I know I feel fortunate that the group that my local LBS and outdoor store has are basically very encouraging of anyone getting out there and doing whatever it is with whatever gear they feel appropriate and/or can afford. I loved the story about the roadies, since they tend to have a bad rep. That really demonstrates that it's all about the person, not the gear, on both sides of the spectrum.
 
#24 ·
Perhaps I am defensive of roadies because I ride as much road as I do off road as do most of the guys I hang with here in the far frozen north.

Too many MBr's seems to have adopted an anti roadie position without ever trying out one of those thin wheeled road rockets or make broad generalizations after a few bad experiences with non MBr's.

I'm sure their are road riders who have prejudicial opinions of those who ride fatties but all in all, cyclists are a pretty decent group of people no matter what they ride.

Within that greater community there will always be those who will look down on others because they aren't meeting their standards for gear, abilities, or sense of fashion.

I'll be the guy on the vintage road bikes wearing the same baggies I do when I'm off roading on my mountain bikes, riding one of my classics, or crossing the city on my daily commute.

I am also a cycling advocate and volunter as a mechanic with several organizations in our city which gives me the opportunity to liason between them and bring different groups together.

Besides that, I get to teach skills to those who are interested in learning and there's something about seeing young people who are keen on riding also willing to get their hands as dirty as mine as they learn to manintain and build up their own bikes.
 
#25 ·
Snobbery is present everywhere. I'm a cameraman by trade, and what I've noticed is that it is usually the amateur forums that talk about which camera is better than another. The professional guys just care about whether something works. For example many newbies with too much money to spend will argue over which matte box or french flag is best for shading the lens. Many professionals even on a 35mm feature film will just stick some black wrap above the lens using gaffer tape!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps the gear snobs don't ride as much as they make out, and spend most of their time looking at their shiny bike that has never set its eyes on that gloopy stuff called mud. ;)

Luckily I haven't encountered much snobbery in the biking world. I sometimes rib my mates about their el cheapo bikes, but then I get it back with them giving me jibes about the decrepit old bike that I ride.

As others have said, just have fun. You are unlikely to meet anyone off an internet forum. A snobs opinion shouldn't wind you up. Now that Mike Vandeman fella...
 
#26 ·
For those of us that have a passion in life, It's hard to understand those that don't. Let us never forget that if there is any money, power, attention or authority attached, there will be someone who wants to sit in the BIG CHAIR.
Everyone I know who has the real "knowhow" is usually very generous w/their time and energy. I think that is the difference between real mentors and those that want to play
"The old Pro" syndrome complete w/1000 yr stare.
When it comes to training, loose doesn't mean not serious. If we don't make it fun, who would want to do it? JMHO

Ricisan
 
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