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  1. #76
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    The next time you post some article or study about how drinking beer is killing people, please put a disclaimer on the top that it applies to heavy drinkers and binge drinkers only, and you will get less heat. Your posts come off as if they apply to everyone who drinks beer, and that is insulting.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Your logic is flawed. You're effectively saying that if there was say a mountain bike part that consistently failed when used hard and heavily, putting people's health, well being and life at risk then honestly posting about it would somehow be trolling and an outrage to the people that really liked that particular bike part. Beer/alcohol is exactly like that. If used very lightly and sparingly it's fine, if used hard and heavily it fails and is very damaging to human health. That is the complete sum of my message about beer. The hysterical responses to the facts are actually the only trolling going on.
    TL1 - you have very little credibility when it comes to pointing out logic fallicies. Your rambling on often contradicts itself. (IMHO)
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    TL1 - you have very little credibility when it comes to pointing out logic fallicies. Your rambling on often contradicts itself. (IMHO)
    No opinion needed; 'tis fact. That's what happens when someone spends too much time quoting articles he/she doesn't fully understand.

    It's like if I were to jump on a knitting forum and talk about the arthritic dangers of heavy knitting. Since I don't know anything about knitting, nor knitting-induced arthritis, I should probably keep my mouth shut. TL1, on the other hand, has established himself as an "authority" who is better at web searching for journal articles than actually understanding physiology, biochemistry and, in some cases, logic.

    I am confident that heavy alcohol use contributes to decreased testosterone production, due to many biological pathways including the requirement of NAD+ in the metabolism of alcohol. Anecdotal evidence, however, has shown me that even when binge drinking, people rarely have issues manifest due to reduced testosterone.


    TL;DR - Ignore the troll and have a beer

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    The next time you post some article or study about how drinking beer is killing people, please put a disclaimer on the top that it applies to heavy drinkers and binge drinkers only, and you will get less heat. Your posts come off as if they apply to everyone who drinks beer, and that is insulting.
    Have I ever done anything different than say that drinking beyond safe levels is harmful? Show me where. All beer raises your estrogen levels though in direct proportion to the amount consumed but a little estrogen is good for mens' health. Why does this information irritate you so much anyway? Think about it. I bet your posts irritate me more than mine irritate you but you don't see me crying about it all the time.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    No opinion needed; 'tis fact. That's what happens when someone spends too much time quoting articles he/she doesn't fully understand.

    It's like if I were to jump on a knitting forum and talk about the arthritic dangers of heavy knitting. Since I don't know anything about knitting, nor knitting-induced arthritis, I should probably keep my mouth shut. TL1, on the other hand, has established himself as an "authority" who is better at web searching for journal articles than actually understanding physiology, biochemistry and, in some cases, logic.

    I am confident that heavy alcohol use contributes to decreased testosterone production, due to many biological pathways including the requirement of NAD+ in the metabolism of alcohol. Anecdotal evidence, however, has shown me that even when binge drinking, people rarely have issues manifest due to reduced testosterone.


    TL;DR - Ignore the troll and have a beer
    OK, I guess that's why limp d*ck is so famously connected with men who have drank too much alcohol. Besides, where did I say anything about testosterone in this thread besides saying that drinking a small amount increases it? If my logic is faulty point out the flaws instead of churlishly implying you can but then you don't. Personal attacks are so completely weak guys. I think you can do better than that but then again maybe you're just being unnecessarily defensive and you can't. Clearly Chas has the numbers of a lot of the regulars in the beer forum: bizarrely and unnecessarily defensive.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    OK, I guess that's why limp d*ck is so famously connected with men who have drank too much alcohol.
    "Limp d*ck" is due to vasodilation of blood vessels that aren't able to close. Not decreased testosterone which is the point of this thread.

    Alcoholics, on the other hand, suffer from other problems. Casual drinkers don't have to worry.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    "Limp d*ck" is due to vasodilation of blood vessels that aren't able to close. Not decreased testosterone which is the point of this thread.

    Alcoholics, on the other hand, suffer from other problems. Casual drinkers don't have to worry.
    I still didn't say anything about decreased testosterone and YOU still haven't pointed out any flaws in my logic. You sure are accomplished at being condescending though. What's the definition of a "casual" drinker anyway? A guy wearing loafers and a cardigan while he drinks?

