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  1. #1
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    First FS bike buying advice !

    Hi guys,
    I am planning to buy a FS bike for an entry level trail riding. I won't be doing any incredibly aggressive riding (33 years old). I just want to really learn and improve my practicing techniques and such in the African nature...

    What region of the country do I live in? I am planning to ship my bike to Africa where i am currently working...

    How much time do I plan on devoting to this hobby? Once a week (few hours)

    What is my previous cycling experience? I do ride bikes since I was a kid.
    Have I participated in other hobbies, sports or activities that may give me relevant skills? running, hiking, wall climbing, tennis, hunting...

    What are my mechanical abilities? very good
    Do I currently own a bike? yes

    Do I currently own a helmet, gloves, padded shorts, proper shoes, Cyclocomputer, Finish line bike wash, Finishline brush kit, shop rags, chain lube, chain stay protector (I like Shelter), Gloves, good socks, solid tire pressure gauge, floor tire pump, on trail tire pump or cartridges, shock pump, good three way hex, mufti tool, spare bottles, cages, backpack to put all your gear in? most of them...

    Why do I want to buy a new bike? never had a FS before. I really feel like riding my bike in the plain nature (outdoor trails) where I normally hike, I want to pump up my adrenaline...

    How much research have I already done and do I have an idea of what I want? I had in mind to go for GT SENSOR 9R EXPERT 29ER MOUNTAIN BIKE (currently sold at $1,400)... I hope it is not way more than what I actually need

    Do I have friends who are into the hobby? What's their mechanical and riding experience? very good

    What kind of bikes do my riding buddies ride? HT & FS

    What kind of bikes do I see on the trails I plan to ride? (Full suspension & Hardtail)

    Can I really afford this hobby? Are my credit cards paid off? Do I have savings in the bank and money to burn? I should be able to afford it

    How much money do I want to spend on this hobby over the next year? let me start first

    What am I trying to accomplish by participating in this hobby? Get more in touch with nature and exercise

    How do I expect my life to be different a year from the day my new bike arrives? to ride 3 times a week...

    thx in advance !!!!!

  2. #2
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    100 views, not a single reply
    I don't mind to go for a used bike as long as it is in a very good condition..
    not looking for a racing bike... my need is simply a durable, heavy duty and relatively lightweight with good components bike... I like the look of a niner (29er)
    no need to be a 2012 or 2013 bike.... not looking for a specific brand...
    for now I prefer not to exceed the $1,500 (if possible)...

    I would also highly appreciate if I can be directed to any of the ongoing Cyber Monday's offers....

    Thx in advance for your quick help

  3. #3
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    More quality at your price area will be available with a HT 29. A used Scott Scale Elite with a dual air Reba would be a good find. Shipping to Lebanon is something to check into. Canyon offers the Grand Canyon 29 in AL and carbon. Both are excellent values in the 7.9 AL or 8.9 CF.
    Canyon | Mountainbikes | Grand Canyon AL 29 7.9
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First FS bike buying advice !-grand-canyon-al-29.jpg  


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkoush View Post
    100 views, not a single reply
    I don't mind to go for a used bike as long as it is in a very good condition..
    not looking for a racing bike... my need is simply a durable, heavy duty and relatively lightweight with good components bike... I like the look of a niner (29er)
    no need to be a 2012 or 2013 bike.... not looking for a specific brand...
    for now I prefer not to exceed the $1,500 (if possible)...

    I would also highly appreciate if I can be directed to any of the ongoing Cyber Monday's offers....

    Thx in advance for your quick help
    Durable, heavy duty and "relatively lightweight". Uh - those 3 don't quite go together. Depending on what you consider "relatively lightweight". I'd say you are going to spend several thousand dollars if you want to go below 27 pounds for 29"er FS. The price will drop below several thousand to the $2K - $2K+ for something in the 27-28 pound range.

    Bikes Direct is probably about all you will find new in your price range (and it won't be light). You might want to comb the European online shops for all the new 29"ers coming out in Europe (brands that are not sold in the US). Again, your budget will be the limiting factor.

