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  1. #1
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    Time to cut off Lagunitas....

    They sold out the other half to Heineken....


    https://seekingalpha.com/article/407...continues-sell

    very sad.
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  2. #2
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    Yep...was sorry to see this too. They just opened a pretty cool new space right in our burgeoning Ballard Brewery District here in Seattle. Guess I'll be taking that off my regular rotation...

  3. #3
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    I cut Lagunitas off years ago...their beer sucks. My decision had nothing to do with them selling.

  4. #4
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    Well crap, sucks this is happening. Guess that explains why we have seen an influx here on Base in Europe.

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  5. #5
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    The decision was made 19 months ago when they sold 50%. There is no way a multi national corporation would take a 50% stake without the option for full control.

    Was never a huge fan, but that 12th of never is pretty nice for a lighter beer at the ball park.
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  6. #6
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    Booooo.

    Very sucky news.

  7. #7
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    As long as the beer tastes good I don't care who owns it. I enjoy Lagunitas beers quite a bit. Especially Brown Shugga, Sucks and Hop Stoopid.

    Dogfish Head is still my favorite brewer though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by canonshooter View Post
    As long as the beer tastes good I don't care who owns it. I enjoy Lagunitas beers quite a bit. Especially Brown Shugga, Sucks and Hop Stoopid.

    Dogfish Head is still my favorite brewer though.
    If you care about the little guys, your local brewers and local jobs, you should care who owns it.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    If you care about the little guys, your local brewers and local jobs, you should care who owns it.
    Well said. I live 15 minutes from Lagunitas (Petaluma, CA) and am sad to say I will not be supporting them any longer. There are many small local craft brew pubs that need my money a lot more than Heineken

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHart94949 View Post
    Well said. I live 15 minutes from Lagunitas (Petaluma, CA) and am sad to say I will not be supporting them any longer. There are many small local craft brew pubs that need my money a lot more than Heineken
    That's not necessarily true. The "little guys" that founded it made a whole bunch of money when they sold it. And as far as I know they brewery itself isn't closing so I'm sure there will still be jobs available.

    I respect what you are saying but I don't see the downside.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by canonshooter View Post
    As long as the beer tastes good I don't care who owns it. I enjoy Lagunitas beers quite a bit. Especially Brown Shugga, Sucks and Hop Stoopid.

    Dogfish Head is still my favorite brewer though.
    Right on! Don't care who owns them.
    When I buy a 6 pack or a draft at my local establishment I am still supporting the same people who sold it to me.
    This notion that people want to show support for local business through craft beer, then get but hurt when the local little guy sells out and becomes the big guy, is hard for me to understand.
    "We want you to be successful but not too successful".
    Every time I see a little brewery become big and sell, I'm happy for the people who sold and got a big payday.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    ...This notion that people want to show support for local business through craft beer, then get but hurt when the local little guy sells out and becomes the big guy, is hard for me to understand.
    "We want you to be successful but not too successful".
    The thing is, is that you don't have to sell out to become successful. So why sell out in the first place and give control of how the beer you created is going to be made and inevitably changed to reduce costs so that the companies who bought it can make more money from it? They need to get a return on their investments so changes will be made.

    Seriously, if you care about the beer, then no reason to sell out. For example:

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  13. #13
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    At the end of the day it was their decision to make. If I am a business owner and I want to cash out to move on to other things and I have a large corporation willing to write me a big check then guess what....I'm selling.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=singletrackmack;13164002]The thing is, is that you don't have to sell out to become successful. So why sell out in the first place [QUOTE]

    I respect your opinion, but maybe they sell out because , oh I don't know , they have a family and they want a windfall of cash so they can spend their time doing things other than making beer and giving tours to people who would like to think that's all they do is think about beer.
    Think about it, I realize most people who get into craft beer do it because they have a passion. Have you ever followed a passion and had it become a job? Sometimes it continues to be a passion, and sometimes it ends up being a job.
    Selling out is not a bad thing.
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  15. #15
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    I agree 100%
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by canonshooter View Post
    That's not necessarily true. The "little guys" that founded it made a whole bunch of money when they sold it. And as far as I know they brewery itself isn't closing so I'm sure there will still be jobs available.