  8. #83
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    Haha good thread you got here people..I'll drink beer any day and any alcoholic beverage.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFryauff View Post
    I'm not sure if you were touched by beer inappropriately as a young child, but it would explain a bit.
    I'm not sure if you were touched inappropriately by facts as a child but it would explain a lot of the bizarre defensiveness when confronted by them.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    I still didn't say anything about decreased testosterone and YOU still haven't pointed out any flaws in my logic. You sure are accomplished at being condescending though. What's the definition of a "casual" drinker anyway? A guy wearing loafers and a cardigan while he drinks?

    Here the following informal logic flaws are present in the statement above:
    shifting the burden of proof
    fallacy of the beard
    possibly even an appeal to ridicule.

    It isn't in the above quote, but you have a habit of begging the question.

    I am certain there are others...
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    Here the following informal logic flaws are present in the statement above:
    shifting the burden of proof
    fallacy of the beard
    possibly even an appeal to ridicule.

    It isn't in the above quote, but you have a habit of begging the question.

    I am certain there are others...
    Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it so.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it so.
    Oh, oh, oh...
    This one is a termination cliche'
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    Oh, oh, oh...
    This one is a termination cliche'
    It's customary to provide examples and proof when making assertions. Maybe that doesn't apply to people who only wish to be condescending though. My only premise is this: beer in small quantities is fine and even improves certain areas of health, beer in large quantities is damaging to health and what makes a large quantity is smaller than many people think. Why so defensive? Have a nice day.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahday View Post

    A good deal of research that starts out with animals eventually moves to humans for more long term study. But as far as testing medicines, treatments, disease, etc., using animal test subjects is very reliable and helps researchers get to their conclusions more quickly.

    Performing this research on animals does not make it any less scientifically significant or reliable.
    I understand exactly where animal research fit in to science. However, when an internet warrior references only research conducted on rats, with no other supporting evidence or context (context being overlooked far more than it should), I'll take the proverbial. Typical route from 'some research shows this' to 'you are less of a man' with the way this particular research is presented by the likes of the OP.

  15. #90
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    I provided exactly what you asked for... you asked someone to point out the flaws in your logic. I did exactly that. Now, you are moving the "goal post."

    Note: Moving the goal post is an informal logic fallacy. Moving the goal post is changing the level of acceptable proof during a conversation. It leads me to believe that you will not accept any amoount of proof that does not agree with your "cherry picked" facts. (Cherry picked facts are chosen by a person soley because those facts agree with a pre-selected opinion.)
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    We're not annoyed by the facts. We're annoyed by you constantly pointing out the facts in every thread that has the least bit touch on health. We get it, more than1-2 beers a day is deleterious to our health; we choose to make choices that negatively affect our health, you do not. Congrats, now, run along Sally, the adults are trying to have a conversation about one of our favorite things and don't need to keep being reminded that it's killing us since we already have a pretty good idea about it.
    Quoted since you still don't seem to grasp the fact that we are not bothered by facts. It is you, as an Internet indentity and real person, that bothers us. Your inability to understand this simple fact is astoundingly mind-boggling. get off the Internet and go ride a bike.

    Edit: I reported that spam, y'all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    I provided exactly what you asked for... you asked someone to point out the flaws in your logic. I did exactly that. Now, you are moving the "goal post."

    Note: Moving the goal post is an informal logic fallacy. Moving the goal post is changing the level of acceptable proof during a conversation. It leads me to believe that you will not accept any amoount of proof that does not agree with your "cherry picked" facts. (Cherry picked facts are chosen by a person soley because those facts agree with a pre-selected opinion.)
    Wow, and they say I'm annoying. You made statements with no examples or proof. Prove my premise wrong that beer in large quantities is harmful. I have posted numerous scientific studies that say it is. Clearly your only purpose here is to be churlish, smarmy and condescending.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    Quoted since you still don't seem to grasp the fact that we are not bothered by facts. It is you, as an Internet indentity and real person, that bothers us. Your inability to understand this simple fact is astoundingly mind-boggling. get off the Internet and go ride a bike.

    Edit: I reported that spam, y'all.
    Free radicals in food cause cancer and shorten life. If you eat a near starving diet with good nutrition you can extend your life. No thanks. I'll enjoy the simple pleasures of good beer, wine, food, sex, etc. until I die. Which will probably be by an accident like being hit by a bus. Which chances are increased by playing in traffic on foot or on a bike (don't need no study to know this). But I still choose to play.

    Wouldn't that just piss you off to die a shortened, unfulfilled life? Phuck abstinence!

  19. #94
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    I never proposed the premise that in large quantitiies beer is harmful. It is not up to me to prove a claim I did not make. That could be considered "wishful thinking".

