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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    Couple of things: I don't think alcohol content has anything to do with the affect on T levels. How many beer devotes also race? My understanding is that beer is unique among alcoholic beverages.

    The main reason I started this thread was due to the oddity of having a beer forum here in the first place. I suppose this site consist of a VERY broad range of members. The sites I compare it to are primarily MMA\MA\boxing and weight lifting sites. Those sites take a very critical stance on beer all due to the negative affects associated with pursuit of the sport(s) in question. I just find it interesting the number of people herein that don't care about the outcome of beer consumption.

    I don't give a darn if you guys drink every day. That's just me, I don't care if you smoke, drink, ram each other in the ass etc and so on. Just an observation that I find it odd so many herein drink beer and seem to also aspire to be fast on a bike. I suppose that last point is where I got off track. How many of you are in the upper echelon of your peers
    on race day and still are OK with regular consumption of beer?

    PS: Why don't some of you sling some more derogatory insults my way, my self esteem is high enough that your "insults" roll right off my back.

    PS2: To the person giving me a negative rep and the comment "dbag dingleberry" over starting this thread. Come on, are you so small minded you can't endure discourse on this topic without resorting to name calling? Why aren't you man enough to set me straight and tell me where I am wrong? I started this thread with serious intent. You might want to get a hormone panel and see if all that beer has caused you a problem.

    Chas chill bro, chill. Us beer forum regulars are just getting a bit tired of the common "beer is bad for you" threads. You just happened to post another one of these. Yes, beer may be bad for you in excess, but I still fail to believe that a beer a night is going to cause me any harm, and there is no convincing me otherwise. That being said, a lot of these threads digress in to petty arguments, where neither side will be convinced to change there stance on the subject. Like most of these threads I am guessing it will divulge in to poo flinging, and therefor after a few more days and I will likely be posting pictures of unicorns, narwhals, and cats to lighten the mood.

    As you yourself just stated; MTBR has an entire sub-forum devoted to beer. It is a staple in much of mountain biking culture. In fact some times it is required to drink alcoholic liquids in some of the single speed races I have attended. I race (less now than before) and have an average of 2 beers a night, weigh 155lbs with 5% body fat. I am the guy who regularly brings beers for post ride parking lot revelry, and have never met anyone who has said "no thanks man, it causes cancer" or "na man im watching my testosterone levels" I have however heard, "thanks but i don't drink" or "no thanks bud, I have a long drive" If these threads were more like how we would react in a parking lot post ride in reality, rather through our anonymous MTBR personas sitting in front of a computer, they would be much more enjoyable. I am game to talk about health risks of beer, I am just getting a bit tired of the negativity that is stemming from it.

    Here is a picture I took of an aid station I assisted at for a local race this summer. It was at the top of the worst climb, and dubbed "bacon hill" for the past 3 years, as the aid station provides bacon, doughnuts, bacon-doughnut sandwiches, coke, gue, beer, and for single speeders Jameson Whiskey. The guy who won the race this year did a wheelie, while taking a shot and eating a piece of bacon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beer and your manhood-0915121010a.jpg  

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    The guy who won the race this year did a wheelie, while taking a shot and eating a piece of bacon.
    Unpossible!

    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

  3. #53
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    That race just made my short list of races to attend. I need details man!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFryauff View Post
    Unpossible!
    I would have said the same if I hadn't seen it myself. There were witnesses. Oh and he got 3rd or 4th overall, but 1st in the Single Speed, should have specified.

    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    That race just made my short list of races to attend. I need details man!
    Solid race that connects a lot of my local trails. Probably will be competing next year, thought about it this year, but sitting around eating bacon, doughnuts and whiskey while watching others suffer sounded much more enjoyable.
    "40 in the Fort" - Annual Endurance Mountain Bike Race | Overland Mountain Bike Club
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    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/36911929?badge=0" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/36911929">40 in da Fort 3_3</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user1490587">Singletrack Trails</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Like most of these threads I am guessing it will divulge in to poo flinging, and therefor after a few more days and I will likely be posting pictures of unicorns, narwhals, and cats to lighten the mood.
    Sir, as a regular member of this forum, I am offended by your assertion.