    I respect what you are saying but I don't see the downside.
    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    Right on! Don't care who owns them.
    When I buy a 6 pack or a draft at my local establishment I am still supporting the same people who sold it to me.
    This notion that people want to show support for local business through craft beer, then get but hurt when the local little guy sells out and becomes the big guy, is hard for me to understand.
    "We want you to be successful but not too successful".
    Every time I see a little brewery become big and sell, I'm happy for the people who sold and got a big payday.
    It's beer, not punk rock. It's okay to like the mainstream stuff!
    Please read this:

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...th-africa.html


    Then get back to me on why this is not bad for the little guys.....
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  17. #17
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    So as support for the "little guys" the owner should have just walked away from fat stacks? I think not.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Please read this:

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...th-africa.html


    Then get back to me on why this is not bad for the little guys.....
    Nope...still disagree. I understand that a low hop yield meant less of the hops to go around.
    I am a capitalist. I believe in small and large business.
    I also know that many working farms in the US today survive off of contracts they have to supply Heinz with tomatoes, or Wal Mart with produce.
    Call it evil if you want, but places like Wal Mart provide job and benefits to many Americans, as do companies like InBev.
    I still think this hipster notion that smaller is better is a selfish thought to make people feel like they are somehow doing a good deed by drinking local beer.
    Every time I buy a bottle of Heinz ketchup, I am supporting the farmer who grew the tomatoes, the factory worker who made the ketchup, the stock person who put it on the shelf, the truck driver who got it there, and the person who rang it up!
    I like my local breweries as much as the next guy, but I hope they all become a smashing success and sellout. To feel otherwise would be very selfish of me.

    We can agree to disagree , but the reality is, as I stated above...these sales turn working class people into wealthy people . Good for them! They have families too...
    I just hope the big boys don't change the recipes , then it's all good!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    So as support for the "little guys" the owner should have just walked away from fat stacks? I think not.
    Exactly...it's so easy to think with someone else's wallet.
    "Hey buddy, never mind the mortgage you are struggling to pay and the kids you are rarely home to see...keep it real, keep it small!"

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    I believe in small and large business.!
    And are you then denying that the large business in this case(ABinBev) is in no way harming the small businesses(craft/micro/hipster breweries) by monopolizing a certain part of the market?

    ALL the small business owners directly effected by this monopolization by ABinBev disagree with you, and they even speak up about that in the article I linked.

    ABinBev is an Evil Corporation.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    And are you then denying that the large business in this case(ABinBev) is in no way harming the small businesses(craft/micro/hipster breweries) by monopolizing a certain part of the market?

    ALL the small business owners directly effected by this monopolization by ABinBev disagree with you, and they even speak up about that in the article I linked.

    ABinBev is an Evil Corporation.
    Evil Corporation? But do they have sharks with Fricking laser beams on their foreheads? No.....then clearly not truly evil.

    It's a business....simple as that. And in any business the end goal is to be profitable. I still do not see the problem with "selling out."
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    And are you then denying that the large business in this case(ABinBev) is in no way harming the small businesses(craft/micro/hipster breweries) by monopolizing a certain part of the market?

    ALL the small business owners directly effected by this monopolization by ABinBev disagree with you, and they even speak up about that in the article I linked.

    ABinBev is an Evil Corporation.
    K.
    Nobody seems to be disputing all of the points I have made. I wouldn't consider someone buying all of a farms hops "evil", but that's just my opinion.
    This stay small and don't sellout way of thinking is selfish and backwards.
    Do you realize how many little guy's mouth's are fed because they work for Inbev, or work for a distributor who carries their products ,or drive the truck that delivers them etc. etc. etc. ?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    K.
    Do you realize how many little guy's mouth's are fed because they work for Inbev, or work for a distributor who carries their products ,or drive the truck that delivers them etc. etc. etc. ?
    Which again has no bearing on the conversation. If Tony was smart enough to become as big as SN he could still do all those things. Anyone could. Instead they sell out and give more power to a corporation that actively fights for the destruction of craft beer and it's community.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BStrummin View Post
    Which again has no bearing on the conversation. If Tony was smart enough to become as big as SN he could still do all those things. Anyone could. Instead they sell out and give more power to a corporation that actively fights for the destruction of craft beer and it's community.
    Probably not fair to judge his intelligence. You are making a big assumption that everyone desires to be like Sierra Nevada, and when that plan fails, they resort to selling out. Every time someone sells people throw around words like corporate machine, evil, and the like.
    Craft beer is an industry, not a "cause". Craft breweries and their owners , in my opinion, have no moral obligation to resist the urge to sell to whomever they dang well please.
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    Yes, let's not insult the intelligence of the man who tried to sue SN over the word IPA...

