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  1. #1
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    Dude STILL needs a bike

    Hey guys. I am still on the hunt and looking for bikes. I went to performance bikes in Raleigh, NC yesterday and got to sit on some bikes. Come to find out they have some old models that never sold (better prices for me). So I was looking at a Fuji bike. Link will be below and should be a comparison link. From my understanding the lower the number the better the bike. They are also doing a sale where I will get around $120 dollars store credit so I can buy gear. So that part is also super cool. I am having a problem choosing between the ones that are listed here. Right now the 2017 1.3 29er is looking pretty tempting. I am just curious if it is air shocks or coil?

    https://www.performancebike.com/Comp...Page%3Dcompare

  2. #2
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    None are air, you wont find air forks on any bikes in that price range.

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  3. #3
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    I haven't looked around at the bike market lately but I feel like the Nevada 1.3 is pretty terrible value at $650.

  4. #4
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    All listed have Suntour XCM 1 spring forks and plastic bushings inside instead of metal. But you could possibly put that 120 towards a Suntour Raidon air fork Performance can order for you through the Upgrade Program for 229 or so.
    But those frames have 'old' and I mean very old geo with 71* head tube angle. This makes the bike twitchy hitting bumps or rocks going downhill.
    Look for a 27.5+ hardtail.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    All listed have Suntour XCM 1 spring forks and plastic bushings inside instead of metal. But you could possibly put that 120 towards a Suntour Raidon air fork Performance can order for you through the Upgrade Program for 229 or so.
    But those frames have 'old' and I mean very old geo with 71* head tube angle. This makes the bike twitchy hitting bumps or rocks going downhill.
    Look for a 27.5+ hardtail.
    How can I tell if they are coiled vs air? Also how can I tell about the 71 geo you mentioned. I donít even know where to look for that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    How can I tell if they are coiled vs air? Also how can I tell about the 71 geo you mentioned. I donít even know where to look for that.
    Got to the product page, click on "Specifications"; this will list all the parts including the fork. Google the fork model and look for the manufacturer's website, go to it and it will describe if spring or air. Google the bike model, find it on Fuji site, click on "Geometry".
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Got to the product page, click on "Specifications"; this will list all the parts including the fork. Google the fork model and look for the manufacturer's website, go to it and it will describe if spring or air. Google the bike model, find it on Fuji site, click on "Geometry".
    Since nobody really likes the Fuji. I also looked at a giant talon 3 and a marlin 6. However all the bikes seem about equal. Any input about those compared to the Fuji?

    Marlin 6:
    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...lorCode=orange
    Last edited by Arapaho; 04-15-2018 at 09:23 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Got to the product page, click on "Specifications"; this will list all the parts including the fork. Google the fork model and look for the manufacturer's website, go to it and it will describe if spring or air. Google the bike model, find it on Fuji site, click on "Geometry".
    All four are Suntour XCM coil. One of the four is a 10-speed for $649, the other three are 9-speeds for around $100 less. He can take the $120 rebate, get a cheap air fork, order it, have them put it on for $50-60, and out the door price is just over $700, not bad.
    Hypercritical is good. Hypocritical is bad. Nice people can still be bad people.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    All four are Suntour XCM coil. One of the four is a 10-speed for $649, the other three are 9-speeds for around $100 less. He can take the $120 rebate, get a cheap air fork, order it, have them put it on for $50-60, and out the door price is just over $700, not bad.
    What about the 71 degree geo that was pointed out? Is this a big deal? Also i changed it to the marlin 6. The 5 or 7 got booted from my choices. (slow progress)

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    The fuji is slightly better than the marlin 6. Marlin 6 is bottom of the spec 8 speed drivetrain and same fork as everything else.

    And ignore the geo matters. Eb1888 has trouble comprehending that his bike set up is far from the only options to get out and ride.

    Truthfully, Id be looking at Diamondback bikes. Likely to get way more for you money than mainstream brands unless you want the latest geometry and suspension designs. Neither of which mean a thing to a new rider. They come into play for experienced riders so they can set up to what works best for their riding.

