1. The most important thing about buying a new bike is to make sure it fits. The only way you'll know if the bike is right for you is to size up the bike and make sure that the bike's geometry matches your body's geometry. Ask questions and do some research.
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2. If possible, try to find a shop that will let you demo the bike on real dirt. Five minutes in a parking lot won't cut it. You wouldn't buy a car without a real world test drive, and a bike should be no different.
3. Don't belive the hype. Just because your favorite rider or best friend rides a certain bike, that doesn't mean that's the best one for you. Have an open mind and be realistic about your needs and ability.
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  1. #1
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    Bike fit saddle position

    Hi looking on how to better fit what i have i found this 2 videos.
    So the question is, The line behind or on the front of the knee cap?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycA1...e_gdata_player

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtzN...e_gdata_player

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    If you're referring to KOPS there are two different approaches, one on the side of the knee and front of the knee under the knee cap; I use the front of the knee under the knee cap method.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiRt DeViL View Post
    If you're referring to KOPS there are two different approaches, one on the side of the knee and front of the knee under the knee cap; I use the front of the knee under the knee cap method.
    I've used both, had no problems whatsoever.

  4. #4
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    While I don't have any problem with KOPS as a starting point, I think people get way too invested in it. Actually, I guess I do have a problem with it as a starting point - I don't think it's useful. If I have to iterate my saddle's fore/aft position anyway, why not just start by doing that? I feel like if I've nailed my leg extension (I do the heel-on-pedal thing to rough in, then fine-tune by feel) I can tell where the saddle should be based on where my butt ends up when I hover just above it, with my hands on the bars but unweighted. As much weight as possible should be on my feet by the time I'm finished, so I think this is pretty representative and it also lets me know if the bars are way off.

    Here's an article on bike fit that I really like.
    How to Fit a Bicycle

    Here's an article attacking KOPS. It's a lot denser than the Peter White article, but I found it interesting.
    The Myth of K.O.P.S.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    While I don't have any problem with KOPS as a starting point, I think people get way too invested in it. Actually, I guess I do have a problem with it as a starting point - I don't think it's useful. If I have to iterate my saddle's fore/aft position anyway, why not just start by doing that? I feel like if I've nailed my leg extension (I do the heel-on-pedal thing to rough in, then fine-tune by feel) I can tell where the saddle should be based on where my butt ends up when I hover just above it, with my hands on the bars but unweighted. As much weight as possible should be on my feet by the time I'm finished, so I think this is pretty representative and it also lets me know if the bars are way off.

    Here's an article on bike fit that I really like.
    How to Fit a Bicycle

    Here's an article attacking KOPS. It's a lot denser than the Peter White article, but I found it interesting.
    The Myth of K.O.P.S.
    I will try this when I get home.
    Let go of the bar and see if my torso can hold my upper without blowing any muscle up.

    BTW as right now my arm are pretty much straight elbow close to lock out.
    Is that wrong?

  6. #6
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    "Wrong" is such a judgemental-sounding word. Let's call it "counterproductive."

    When I ride at a typical power output, I want to feel like I'm just resting my hands on the bar and I want to have plenty of range of motion to absorb bumps and dips. If I'm riding along a road slowly and not working very hard, I may end up with a little more weight there. And if I start really working it, I often end up pulling up on the bars, at least some of the time. But I always have a fair bend in my elbows.

    If the saddle height is correct, I think even with the saddle is a good starting point for handlebars. You're likely to have to adjust them one way or the other. The other variable is reach. I'm afraid I don't have a great starting point to share. Since bicycles come with stems, I always just start with the stock stem, and experiment if I don't feel like it's working for me.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  7. #7
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    I just came back from a ride adjusting the cyclo computer was reading the distance wrong now is dialed in.
    I was feeling discomfort on my wrist like im holding my weight with them have to move more the saddle and see.
    might have to buy one of those adjustable stem. since I dont know what bend of bars to get

  8. #8
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    Are you riding a road or a mountain bike?

    For me, the order of placing things is the bottom bracket, which is fixed, then the saddle to where my hips/butt/center of gravity need it to be, and finally the bars to where they make sense for me, given everything else. I think trying to adjust reach or drop by moving the saddle is putting the cart before the horse.

    A standard, fixed-angle stem actually has quite a lot of adjustability. Between rearranging spacers and flipping the stem up or down, one usually gets at least a few inches. 17 and 35 degree stems can stretch that out even further. You may still want to try different amounts of reach, however.

    Can you post a pic of the bike?
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  9. #9
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    I got a mtb ht 29.
    Pic coming.

    I don't really looked at the shim how many are there, I believe the stem is upside but not sure.
    Was thinking of a $20 adj stem to get the right degree before buying a fixed stem.
    I pushed the saddle all the way forward and still feel some discomfort.
    I know is not a touring bike, is a race bike but I don't think it should feel like that, the seatpost look to be the off set ea70. Don't know if turning it around will help.

    You guys have better eyes and looking at the bike should be able to tell if something looks way off

  10. #10
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    IME, the amount of sweep doesn't make a huge difference with mountain bikes. It's tunable, though, so try rotating your handlebars to a couple different angles within the stem.

    Check out a stem calculator before you spend money on an adjustable stem. IMO, they're not worthwhile for trying to figure out what angle of fixed stem to buy. For figuring out reach, I think they have a bit more value.

    Now that your saddle is rammed to the front of its range, what happens when you lift your butt off it?
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    IME, the amount of sweep doesn't make a huge difference with mountain bikes. It's tunable, though, so try rotating your handlebars to a couple different angles within the stem.