    Shimano DynaSys, 3x10 Speed 29er Full Suspension Mountain Bikes - MTB - 2011 Motobecane Fantom 29er | Shimano DynaSys full suspension mountain bikes | Save up to 60% off list prices on new bicycles

    Or their ultra-cheap version: Save up to 60% off new Mountain Bikes - MTB - 29er Full Suspension Gravity FSX 29ONE

    I'd expect that one to weigh close to 35 pounds and not be a very supple ride compared to other bikes available.

    With your budget, I think you are better off going with a HT 29"er. If you upped your budget to the $2000 - $2200 range, you might find some nice deals (examples being the Salsa Spearfish and Horsethief).

  5. #5
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    I prefer to limit my budget if going for a HT to $1,000... I wish I can get a Carbon Fiber HT bike within the 1K budget... any advice is appreciated...
    Don't worry about shipping to Lebanon... I have cousins living in the USA... so I will buy my bike online from the states and my cousins will help me to ship it abroad...

    Are you aware of any cyber Monday deals?

  6. #6
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    soooo much appreciated bud; thank you...
    Most probably I will go for the 2013 Motobecane 29er Full Suspension Mountain Bikes Fantom 29er4BY4 COMP...

  7. #7
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    Well if you want to get a HT then BD may be a good place to go, but when it comes to full suspension I'd stick with big brands for starter. GT latest gen iDrive is pretty good and very plush on the descend. I'd also keep an eye out for a giant anthem 29er deals.

    Take many test rides as you can, if possible ask the shop to set up suspension correctly for you before taking it out for a test ride, demo ride is best if one is available in your area.

  8. #8
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    Find out what it's going to cost you to ship a bike. I get that your cousins are helping you, but unless they're willing to foot the bill themselves and they don't change their minds when they find out what it will be, I bet it eats up the savings from a lot of Cyber Monday things. I think you're better off sourcing geographically closer to yourself (Lebanon?) even if it means paying a bit more upfront.

    I'd also be looking at availability of maintenance parts. When something breaks, are you going to have to ship it from abroad? How long will that take? Is there a level of MTB that won't require that kind of thing? (Maybe choosing a closer manufacturer for a FS, for example.)

    Check out Focus bikes in Europe. They're a similar business model to bikesdirect or Airborne, but in Europe.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  9. #9
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    I have the Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX for $1599.

    Amazing bike for an amazing deal. The retail cost of the components is the same as the price of the bike. The bike weighs about 31lbs stock. I have only swapped the saddle and cut a little off the seat post. The wheels are heavy on this bike, but are quality wheels. This bike has yet to let me down and it actually bails me out with it's surprisingly outstanding performance. I imagine the 26" Full suspension bikes Motobecane has are quality as well.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    I have the Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX for $1599.

    Amazing bike for an amazing deal. The retail cost of the components is the same as the price of the bike. The bike weighs about 31lbs stock. I have only swapped the saddle and cut a little off the seat post. The wheels are heavy on this bike, but are quality wheels. This bike has yet to let me down and it actually bails me out with it's surprisingly outstanding performance. I imagine the 26" Full suspension bikes Motobecane has are quality as well.
    Dear SonnyP, could you please send me your Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX stock box dimensions to calculate its shipping cost accordingly? thx in advance.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    I'd also be looking at availability of maintenance parts. When something breaks, are you going to have to ship it from abroad? How long will that take? Is there a level of MTB that won't require that kind of thing? (Maybe choosing a closer manufacturer for a FS, for example.)
    Mate, you have a point here; but generally speaking or in normal situations the parts that are most likely due to break down on a bike are all universal parts, right?
    as I mentioned earlier I won't be doing any incredibly aggressive ridings

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkoush View Post
    I won't be doing any incredibly aggressive riding (33 years old).
    What does 33 years old have to do with it?

    I am 39 and only started riding about 4 months ago.
    I may not be considered "aggressive" in the eyes of the people that have been seasoned in the sport but I am constantly improving my skills and riding stuff that I see younger much more experienced people walk.

    Don't let your age determine your ability

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    What does 33 years old have to do with it?

    I am 39 and only started riding about 4 months ago.
    I may not be considered "aggressive" in the eyes of the people that have been seasoned in the sport but I am constantly improving my skills and riding stuff that I see younger much more experienced people walk.

