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  1. #1
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    Disk brakes or not?

    Hi I'm new to the forum and looking to purchase a MB used off craigslist. Right now I'm looking at a Cannondale F7 and a Trek 3900 Alpha. Which one do y'all think would be better/more suited for a beginner? Also neither have disc brakes. I am just beginning but am fairly athletic 5'10" 165lbs. Do y'all think disc brakes are necessary for a beginner?

  2. #2
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    From the FAQ section:

    "Do I need disc brakes?
    No, not unless you have issues with rim brakes in general or your rim brakes in particular. Some people are quite happy with their rim brakes and others find that because of their riding environment (terrain and conditions) that rim brakes don't do the required job. You will find that as your terrain gets steeper and your conditions get wetter, disc brakes become more useful. Also some of us live in fairly flat, dry areas and we don't actually need disc brakes all the time but we want them for the times we do travel to steeper and wetter areas. Just don't get caught up in it - unless you want to, or need to of course. If youíre a heavy rider (200 pounds or more) you will certainly benefit."



    "Are disc brakes better than rim brakes?

    Usually our braking performance is limited more by the friction between tire and trail than by the friction between pad and rim. If we can lock up a wheel, then locking it up using less power is hardly much of an improvement. But the gain here would be during long descents where less finger pressure would lead to less arm strain. With disc brakes the maker gets to make the whole package - pads, rotor, lever, cylinders - so they can engineer them to compliment each other with minimum compromise. The limiting factor with rim brakes has got to be the soft alloy rims and pads that surrender stopping ability because of their needed softness necessary to prevent damage to these rims. Another limiting factor is their closeness to the water and mud that we ride through.

    But we do find that power, modulation (smooth application of that power), longevity, adjustability are generally better with disc brakes. Disc brakes suffer far less than rim brakes in poor conditions."


    Hope that helps!

  3. #3
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    For a beginner they are perfectly fine. I feel that disc brakes are very overrated unless you ride a lot in muddy conditions (which you shouldn't be doing anyway due to trail damage) or are doing long, steep descents, which you probably won't be doing a whole lot as a beginner.

    I just went from a trek 4500 (rim brakes) to a bike with mid-level discs, and honestly in the conditions I ride in there's really not a huge difference except for the ease of pull

  4. #4
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    I ride with XT level V-brakes. These were high level brakes from 2003 when discs were not standard. So they perform very well and are pretty light. I find no need to change to discs since I run in the desert with little to no rain.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Disk brakes or not?

    Disc is definitely nice but v brakes will do the job just fine. Just ask any trials rider.

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    Re: Disk brakes or not?

    I skid off the trail just the same with rim brakes or disc brakes.

  7. #7
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    V-brakes are highly underrated. They stop just as well as discs in most conditions, except mud (when you shouldn't be on the trail anyway ). The biggest problem with v-brakes these days is fork and wheel compatibility. "Good" forks with v-brake posts are harder to find, so "upgrading" may require buying a set of disc brakes and maybe a new front wheel too.
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  8. #8
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    You know, my current bike has V-brakes, and I can definitely vouch for the statement from the FAC stating that friction between the tires and the trail is a much bigger deal. Pretty much the only time I can't completely lock up my wheels is if I've just ridden through a stream and my rims are wet. Even then, I usually just make sure I get on the brakes early or even preemptively, and I regain full friction in no time. I will be going with disc brakes on my next bike because they are nice, and I have the money, but if I found a bike I really liked and it didn't have disc brakes, that definitely would not be a deal breaker.

  9. #9
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    the real problem with rim brakes is parts compatibility. It's harder to find parts for rim brakes now as everyone is discs. If you're buying used, you should be able to get a disc bike no problem. Anything is with rim brakes is too old to buy used unless you really know what you're doing. What are the asking prices and model years of the bikes you are looking at. Keep it mine 90% of CL bikes are overpriced.

  10. #10
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    v-brakes work just fine and if set properly will lock up your tires efficiently and allow a good amount of modulation. Good quality (this being key) disc brakes are nice though for a number of reasons.

    Are they necessary for a beginner (or most riders) though? Absolutely not. I'm guessing that if you progress past the beginner stage, you'll upgrade your bike at some point anyway. Others have mentioned that you may run into issues if you want to upgrade your fork to a mid-high end model, but are you realistically going to do that? I would guess that you'd probably just upgrade the whole bike instead.