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  11. #11
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    If you're taking this time to learn stuff then ignore Rakc's geo advice. He'd not buy a 71* head tube bike no matter what. And that's all you need to know. Since he joined a year ago he may not even have experience on a 71* XC bike. You can ride one on level trails. On steep downhills guys put on wide bars to help with the twitchiness you get hitting bumps. It was a design to quicken 29er steering before shorter chainstays and 51 offset forks (Trek G2 suspension on Marlin) was developed.
    Check the geo on this Intense Sniper XC race bike.
    https://intensecycles.com/collection...-factory-build
    This isn't your thing but the head tube angle is 67.5* just for comparison.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    If you're taking this time to learn stuff then ignore Rakc's geo advice. He'd not buy a 71* head tube bike no matter what. And that's all you need to know. Since he joined a year ago he may not even have experience on a 71* XC bike. You can ride one on level trails. On steep downhills guys put on wide bars to help with the twitchiness you get hitting bumps. It was a design to quicken 29er steering before shorter chainstays and 51 offset forks (Trek G2 suspension on Marlin) was developed.
    Check the geo on this Intense Sniper XC race bike.
    https://intensecycles.com/collection...-factory-build
    This isn't your thing but the head tube angle is 67.5* just for comparison.
    I've ridden 71* head angle bikes (I think my first bike was steeper than that, even). They're fine for casual riding, road riding, and that sort of thing, but steep head tube angles suck when you get into chunkier terrain and when you start to ride faster. A slacker head tube angle offers more "margin for error". For one, they're WAY less endo-prone.

  13. #13
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    I hate to discourage someone from getting into cycling, but if that's all the bike you can afford, you should seriously consider renting a bike instead of buying one. You are really not going to get much enjoyment from a $650 mountain bicycle. The specs on those bicycles, other than sizing, are not any better than a $200 bike shaped object from Wal-Mart.

    I'd go short of saying that a bicycle with a 71 degree head angle is unridable, but I would say that in this day and age, that is not a mountain bike. My road bikes have ~72 degree head angles.

  14. #14
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    I don't know, my friend that just started got the Pitch 27.5, and he is having a balst on it. Paid $600.00.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    The fuji is slightly better than the marlin 6. Marlin 6 is bottom of the spec 8 speed drivetrain and same fork as everything else.

    And ignore the geo matters. Eb1888 has trouble comprehending that his bike set up is far from the only options to get out and ride.

    Truthfully, Id be looking at Diamondback bikes. Likely to get way more for you money than mainstream brands unless you want the latest geometry and suspension designs. Neither of which mean a thing to a new rider. They come into play for experienced riders so they can set up to what works best for their riding.

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    I have looked at diamond back (hook and overdrive 27.5). I felt as if they had worst specs than most other bikes i am looking at. I could be wrong tho?

    So what type of angle should I aim for? The 9k bike with a 67.5 wont happen....ever. So what do most decent bikes have when talking about angles?

  16. #16
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    I truly dont understand why 3-4 yrs ago 71 HTA was great for XC but now everyone is bashing it. Everyone looks at mountain biking as all technical, big travel needed and so on. All of which is so far from the truth. Why cant someone have fun on less intense trails? Some trails there is alot of it the the more repsonsive, lower speed control of steep HTAs are an advantagr. Not everyone rides moab or whistler and black diamond trails.

    Also, We were all riding steep HTAs not terribly long ago. The long and slack is an improvement, BUT FAR FROM A NEED.

    My fat bike is 71 HTA and its the reason its enjoyable on my trails. Newer slack HTA sucks on tight and twisty with big tires. Only endo on it ever was being intoxicated and tried to pop up on a log and instead I stuffed the front tire into it.

    My trail bike is 68 IIRC and thats because I ride more intense trails now than I did when I started, took years before my old 29er was holding me back.

    I watch guys podium XC races here on older geo 29ers all the time as well. Remember when Niner was all the rage and had 71 HTA.....