    Don't let your age determine your ability
    It is true... However mate I honestly don't see myself racing nor jumping between rocks or flying in the air... at least for the meantime

  14. #14
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    Does this bike have to be a 29er? I noticed that is the only bike you have listed, but you could find some great deals on full suspension bikes for 1,500 from ebay. Keep a hundred or two set aside just in case the fork may need rebuilt in the near future. I would check ebay for deals since you are okay with used. You will get more bang for your buck within that budget.

    A Giant Anthem X 29 has sold from anywhere between 1,300 and 2,300 depending on the part specifications. This would be better than bikes direct because the suspension design is excellent. I don't know a lot about other brands, but I know Salsa Spearfish also sells within your budget. Good luck to you, but if going with a full suspension bike I would buy from a well known company with a good suspension design. Get your cousin to ship you an additional chain, cassette, chain whip, and the cassette removal tool when you buy the bike so you can do some routine maintenance.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Durable, heavy duty and "relatively lightweight". Uh - those 3 don't quite go together. Depending on what you consider "relatively lightweight". I'd say you are going to spend several thousand dollars if you want to go below 27 pounds for 29"er FS. The price will drop below several thousand to the $2K - $2K+ for something in the 27-28 pound range.

    Shimano DynaSys, 3x10 Speed 29er Full Suspension Mountain Bikes - MTB - 2011 Motobecane Fantom 29er | Shimano DynaSys full suspension mountain bikes | Save up to 60% off list prices on new bicycles

    With your budget, I think you are better off going with a HT 29"er. If you upped your budget to the $2000 - $2200 range, you might find some nice deals (examples being the Salsa Spearfish and Horsethief).
    All the owners of the Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX seems to paise their bike a lot...
    in your opinion experts here, what is the difference between the Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX and a Salsa Spearfish and Horsethief bike ? is it the weight factor mainly? since the components of the MB are 1st class AFAIK...

    Would I gain a lot in terms of quality and durability for my bike by upping my budget to 2K - 2.2K for a FS (plus or minus 4 pounds is not that big deal for me..)??
    The less thing i care for is the bike brand; I don't want to end up paying for the brand name...

  16. #16
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    As always, when your original post said you want to spend no more than $1500 my mind instantly goes to the Giant Trance. Trance X3 (2013) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States If you were lucky, you might be able to find one on sale.

    I think a lot of people start out thinking they won't be too aggressive and don't need a burly bike up front but end up breaking or replacing their bike in short order to something more aggressive.

    A hardtail is plenty for most riding and your budget of $1000 can buy you a lot of hardtail goodness. The internet bikes are appealing for price, but personally I don't like buying bikes that I haven't had a chance to see if they fit properly or ride well. I'd buy something locally that you've had a chance to test ride and see if you fit the frame.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zebrahum View Post
    As always, when your original post said you want to spend no more than $1500 my mind instantly goes to the Giant Trance. Trance X3 (2013) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States If you were lucky, you might be able to find one on sale.

    I think a lot of people start out thinking they won't be too aggressive and don't need a burly bike up front but end up breaking or replacing their bike in short order to something more aggressive.

    A hardtail is plenty for most riding and your budget of $1000 can buy you a lot of hardtail goodness. The internet bikes are appealing for price, but personally I don't like buying bikes that I haven't had a chance to see if they fit properly or ride well. I'd buy something locally that you've had a chance to test ride and see if you fit the frame.
    Based on Bikes Direct website, they claim that their bike the Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX of $1,599 is to be compared to $6,000+ Trek, Giant Anthem 29er... same symphony with the owners of the Fantom ... I see you people telling me here that the suspension system and the quality of riding a Giant bike must be totally different than riding a Fantom bike

    However I don't want to end up as zebrahum ""people start out thinking they won't be too aggressive and end up breaking or replacing their bike...."""

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    Bikesdirect has free shipping in most cases and their site says average Box Dimensions= 54x8x30.

