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  1. #1
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    No thanks (NYT article about prestige 750mm bottlings)

    I'd rather my beers be made with local barley than cacao nibs and imported honey.

    Link to article here.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  2. #2
    whatever she says gueuze.
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    “I don’t think beer and beer culture need to be more like wine. I think they need to keep being themselves.”

    Totally agree. Beer snobbiness isn't cool.
    Most of the time a 12 oz bottle just isn't enough.

  3. #3
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    I wholeheartedly disagree with this article.

    sixers and 12 ounce bottles are preferred by people who want to drink lots and lots of beer. People who want to try one or two really good bottles and share them with friends prefer the bigger format.

    My Cellar is 95% 22oz bottles or 750 Cork n Cage bottles.

    That does not mean I won't buy a sixer or a 12 ounce bottle, because I will, but I prefer the bigger bottles.

    IMO this is just an opinion piece and does not reflect any true studies of craft beer consumers.
    telling me to stay out of a former bombing range next to a dump while you build huge houses next to it? Screw you.-sandmangts

  4. #4
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    I like that big bottles are good for sharing, but I also don't like that big bottles are good for sharing.

    If it's something big and strong, I may be lucky to be able to drink half of it in a sitting. And if my wife doesn't like it...I HAVE to drink all of it. I really don't have a group of folks who like craft beers where I live now. I probably will eventually and then the large volume bottles will be less of an issue as I will probably find SOMEONE who likes it enough to share.

    Smaller bottles mean that I can still share, but I can have one thing while my wife or drinking buddy can choose something else.

  5. #5
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    No thanks (NYT article about prestige 750mm bottlings)

    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    IMO this is just an opinion piece and does not reflect any true studies of craft beer consumers.
    I don't see that it claims to be a "true study." I've never seen one in any popular newspaper or magazine's Food section. It's a piece about what they see as a trend, with opinions given from both advocates and detractors.

    I have 8-9 750s in my cabinet myself, which I buy when my local does their special bottlings once or twice a year. But they're special occasion beers, usually saved for a night by the fireplace. I don't mind the size of the vessel, but I'm not a fan of exotic "look-at-me" beers. That was a tangent rather than the main subject of the article, but as you can tell by my OP mentioning the cacao nibs, it's what jumped out at me.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  6. #6
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    The funny thing for me is that we have a small concentration of a lot of mtbr beer nerds, so we all keep buying beer with the intention to share. Even with all the bottle shares we do, we can't keep up! I buy a bottle here and there with the intention to share, but when we have a bottle share, there are so many bottles that show up, my bottle inventory never gets smaller.

    I can probably handle bombers of beer that are in the 8-11% abv range, but anything bigger, I'll be asking for trouble. And even then, I'm reluctant to open a bomber on a weeknight.

  7. #7
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    I prefer small-format bottles for the following reasons:

    1. Typically cheaper per oz.
    2. Easier to drink with only 1-2 people.
    3. Easier to ship (for shipping home or trading)

    I hit the same problems at tburger - I don't want to kill a bomber by myself most of the time, so I wait for the right time to open it and get a backlog with the beer. JFryauff knows what we're talking about

  8. #8
    Paper Mill Aleworks
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    “They’ll say, ‘I wish that came in a smaller bottle, because that would just ruin the night for me,’ ” said Ben Granger, the owner of Bierkraft, a craft-beer store in Park Slope, Brooklyn.
    Oh Ben...let's not deflect from the issue that your bottle prices are at an insane mark up

    It's a silly argument/gripe.
    It's not like 750's and 22's are taking over the market.
    I see nothing wrong with offering special beers in larger format bottles.

    Who is it hurting?
    The consumer? If so, how?
    There are plenty of small format beers which are just as hard to obtain, and some of which cost more than other large format bottles.
    “Priced per ounce, a 750-milliliter bottle can be twice as expensive as a six pack,” said Michael Tonsmeire, an economist and home brewer in Washington.
    Michael should try buying a 4-pk of 12oz BCBS at $28.

    The industry? Hardly.
    If they choose to strictly run a single size format bottling line, whether it be 750's/cans/12oz, and people are buying them...what benefit is it of theirs to spend the extra money on a separate line?