    And I'm not assuming anything about what everyone wants to be - you were the one that made a claim about having to "stay small" or selling out as the only options, and claims about "ehrmagod think of all the jobs !?!?" I personally know several well respected craft brewers, and while you may not have any morals about selling out, they certainly do. I've had discussions with them specifically about it. See also all the breweries that pulled out of Wicked Week's sour fest.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BStrummin View Post

    And I'm not assuming anything about what everyone wants to be - you were the one that made a claim about having to "stay small" or selling out as the only options, and claims about "ehrmagod think of all the jobs !?!?" I personally know several well respected craft brewers, and while you may not have any morals about selling out, they certainly do. I've had discussions with them specifically about it.
    Actually you did assume that everyone would want to be like SN if only they were smart enough, then they wouldn't HAVE to sell out.
    We can agree to disagree, and I know many craft brewers as well. Safe to say most everyone does these days.
    If you think selling a craft brewery to a large brewery is a decision that shows a lack of "morals", then we obviously have very different life priorities, so we can quit talking in circles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    then we obviously have very different life priorities, so we can quit talking in circles.

    Cheers
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    Exactly...it's so easy to think with someone else's wallet.
    "Hey buddy, never mind the mortgage you are struggling to pay and the kids you are rarely home to see...keep it real, keep it small!"

    PLEASE
    What, do you think the guy(s) that owned lagunitas were struggling to make their mortgage payments and that's why they sold? PLEASE

    I don't give a shit if they keep it small or not, I just want them to keep it real as in real good. Sierra Nevada didn't keep it small, but they kept control of how and what it's made with. That is what is important. When big buy outs happen like this the buyer is more interested in selling the brand name, not quality beer. In fact, they need to get a return on that investment in a few short years so corners will be cut to get that return whether it is in ingredients, labor or most likely both.

    It's the name they bought, they couldn't give a shit about the beer. If it was all about the beer, then why wouldn't they just try and brew a similar or better tasting beer? That's what people with a passion for beer do.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr
    And are you then denying that the large business in this case(ABinBev) is in no way harming the small businesses(craft/micro/hipster breweries) by monopolizing a certain part of the market?

    ALL the small business owners directly effected by this monopolization by ABinBev disagree with you, and they even speak up about that in the article I linked.
    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    K.
    Nobody seems to be disputing all of the points I have made. I wouldn't consider someone buying all of a farms hops "evil", but that's just my opinion.
    This stay small and don't sellout way of thinking is selfish and backwards.
    Do you realize how many little guy's mouth's are fed because they work for Inbev, or work for a distributor who carries their products ,or drive the truck that delivers them etc. etc. etc. ?
    You did not answer my question.

    I consider AbinBev Evil and I am okay that you do not. That is more of my personal opinion on how they have done business over the last decade. I don't approve of it, others consider it "business".

    I never said breweries need to stay small to be "good" or "supportable", but selling out to a corporation (AbInBev, I am not talking about Heinekin in this case) that is actively using tactics like monopolizing entire crops of specific types of hops to control the market and potentially stop a smaller brewer from even being able to acquire such hops again even if they currently have a popular selling beer using those hops or a history of purchasing them is harmful to the entire brewing community. Sorry for the run on sentence.

    Sierra Nevada, Stone and New Belgium have done a great job of getting big and refuting the power of AbInBev. Greg Koch of Stone Brewing has consistently shown that a craft brewery can be large and still be craft. Until the sellout Lagunitas was also doing a good job of getting big and staying craft.
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  30. #30
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    There are other was to go than to sell out to a big brewery. Depends how the brewer is structured business wise. Not a lagunitas guy anyway. Harpoon did an ESOP plan.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Strange and ironic that you have a Patagonia logo as an avatar.

    Carry on...
    Why is this "Strange and Ironic?"
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by canonshooter View Post
    Why is this "Strange and Ironic?"
    One company referenced historically has been run with strong moral compass, the other not so much.

    But you knew that and just wanted to start a debate...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    One company referenced historically has been run with strong moral compass, the other not so much.

    But you knew that and just wanted to start a debate...
    Selling your company to a bigger company is not morally wrong.
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  34. #34
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    The whole "support the little guy", or "craft-y" thing is such a joke. Nothing but propaganda from the owners of the breweries.

    As somebody who has actually worked in the industry, I can assure you, craft beer employees can only dream of the pay and benefits macro-brewery employees get. Instead, they get low pay, shitty benefits (if any), pay periods moved around to make it look like somebody working 60 hours in a week is only a 30 hour a week employee, oh and free beer!!! (to feed their addiction and keep them from looking for a better job). Sadly, free beer doesn't pay the rent, buy groceries, pay for health insurance, or help you plan for retirement.