    Frame geometries are easy to find and compare if you must sit on a bike first. The kona hei hei is within mm of the same size. I lucked out and the bike was an absolute perfect fit. The quality of the bike design and frame will not disappoint. I find it hard to buy a bike for the same price with lower grade components simply for the name.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkoush View Post
    Based on Bikes Direct website, they claim that their bike the Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX of $1,599 is to be compared to $6,000+ Trek, Giant Anthem 29er... same symphony with the owners of the Fantom ... I see you people telling me here that the suspension system and the quality of riding a Giant bike must be totally different than riding a Fantom bike

    However I don't want to end up as zebrahum ""people start out thinking they won't be too aggressive and end up breaking or replacing their bike...."""
    I was just saying the Maestro system is fantastic. I have ridden and raced this. Before I purchased my Giant I timed my friends giant anthem on an uphill road climb against my hardtail using the same wheelset. The times were almost exact.

    It is a fact that bikes direct uses an older suspension design. Can you still have fun on that design? Of course, but I prefer a newer design and it is within your budget. Other brands besides Giant have great designs, but I have not ridden them so I do not recommend them. Do you want to ride the bike before buying? I don't want to drop 1,500 dollars before riding the bike or riding an exact replica. You could go to a bike shop, hop on a bike, and ride it before purchasing.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkoush View Post
    Based on Bikes Direct website, they claim that their bike the Motobecane Fantom 29er FS XT/SLX of $1,599 is to be compared to $6,000+ Trek, Giant Anthem 29er... same symphony with the owners of the Fantom ... I see you people telling me here that the suspension system and the quality of riding a Giant bike must be totally different than riding a Fantom bike

    However I don't want to end up as zebrahum ""people start out thinking they won't be too aggressive and end up breaking or replacing their bike...."""
    Don't trust Bikes Direct's claims that their bikes are equivalent to this $6000 Trek or that $4000 Giant; the only thing that they compare is the price of the components that are attached to the frame. The quality of the frame or frame design is not factored into the price comparison they make.

    You absolutely do get better parts attached to the frame when you buy from BD.com, but they make up for that cost through frame design and direct marketing. The Fantom 29er FS runs a simple single pivot (nothing wrong with that, I ride one) with unknown quality rockers, bearings, and linkages. Giant's Maestro (for example) has been refined both functionally and structurally over many years; I do not know if the same can be said for Motobecane, perhaps it can.

    Is the Motobecane a bad bike? I don't know for sure, but I doubt that it is a bad bike. Is the Motobecane automatically a better bike than the Giant because it has more expensive parts attached to it? No, because there is more to a bike than the parts that are attached to it. Does a more expensive front derailleur make a bike more lively on the trail? Does an upgraded crank help the frame design pedal more efficiently?

    I'm being a bit sarcastic, but I hope my point is getting across: there is a legitimate reason that the "brand name" bikes cost more and it isn't just that the big brands spend more in marketing. Only you can decide what factors are more important, and only you can decide what bike is best for you. Including internet company bikes is a good plan, but don't forget to consider the bigger names from bike shops as well. They're not (necessarily) overpriced crap, sometimes they're genuinely worth the money they cost.
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    As stated, the suspension design for the fantom is not the latest and greatest. Bikes with the same design rarely have owners that are unhappy with the performance. the components of the 26" giant for the same price are around 2 tiers lower nearly all around. Personally, I would probably feel the difference of the shifting, braking, and shock performance before the frame difference. Also, parts are transferrable to other frames. Like someone said, the cost of the bike is nearly the same as retail for just the parts.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    As stated, the suspension design for the fantom is not the latest and greatest. Bikes with the same design rarely have owners that are unhappy with the performance. the components of the 26" giant for the same price are around 2 tiers lower nearly all around. Personally, I would probably feel the difference of the shifting, braking, and shock performance before the frame difference. Also, parts are transferrable to other frames. Like someone said, the cost of the bike is nearly the same as retail for just the parts.
    Part of the reason would be the fact that most bd owners are new. BD's ads is quite misleading, especially when compares to "similar bike at 4x the price". I have first hand experience with many FS BD's owner when they switch bikes the difference in suspension performance is in your face difference. The best way that was describe to me was its like driving a camery vs Impreza rally car.

    The heart of any FS bike is the suspension design the rest are merely icing on the cake. Get a good FS frame upgrade when needed you'd have a great bike, on the other hand get a fs bike with good components you'd get the bd bike.