    Comparing the craft beer industry to the wine industry in a disparaging way doesn't make sense. They are, just as with bourbon/sake/tequilla/etc. part of the beverage industry. If the craft beer industry didn't share interest/techniques with wine and bourbon producers, we wouldn't have these wonderful liquids to put in 750's

    The snobbery comes from mindsets like this.
    Elitist wines consumers turn up their noses, with regards to cheap mass produced offerings, just as beer elitists do. To hold yourself in some high regard, whether it's "to good for working class cheap crap" yuppies, or "to good for yuppie high-end goods" working class...it's still snobbery.

    Moreover, many beer drinkers are uncomfortable with the notion of drinking beer like wine, to be split among several people and pondered.
    What? did he go to an aspergers philosophy meeting to conduct that survey?
    Who doesn't like to drink with friends and family? talk about snobbery

    The whole article is full of this crap, but thankfully it is merely an opinion piece, and not a very good one either.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

  9. #9
    Paper Mill Aleworks
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    JFryauff knows what we're talking about
    Haha...indeed I do
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

  10. #10
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    An earlier version of this article misspelled the first name of Jon Langley, until recently the beer sommelier at DBGB Kitchen and Bar in Manhattan. His first name is spelled Jon, not John.
    While it will be missed by most, shouldn't this be Cicerone.

    Oh, I prefer bombers since I usually try a ton of stuff and want to share it with whoever is around at the time. Cost rarely a consideration as of late since I may only have 1-2 bottles a week.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBarnaby View Post
    While it will be missed by most, shouldn't this be Cicerone.
    Technically Cicerone is trademarked organization, and not a general term like "sommelier". While it's true that it is most commonly related to wine, but it can refer to a number of stewardship's.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

  12. #12
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    Learn something new everyday...thanks

  13. #13
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    I for one can do without the big bottles, for several reasons

    1- I am far more likely to try a new beer if I can just buy a single 12-16 oz bottle.
    2- I am far more likely to OPEN a beer (particularly a high ABV one) if I am not committed to drinking 22+ oz of it at once.
    3- These are generally quite expensive per oz, making points 1 and 2 even more relevant.

    It would be an entirely different story if I could effectively re-cork them (like wine), but I generally cannot do that. Basically, I have to know that I am going to be sharing in order to buy a bigger bottle, and I generally don't throw down big $ on beer I bring to gatherings.

    I have to say that the article for the most part reflects my thoughts on this. I'll leave the marketability up the the market, but I for one am a whole heck of a lot less likely to buy a beer on a bottle over 16oz.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  14. #14
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    Well, Crooked Stave is going the other direction, with a 375mm bottle. (this seems to relate to the mtb community's affinity for different wheel sizes).

    http://blogs.denverpost.com/beer/201...-bottles/8296/


    Honestly, from a brewers standpoint, I can see smaller bottles of high end beer having their place. Sometimes I don't want a 22oz to have to finish off in a sitting. Especially some sours out there, which I really only want a few sips of. The smaller bottle has it's place where I can enjoy a smaller amount of multiple beers, at a lower price.

    Now, I have a mediocre selection of bombers, which I am saving for a special event or party, where I will bust out a few to share. But if I had these same beers in smaller bottle, I wouldn't mind popping one open at home more often. This could possibly lead to selling more of your beer, which every brewer wants to do.

  15. #15
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    I must be a lush. All the IPAs I have are 22ox bottles. After finishing one I ways want more but if I drink two I know I'll be on the floor. A 32 or 34oz would be perfect

  16. #16
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    Shouldn't it be like Costco or something: buy something huge and in one package, and you pay less, not more?

    I like 22oz bottles for trying new beers. I figure it gives me more than one beer to be a good judge, but doesn't stick me with a 6 pack of beer I don't like. However, I do miss the two beers I lose on average by buying, say, two 22oz bottles at the price of a 6 pack. I have a hard time finding the variety of beers in 6 packs. My local stores carry essentially the same selection of craft 6 packs. If I want to experiment, it almost always means the 22oz.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  17. #17
    Beer Please!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bipolarbear View Post
    Well, Crooked Stave is going the other direction, with a 375mm bottle. (this seems to relate to the mtb community's affinity for different wheel sizes).

    Boutique craft brewers switching to smaller bottles


    Honestly, from a brewers standpoint, I can see smaller bottles of high end beer having their place. Sometimes I don't want a 22oz to have to finish off in a sitting. Especially some sours out there, which I really only want a few sips of. The smaller bottle has it's place where I can enjoy a smaller amount of multiple beers, at a lower price.

