• 10-18-2006
    P.Jay
    Great guides!

    I'd be really interested in seeing the guide for DMR Revolver bearing and hub replacement, could you let me know how I might find it?

    With Kind Regards
    Paul
  • 10-18-2006
    SteveUK
    Hey P.Jay,

    The DMR isn't a hugely common hub for MTB application so I haven't yet compiled a full guide yet (like the maintenance guide), I didn't anticipate too much interest!! I'll pull the text and photos together and post the guide for you tomorrow evening.
    Peace,
    Steve
  • 10-19-2006
    P.Jay
    Thanks Steve, you're a star.

    I've just bought a pair of wheels based on the DMR Revolvers and have since heard that, although they're good hubs, the freehub body can be prone to quick wear so it'll be a useful skill to have!

    With Kind Regards
    Paul
  • 10-19-2006
    SteveUK
    Hey P.Jay,

    The Revolver guide is on the Everything Drivetrain forum. Here's the link...

    Steve
  • 10-19-2006
    P.Jay
    Many thanks, that's an excellent guide.

    I do appreciate it.

    Paul
  • 10-23-2006
    anirban
    Thanks a lot Steve! Now I can sit this evening and take my bike apart and clean it... and forget about my circuit analysis exam tomorrow!

    A very well written guide! I have a quick question- The alcohol to use to clean the rotors- can I just use my bare hands to apply them? Or should I use a cloth/glove? I was told that it may cause rash or irritation on some people if touched directly.
  • 10-23-2006
    SteveUK
    Hey anirban,

    Isopopyl Alcohol is not an irritant as such (like DOT fluid is), but it is great at removing any grease/oils, so it's going to dry your skin, too. I've always worked with my hands so the skin is pretty tough and, although it does visibly dry after it has been in contact with the alcohol, it's fine after a good rinse with moisturising soap and water. I guess the sensible thing to do is to wear latex gloves when working with any maintenance chemicals, or even with the greases/oils/waxes used to lube stuff up. However, if you try using them when you're rubbing a rotor down they'll probably get shredded pretty quickly. If you're concerned about irritation, or know that you have particularly sensitive skin, just use a heavy cloth to apply the alcohol.
    I'm no dermatologist so, beyond what I've said here, I'm not really qualified to advise you directly on this, I'm sure you'll understand.
    Peace,
    Steve
  • 10-23-2006
    atvsmurf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SteveUK
    put the grease on the end of the bolt you're threading in and it will be evenly spread by the action of threading the bolt in.

    If the bolt hole is not open on the back, then smear the grease on the threads, a glob of grease on the end could build hydraulic pressure as the bolt is tightened and split the part with the hole. I am not trying to pick, just adding to a great post:thumbsup:
  • 10-23-2006
    SteveUK
    Cheers for that, atvsmurf; it's a good point, although remember that bike parts are almost all bolted at a relatively low torque.
    Have you actually experienced this? Even working on motor vehicles for several years, it's not something I've ever seen.

    Remember that you're only greasing threads to act as a protective layer against corrosion and to aid the removal of bolts at a later date; so just smear on a small dab.
    Peace,
    Steve
  • 10-23-2006
    journey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Thrasher
    ... I didn't opt for the chain cleaning machine (powerlink) and decided to clean with the chain on. ... I have a chain removal tool I found in my tool box but it's been a good 23 years or so ...

    Edit after looking at my chain I think it would be much better to remove it. It looks like I've got Shimano HG 53 chain on both bikes. From what I've read I just need to remove the main linkage pin. Since I already have the tool I may as well invest in a chain cleaning device. I guess you just need to use a new pin when putting the chain back on. Any suggestions on chain cleaning devices?

    While a really dirty chain can affect shifting, the primary purpose in cleaning a chain is to reduce wear. A woren chain becomes longer, which in turn wears out cassettes & chainrings much more quickly. Chain wear occurs on the 'inside' of a chain between the surface areas of the 'pin' and 'roller' that goes around the pin (two pin/roller combinations per link). Wiping down a chain does not help clean the inside of the chain. To clean the chain, it needs to be emersed in a de-greaser to removed the dirt & muck from the inside surfaces.

    Most articles I read suggest that removing the chaining and cleaning it as suggested above (i.e., shake in mineral spirits, simply green, orange based degreaser, etc., rinse & shake again) cleans the chain best. The next best is using a chain cleaning tool. Once you let the chain dry, then you apply lubricant & give it time to get get inside the chain. Then you wipe it down, removing as much extra lubricant as you can -- the more lubricant you leave on, the more dirt that till be attracked.

    As far as removing a chain by pulling the pin & reinserting it, doing this will weaken your chain some, although YMMV. If you do this, I would recommend practicing it on an old chain -- if you do not have one, ask a LBS for some extra links for practice. There's nothing like attempting to put a popped chain back together while sitting on the site of trail--practicing ahead of time helps ;-)

    Many chain vendors now sell some version of a SRAM's quick link (or is it power link?), which is a link that is designed to come apart more easily. The SRAM version does not require tools if you know the secret handshake ;-) Not all 9-speed chains have the exact same width--SRAM chains are slightly wider than the Shimano chains. KMC chains are the same width as Shimano chains, so if you got one of the KMC quick links (I forget the exact name), you should be able to use it on a Shimano chain (SRAM quick links may work with Shimano chains but I have never tried it).
  • 10-24-2006
    SteveUK
    The KMC 'Missing Link' is not like the SRAM Powerlink. It works in the same way to connect a chain when it is first put on a bike, but does not come apart again without popping the pin. I alternate between two chains; a Shimano XTR/Dura-Ace and a KMC X9 and use a SRAM 9spd Powerlink with both of them. For what it's worth, I highly recommend the KMC X9; it out-performs the XTR noticably. Time will tell if it is as durable.
  • 10-24-2006
    journey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SteveUK
    The KMC 'Missing Link' is not like the SRAM Powerlink. It works in the same way to connect a chain when it is first put on a bike, but does not come apart again without popping the pin. I alternate between two chains; a Shimano XTR/Dura-Ace and a KMC X9 and use a SRAM 9spd Powerlink with both of them. For what it's worth, I highly recommend the KMC X9; it out-performs the XTR noticably. Time will tell if it is as durable.

    Regarding the KMC missing link, did you read somewhere that it is only intended to be put together only once? It does go together differently than most other quick links such as SRAM's or Connex's in that in order to get it to 'set', you have to apply tension on the chain whereas, most of the others just slide together.

    Anyway, the KMC missing link will come apart using a pair needle nose plyers -- I have done it several times now. Its not as easy to pull apart as the Connex or SRAM but it works and should be more reliable than pulling & replacing a pin back into an Shimano / KMC chain.

    Also, are you using an X9 (has 'silver' coating only on the outer plates) or an X9.99 chain (has 'silver' coating on inner & outer plates)? When I purchased my KMC, my LBS only had the X9.99 in stock (more $$ of course).
  • 10-24-2006
    SteveUK
    1 Attachment(s)
    I read on the instruction leaflet supplied with my X9 that the Missing Link is intended to make initially fitting the chain easier, ie. no tools, but that to split the chain in future one must use a normal chain-pin removal tool. I turned the spare links and the Missing Link into a rather nice key-ring....

    Attachment 209101

    I use the X9.92 with the black inner plates. They're usually the same price as the XTR.
    Peace,
    Steve
  • 10-24-2006
    atvsmurf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SteveUK
    Have you actually experienced this? Even working on motor vehicles for several years, it's not something I've ever seen.

    Remember that you're only greasing threads to act as a protective layer against corrosion and to aid the removal of bolts at a later date; so just smear on a small dab.
    Peace,
    Steve

    Once, well actually twice...back in the eighties, on an old work truck. I was changing a flat tire and put a large dab of grease in the lug nuts (closed ended) and torqued the first one and it popped, well I never thought of the grease doing that so I tightened another and it popped.:eek: So I figured out what was happening. The strange thing is that it didn't take much torque at all. I figure aluminum would be even easier to split.
  • 11-15-2006
    ZenZhu
    As a newbie that is trying to pick up the skills for maintenance/repair as the need arises, I'd like to tell my fellow newbies to fear not. You definitely want to work within your current skill range. If it looks like too big a task to tackle, you may want to contact your LBS. Better yet, find one that might let you sit in on what they're doing. If you have a local bike group, bike coalition, etc., that you're familiar with, you may be able to find someone in that organization that would be willing to walk you through what you need in exchange for a fee, meal, case of beer, whatever.

    But as far as routine cleaning and troubleshooting small problems, don't fear the challenge. Personally, I'm finding cleaning my bike to be pleasant. After I ride a trail, I set it up at home and give it a good wipe-down at the very least. I also check for stress and such. I also run through the gears and all just to see if anything sounds funny.

    As you get a feel for routine and basic maintenance, you might start tackling some smaller problems as they come up. Tonight I noticed my chain was catching in 7th gear in the rear. When I got back, I set it up and just kind of ran it through a few revolutions. It turned out one of the cogs on the 6th gear was catching the chain and tugging on it as it hit that point in the revolution. I first thought it might be bent, but I couldn't see any evidence that it was. So, the first thing I did was give the chain and cassette a good cleaning, but that didn't quite alleviate the problem. I put a little lube on the chain and that helped some, but it was still catching. So, I figured I'd be a little ballsy and rotate the tension knob on the derailleur. I guess it had gotten a little off and was pushing the chain against the 6th gear wheel when in 7th gear. I finished up, took it down the street, and everything seemed kosher.

    The feeling was very satisfying, and just the chance to kind of chill out in the garage with the rain, a CD of classical music, and my bike was very relaxing. Of course, if it had turned out to be something over my head, I would have referred it to my LBS. No point in learning the hard.. and expensive way by having to haul your bike in after you mangled it in your efforts. Start small and easy and the skills will come in time. But, sometimes it pays to go out on a limb and say, "Let's see if I can fix the problem if I do.... THIS..."

    Maintenance and repairs can seem intimidating at first, but start small and learn from those more skilled when you can.. and someday you'll be the ones writing these articles instead of reading them. It might seem like a chore, but you really can turn it into something enjoyable.. almost meditative.
  • 11-25-2006
    jim453
    An amazingly comprehensive guide Steve. I only wish I could be arsed to do half of the things that you correctly recomend. You are hard core. Also, don't be so sensitive if someone has not read the (very long) document and tries to suggest amendments. Since the majority of this thread consists of people saying how faultless it is, relax and be happy with a job unbelievably well done. How do you find time to read the thread any way, or go riding for that matter? I have this vision of your bike coming home from the lbs and being immedeatley disassembled and remaining on a tarp on the garage floor ever since. I'm sure this is not the case. Well done.
  • 11-25-2006
    jim453
    An amazingly comprehensive guide Steve. I only wish I could be arsed to do half of the things that you correctly recomend. You are hard core. Also, don't be so sensitive if someone has not read the (very long) document and tries to suggest amendments. Since the majority of this thread consists of people saying how faultless it is, relax and be happy with a job unbelievably well done. How do you find time to read the thread any way, or go riding for that matter? I have this vision of your bike coming home from the lbs and being immedeatley disassembled and remaining on a tarp on the garage floor ever since. I'm sure this is not the case. Well done.
  • 11-27-2006
    SteveUK
    Hey Jim, cheers for that. There are certainly times when I can't be arsed, but my bike is my only transport, so, if for no other reason than that, it's important that it's running sweet every day. Saying that, it's my nature to look after things, and it's in my nature to be irritated by creaks/squeeks/clicks etc.,so luckily the former tends to cover me for the latter!
    Ha, yeah, I guess I could give the impression that my bike is permanently in bits in the workshop, but you're right, it's not the case. I work fast. I'll do everything in the guide in an hour or so if I just get stuck in (some Miles Davis helps!) although obviously that wasn't always the case. All tasks get quicker and easier the more one does them.
    I sometimes waver on my 'no smileys' rule, but I just can't do it!! I honestly don't mind when people offer amendments that I've already covered. However, I'm going to point it out if I have already covered something, so at least maybe people will read the whole guide (it's not that long!) before adding their 2cents. As much as I'm pleased for the guide to develop over time, as it has, I'd prefer not to have a stream of repeated info for people to wade through. I also tend to not beat around the bush, so sometimes my being direct can be mistaken for being annoyed/irritated. It's really not so; I'm a cheery kind of guy, truely!
    I enjoy working on my bike and I also like to share what I've learned. This guide came about because there were so many people asking about getting started with maintenance and their concerns about keeping stuff cleaned and well lubed. I like the fact that so may people want to look after their own bike rather than wheel it to the shop every time something needs doing, and it only takes a small amount of knowledge and confidence to de-mystify things like rear derailleur and kick-start one's inner-wrench, so I'll admit to getting slightly frustrated when posts appear telling people to avoid doing things themselves and I'll offer no apologies for that.
    Again, cheers for your comments and welcome to MTBR forums,
    Peace,
    Steve
  • 11-28-2006
    ZenZhu
    I can attest to the "inner wrench" thing. As I try my hand at new things, such as degreasing and lubing, partially disassembling the rear derailleur (just taking the pannel off to get the sprockets free to clean), adjusting disc brakes (which I think my LBS misaligned) and swapping out stems, I start to find it more and more pittiable that there isn't something I can spend about an hour doing each evening. It's very pleasant to be out in the garage, a CD of classical music on, listening to the wind or rain while tinkering with my bike.

    Another benefit of learning how to maintain your bike is learning how to fix something that your shop may have messed up. Newbies like myself probably tend to consider the folks at an LBS infallable, but they're only human.. and sometimes things get overlooked during a time when lots of orders are coming in, or the person putting your bike together may have a different preference for something and put it back on differently than you would. In my case, I noticed my disc brakes were rubbing a bit too much. When I took a look at them, I noticed that my LBS had put them on with the rotor rubbing against the mobile pad.... which meant that it bent the rotor toward the immobile pad whenever I applied my brakes. I figured this was probably not a good thing, even though it makes it easier to adjust the amount of rub with a simple turn of the inner pad's screw. So, I downloaded the instructions for my Tektro brakes and made sure of where the mounting screws were before I messed with anything. It turns out it was an easy fix.

    I don't know about most bike shops, but the couple of times I've taken mine back to the shop where I bought it, anything that had to be taken off gets reattached based on the mechanic's personal preferences. For example, my brake and gear levers always come back angled about 80 degrees down.... basically pointing down at the ground. So, knowing how to tweak your bike back the way you want it when you get it back from the shop for more serious work helps you keep the bike configured and operating to your personal preferences.

    As you progress from newbie to a more proficient rider, you'll also probably find yourself wanting to swap out pedals, tires, saddles and other parts. Sometimes this will be because the factory-issue parts don't meet your needs. Other times this will be because the factory-issue parts don't hold up all that well. Really, if you do the math on the cost of a bike that comes from the dealer to the LBS and then to you, it doesn't always add up. When you look at the cost of quality parts, you start to wonder how they can sell you that Raleigh or Trek or whatever for $500 when it seems like the parts all together would be $700-$800. So, knowing how to maintain your bike, check for wear, and replace with parts you need or want helps you keep your bike going and lets you improve the quality of your parts and ride as your skill develops.

    Personally, I have come to see good maintenance as part of the total package of.... I guess you could say the "riding lifestyle." You don't just ride your bike, you train your body to ride well, and maintain/outfit your bike to ride well as.. er.. well.
  • 11-28-2006
    Xenotime
    For all people who has trouble with disk brakes... Mechanicals/Hydraulics... This is a mad link to check out! :thumbsup:

    The last part is pretty sick! Potentially helpful... Geez, I was struggling like an idiot figuring how to centering my pads... :D
  • 11-28-2006
    ZenZhu
    Thanks for the link. Adjusting disc brakes can seem intimidating once you start thinking about it, but if you do some looking online you can usually find good guides. Most of the bike maintenance books I've looked at seem to gloss over disc brakes. If all else fails, find out what brakes you have and download the instructions. The instructions for my Tektro IOs had a centering guide.

    I really like the idea of slipping business cards between the pads and the rotors to make sure you leave a little space.
  • 11-29-2006
    SteveUK
    "Most of the bike maintenance books I've looked at seem to gloss over disc brakes"

    The trouble with covering disc brakes in any kind of guide is the relatively large number of set-up differences between the manufacturers systems. I bought my Hope's used and the first thing I did was to download the service instructions direct from Hope, after all, they do know best. The internet can be a good source for 'tricks', but the horses mouth, as they say, is always the best place to start.
    Peace,
    Steve
  • 11-29-2006
    Xenotime
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SteveUK
    "Most of the bike maintenance books I've looked at seem to gloss over disc brakes"

    The trouble with covering disc brakes in any kind of guide is the relatively large number of set-up differences between the manufacturers systems. I bought my Hope's used and the first thing I did was to download the service instructions direct from Hope, after all, they do know best. The internet can be a good source for 'tricks', but the horses mouth, as they say, is always the best place to start.
    Peace,
    Steve

    Why not add it to your post SteveUK? About the business card thingi... :)

    PS: All bikers that has disks brakes (any),keep 2 business cards in your repair box as a tip. LoL :p
  • 11-29-2006
    Xenotime
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ZenZhu
    Thanks for the link. Adjusting disc brakes can seem intimidating once you start thinking about it, but if you do some looking online you can usually find good guides. Most of the bike maintenance books I've looked at seem to gloss over disc brakes. If all else fails, find out what brakes you have and download the instructions. The instructions for my Tektro IOs had a centering guide.

    I really like the idea of slipping business cards between the pads and the rotors to make sure you leave a little space.

    That is why I posted it up... I like business cards now!!! :D Very useful! :thumbsup:

    PS: All bikers that has disks brakes (any),keep 2 business cards in your repair box as a tip. LoL :p
  • 11-29-2006
    ZenZhu
    I was adjusting my front brake this evening since it had been a little "grabby." I tried the trick with the business cards, but that left a bit too much space for my tastes. The braking was way too "squishy" after that. So, I just used a piece of paper between the rotor and the pads and that got things where I wanted them. Due to the weather, I wasn't able to see how the braking after that fared, but I suspect if they're still a little grabby at the rotor, but a little squishy and the handle, the trick will be to increase the spacing between the pads and tighten up the tension on the adjustor knob that's actually on the brake housing. It seems to me the tension knob on the lever doesn't really do much except for tweaking your braking once you have the spacing on the pads and the tension on the lower knob set about right.