    I also started on an entry bike that was about the equivalent as what OP is looking at and again, never say I didnt have fun on a ride even with those level components.



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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    I don't know, my friend that just started got the Pitch 27.5, and he is having a balst on it. Paid $600.00.
    Ignorance is bliss, I guess. That bicycle is absolute garbage. At least its geometry is not terrible, but the drivetrain and brakes are absolute trash. Outside of sizing, that is a $200 bicycle.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    Ignorance is bliss, I guess. That bicycle is absolute garbage. At least its geometry is not terrible, but the drivetrain and brakes are absolute trash. Outside of sizing, that is a $200 bicycle.
    I didn't say it was top of the line! All I said is he is having fun, and it held up in Sedona. Now, he is not riding hard like you probably do, but to get started, I dont see the problem.

    Pogo stick fork and all, its all about getting him into the sport, and he is hooked. It was an upgrade from a POS Schwinn he had.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    I have looked at diamond back (hook and overdrive 27.5). I felt as if they had worst specs than most other bikes i am looking at. I could be wrong tho?

    So what type of angle should I aim for? The 9k bike with a 67.5 wont happen....ever. So what do most decent bikes have when talking about angles?
    Looks like the sales on Diamondback have ended for now. There was really good bang for buck going on for a while.

    But get off the HTA thing. Honestly. No need for an expensive bike to enjoy the sport. Just understand bikes limitations and find good people to ride with.

    Ill tell you right now, people make the sport, plain and simple!!!! The local clubs around here are the most down to earth, laid back and supportive cyclists Ive ever met. They are 95% of the reason I got so serious about the sport. Here we could give a shit what a person rides. What matters is they are out and having fun.

    My nicest bike which draws a ton of compliments is my Cannondale beast of the east 3 27.5+ bike. $1500 bike which I sold my 29er to help pay for, was making payments in the mean time. My 29er was $700 new (previous years model so was $150 off) and I upgraded over the years I rode the hell out of it as I wore stuff out.

    I watched deals and got SLX 11 speed for and found top of the line Manitou forks on ebay used for $250 (rode the stock forks most of the season, suntour raidons which werent bad at all, just always needed attention after a while). My fat bike I found used for $800, 2011 mukluk.

    Ill never buy some high end race bike etc. No need to enjoy riding. May some day get full suspension

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    I actually looked at a pitch yesterday. From what the guy told me is I would get better bang for my buck on a giant talon 2 or 3.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    Ignorance is bliss, I guess. That bicycle is absolute garbage. At least its geometry is not terrible, but the drivetrain and brakes are absolute trash. Outside of sizing, that is a $200 bicycle.
    Dude just please stop, seriously. Not everyone has the means to drop thousands into a bike. That attitude is what creates animosity towards cyclists and keeps people from the sport.

    Its about having fun, not about treating people like crap cause they cant afford high end stuff. And it has no place in this thread. You would be singing a different toon if you did have the means to afford any better. Better to jump on an entry bike as thats their purpose then save for better when in a better place to do it.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    I actually looked at a pitch yesterday. From what the guy told me is I would get better bang for my buck on a giant talon 2 or 3.
    Specialized is the worst brand when it comes to bang for buck. Giant is one of the better name brands for it.

    Specialized is the Apple of cycling. Paying alot for the name. Cannondale almost the same then Trek.

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  23. #23
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    Yeah, I'm not a spesh fan, but provided the feedback based on real life experience.

    Definitely follow the LBS advice, as well as RAKC's.

    Fun its the name of the game, once you are hooked, then you will know what you would need next, based on your trails, and what you like.

    This is a very personal sport, and we all have different needs, and likes.

    Right now, you are not sure, so go grab a bike, and get addicted.

  24. #24
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    71 degree HTA is fine. If it's twitchy you're just death gripping the handlebars and fighting the bike. It takes a finer touch at speed which is what you should be doing with all bikes on any downhill anyway. Jumping is where a steeper HTA is nice along with super rough terrain combined with high speed like on a full downhill bike.