  11. #11
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    i love my big shiny disc's but the V's on my old bike were pretty kick ass too
    for a 2nd hand bike if they still work they will do just fine till the bug bites and you buy a new bike anyway lol

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    V-brakes are highly underrated. They stop just as well as discs in most conditions, except mud (when you shouldn't be on the trail anyway ).
    Close enough...

    ... except for the riding on wet/muddy trails thing, which depends on your location.
    In some areas, riding on soft trails can lead to catastrophic erosion - in many others, the only drawbak is that you need to clean the bike afterwards.
    Ask the natives, if you don't know.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  13. #13
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    Brakes are overrated. Buy a bike and rip them off! I really can go fast on my trails that way!

    But really, they hit the nail on the head. Depends on your riding conditions. Discs are fantastic and they look sexy on a bike. But V-Brakes do the job well too. If you're a newb, start cheap and feel out what you like and want in a bike.

  14. #14
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    An advantage of disc brakes is that even if the rim gets tweaked a bit, the brake does not rub as with a rim brake. However, I find wheels with discs to be a bit harder to install.

    Also, if you want two sets of wheels, there is an added expense for a rotor.

  15. #15
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    A rotor doesn't have to cost all that much.

    Also, depending on conditions, rim brakes cause wear on the rims, so you may have to get new rims or wheels earlier. The more mud and grit you have between rim and pad, the more quicky your rims wear down.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  16. #16
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    As so many people have stated - conditions are very important.

    I'd suggest that how fussy you are about modulation (if you're relatively green, probably not much) will also be a factor - a good set of properly adjusted (and bedded in) hydraulics will generally allow for much more control than even the best Vbrakes in almost any condition (IMHO), cheap hydraulic or mechanical disks not so much.

  17. #17
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    Alright thanks everybody for your replies to my question! I did buy the Trek 3900 Alpha with V-brakes for $150, dude threw in some shimano clip pedals and shoes and a brand new saddle too. Barely used bike. IMO excellent price for a beginning bike and as I won't be riding in the mud/rain I'm not worried about the stopping power. The brakes will throw me off the bike if I pull too hard. I'm excited to get out on the trails.

  18. #18
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    Happy riding wacobkr )

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    If you are interested in MTB trail riding I would try to hold out for something with disc brakes. I prefer Hydro disks for there feel even though more maintenance is required. You can def trail ride without them but they are superior for braking in just about every way. I was a beginner when I nabbed a hydro disked full susp 3 years ago and havnt looked back. I learn how to work on it and love riding it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brycetron View Post
    If you are interested in MTB trail riding I would try to hold out for something with disc brakes.
    Why?

  21. #21
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    Congratulations on your bike purchase,
    go out and ride that bike and have fun!!!!!
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  22. #22
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    I think $150 for a decent bike is a great deal!

    I have ridden low grade V brakes and low grade mechanical discs, and I can say without a doubt I prefer the discs, but you just can't beat that price.

    For me I either feel like I have better control with the discs, or I actually do.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    Why?

    I pretty much said why in the same post. But to clarify. Much better modulation out of hydro disks. Instead of just being more of a on/off type of brake you can actually gradually apply more pressure easier. Mech disk brakes still suffer from more of an on/off feel, at least in my experience. Muddy/dusty terrain doesnt effect rotors as bad as your wheels = better braking surface.

  24. #24
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    So, to you v-brake guys, any recommendations for good replacement pads?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by akaHector View Post
    So, to you v-brake guys, any recommendations for good replacement pads?
    I have liked Cool Stop, Avid Rim Wrangler (if they still make them) and Shimano XT (if they still make them)

    The two most important parts of v-brakes are the pads. Don't skimp on them. In my experience, the most significant difference performance-wise between a $20 v-brake and a $120 v-brake is the pads (good ones cost $10-$25 per wheel, depending on if you are getting the whole brake pad assembly or just the shoe insert).
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  26. #26
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    Disc brakes are far superior in my opinion. They stop much better in slop and wet, and they allow for better wheelsets to be used. If you think you are going to like the sport, get disc or you will want to most likely upgrade very soon.. Have fun
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  27. #27
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    Disk brakes or not?