  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeePhroh View Post
    Sir, as a regular member of this forum, I am offended by your assertion.
    LOL,
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  7. #57
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    Peaty cracked a beer before he reached the end of his run at Windham this year...does he still hold the record for the most UCI world cup wins in any discipline?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    Couple of things: I don't think alcohol content has anything to do with the affect on T levels. How many beer devotes also race? My understanding is that beer is unique among alcoholic beverages.

    The main reason I started this thread was due to the oddity of having a beer forum here in the first place. I suppose this site consist of a VERY broad range of members. The sites I compare it to are primarily MMA\MA\boxing and weight lifting sites. Those sites take a very critical stance on beer all due to the negative affects associated with pursuit of the sport(s) in question. I just find it interesting the number of people herein that don't care about the outcome of beer consumption.

    I don't give a darn if you guys drink every day. That's just me, I don't care if you smoke, drink, ram each other in the ass etc and so on. Just an observation that I find it odd so many herein drink beer and seem to also aspire to be fast on a bike. I suppose that last point is where I got off track. How many of you are in the upper echelon of your peers
    on race day and still are OK with regular consumption of beer?

    PS: Why don't some of you sling some more derogatory insults my way, my self esteem is high enough that your "insults" roll right off my back.

    PS2: To the person giving me a negative rep and the comment "dbag dingleberry" over starting this thread. Come on, are you so small minded you can't endure discourse on this topic without resorting to name calling? Why aren't you man enough to set me straight and tell me where I am wrong? I started this thread with serious intent. You might want to get a hormone panel and see if all that beer has caused you a problem.
    As others have stated, Riding Bikes is not a competitive sport for most people who do so, it is just something they like to do for fun that also has good health side effects.

    Have you ever heard of doing a pub crawl by bike?

    Bikes n Beer have a major connection, yes you and a few others might take your biking very seriously and thus you feel that people who drink beer are just ruining their competitive edge, but really if we were pro racers we also would not be drinking beer like we do.

    You have to understand that your OP comes off a bit like you are a troll just trying to stir up a flame war. I know someone else who has made a habit of doing that in this sub-forum over the years.

    As to the negative rep, I always sign my negative and positive rep with my name. I think it shows weak character to attack someone like that without owning up to your words.
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  9. #59
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    Here's a good summary of alcohol's effects on your hormones, expanding beyond just your sex hormones. Cheers.

    Alcohol Alert From NIAAA

    Hormones are chemical messengers that control and coordinate the functions of all tissues and organs. Each hormone is secreted from a particular gland and distributed throughout the body to act on tissues at different sites. Two areas of the brain, the hypothalamus and the pituitary, release hormones, as do glands in other parts of the body, such as the thyroid, thyroid glands, gonads, pancreas, and parathyroid.

    For hormones to function properly, their amount and the timing of their release must be finely coordinated, and the target tissues must be able to respond to them accurately. Alcohol can impair the functions of the hormone-releasing glands and of the target tissues, thereby causing serious medical consequences.

    Hormones control four major areas of body function: production, utilization, and storage of energy; reproduction; maintenance of the internal environment (e.g., blood pressure and bone mass); and growth and development.

    This Alcohol Alert describes how, by interfering with hormone actions, alcohol can alter blood sugar levels and exacerbate or cause diabetes (1-4); impair reproductive functions (5,6); and interfere with calcium metabolism and bone structure, increasing the risk of osteoporosis (7). Conversely, hormones also may affect alcohol consumption by influencing alcohol-seeking behavior.
    Alcohol's Effects on Hormones

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    You have to understand that your OP comes off a bit like you are a troll just trying to stir up a flame war.
    I understand your point, I am not trolling. For the record I drink beer! I love beer. No, not as much as many herein but I love to drink a cool, I hope this is OK, Shiner Bock.

    I still want to know about the topic of this thread???????

    Why does everyone have to get so defensive? It was an honest question that was primarily motivated when it dawned on my the difference in attitude among a few of the boards I frequent. My gut tells me that mtbr is very much more diverse than the other boards I frequent.

    Still, why can't we just have a straightforward discussion without jumping to the conclusion that I am a troll? I am sorry but I don't buy that this sub-forum is all that troll ridden with people saying beer is unhealthy. My benchmark is the number of threads on the wheel/tire sub-forum arguing about the dangers of ghetto tubeless.
    Nobody cares...........