    Are you changing the subject from: point out the logic flaws? to an "ad hominem" attack on me because I provided what you requested?
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    I never proposed the premise that in large quantitiies beer is harmful. It is not up to me to prove a claim I did not make. That could be considered "wishful thinking".

    Are you changing the subject from: point out the logic flaws? to an "ad hominem" attack on me because I provided what you requested?
    I'd rep you more, but I can't yet.

  21. #96
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    I contest the study on the grounds that beer goggles do not make women less attractive. On the contrary, they make all women more appealing (sometimes to a gentlemans amazement the following morning). In other words, beer makes men more able to perform. Low testosterone is supposed to make men less able to perform, yes? Study refuted.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Wow, and they say I'm annoying. You made statements with no examples or proof. Prove my premise wrong that beer in large quantities is harmful. I have posted numerous scientific studies that say it is. Clearly your only purpose here is to be churlish, smarmy and condescending.

    This trend is getting tiresome, there have now been like half a dozen threads on this cancer/testosterone/health in respect to beer in the last few months. Each one of them results in TL1 arguing with users on and on for pages.

    TL1 you need to chill; like I have been requesting now in each of these health threads. They continue simply due to your persistent religious like devotion to informing us of our bad drinking habbits. I am starting to find you more troll-ish for each of these threads that pop up.
    Chill out dude, we get it, we alllllllll get it.

    This subforum is supposed to be about enjoying beer.
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  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    I understand exactly where animal research fit in to science. However, when an internet warrior references only research conducted on rats, with no other supporting evidence or context (context being overlooked far more than it should), I'll take the proverbial. Typical route from 'some research shows this' to 'you are less of a man' with the way this particular research is presented by the likes of the OP.
    Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure people understand that there is nothing odd or unreliable about doing research on animals as far as how that data translates to humans.

    This thread is really stomping on my enjoyment of beer. Boo! Not because of the impacts on testosterone levels but for all the buzz-killing animosity. Seriously, anyone who doesn't consider that excess consumption of alcohol is not good for your health in innumerable ways is not going to be helped by something posted in here. This is information readily available in the popular press and any lay person's medical source. I'm sure we are all well aware. What we choose to do with that info is up to us. I choose to drink responsibly and in moderation (except on occasion...)

    Next I'm going to learn that my car is polluting the planet - tell me something I don't know...

    Like what are the results of lowered testosterone levels? Why would one care? Osteoperosis, fatty deposits around the middle and on organs, depression and more are all potential impacts of lowered testosterone, though I don't see any discussion of that here. Regardless, I don't think the level of drop cited in those studies is high enough to cause "hypogonadism" which is what causes these ancillary problems.

    Yeah, I just said "tiny balls" in medical speak!

    All men experience a drop in testosterone levels after around 30. The issue is how far and how does it impact you. Low or no sex drive is one of the main indicators for this issue, so if you are not experiencing that, its probably not at a level to cause concern. not that I am a doctor...

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    I never proposed the premise that in large quantitiies beer is harmful. It is not up to me to prove a claim I did not make. That could be considered "wishful thinking".

    Are you changing the subject from: point out the logic flaws? to an "ad hominem" attack on me because I provided what you requested?
    Changing what subject? What are you talking about, do you even know? My premise in this and other like threads is that beer in small quantities has some healthy benefits but in large quantities is harmful and dangerous. So what logic flaws are you exposing? The analogy I made for Klugerjr between a fragile bike part and beer was what exposed the flaws in his logic. I have no idea whatever else you're trying to refute and I have a feeling you don't either because you don't bother to identify it. Then jmartino piles on, not having Clue One either. Guys get another beer, I think you may be suffering from withdrawal symptoms.

  25. #100
    tl1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    This trend is getting tiresome, there have now been like half a dozen threads on this cancer/testosterone/health in respect to beer in the last few months. Each one of them results in TL1 arguing with users on and on for pages.
    Don't click on the threads then. Why do you even bother? I'm not trolling not spamming just keeping it real dude. I have said nothing untrue or profane, all the imagined trolling is in your mind. Why do you folks protest so much anyway? Think about it. THAT is what energizes this continuing conversation, the constant denial of the facts. That and the continuous attempt to paint folks like Chas who are simply asking questions and presenting facts about the health effects of beer as some sort of wackos. It's offensive and if you think you can get away with that just because there are more of you that would prefer to not know than us that would you're seriously wrong. I am tenacious against hateful bullies, always have been, always will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    This subforum is supposed to be about enjoying beer.
    I enjoy beer almost everyday. The spastic attacks on me from the irrationally outraged folks in this forum don't prevent that. Why should you be any different?

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