    9 vs 10 speed doesn't make a big difference. Unless you might switch to a 1x system and still need a fairly wide range of low gears to choose from where you need 10 or 11 speed. Which it wouldn't be cost effective upgrading the bikes your looking at anyway.

    My first mtb was a GT Avalanche with an XCT fork. It lasted about 500 miles before it was completely wrecked with zero damping left. The original wheels continuously went out of true and needed replacement at around 300 miles. Otherwise is was a solid bike that I had a lot of fun on.

    Go for whatever bike you like the most amongst the ones with better groupsets. If you can save up an extra $400 or so you'll get a hell of a lot more bike for your money.

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    Thanks for all the replies guys. I will admit. I am so clueless what to get now. Ha! I feel like everybody said fuji over marlin. Nobody really said fuji 1.3 vs talon 3 tho. I feel as if I am getting repetitive but i know you guys no sooo much more than I do plus there are a lot of people on here to give their options also.

    talon 3: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/talon-3

  26. #26
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    Probably out of your budget, but this is a lot of bike for $900:

    https://www.americasbikecompany.com/...e-pro-27.5.htm

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    Thanks for all the replies guys. I will admit. I am so clueless what to get now. Ha! I feel like everybody said fuji over marlin. Nobody really said fuji 1.3 vs talon 3 tho. I feel as if I am getting repetitive but i know you guys no sooo much more than I do plus there are a lot of people on here to give their options also.

    talon 3: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/talon-3
    Back up a little, this is getting too complicated
    For someone who just wants a bike. What is your budget. What type of riding do you plan to do. How tall are you (just in case someone knows of a good deal somewhere). Do you know what size you need?

    Regarding suspension:íhow about a fully rigid
    Mountainbike? That way, you donít have to waste money on a low quality suspension fork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    Thanks for all the replies guys. I will admit. I am so clueless what to get now. Ha! I feel like everybody said fuji over marlin. Nobody really said fuji 1.3 vs talon 3 tho. I feel as if I am getting repetitive but i know you guys no sooo much more than I do plus there are a lot of people on here to give their options also.

    talon 3: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/talon-3
    The Fuji Nevada 1.3 has a better spec than both the Talon 3 and Marlin 6 by quite a bit actually. Shimano's component names are in order of quality. Of the cheaper end Alivio is the highest quality, then Acera, and Altus being dead last. Hard to tell how good the wheels on the Fuji are as I can't find any information on them what so ever. The Talon and Marlin MAY have better wheels and used a lower drive tran spec to stay in the same price range.

    Like I said in my last post if you can save some more money you will get a hell of a lot more bike. The Diamondback Overdrive that hdparrish linked is pushing about $800 worth of upgrades but the bike is only $300 more than the others you're looking at.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    Thanks for all the replies guys. I will admit. I am so clueless what to get now. Ha! I feel like everybody said fuji over marlin. Nobody really said fuji 1.3 vs talon 3 tho. I feel as if I am getting repetitive but i know you guys no sooo much more than I do plus there are a lot of people on here to give their options also.

    talon 3: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/talon-3
    He should be suggesting a Talon 3 29. Better rollover and on smooth trails and the road.
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/talon-29-3
    69* ht> but long chainstays at 455mm instead of 435 and 46 fork rake instead of 51 will make is a bit slower to turn.
    XTC spring fork will need upgrading if you start to ride real trails. $200 for a Raidon air fork through the upgrade program.

  30. #30
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    No matter which bike you choose, for your first bike you will be fine for a year or so while you learn to ride trails and gain experience. For the Fuji bikes referenced, eventually you will realize where things are coming up short and thoughts of an upgrade WILL come much sooner.

    I agree with the Diamondback Overdrive link provided by hdparrish. That bike has WAY better components and the frame geo is also better for trail riding. For $200-300 more you will be riding and smiling on that thing for a long time before thinking about upgrading anything. In the long run, It's all about RIDING.
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    This thread has quite a bit of information coming from all angles. I can see how all of this information can make for confusing times. I will share my personal story. I started out on a 2016 Specialized Rockhopper 29er. Basic bike. Coil fork. 71 degree HTA. All that fun cheap bike stuff. I still had a great time because I was in the process of learning and having fun just being out on the trails.