    I can't speak for v brakes to much as I have never had a quality set but the difference between cheap mechanical discs and hydro discs is amazing to me.

  28. #28
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    yeah, v-brakes can stop just as well as discs, except in actual offroad riding conditions. Yes you can ride with vs, and yes if you aren't riding all that hard they can be good enough, but no they aren't anywhere near as good as even low end discs.

    come on people, when is the last time you saw a high-end or even middle of the road mtb with v-brakes?

    The only reason, IMO not to go with discs is cost.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    yeah, v-brakes can stop just as well as discs, except in actual offroad riding conditions. ..
    So what you are saying is people who rode 10 years ago couldn't stop their bikes???

    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    come on people, when is the last time you saw a high-end or even middle of the road mtb with v-brakes?
    The last time I saw a high end bike with v brakes was yesterday.

    It's all about marketing. Here is a challenge. Got to a major company's website and see what they are offering in a high end 26" HT. Zip. Does that mean 26" HTs are no good? Nope.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
    So what you are saying is people who rode 10 years ago couldn't stop their bikes???

    The last time I saw a high end bike with v brakes was yesterday.
    For me it was three days ago... the last time I was on the trail. Did not seem to hold that guy back one bit.

    No they are not as good as disc (though I would take well set up v's with good pads and cables over some sh!tty low end discs). However, if you actually look at what the OP is asking, not jumping on a great deal (in this case under $200) on a used bike just because it has v's instead of disc is just ridiculous, IMO.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  31. #31
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    I don't have V brakes on a bike now ... but when I did, I had good luck with Koolstop pads. Don't remember which model it was I got in my hands.

    Mechanical brakes need relatively frequent adjustment to get the best out of them. Simple things - but it can make a big difference. I'm sure you can find instructions on the internet (Google is a friend...). A good library will also have handbooks on bike maintenance.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  32. #32
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    I'm still a novice, but i swapped out BB7 mechanical disk onto the front of my bike(back doesnt have the mounts for it). I am very happy with the decision in that they are much more reliable in the wet/muddy conditions(which is common here in the northeast). If i go through some wet terrain my front brakes act exactly like they did dry, while my rear v-brake loses a lot of its bite. I can still lock the rear tire in most cases, but it is not nearly as easy.

    Modulation is also significantly better on the disks as they don't come on as strong as the v-brakes.
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  33. #33
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    Disk brakes or not?

    I would give up carbon frame, clipless pedals, full suspension and 2x10 drivetrain before giving up hydraulic discs. They are a huge improvement. YMMV.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    YMMV......
    ........by several orders of magnitude
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    Re: Disk brakes or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    I would give up carbon frame, clipless pedals, full suspension and 2x10 drivetrain before giving up hydraulic discs. They are a huge improvement. YMMV.
    I wouldn't give up any if that. I would go back to v brakes if it wasn't for part availability.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob13bob View Post
    I wouldn't give up any if that. I would go back to v brakes if it wasn't for part availability.
    It's still easy enough to get the brake parts- pads and cables are all you'll ever need. Finding rims, frame and forks that are compatible is a problem though.

  37. #37
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    I wouldn't get to hung up on discs or v brakes. Just get the bike and start riding.
    If you like the sport, you can always upgrade.

    I just got home from a weeknight race and I can tell you that there were guy flying out there with 10 year old bikes with V brakes. I don't think they even use them...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    yeah, v-brakes can stop just as well as discs, except in actual offroad riding conditions.
    That's right. And you also need oversized handlebars, a tapered steerer, 2x10 drivetrain, 15mm through axles, a dropper seatpost, 5" of travel front and rear, and 29" wheels to handle actual offroad riding conditions. Seriously, how did anyone ride offroad before the bike industry decided we needed these things or else we'll just be poking along on fireroads with the other Freds having no fun at all.
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    Disk brakes or not?

    Yep, regular (correct) adjustment is key to optimal performance. I was happy with my v-brakes (I used koolstop pads as well) but the fact that I don't have to tinker with my hydros to keep them working well is one of their best benefits

    QUOTE=perttime;10460713]I don't have V brakes on a bike now ... but when I did, I had good luck with Koolstop pads. Don't remember which model it was I got in my hands.

