1. The most important thing about buying a new bike is to make sure it fits. The only way you'll know if the bike is right for you is to size up the bike and make sure that the bike's geometry matches your body's geometry. Ask questions and do some research.
mtn. biking 101
2. If possible, try to find a shop that will let you demo the bike on real dirt. Five minutes in a parking lot won't cut it. You wouldn't buy a car without a real world test drive, and a bike should be no different.
3. Don't belive the hype. Just because your favorite rider or best friend rides a certain bike, that doesn't mean that's the best one for you. Have an open mind and be realistic about your needs and ability.
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Chain ?

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    61

    Chain ?

    Hey Everybody. I have a chain question posted in the Drivetrain forum But I'm thinking this is a good place to ask as well. Soooo I soaked my chain in citrus degreaser for an hour, rinsed it in water, set it out to dry for a couple of hours, went to put it on my bike and it had rust on it around the rollers..Ooops. I set it out, lubed it, ran it through a rag, It looks ok But ? Once it gets rust inside the rollers will it work out with lube? Or should I trash it ? Thank You..

  2. #2
    local trails rider
    Reputation: perttime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    11,862
    Put it on your bike and see how it goes. If your lube is liquid, you could apply it again to soak more into the internals of the chain.

    What is on the inside matters. What is on the outside is pretty irrelevant, as long as it isn't causing noise or making the chain stiff.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  3. #3
    One Gear
    Reputation: .40AET's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,044
    Don't worry about it. Keep putting oil in and riding. I've had SRAM chains rust on the car ride home from the trails when riding in the snow. Next time dry it completely and oil it right away.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,171
    I've never been keen on the idea of water-based degreasers. I used gasoline and got about 1100 mi from my chain.

    I got a new chain and now I am soaking it in "dry" chain lube. I want to replace the grease I wash out of the internals with something. Remove the chain, put it in a large tin can, dump in couple of ounces of lube, and swish it around for a few minutes.

    I was using Rock & Roll Blue, but that was rather expensive. Lately I have been using Dupont motorcycle chain lube from Wal-mart.
    DuPont? TeflonŽ Chain-Saver Lubricant
    They just have the aerosol can, but I see it is available in other forms including 5-gal buckets!
    Last edited by DennisF; 01-19-2013 at 09:10 AM.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    61
    Hey Thanx Guys.

  6. #6
    local trails rider
    Reputation: perttime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    11,862
    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    I got a new chain and now I am soaking it in "dry" chain lube. I want to replace the grease I wash out of the internals with something.
    Why on earth would you remove "the grease" from the internals?

    According to all the chain manufacturers that I know of, it is the best lubricant for the internals, as long as it lasts.
    (for a new chain, I wipe it off the outsides and put some waxy lube on to seal it. Later on, adding some lube that flows into the internals is probably necessary)

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,171
    Well, I don't necessarily WANT to remove the grease from the internals. When you degrease, removing internal grease is inevitable. I figure that if I use a lube as a degreaser, at least the internal grease is replaced with something.

    The grease that comes on the chain from the factory may be the "best" lube in lab conditions, but on a dry dusty trail, it is totally unsatisfactory.

  8. #8
    Flow like water
    Reputation: DavyRay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    711
    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    Well, I don't necessarily WANT to remove the grease from the internals. When you degrease, removing internal grease is inevitable. I figure that if I use a lube as a degreaser, at least the internal grease is replaced with something.

    The grease that comes on the chain from the factory may be the "best" lube in lab conditions, but on a dry dusty trail, it is totally unsatisfactory.
    First, read the Man: Chain Maintenance

    Wipe if off the outside if you wish. It does not matter. The inside is all that counts. I do sometimes remove a chain for deep lube. I soak it in a combination of ATF and moly wheel bearing grease. That is after it is clean of grit, of course.

    Oiling a dirty chain is the surest way to shorten its life.