    As my skills progressed and I became more aggressive, I started to outgrow the bike. I started to understand some of the basics behind the components that allow me to ride aggressively and why my Rockhopper can only take me so far.

    I believe that if you ride what you can afford, you will be humbled by the experience as you move up to another bike later on. If you want to start out on a Fuji bike, then go for it! I would actually search Craigslist or Pink Bike to see if you can score one cheaper and then spend a few extra bucks on a good helmet, gloves, pedals, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdparrish View Post
    Probably out of your budget, but this is a lot of bike for $900:

    https://www.americasbikecompany.com/...e-pro-27.5.htm
    The GT avalanche isn't bad.
    https://www.americasbikecompany.com/...anche-comp.htm

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    Just wanted to say thanks again for all the suggestions. I do like the Diamondback...just not sure if I want to drop another $300. Also I know I will need to spend another $100ish on equipment. (helmets, gloves, etc). BTW I am 5'11 186lbs.

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    Have you looked at Nashbar? They are owned by the same people who own Performance bike, and they often have the lowest prices.

    https://www.bikenashbar.com/Category...ce:&pageSize:&
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    Indeed, it is not. Depending on your commitment and dedication, any of the bikes listed in this thread would make a great starter.

    Heck, I rode $110 piece of junk from ShopKo my first two years of trail riding. The suspension fork did nothing, the rim brakes were less than sketchy, and the single-walled wheels were prone to tacoing. But it got my foot in the door, so to speak, and 13 seasons later, I'm spending $300 on a dropper post.

    The thing with that DB Overdrive, however, is it's a mid-level hardtail at an entry-level price. There's nothing wrong with it. The geo is modern, the Reba fork is good, the SRAM 1x11 drivetrain is solid, OEM Shimano hydros are much better than they used to be ... even the tires and rims seem great for that pricepoint (the Honey Badgers are probably the wire-beaded version and therefore not tubeless compatible, so just ride them until it's time to replace).

    I guess if I were to nitpick, I'd note the hub spacing isn't Boost. That won't affect your ride. It's just no longer the current standard.

    Otherwise, that is a helluva lot of bike for $900. And they are available in your size, which would be either medium or large, depending on your philosophy.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arapaho View Post
    GT Karakoram Comp 29" Bike 2017 | Jenson USA

    $499.99

    This is the exact bike I own. I put Conti X-kings, 2.3 on it, odi lock on grips, and a KS eten dropper post.

    I love it. Jenson was great to deal with.

    I know I'll probably upgrade in a year or so, but, this got me back out on a bike.
    Last edited by demonlarry; 04-17-2018 at 03:10 PM. Reason: price

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    Here is another option: As someone who just got back into Mt Biking 2 years ago after about 18 years of rarely riding, I went another route--I bought a used bike (found on Craiglist). It took a month to find one that fit well and was a good price, but it has been great for the last two years while I learn more and get better and decide what newer, better bike to upgrade to. It takes patience to get a good deal--ideal is buying from some middle aged rider who bought a good bike, rode it a bit, then got too busy with kids and job and their partner wants it out of the garage. I got a $3300 Rocky Mountain Element (XC Full suspension) that had been ridden 6 times for $1000. It has been the perfect bike for the riding I have been capable of. This might be a good option instead of buying a new lower quality bike. You can google or ask lots of questions here to get advice on buying used--what to look for, what's a good deal, what to be wary of (too good to be true bikes are possibly stolen or have hard to spot damage). I would be careful of buying a used bike online from someone far away who has to ship it (like from this site or pinkbike) unless you get good recommendations from other users and don't mind running the risk of getting the wrong size bike--you are better off test riding a local used bike. Besides craigslist you can sometimes find used bikes from other local riders--visit shops, meet a local bike club group, go on group rides, search for local mt bike facebook groups. A lot of riders have quality older bikes they would like to sell so they can get the latest greatest.

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