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    So you know people that have switched from this specific bike and had night and day differences? How about other faux bar designs by popular brands? From my experience and research, the difference is not that extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    So you know people that have switched from this specific bike and had night and day differences? How about other faux bar designs by popular brands? From my experience and research, the difference is not that extreme.
    Bd is not a 4-bar design, and not all 4 bar design are equal. Short stroke/high ratio shock can be a disaster to tune, not to mention you'd not get the full travel advertised. Most fs bikes nowadays have specific tune shock to fit the frame. Rumor has it that Gary Fisher has different tune shock for different trim of the same model as compare to RS monach oem on BD top tier fs.

    Giant Maestro, DW link and many others dual mini-links alike can just be set it and forget it and they'd just perform. Just give one a try on your local trail, hope you can see the difference.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkoush View Post
    Mate, you have a point here; but generally speaking or in normal situations the parts that are most likely due to break down on a bike are all universal parts, right?
    as I mentioned earlier I won't be doing any incredibly aggressive ridings
    Not on a full-suspension bike. The linkage is proprietary and the bearings and bushings vary. Some of this stuff wears out over time, so it's not like whether or not you're opening the throttle is going to make a huge amount of difference. Lately, there are a few newer bottom bracket and axle standards on mountain bikes too. Just go to some of the bike shops in your area and have a look at what they carry and what they can order. Maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty of this.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Bd is not a 4-bar design, and not all 4 bar design are equal. Short stroke/high ratio shock can be a disaster to tune, not to mention you'd not get the full travel advertised. Most fs bikes nowadays have specific tune shock to fit the frame. Rumor has it that Gary Fisher has different tune shock for different trim of the same model as compare to RS monach oem on BD top tier fs.

    Giant Maestro, DW link and many others dual mini-links alike can just be set it and forget it and they'd just perform. Just give one a try on your local trail, hope you can see the difference.
    Hence why I said Faux bar, not 4 bar.
    The monarch rt3 is sold in different tune settings from the manufacturer. While that might not have the same precision as what these major companies do to tune it, having the right air pressure, 3 platforms, and rebound adjustment gives the bike an awesome ride. Whether it was luck or a lot of testing that resulted in this product's build/design, it is a great fit for the bike and I have seen very few complaints about the performance of the suspension and rear shock.
    The only 2 instances I can recall was someone saying it bottomed out, and another person saying it had a little pedal bob. I've yet to bottom it out and I feel hardly any bob in 2/3 suspension settings.
    Your comparison of camry to impreza rally car is a bit extreme in my opinion. Which FS bikes did these riders jump off to have this "in your face" difference? I doubt it was this one, because I feel you would have specified it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    Hence why I said Faux bar, not 4 bar.


    Your comparison of camry to impreza rally car is a bit extreme in my opinion. Which FS bikes did these riders jump off to have this "in your face" difference? I doubt it was this one, because I feel you would have specified it.
    Which of the BD uses Faux bar design, it's a knock off four bar rocker arm(which makes no sense). They don't have the license from any one.

    Extreme? First of all it's their words not mine, I like it though, it depends on what I rode on the given days, I remember Ibis Mojo, Ellsworth Moment(which one said it looks like the same design), Titus Motolite, Maverick ML8, Intense 5.5s, or whatever I rode. When I see one in a group ride I ask how they like it and I ask if they'd want to switch, all say yes so I spent some time to set up the bike for them and we all went out and have a good time.

    BTW, most have switch since then, the popular upgrade? Giant Trance X.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    Which of the BD uses Faux bar design, it's a knock off four bar rocker arm(which makes no sense). They don't have the license from any one.

    Extreme? First of all it's their words not mine, I like it though, it depends on what I rode on the given days, I remember Ibis Mojo, Ellsworth Moment(which one said it looks like the same design), Titus Motolite, Maverick ML8, Intense 5.5s, or whatever I rode. When I see one in a group ride I ask how they like it and I ask if they'd want to switch, all say yes so I spent some time to set up the bike for them and we all went out and have a good time.

    BTW, most have switch since then, the popular upgrade? Giant Trance X.