    Mechanical brakes need relatively frequent adjustment to get the best out of them. Simple things - but it can make a big difference. I'm sure you can find instructions on the internet (Google is a friend...). A good library will also have handbooks on bike maintenance.[/QUOTE]




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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    That's right. And you also need oversized handlebars, a tapered steerer, 2x10 drivetrain, 15mm through axles, a dropper seatpost, 5" of travel front and rear, and 29" wheels to handle actual offroad riding conditions. Seriously, how did anyone ride offroad before the bike industry decided we needed these things or else we'll just be poking along on fireroads with the other Freds having no fun at all.
    Oh, those were very dark times. I started riding MTBs in 1992. Fully rigid bikes with 7sp cassettes and canti brakes. Yes, we were lucky to be able to handle paved bike paths..........Some people tipped over with their toe clips.

    Then around 2006, when rear suspension was refined and clipless pedals and disc brakes were perfected suddenly people could ride singletrack trails. WOW! the sport changed.

    Gosh...and to think I wasted so many years riding rigid and hardtail bikes. I though I was having fun...I was such a fool

    But I know better now.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
    Then around 2006, when rear suspension was refined and clipless pedals and disc brakes were perfected suddenly people could ride singletrack trails. WOW!
    Good thing I didn't know that when I rode singletrack trails as a kid in 1970s: singlespeed, coaster brake and banana saddle

    I wasted a lot of money getting myself a FS bike. Then I realised I had more fun when I did all the work on a hardtail or a rigid singlespeed.
    I did get disc brakes and clipless pedals, though.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  42. #42
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    When I started in 1997, mountain biking just plain sucked. I was miserable several times a week for 6 years until I finally got disc brakes. Riding the mountains of western VA and NC, WV, Sierra Nevada around Tahoe, The Rockies around Breckenridge, The Tetons, Fruita, Moab, it all just sucked. That's probably why nobody started riding any of this stuff until disc brakes came out.

    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    That's right. And you also need oversized handlebars, a tapered steerer, 2x10 drivetrain, 15mm through axles, a dropper seatpost, 5" of travel front and rear, and 29" wheels to handle actual offroad riding conditions. Seriously, how did anyone ride offroad before the bike industry decided we needed these things or else we'll just be poking along on fireroads with the other Freds having no fun at all.
    Hmm so I guess I can't ride off road with my 26" HT with v-brakes, 23" handle bars, straight steer, 3x9 drivetrain, 9mm QR, fixed seat post 24 lbs XT equipped bike I built in 2003. Thanks for telling me that I never would have known.

    You know this is really silly. My 10 year old bikes was built well and carefully spec'ed out. I built to be fast and tackle any all terrain although I never intended to do jump and super fast down hill stuff. I did one day a ski resort doing chair lift rides and it never really like it much. So when time came to build new bike jumps and lift assisted gravity rides were not in my plan. However climbs and steep rocky descents, rock gardens while negotiating tight twisting single track were.

    Progress is not all bad, but that does not make bikes with older technology unusable or obsolete.
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  44. #44
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    ^^^ Doesn't understand sarcasm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by moefosho View Post
    ^^^ Doesn't understand sarcasm...
    I understand the sarcasm of that post. It is you that did not understand mine right back.
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  46. #46
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    Do you need disk brakes? No but they are great if you ride in foul weather most of the time or if you bend your wheel, having said that I'll never go back to v brakes.

    Cool stop pads are one of the best out there, use them on the roadie.

  47. #47
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    Disk brakes or not?

    Do not listen to all the V-brake cavemen telling you to live free and ride without discs. Other than front suspension, discs are the single most important advancement in trail bike technology. Ever. Seriously.

    If you have a bike with V-brakes, fine. Ride what you love. But if you are buying a new bike, or a new used bike, by all means get one with hydraulic discs.

    Most of what you read here, including this comment, is an opinion .... But trust me on this one: Hydraulic discs are better. Way better.

  48. #48
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    IMO... the disc brakes are- 1- much easier to use, one finger 2- deliver the power better 3- handle all conditions. But, nobody needs them.................

  49. #49
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    Disc > V
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  50. #50
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    V brakes are the way to go. I am in the process of removing the discs from my car for the far superior performance offered.




    #edit# - not needed on anybike, but a worthwhile upgrade eventually

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