    It's really just sad how the average craft enthusiast walks around with their nose in the air about how superior the beer they're drinking is, how socially responsible they are, but they have no idea that they're contributing to the wealth of a few super-rich assholes....some of who have huge collections of classic cars, and other extravagances, that they keep hidden while treating their employees like crap, and pander to the earth-first and mountain bike communities.

    Wake up, you're being played.


    .

  35. #35
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    I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe. I drink what tastes good or what looks interesting. We have some really good local beers and that's my first choice. When a beer I like becomes a beer I don't like I drink something else. Like Snapple. Used to drink it, but not since they sold out and changed from really good Iced Tea to crap in a bottle.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat_tires_are_fun View Post
    Every time I buy a bottle of Heinz ketchup, I am supporting the farmer who grew the tomatoes, the factory worker who made the ketchup, the stock person who put it on the shelf, the truck driver who got it there, and the person who rang it up!
    I like my local breweries as much as the next guy, but I hope they all become a smashing success and sellout. To feel otherwise would be very selfish of me.
    Don't forget the acre of corn it takes to make the high fructose corn syrup for that ketchup too! Lots mere jerbs!
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  37. #37
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    Lagunitas gave me many free beers at the brewery. That counts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    The whole "support the little guy", or "craft-y" thing is such a joke. Nothing but propaganda from the owners of the breweries.

    It's really just sad how the average craft enthusiast walks around with their nose in the air about how superior the beer they're drinking is, how socially responsible they are, but they have no idea that they're contributing to the wealth of a few super-rich assholes....some of who have huge collections of classic cars, and other extravagances, that they keep hidden while treating their employees like crap, and pander to the earth-first and mountain bike communities.

    Wake up, you're being played.


    .
    While I do know of a few new local breweries that were started by guys with money to burn, the ones I frequent are not at all that way. If you're going to throw around accusations that we're "being played" then please tell us who you are talking about. And also this is supposed to be some sort of defense of drinking macro? That is owned by a Belgian conglomerate where whole groups of people at the top live this way? Confused about how that is supposed to work.....

    Sounds like you've got a grudge based on one bad experience, and I agree that sucks.

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    Here's an interesting take on why AB is buying up the craft brewers:

    Watch the Hands, Not the Cards ”The Magic of Megabrew” Good Beer Hunting

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BStrummin View Post
    While I do know of a few new local breweries that were started by guys with money to burn, the ones I frequent are not at all that way. If you're going to throw around accusations that we're "being played" then please tell us who you are talking about. And also this is supposed to be some sort of defense of drinking macro? That is owned by a Belgian conglomerate where whole groups of people at the top live this way? Confused about how that is supposed to work.....

    Sounds like you've got a grudge based on one bad experience, and I agree that sucks.
    Even when you only work in one place, you gain a lot of inside knowledge about the industry as a whole. This isn't about one bad brewery, it's about how most employees of micro-breweries are treated and compensated. Obviously, there are going to be some exceptions to the rule, but they're few and far between. The abuses taking place in most of the micro-industry would never be tolerated in the macro world. All this talk of "the evil corporate macros" taking over and "helping the little guy" is just hilarious. What's even more funny is that most of the same craft enthusiasts who claim to be so concerned about helping the little guy are driving around in Toyotas and Subarus instead of "helping the little guy" by driving a vehicle built by union labor.

    As far as the nano-breweries go, there are two kinds of owners. Those who have another source of income (retirement, trust fund, etc.), and those who don't know they're going to be shitting in a bucket in their back yard five years from now because they haven't figured out that the "successful" nanos don't actually make any money.

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    lagunitas lil' sumpin' was a great beer

    let the cost cutting begin

  42. #42
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    Well I'm done trying to argue with your assumptions that based on my experience aren't true. But **** AbInbev all the same.
    /union member
    /fordtruck

  43. #43
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    Even when you only work in one place, you gain a lot of inside knowledge about the industry as a whole. This isn't about one bad brewery, it's about how most employees of micro-breweries are treated and compensated. Obviously, there are going to be some exceptions to the rule, but they're few and far between.
    1> What Micro-Brewery do you work at?
    2> do you have some published employee satisfaction surveys or any data to back up your claims?
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

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  44. #44
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    Bummer, Lagunitas is ruined.

  45. #45
    Trail Gnome Moderator
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    It's just beer people...I buy what tastes good to me, not based on who owns it. With that said, I have two kegs from local brewers in my kegerator.

  46. #46
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    i'll never fault a company for kicking ass and selling. hell, it's my favorite daydream!!

    it's a good day now..something Heineken sells that i like!!
    Santa Cruz 5010 C
    Surly Crosscheck.

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