    Which bikesdirect bike were they riding was the question I was asking, because you generalized about them being on BD FS bikes. I have yet see you say anyone specifically ditching THIS bike. The Motobecane Fantom 29er DS with the FAUX bar suspension. Tell me, what about the Fantom 29er DS isn't a faux bar? Also, who owns the faux bar patent if they had to pay it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    Which bikesdirect bike were they riding was the question I was asking, because you generalized about them being on BD FS bikes. I have yet see you say anyone specifically ditching THIS bike. The Motobecane Fantom 29er DS with the FAUX bar suspension. Tell me, what about the Fantom 29er DS isn't a faux bar? Also, who owns the faux bar patent if they had to pay it?
    Can we please stop using "faux bar" and "four bar"? Most of the time when someone is describing a bike as ____bar, it's not even a kinematically four bar bicycle system. There are often extra bars and links but no one tries to clean up their terminology. No one describes a simple single pivot bike as "three bar". Suffice to say that "four bar" and "faux bar" are pointless terms; doesn't one refer to a patented pivot location where the other refers to the un-patented but kinematically identical (in terms of number of linkages) system?

    Let's talk about the much larger differences between your single pivot, FSR, and multi link bikes and leave the inaccurate terminology in the past where it belongs.

    No one "owns" the faux bar patent because it implies the pivot location is on the seatstay which does not violate the Horst link patent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    Which bikesdirect bike were they riding was the question I was asking, because you generalized about them being on BD FS bikes. I have yet see you say anyone specifically ditching THIS bike. The Motobecane Fantom 29er DS with the FAUX bar suspension. Tell me, what about the Fantom 29er DS isn't a faux bar? Also, who owns the faux bar patent if they had to pay it?
    Faux bar is merely a marketing term, I think started by Spech. They do have the patent of their design that they license.

    You know suspension design ain't cheap or free, everyone who has the patent would protect their. Go on and check out their website, there would be pages of how it works and some even tell you why they are better than another, take it with the grain of salt til you test ride.

    Then go on BD's site, they tell you what it's made of, and the advance technology of each of the components, and then this
    Fantom 29 XTR 30 speed
    Hydroformed Butted and Geometric Multishaped Aluminum tubes,1 set H2O Bosses (Small has no bosses), Four Bar Rocker Arm. Gusseted SL 7005 Aluminum (Disc Brake Equipped) Super Smooth Sealed Cartridge Bearings at critical pivots, replaceable rear derailleur hanger"

    They would also said this
    NEW Shimano Dyna-SYS Drivetrain for mountain bikes
    Shimano's next-generation Dyna-Sys drivetrain brings with it the legendary quality, durability and performance Shimano is known for, all packaged to meet the ever-evolving demands of today’s riders. Dyna-Sys brings together the rider, the bike and the trail. Intuitive gear combinations account for how riders deliver power through the drivetrain; optimized 32-tooth Primary Driving Gear even the roughest, rockiest, muddiest trails can’t shake Shimano’s most stable off-road mountain bike drivetrain to date. Dyna-Sys is a comprehensive redesign made up of a multitude of thoughtful details, features and revisions that together add up to a world beating, trail conquering ride.

    And went ahead and give you this CranksetFSA 10SPD Afterburner MegaExo, 42x32x24T, 175mm

    Forget the Y design it's not even worth talking about. I've been looking at the BD site and it's the same knock offs you can pick from Kenesis without getting sued over, go check them out they are many knock off design one looking better than another, I think they have to stick with the one where they won't get in trouble.

    If you like yours it's fine, op was asking about the GT iDrive design, myself and others recommend Giant Maestro, which is a better design than four bar rocker arm that all.

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    Okay, is a rocker activated single pivot better?
    I hope you aren't suggesting that a well designed rocker activated single pivot design is no better than a single pivot design. There are a lot of rocker activated single pivot owners that would disagree. A well designed rocker activated single pivot will minimize the things it is more prone to than other designs. (bobbing and brake feedback) Also, bikes with great designs will perform exceptional regardless of the pivot type.

    I was asking sarcastically about the faux bar patent because I knew it didn't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    Okay, is a rocker activated single pivot better?
    I hope you aren't suggesting that a well designed rocker activated single pivot design is no better than a single pivot design. There are a lot of rocker activated single pivot owners that would disagree. A well designed rocker activated single pivot will minimize the things it is more prone to than other designs. (bobbing and brake feedback) Also, bikes with great designs will perform exceptional regardless of the pivot type.