    Check out a stem calculator before you spend money on an adjustable stem. IMO, they're not worthwhile for trying to figure out what angle of fixed stem to buy. For figuring out reach, I think they have a bit more value.

    Now that your saddle is rammed to the front of its range, what happens when you lift your butt off it?
    I believe I saw a stem chart but im a rookie at this, it looked way to complicated for me that why I was thinking about giving the adjustable stem a try.
    I dont think I got that one, I lifted but I did not feel any difference.
    I be turning the seat post 180 and see if I get more forward movement like that.

    I think I found the issue the stem is long. I was sitting in riding position static for a while and put my knuckles to the grip and it dint feel to bad but then I was not putting the same pressure on the bar as with my hands on the grips


  12. #12
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    Before you change anything up front make sure that your saddle is where it needs to be.

    Are you trying to have a more upright position or is the frame too long for you? That stem doesn't look that long to me, please post pics with you on the bike with the cranks at 3 and 6.

  13. #13
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    Can you say fail...
    yep the bolt is not long enough for me to be able to level the saddle.
    It did feel better geo wise but the front of the saddle is to high to feel comfy on it, my wrist did felt better the time I was able to sit on it


    might be time to order a regular 0 off set seat post and save about 100g of weight
    KCNC TI Pro Lite Scandium Seat Post Extra Light MTB Road 30 9x400mm Blue Color | eBay

  14. #14
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    I think the frame might be just a little long for me, im 5'9'' got a M it say 5'7 to 5'10.
    Yes im trying to make it a little more comfy it seem that is setup for a full race. but like I mention it feel like way to much pressure on the wrist.
    on the spec the stem say is 70mm
    saddle is 10mm off set.

  15. #15
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    A bike like that is designed to put you in a strong, aggressive position, which is where you want to be when barreling down a steep rock infested grade. The best and cheapest way to turn it into more of a comfort style bike would be to install some "Alt" mountain bars with much more sweep. This will bring your arms back and place your wrists in a more relaxed neutral position.

    Turn the seatpost back around and place the saddle in the best position for power and efficiency (front of knee approximately over pedal spindle), never move the saddle fore/aft/ to adjust bar reach.

  16. #16
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    this one seat post is at the 180 or backward, even that it look about the same I do feel less strain on the wrist


    this one seat post back to normal, saddle all the way forward, I do feel a slight discomfort on the wrist area


    so I might have to buy on of those all mountain bars, wonder how much sweep rise etc.

  17. #17
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    Hello,

    In those pictures it looks like your brake levers and shifters are adjusted WAY too high... That will be very painful on your wrists too! Rotate those brake levers down so that there is more of a straight line from your finger up through your wrist and the rest of your arm when your finger is actually on the brake lever.

    Good luck!


    Z

  18. #18
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    ^^^
    Good catch.

    OP, the size of the bike and stem both look, at least, ballpark to me. Try rotating the controls to a more comfortable position and see how you feel.

    On a general note, upright bicycles are designed to be ridden by someone in a position more like guarding a player in basketball than sitting at the dinner table. In other words, your weight should be more on your feet and your back should be canted forward. I bet you find you're comfortable having the saddle further back again when you sit the bike in that position. The late, great Sheldon Brown addresses a correct riding position on his site.
    http://sheldonbrown.com/pain.html

    Scroll down to the part on posture.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  19. #19
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    My bad forgot to mention about the levers.
    I rotated the bar to see. The bar is not fully flat so depending on the position you get back sweep or some rise.
    But the discomfort is just by holding the bar. I was not testing for the levers.

    Good tip on the lever I usually have them horizontal to the ground. Will have them lower to have the fingers in a straight line with my arms

    Will move the saddle again and retest. Should I leave the bar with the back sweep or rotate them to have some rise.
    And lean more towards the front I think all this time I was trying for a more upright position. Not for a more aero one.

    Do you guys just static on the saddle feel pressure on your mtbikes. I know is not a touring bike but it just don't feel right.

  20. #20
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    Is it possible to go to an LBS and have them help you get fitted? I know at mine people come in there to help get fitted even if they didn't buy the bike there. Where did you buy the bike by the way?
    NTFTC

  21. #21
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    I got it online, the reason I live south I mean south of any major city with a good shop. The LBS is about 4hours away one direction so that mean 8 hours drive and about 80in gas plus food. That right there pays for a fancy carbon part.

    What measurements you need for the stem chart?

    Or might have to order a few stem from amazon and use the free return.

  22. #22
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    Truly, you will get used to it. I'm 5'7 and deal with the same thing but I like the aggressive position. I did put some 1 inch riser bars on my bike and it helped. I used to ride sport bikes (cbr600rr) and it always took me about 2-3 weeks on riding in the spring to get used to the forward lean angle but your body will get used to it, at least mine does.

  23. #23
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    Don't spend any money until you try the Peter White article.

    Stem charts need length and angle only. There are a couple kicking around on the 'net. Some don't make sense without knowing the head angle on your bike. That's pretty close to 70 degrees. Stem lengths are center-to-center. Often, the length and angle are printed right on the stem. If not, you can eyeball the angle well enough - they really don't come in many angles, and there's not enough difference between a 6 degree and an 8 degree stem to matter - it's really just distinguishing 7 from 17 that's important.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  24. #24
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    Good article AndrwSwitch.

    Notice how it says that to take weight off your hands, move your seat back, not forward. Try the experiment of standing and bending over at the waist. In order to maintain balance, your butt moves back. Same thing on a bike. With the seat back, you can bend over further without putting too much weight on your hands.

  25. #25
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    Read this, may shed some light.

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