    Edit: I do not imply that you, Dennis, are oiling a dirty chain. This is my personal soapbox.
    "Head injuries are pretty high-consequence" - AndrwSwitch

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,960
    You should never, ever, EVER have to use a degreaser on a chain. companies that make such products would like you to believe that degreasers are good for chains, but that's because they want to sell you stuff. the best and only way to properly clean a chain is with chain lube and a rag. you can do this on the bike. soak the chain in fresh lube on the bike and work the chain through the gears a few times, then wipe, wipe, and wipe some more. you might completely destroy a rag getting this done, but keep wiping and scrubbing the chain with the rap and you will get the outside clean. because you used lube, the lube will seep into the rollers and lube the parts that count.

    also, the best condition in which your chain will ever be is when it's new with the factory grease. after that, you're just prolonging it's life as long as you can with replacement oil. soaking a brand new chain to remove the factory grease will just shorten the life of the chain.

    how to clean a chain - warning: foul language contained in this link!

    if your chain is already rusty and you want it to perform well, throw it out and start with a new one. a slightly rusty chain is ok if you just want it to work, but if you want it to work well, don't waste your time on a rusty chain.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 01-20-2013 at 07:38 AM.

  10. #10
    Probably drunk right now
    Reputation: Ken in KC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,767

    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    You should never, ever, EVER have to use a degreaser on a chain. companies that make such products would like you to believe that degreasers are good for chains, but that's because they want to sell you stuff. the best and only way to properly clean a chain is with chain lube and a rag. you can do this on the bike. soak the chain in fresh lube on the bike and work the chain through the gears a few times, then wipe, wipe, and wipe some more. you might completely destroy a rag getting this done, but keep wiping and scrubbing the chain with the rap and you will get the outside clean. because you used lube, the lube will seep into the rollers and lube the parts that count.

    also, the best condition in which your chain will ever be is when it's new with the factory grease. after that, you're just prolonging it's life as long as you can with replacement oil. soaking a brand new chain to remove the factory grease will just shorten the life of the chain.

    if your chain is already rusty and you want it to perform well, throw it out and start with a new one. a slightly rusty chain is ok if you just want it to work, but if you want it to work well, don't waste your time on a rusty chain.
    Normally I agree with your advice. But what the OP described is surface rust on a metal chain. That's normal. It will happen to a well lubed chain if you're riding in wet conditions or crossing creeks. There is a big difference between a rusted chain and a chain with surface rust.
    JPark - 3.5- don't listen to dremer

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,960
    yes, in that case, just make sure rust is not grinding up the insides of the chain. a little surface rust should be fine, but a well-maintained chain is probably not going to get any rust. I have never lived or ridden near a beach, so maybe salt water makes that more difficult.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    61
    Yeah this is the first time I've ever used a degreaser to clean a chain. I've allways done the rag and chain lube method before most every ride. I read the Zinn book and he says don't leave your chain in degreaser for prolonged periods of time or it will cause it to oxidize. So "1" hour is a long enough time to do that. "My Bad" When I went to put it back on the bike I saw the oxidization, took it off "Master Link" and lubed the crap out of it with progold and a rag, set it out on paper, Then I posted here and googled to see if rust is "contagious" cause I dont want a "rust bomb" on my bike.So it's back on the bike and very well lubed " Rag Method " and looks ok and no rust poured out or stained the rag, so I'll learn from it. Thanx everybody.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by DavyRay View Post
    First, read the Man: Chain Maintenance

    Wipe if off the outside if you wish. It does not matter. The inside is all that counts. I do sometimes remove a chain for deep lube. I soak it in a combination of ATF and moly wheel bearing grease. That is after it is clean of grit, of course.

    Oiling a dirty chain is the surest way to shorten its life.

    Edit: I do not imply that you, Dennis, are oiling a dirty chain. This is my personal soapbox.
    My first chain with factory grease quickly got very grungy -- not just the chain but evey part that it touched. I repeatedly soaked it in gasoline. Each time there would be little black particles in the bottom of the soak can. After about 4 times it was finally clean. (I thought it was soil particles, but now I'm wondering if it is not aluminim oxide as mentioned on the article you referenced).

    I gave it a good soaking in Rock-N-Roll to relube it with something and lubed faithfully with either Rock-N-Roll or Chainsaver thereafter, and got 1100 miles total (.7% wear). From my reading this is not great mileage, but not horrible either. And my chain, cassettes, etc. stayed clean with no more than a little light wiping or brushing occasionally.

    Meantime, I had read here more about factory grease and how wonderful it was. But I wan't going to gunk up my new drive train. I tried wiping off the outside of my new chain. The grease was thick, heavy, sticky stuff. There was no way to wipe it off without some solvent or surfactant. I tried using a rag wetted with Rock-N-Roll, and that helped but still felt sticky. I finally said the heck with it, removed it and swished it around in some Rock-N-Roll.