    I was asking sarcastically about the faux bar patent because I knew it didn't exist.
    Bikes no longer succeed or fail by the merits of their frame design alone; every good bike will be complemented by a shock that is valved for the leverage curves they need. Direct driven shock bikes like the Cannondale Rush are great bikes with all the pedaling prowess of any bike out there, certainly better than a poorly damped cheap suspension frame with a more complicated design like a linkage driven single pivot.

    This conversation was much less stupid when the examples were tangible like the Motobecane vs whatever. Unfortunately I don't have enough experience with the Motobecane to know if the shock is damped appropriately for the leverage ratio the frame develops. I do know that the larger companies work directly with shock manufacturers to build shocks to match the leverage ratio of frames sometimes down to size specific valving.
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    let's see...how many people we can get to make negative comments about a bike they have never ridden

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    let's see...how many people we can get to make negative comments about a bike they have never ridden
    And you've rode every bike that people are comparing the Motobecane to? The fun part about having rode most every frame that's out there means that you can make informed generalizations about how certain bikes will perform.

    The only good advice anyone can give is to buy whatever bike you like riding for whatever reason you like it. It doesn't matter who makes it, it doesn't matter what parts are attached to it, and it doesn't matter what broad category of suspension design it employs; the only important aspect of buying a bike is buying the bike you like to ride. In the end, us internet folk aren't the ones owning this bike and unless it is being bought to be hung on the wall then it only matters how the thing handles the dirt. If it is being bought to be hung on the wall, may I suggest a gearbox bike? Actually, I take that back because no gearbox bike I can think of deserves to be hung on the wall until it is beaten fully to death.
    Don't you hate it when a sentence doesn't end the way you think it octopus?

  35. #35
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    I've had a few friends with Motobecanes. They are solid bikes at a great price. However I would not buy any single-pivot bike because I hate the way they pedal. The ones I tried lean back or sink in the rear when you try to climb, wheelie or accelerate hard. It can be mitigated with the right shock, but I'm willing to pay for the better suspension. Components can be upgraded later, but you can't change the suspension design.

    That's just me, and also if the rear travel is 100mm or less it's not as big of a deal. As far as I know, that is the only downside of the Motobecane bikes.

    I was probably ruined right off the bat since my first FS bike was a DW-Link Ironhorse. Riding I-drive right now and very happy with it.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyP View Post
    let's see...how many people we can get to make negative comments about a bike they have never ridden
    What's the difference? Have you tried the 26" version? I'm not saying that op had to buy the latest and greatest designs he can get even the well conceived single pivot and still out performs bd FS.

    I have helped many noobs into a rush or prophet for as little as $700 with a lefty fork. When it comes to FS, big brands has the advantage forget the components level.

    If you are buying a FS, consider the choice of frame design not the components package and ask yourself is it too good to be true? Many lucky ones just kept riding there bike not knowing that there are better options out there.


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    I have mostly ridden hardtails. However, I've ridden the maestro suspension and the only difference in suspension I could feel was the slightest stiffening of the fantom while braking.
    I let a friend who had an fsr ride mine and he couldn't tell the difference.

    The fantom 26 is not the same bike as the fantom 29.

    I know how well the bike performs, which is why I would recommend it and disagree with the negative comments towards it from people who don't own it.

    All this does is make me want to go out and enjoy my investment that could have cost me a lot more and only performed marginally better in a couple suspension aspects.
    Last edited by SonnyP; 11-26-2012 at 08:56 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    I've had a few friends with Motobecanes. They are solid bikes at a great price. However I would not buy any single-pivot bike because I hate the way they pedal. The ones I tried lean back or sink in the rear when you try to climb, wheelie or accelerate hard. It can be mitigated with the right shock, but I'm willing to pay for the better suspension. Components can be upgraded later, but you can't change the suspension design.

    That's just me, and also if the rear travel is 100mm or less it's not as big of a deal. As far as I know, that is the only downside of the Motobecane bikes.