    Now, I have a mediocre selection of bombers, which I am saving for a special event or party, where I will bust out a few to share. But if I had these same beers in smaller bottle, I wouldn't mind popping one open at home more often. This could possibly lead to selling more of your beer, which every brewer wants to do.
    Locally Iron Fist has started using the 375 size for their new special release higher ABV offerings. I will say this it is nice to be able to get a rare beer in a smaller size for a smaller price. Does make it easier on my wallet when I grab stuff for the cellar. Also I can buy two for about the same price as one 750 and that way if I really enjoy something I can have it again without going out for another big bottle.

    I picked up a 750 of Black Betty this year and it was not as good as I was hoping, it tasted like it needed another two years in the cellar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Shouldn't it be like Costco or something: buy something huge and in one package, and you pay less, not more?

    I like 22oz bottles for trying new beers. I figure it gives me more than one beer to be a good judge, but doesn't stick me with a 6 pack of beer I don't like. However, I do miss the two beers I lose on average by buying, say, two 22oz bottles at the price of a 6 pack. I have a hard time finding the variety of beers in 6 packs. My local stores carry essentially the same selection of craft 6 packs. If I want to experiment, it almost always means the 22oz.
    I like the shops that let you mix n match sixxers, then you can buy a six pack with six different beers so if one is a bust you are not stuck with 5 more.
    telling me to stay out of a former bombing range next to a dump while you build huge houses next to it? Screw you.-sandmangts

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Shouldn't it be like Costco or something: buy something huge and in one package, and you pay less, not more?
    It should be, but it's not the case for many beers. Doesn't make sense other than breweries trying to capitalize on the trend of expensive bombers.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    It should be, but it's not the case for many beers. Doesn't make sense other than breweries trying to capitalize on the trend of expensive bombers.
    I don't know, one can purchase a 24pack of 22oz bottles of Ballast point beer at my local Costco for $34.00.... That seems like a pretty good deal to me.
    telling me to stay out of a former bombing range next to a dump while you build huge houses next to it? Screw you.-sandmangts

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    It should be, but it's not the case for many beers. Doesn't make sense other than breweries trying to capitalize on the trend of expensive bombers.
    Well, I think I'm kind of sympathetic to some of the points made in the NYTimes article. It's not that I personally care about the size of the bottle or whatever. If people want to buy in any size, whatever... However, I'm kinda weirded out by the direction of the second-wave of craft brewing. It's become more class-conscious, and I have weird class issues. I don't mind admitting that my opinion is kind of lame.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I don't know, one can purchase a 24pack of 22oz bottles of Ballast point beer at my local Costco for $34.00.... That seems like a pretty good deal to me.
    Really? A buck fifty per 22oz bottle, give or take? Man, I'm drooling. That's bordering on Bush cheap. Wish I had a Costco within a 2 hour drive.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I don't know, one can purchase a 24pack of 22oz bottles of Ballast point beer at my local Costco for $34.00.... That seems like a pretty good deal to me.
    "Many", not all.

    Firestone, Rogue, Stone and many others charge more per oz. for a bomber than 12 oz format, even though the smaller bottles have greater overhead cost for the breweries.

    If you know you like the beer, then the choice is a no-brainer. If it's something new, maybe a bomber is a better option rather than committing to the 6 pack.

    That said, the article is misguided, contains a lot of misinformation and has received a lot of flak from the craft beer community.

  23. #23
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    What I really have a problem with is the growing pretense associated with "craft" beer. Problem is, much like wine, I think that's really coming from the consumer and not from the industry itself.

    In other words, you can't blame duushyness on a bottle size.

  24. #24
    Beer Please!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    That said, the article is misguided, contains a lot of misinformation and has received a lot of flak from the craft beer community.
    It should be receiving flak from the craft beer community.
    telling me to stay out of a former bombing range next to a dump while you build huge houses next to it? Screw you.-sandmangts

  25. #25
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    Anchor's Old Foghorn barleywine used to come in small bottles (180ml, I think), due to it's "high ABV" of 8%-10%. It's a different time, indeed!

    I've got a bomber of Crooked Line stout that's been in the fridge for over a year, because it says 13% on the label and I have yet to have an opportunity to drink that much myself. My current lifestyle is such that when I'm drinking beer it is rarely at home, it is usually with colleagues when I'm away on business.

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