    I am pretty religious about keeping it clean, and relubing with dry ChainSaver lube after every three rides or after any time it gets wet. Apply liberally, washing off any external dirt, wiping off the excess, then let set for at least a half-hour. 500 miles later, the pins of my Park Chain Checker CC-2 still won't quite insert between the rollers. So every indication is that I will surpass the 1100-mi mark this time.

    My old chain was the low-end KMC, and the new is the X10SL. A more expensive chain, but will it wear better? I don't know if that is a factor or not. Comments on this would be appreciated.
    Last edited by DennisF; 01-20-2013 at 02:13 PM.

  14. #14
    Flow like water
    Reputation: DavyRay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    711
    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    My first chain with factory grease quickly got very grungy -- not just the chain but evey part that it touched. I repeatedly soaked it in gasoline. Each time there would be little black particles in the bottom of the soak can. After about 4 times it was finally clean. (I thought it was soil particles, but now I'm wondering if it is not aluminim oxide as mentioned on the article you referenced).

    I gave it a good soaking in Rock-N-Roll to relube it with something and lubed faithfully with either Rock-N-Roll or Chainsaver thereafter, and got 1100 miles total (.7% wear). From my reading this is not great mileage, but not horrible either. And my chain, cassettes, etc. stayed clean with no more than a little light wiping or brushing occasionally.

    Meantime, I had read here more about factory grease and how wonderful it was. But I wan't going to gunk up my new drive train. I tried wiping off the outside of my new chain. The grease was thick, heavy, sticky stuff. There was no way to wipe it off without some solvent or surfactant. I tried using a rag wetted with Rock-N-Roll, and that helped but still felt sticky. I finally said the heck with it, removed it and swished it around in some Rock-N-Roll.

    I am pretty religious about keeping it clean, and relubing with dry ChainSaver lube after every three rides or after any time it gets wet. Apply liberally, washing off any external dirt, wiping off the excess, then let set for at least a half-hour. 500 miles later, the pins of my Park Chain Checker CC-2 still won't quite insert between the rollers. So every indication is that I will surpass the 1100-mi mark this time.

    My old chain was the low-end KMC, and the new is the X10SL. A more expensive chain, but will it wear better? I don't know if that is a factor or not. Comments on this would be appreciated.
    Well, you are checking your results, so you are not in need of much help here. What you are doing is working for you. I have heard that more expensive chains may shift better. I have not heard that they last longer.

    Anyone know better than this?
    "Head injuries are pretty high-consequence" - AndrwSwitch

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,171
    Yeah, the X10sl ti-n does shift a bit better and is quite a bit quieter. Hollow pins and side plates, but saves not quite an ounce and weight.

    The KMC Chain Guide says "X-SP Treatment eXtreme Stretch Proof treatment of pins and plates makes this chain less susceptible to wear caused by sand or dirt entering the chain bearings. This chain lasts". And "KMC Titanium Nitride coating -- less friction, less maintenance, and high reliability."

    I found it on eBay from a Tiwanese vendor for $38 delivered, so I figured "why not?" It looks cool if nothing else

  16. #16
    local trails rider
    Reputation: perttime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    11,862
    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    Meantime, I had read here more about factory grease and how wonderful it was. But I wan't going to gunk up my new drive train. I tried wiping off the outside of my new chain. The grease was thick, heavy, sticky stuff. There was no way to wipe it off without some solvent or surfactant. I tried using a rag wetted with Rock-N-Roll, and that helped but still felt sticky. I finally said the heck with it, removed it and swished it around in some Rock-N-Roll.
    For me, wiping off a new chain, maybe with some WD-40 equivalent in the rag, followed by a waxy lube has been enough: the chain runs smoothly and doesn't collect dust.

    For religious chain cleaners, I suggest reading: The ShelBroCo Bicycle Chain Cleaning System

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,171
    Yeah, maybe I should have been more patient with the rag. I think using a dry lube in lieu of WD-40 would be good though, since the WD-40 isn't a lubricant. Well, technically I guess it is, but it isn't designed for that and probably isn't a very good lube.

  18. #18
    local trails rider
    Reputation: perttime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    11,862
    Quote Originally Posted by DennisF View Post
    WD-40 isn't a lubricant.
    It isn't.
    My use was for getting the factory stuff off of the external surfaces of the chain... and it probably wasn't really necessary as I was going to apply the waxy lube anyway.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •