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Thread: @&$!@ flats

  1. #1
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    @&$!@ flats

    New cdale trail SL 29er 2. Mostly street/sidewalk going over a few curbs. Some empty lots or new clearing with chunky rock. First trail this weekend. 4th flat I'm changing now. I'm athletic. 215# but the bike shop knew that. Is it rims? Tires? My weight? This thing IS a mtb and made for this right? It's got wtb nine line tires and dc 3.0 rims.

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    Could be your tire pressure is too low and the tube is being pinched between the rim and object?
    What pressure are you riding at? Also what do the tubes look like? You can tell a lot by looking at them.
    I'm 195 and pinch flat in the first 20 min ride with my new bike. I (same as you) assumed the bike shop sized me up and adjusted accordingly.

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    It might be made for it, but tires and tubes are nothing special.

    Need more information !!

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    Re: @&$!@ flats

    Where are your flats happening? If its in the tread area you just have bad luck of running things over that puncture the tire/tube. If your getting flats on the sides of the tube (close to tire bead/rim area but no sidewall damage, ur running your tire pressure to low and getting pinch flats.

    I'm 280lbs (clyde) with gear and ride a trek marlin 29er in all the conditions you do (but ride trails alot too) and only flat I've had this year is when I was outta town visiting family and rode a trail there. Something sliced my tire sidewall thus sliced side of tube. Last year had bad luck with thorns in the later season one to which deflated my tire so fast I pinched the tube as well.

    I would recommend sealant in the tubes as it sounds like where you ride most has a lot of things to puncture tires.

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    Wow thanks for fast replies..I just patched it up and washed it the last 2 I patched I filled both to 40psi, tires say 45-65, what should it be? Yes the hole is in the side with no sidewall tire damage. Should I go to 50? Thanks guys just a little frustrated I seem to get a flat every time I ride. I don't understand what do the rims look like? What other info is needed? Thx!!

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    Also I don't know how to give reputation points but thanks for helping!

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    What is the sealant called and will it damage rims?

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    Quote Originally Posted by txhillcountry View Post
    What is the sealant called and will it damage rims?
    No just tires. I like Stan's NoTube.

    However, the new version are free of Ammonia which should be good. I'm using both old and new version. I did have a problem but that's just the cost of converting, I figured. Out of 20 tires only 2 failed not too bad. Like I said, nowadays that issue is gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txhillcountry View Post
    Wow thanks for fast replies..I just patched it up and washed it the last 2 I patched I filled both to 40psi, tires say 45-65, what should it be? Yes the hole is in the side with no sidewall tire damage. Should I go to 50? Thanks guys just a little frustrated I seem to get a flat every time I ride. I don't understand what do the rims look like? What other info is needed? Thx!!
    YEP, more tire pressure is needed.
    You're getting what is referred to as a pinch flat ... The tube is getting pinched between the tire and rim when you hit something hard like a rock/stump/branch, or catch some air.

    What were you running before you pumped them up to 40psi ?
    50 would probably be better ... It depends on terrain and how you ride.
    More aggressive riding = More pressure, or you'll keep experiencing the same, and might even damage a rim.

    IMO, Sealant won't really help much in this situation.

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    Sorry tire says 35-65. I dont know what the shop originally had it at but went flat then too. Ok I will go to 55 and see if that helps. Thanks for pinch tire info!

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    Either go tubeless or put some heavy duty tubes in there with some slime....I have SL4 29er and running heavy duty and slime and not one flat in 8 months. Just make sure to watch that tire pressure
    SWING YOUR LEG OVER IT AND PEDAL

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    It also help to watch for sharp rocks and and lift your weight a bit when you go over a curb or a rock in general. THis way less pressure is on the tube and the ride is smoother.
    2009 Stumpjumper Comp HT.
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    Thanks I have it at 50 psi and will see if that helps. What is the name of the heavy duty tubes and slime?

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    50 psi ??!!

    What size are your tires?
    I'm heavier than you but would never go to that kind of pressures, for trails, with my 2.4" wide tires.

    I'm sure I'd get lots of pinch flats just ploughing into curbs and rocks. Paying attention to where I'm riding and handling the bike accordingly helps.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

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    What sort of flats are you getting, is it like a pin prick hole from thorns etc? Or is it a pinch flat (more like a cut in the tube)?

    Slime (just ask your bike shop for slime or goo that you can put inside the tubes, brand doesn't matter) should help your problem if you're getting punctures due to sharp objects (thorns etc).
    If you're pinch flatting you need to look at tyre pressure as mentioned, also try to ride more smoothly and if none of that helps perhaps try buying different tyres / tubes.

    I know people are saying you shouldn't need to run 50psi, but if you're doing urban riding it's not uncommon for bmx guys to run well above that (however the tyres on bmxes are rated as such too). For riding in dirt lower pressures give you better grip etc.

    I've only ever pinch flatted due to running too low a pressure combined with having a large tyre on a rim meant for a narrower tyre (ie 2.5 tyre on an xc rim combined with low pressure and hard riding). Some tires and tubes are probably more prone to pinch flatting as well, particularly tyres that have thinner sidewalls I think.

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    Have you checked the inside of the tire for things like thrones and other sharp debris?

    We still don't know if you are getting punctures or pinches. That would help with a diagnosis.

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    I'm getting tiny pin holes, not long tears, on the side wall. And inhave checked the tire. Rode 10 miles today at 45psi with no problems but didn't go off any curbs. Hoping that was the prob thx for the help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txhillcountry View Post
    I'm getting tiny pin holes, not long tears, on the side wall. And inhave checked the tire. Rode 10 miles today at 45psi with no problems but didn't go off any curbs. Hoping that was the prob thx for the help.
    Tiny holes suggests thorns. Going off curbs is probably not the issue.

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    And pinch flats at 40psi?
    If it's thorn punctures etc then you could try the heavy duty slime tubes etc or go tubeless. I was getting a puncture a week with tubes, now tubeless I haven't had another yet and run them at 24/28 psi. (I'm only 175lb though).

  20. #20
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    I don't know much about the tires and tubes you got on this bike, but it's not uncommon for manufactures to save money and weight by selling you a bike with light weight tires and tubes. A tire with a thicker casing might solve your problems.
    Most of my wheels are tubeless, but the tubes I do run have sealant in them.
    50 psi sounds painful to me. I'm 230 and my wheels w/tubes average around 30 psi.
    Also make sure you aren't getting repeat flats from the same thorn, (inspect the inside of your tire before re-inflating)

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    As said above - pump those puppies up to 50+ for street riding, and work on getting smoother over square-edged hits, like curbs. Get your butt up off the saddle, help the bike over.

    In my expericence, Slime and/or Goo are not worth cost/mess to deal with. Plus, they make patching a small punture a total PIA, as a patch won't stick when there's goop all over the place. Work on getting smoother, maybe pick up some burlier tires.

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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by txhillcountry View Post
    I'm getting tiny pin holes, not long tears, on the side wall. And inhave checked the tire. Rode 10 miles today at 45psi with no problems but didn't go off any curbs. Hoping that was the prob thx for the help.
    Pinholes are not typically pressure related.

    Thorns or other debris in the tires are more likely. You need to thoroughly check the tire to remove them or you will keep getting flats.

    For pinch flat reduction, the secret is to not slam into the hard pointy bits.
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    Re: @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Pinholes are not typically pressure related.

    Thorns or other debris in the tires are more likely. You need to thoroughly check the tire to remove them or you will keep getting flats.

    For pinch flat reduction, the secret is to not slam into the hard pointy bits.
    Plus 1. Run a glove or cloth along the inside of your tire to check for any offending objects. If there is something like a stuck Thorn, it'll snag. Psi is heavy tire Dependant. I can run much lower psi on new higher volume set then on my old ones

  24. #24
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    Its definitely not pressure, your pressure is already sky high. Try 35 psi, but like others said theres likely something puncturing your tubes (debis, etc).

    Ive been a similar weight and ran 25-29psi in 2.1-2.35 tires of average size. Dented a few rims, but never pinch flatted.

  25. #25
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    @&$!@ flats

    Tubeless. Only way to ride. Have your LBS set your bike up with tubeless, sealant and about 27-33 psig, and you will wonder how you ever rode with tubes. More traction, and less flats.
    Last edited by Scott In MD; 06-25-2013 at 06:33 AM.

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    FWIW - though there are a lot of people that will tell you this or that technology is the cure for your problem, it is NOT the case. You don't 'have to have' tubeless to ride relatively flat free. I've been running without them for almost 25 years now. Tried them a few times, and went back to tubes.
    You either have bad luck running over stuff, something inside your rim that keeps puncturing your tube, or need a little work on your smoothness getting over stuff. You DO NOT need to spend $$. You can if you'd like, and tubeless set-ups work for lots of people. But then again, so do tubes. There's a ton of 'you have to get this part' mentality in biking, and this site in particular. Take it with a grain of salt.

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    ^+1

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    Thanks guys ill check the tires this weekend. Last 2 rides at 45 with no problems but ill drop to 35 as a test too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    FWIW - though there are a lot of people that will tell you this or that technology is the cure for your problem, it is NOT the case. You don't 'have to have' tubeless to ride relatively flat free. I've been running without them for almost 25 years now. Tried them a few times, and went back to tubes.
    You either have bad luck running over stuff, something inside your rim that keeps puncturing your tube, or need a little work on your smoothness getting over stuff. You DO NOT need to spend $$. You can if you'd like, and tubeless set-ups work for lots of people. But then again, so do tubes. There's a ton of 'you have to get this part' mentality in biking, and this site in particular. Take it with a grain of salt.
    +2.

    Tubeless setups can introduce different types of issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txhillcountry View Post
    New cdale trail SL 29er 2. Mostly street/sidewalk going over a few curbs. Some empty lots or new clearing with chunky rock. First trail this weekend.

    The problem is the empty lots and new clearings. They can leave a lot of crap on the ground that is prone to flats. The more use trail gets the less likelihood of thorn flats since the trails get cleared from use.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    The problem is the empty lots and new clearings. They can leave a lot of crap on the ground that is prone to flats. The more use trail gets the less likelihood of thorn flats since the trails get cleared from use.
    I agree, avoid these areas like the plague. In addition to the usual trash and glass thorny weeds tend to proliferate on cleared land. I have seen tires that were covered with more than 100 goatheads (Tribulus terrestris) from crossing just one vacant lot.

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    Having similar issues, do folks change tubes or do they patch them. I've been trying to patch but haven't had much luck, I end up having to change the tube.

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    Yes these for sure are not nice dirt trails..but cleared land for streets homes retail etc. I bet that's it. Beach after buying the first 2 $6 replacement tubes I bought a couple patch kits instead. So far so good.

    On another note won't lower psi slow you down on pavement? I'm reading run 45 on pavement then drop to 30 on days you hit the trail for traction yes?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beachbrew View Post
    do folks change tubes or do they patch them. I've been trying to patch but haven't had much luck, I end up having to change the tube.
    My SOP is to carry a tube AND patches.
    If I get a flat on trails, I replace the tube. The patches are a backup.
    I patch the tube at home, and carry it as my spare.
    Never a problem - but I've only ever used the "old fashioned" patches with vulcanizing liquid (AKA glue). Just follow the instructions to make sure you get it right. At least previously, people had mized results with the "glueless" patches.

    ... the other day, I discarded a tube with 4 patches (that means I've been using it for years). There was nothing wrong with the patches but the Schrader valve was leaking very slooooowly.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  35. #35
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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by bob13bob View Post
    +2.

    Tubeless setups can introduce different types of issues.
    Precisely. Issues like confidence, traction, reliability, costs savings, more ride time, and lower wheel weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime View Post
    My SOP is to carry a tube AND patches.
    If I get a flat on trails, I replace the tube. The patches are a backup.
    I patch the tube at home, and carry it as my spare.
    Never a problem - but I've only ever used the "old fashioned" patches with vulcanizing liquid (AKA glue).
    I carry a spare and patches on the trail, but patches are back up as well. My difference is that I my spare tube is always a new tube. I don't mind a patched tube installed at home, but I don't want to risk a folded patch failing. When I patch tubs I do it bunches of 3 to 5 tubes at a time. I use water to find the leaks and then patch. Then I leave them in flated to 5psi or so just to see if the hold. Sometimes they don't because I only patched one small pin hole and missed another one. If they hold after a few days they are good to ride. I have 7 spare tubes at home right now. 1 new tube in my pack. 3 new in the box and 3 patched tubes. One is perfect and the other two have minor leaks. I need to get the water back out to see if they are leaking form a missed hold or I did bad patch job. My "good' patched tube as 2-3 patches on it and the tubes in my bike right now have at least 2 each. I also only use the old style with liquid glue.
    Joe
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    Precisely. Issues like confidence, traction, reliability, costs savings, more ride time, and lower wheel weight.
    More ride time? I think you're stretching a bit...

    The fisrt time I've had to walk out of the woods due to a flat was after I started using tubelss. After the 3rd time, I went back to tried and true. YMMV

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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    More ride time? I think you're stretching a bit...

    The fisrt time I've had to walk out of the woods due to a flat was after I started using tubelss. After the 3rd time, I went back to tried and true. YMMV
    MMMV? Stretching ? Ok. Agree. Busted. Also agree that with tubes, a mini pump and patch kit you can always ride away from a flat. And if you don't refill sealant every 8-12 weeks, you WILL walk on a flat with tubeless(unless a spare tube in your pack) Here in Arizona, though, tubeless is very common because of our prickly flora.

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    ...ANd if you don't believe me, how about the guys at Competitive Cyclist, one of the best online shops in the US.

    "We haven't used tubes on our trail bikes in years, unless we had to install one as an emergency out on the trail. From our perspective, going tubeless offers some advantages that outweigh the work and expense of the conversion. A tubeless conversion will almost always be a wee bit lighter than similar tubed equipment. Potential weight savings aside, the real benefit is performance. We used to run our tires with 20-25 psi more pressure than we do now. Looking back, we suffered a bit to avoid pinch flats on our blocky and sometimes sharp Arkansas rocks. Pinch flats were more often than not, a deciding factor in our hard fought XC races. Now with tubeless wheels systems, it is a thing of the past. We get a much more comfortable ride because of the lower air pressure that we are able to use. Slightly softer tires conform a little more to the trail so our traction is increased. Let's see…better ride, more traction, and far fewer flat tires."

    Full article at:
    Review of UST 101 - A Lesson in Tubeless Tire Tech - Competitive Cyclist

  40. #40
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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    Tubeless. Only way to ride. Have your LBS set your bike up with tubeless, sealant and about 27-33 psig, and you will wonder how you ever rode with tubes. More traction, and less flats.
    Or not. Tubes still work great for most riders in most conditions. I do use tubeless, but usually there is no noticeable difference in traction, and little difference in the frequency of flats (which are rare either way). The specific tire--tread, rubber compound, casing--makes more difference than if I am using tubes or not.
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  41. #41
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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    ...ANd if you don't believe me, how about the guys at Competitive Cyclist, one of the best online shops in the US.

    "We haven't used tubes on our trail bikes in years, unless we had to install one as an emergency out on the trail. From our perspective, going tubeless offers some advantages that outweigh the work and expense of the conversion. A tubeless conversion will almost always be a wee bit lighter than similar tubed equipment. Potential weight savings aside, the real benefit is performance. We used to run our tires with 20-25 psi more pressure than we do now. Looking back, we suffered a bit to avoid pinch flats on our blocky and sometimes sharp Arkansas rocks. Pinch flats were more often than not, a deciding factor in our hard fought XC races. Now with tubeless wheels systems, it is a thing of the past. We get a much more comfortable ride because of the lower air pressure that we are able to use. Slightly softer tires conform a little more to the trail so our traction is increased. Let's see…better ride, more traction, and far fewer flat tires."

    Full article at:
    Review of UST 101 - A Lesson in Tubeless Tire Tech - Competitive Cyclist
    That article also says this:
    "We'll warn you now that tubeless conversion is mostly science with a little artisanship mixed in, though it is not without cultish allegiance to certain products or misinformation either. We are always amazed at how much time some people spend dicking with their tires to keep air in them. For most people with bad habits, improper knowledge, or junky gear, they would be much better off putting tubes back in their tires and just going riding. We hate to hurt anyone's feelings, but if you don't have problems with pinch-flats, then going tubeless may not offer any practical advantage and the time spent on the conversion and maintenance may not be worth it."
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  42. #42
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    The specific tire--tread, rubber compound, casing--makes more difference than if I am using tubes or not.
    +1.....

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    "if you don't have problems with pinch-flats, then going tubeless may not offer any practical advantage and the time spent on the conversion and maintenance may not be worth it."

    My experience says the same.
    I've always opted for biggish, tough tires at fairly low pressure and even in New England, I never had a big problem with flats. I remember running riser bars and 2.3" tires at 30psi back when all the shops, mags and 'experts' swore you had to have 1.95"ers at 45 psi and 22" flat bars. There's always somebody trying to push the 'have to have it' angle. Not saying tubeless is bad for everyone. Just saying it's not as great as the many try to make it out to be, and in a lot of cases, converting is nothing but a waste of money.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    "if you don't have problems with pinch-flats, then going tubeless may not offer any practical advantage and the time spent on the conversion and maintenance may not be worth it."

    My experience says the same.
    But ... we're not talking about you, right?

    OP had four flats in first weekend. Four. And he rides in Texas. And he goes 215 pounds, so is gonna' be more susceptible to pinch flats than you average bear, right?

    So, just asking ... are you guys defending tubes for the sake of argument or are you actually making a recommendation to OP to keep replacing tubes at $8 a pop and and avoid giving tubeless a try?

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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    But ... we're not talking about you, right?

    OP had four flats in first weekend. Four. And he rides in Texas. And he goes 215 pounds, so is gonna' be more susceptible to pinch flats than you average bear, right?

    So, just asking ... are you guys defending tubes for the sake of argument or are you actually making a recommendation to OP to keep replacing tubes at $8 a pop and and avoid giving tubeless a try?
    He is not getting pinch flats and sounds like there were still thorns in the tire from the first flat.
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  46. #46
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    ".... the last 2 I patched I filled both to 40psi, tires say 45-65, what should it be? Yes the hole is in the side with no sidewall tire damage." - OP

    That's a pinch flat. Or at least sounds like pinch flat to me.

    But if they are thorn holes (even though the flats stopped happening when OP added air pressure and stopped riding off curbs, and never did find any thorns in tires) then sealant in tubes or tubeless would be a really good solution.

    (Absolutely, positively, definitely my last post on this thread!)

  47. #47
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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    ".... the last 2 I patched I filled both to 40psi, tires say 45-65, what should it be? Yes the hole is in the side with no sidewall tire damage." - OP

    That's a pinch flat. Or at least sounds like pinch flat to me.

    (Absolutely, positively, definitely my last post on this thread!)
    You did not read the whole thread
    Quote Originally Posted by txhillcountry View Post
    I'm getting tiny pin holes, not long tears, on the side wall...
    Does not sound like pinch flats.
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  48. #48
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    To anyone paying $8 at tube - stop the insanity!!!!!!

    Order them online 5 or 10 at a time. 2 bucks a pop.


    Not saying tubeless might not help. Just clarifying that they are not the be-all and end-all of tire tech as many seem to believe.

  49. #49
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    So, lets get back to the OP issues. First , what width are your rims and how big are your tires. The stock tubes are usually junk. I run tubeless on my 29er and tubes on my 26er. If it is a new c-dale, the OP should check to see if the rims/ tires are tubeless compatible. I'm 235 + lbs and run 30- 35 psi on New England rocky terrain. Bigger tires and some tougher tubes might be a good first step for the OP.

  50. #50
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    @&$!@ flats

    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post

    Order them (tubes) online 5 or 10 at a time.
    Anybody else see the irony in this argument AGAINST tubeless?

    (Seriously .... No more. This is the last one)

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