    I was probably ruined right off the bat since my first FS bike was a DW-Link Ironhorse. Riding I-drive right now and very happy with it.
    Yeah, even with some minor issue on that first issue DW Iron horse, it's still a very sweet bike to pedal. Keep an open mind, SinglePivot like Cannondale, and Santa Cruz are very good and efficient, they climb firm without the need of PP, with the aid of chain torque, give a little back on the extra firmess of the suspension action. They are not as al dente as the modern dual mini-links but still comfortable. A Modified SP like Trek ABP is another sweet ride with the DVRC shock.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post

    When it comes to FS, big brands has the advantage forget the components level.

    If you are buying a FS, consider the choice of frame design not the components package and ask yourself is it too good to be true?
    This entire thread can be summed up with these statements.

    Anyone can ride any bike and have a blast. That's what it is about at the end of the day. We were just trying to help the OP get the best bike for his/her money. Buy a great suspension design and upgrade the components later as they wear out. I don't care what brand someone buys. I know I would want the most efficient full suspension bike that does not have pedal bob or pedal feedback.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

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    the OP is now facing a real dilemma after your appreciated explicit arguments.

    If I am now to increase my budget to $2,500 (very feasible) for the perfect FS system bike in order to upgrade its components once they wear out: which bike do you recommend?

    however it will be much appreciated if you can direct me to where I can buy it online? I am not from the USA and don't know the reputable online bike shops... I count on the links you people provide me here to carry on... so far the easiest bike for me to buy and ship within the states to my shipping agency is from BD...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakkoush View Post
    the OP is now facing a real dilemma after your appreciated explicit arguments.

    If I am now to increase my budget to $2,500 (very feasible) for the perfect FS system bike in order to upgrade its components once they wear out: which bike do you recommend?

    however it will be much appreciated if you can direct me to where I can buy it online? I am not from the USA and don't know the reputable online bike shops... I count on the links you people provide me here to carry on... so far the easiest bike for me to buy and ship within the states to my shipping agency is from BD...
    Shipping bike oversea is not cheap especially thru reputable companies from USA. They can range from 250-600. I checked with ups and FedEx before for individual shipping a bike that cost $90 domestic would cost $750 to ship to Asia.

    You may have better price overall ordering from Europe.


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    Guys, forget about the shipping destination PLZ ... I will take care of it... kindly consider me as a resident in the USA who is asking for your advice.

    I tried to dig it out my way (FS superior quality frame and suspension system bike), I appreciate your advice on the following:
    1- Trek Fuel EX 8 & 9
    2- Rocky Mountain Element 970
    3- Rocky Mountain Element 950
    4- Giant Trance 29er X1
    5- Giant Anthem
    6- etc...

    Please add your recommended bike here where its selling price does not exceed $2,500.... (I am 5' 9")....
    PS: again, I count on the links you people provide here for online shops to carry on accordingly... thx in advance.

  43. #43
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    I'd observe that bikes 4 and 5 in your list come from difference classes. The Trance is a short-travel XC bike, and the Anthem has a bit more travel and is meant to be a bit more fun on descents. Actually, I got to try a Trance a while ago. I didn't dislike it as much as I've disliked most full suspension bikes, although I recently tuned an FSR XC with a nice shock to work just as well for me, but by the time I get a FS bike tuned not to piss me off, it strikes me as rather pointless to have all that extra stuff in the rear of the bike - I may as well just be on a hardtail.

    I paged all the way back to your first post and had a look - sounds like anything in the 100 mm or 120 mm range fits your expected use pretty well. But IME, full suspension bikes are usually pretty distinct from one another. Hardtails are different from one another too, but usually not that different.

    What have you ridden? What did you like about it? What would you like to change?
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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    I have a road bike and a mountain bike with no suspension... never rode a FS bike. I simply want to jump into the full suspension system bikes....

    briefly, which among my above mentioned bikes is the best in terms of popularity and durability?

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    Andrew I think you meant anthem is the short travel xc bike and trance us a more fun trail bike.

    Op, well at $2500 you have certainly get more choices. I thought I saw someone posted a deal on ibis mojo sl special blend for $2500 but quick google search only saw the price at $2750. It's certainly the next tier up with super light carbon frame, if you can find the deal I saw posted it's definitely a good buy.


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  46. #46
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    ^^^
    I could have reversed them... I tried the short-travel 29er, anyway.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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