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    I understand your point, I am not trolling. For the record I drink beer! I love beer. No, not as much as many herein but I love to drink a cool, I hope this is OK, Shiner Bock.

    I still want to know about the topic of this thread???????

    Why does everyone have to get so defensive? It was an honest question that was primarily motivated when it dawned on my the difference in attitude among a few of the boards I frequent. My gut tells me that mtbr is very much more diverse than the other boards I frequent.

    Still, why can't we just have a straightforward discussion without jumping to the conclusion that I am a troll? I am sorry but I don't buy that this sub-forum is all that troll ridden with people saying beer is unhealthy. My benchmark is the number of threads on the wheel/tire sub-forum arguing about the dangers of ghetto tubeless.
    Frankly, I think the rabid defensiveness in this forum is simply because many people here have heavy drinking issues and they are tired of hearing complaints from friends and family about it. The last thing they want to hear in this forum are facts about the downside of alcohol use which are perceived as more of what friends, family and possibly employers and law enforcement are telling them. That and excessive alcohol use causes impaired brain function which makes a lot of people kind of dim-witted. Also, completely ignore Klugejr, everything that's not oblivious happy-talk about beer is a troll to him.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    I still want to know about the topic of this thread???????

    Why does everyone have to get so defensive?

    Still, why can't we just have a straightforward discussion without jumping to the conclusion that I am a troll?
    OK then - you came across as a troll - and you were judgemental. If you can't see that in your subsequent posts, then you need to understand a little more about how others might see you....

    Anyway - I'll bite. Can you please provide me with a link or two so I can understand why you think alcohol reduces my testosterone levels and why that might concern me. I will then look at that and give you a response to your question. I'd not heard of this concern before, so please provide me with what you know. Thanks.

  13. #63
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    I am glad it reduces the big T.

    Been drinking since I was 15, got my third kid last week (now 34).

    Figure I would have 16 or 17 kids by now if it weren't for beer.

    Cheaper to buy beer than feed 17 kids.

  14. #64
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    Here are two:

    Hops Compound May Prevent Prostate Cancer

    Inhibition of testosterone synthesis by etha... [Alcohol. 1989 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

    I did not realize this topic was in dispute. Seems like it is settled in the medical community. The only thing open for discussion is "does it matter to the individual and to what degree is it true".

    I don't understand the need for me to do others research, but those of you that care
    can start here: (Use the search function.)

    Home - PubMed - NCBI

    or perhaps the Journal of Endocrinology or many other scholarly journals.

    The only things I find that are dismissive of the effect are people that "seem" to be biased in favor of beer and drink.

    @lulanok: what does watching TV have to do with this issue? Is there recent coverage about this? I would not know as I typically only use the TV for movies and for 1 or 2 very specific shows. We don't watch much TV around here, I'd rather spent thad time in the gym, on my bike or working. TV is pretty much a waste and/or for the brain dead IMO.

    @TooTallUK: Where, in my original post, was I "judgmental"? I never judged others for drinking beer, hell, I've admitted that I like beer. I will also admit I have greatly curtailed my drinking of ALL alcohol for health reasons. The fact is - I was reaching out to the one group on this board that I thought might have considered the issue. Seems like everyone jumped the gun and got all defensive instead of considering the obvious.
    Nobody cares...........

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    I did not realize this topic was in dispute.
    Here's some fun math based upon the study you linked.

    1.5g/kg alcohol intake as defined in your study requires that someone 175lbs drinks roughly 4 beers:

    Ethanol is 0.789g/ml. An average 12oz. (354.9ml) beer at 5% has approximately 14g of ethanol by the following calculation:

    354.9ml x 5% ethanol x 0.789g/ml = ~14g.

    In order to reach 1.5g/kg, a person weighing 175 lbs (79.38 kg) would have to drink:

    79.38kg / 1.5g/kg = 52.92 g of ethanol, or approximately 3.8 beers.




    Conversely, low amounts of alcohol may increase testosterone levels:

    Testosterone Increases in Men After a Low Dose of Alcohol - Sarkola - 2006 - Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research - Wiley Online Library


    Just some stuff to think about while drinking a beer.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom H View Post
    Oh, just man the heck up. I am 60, and if I could ever catch a cute one, me thinks that ain't the problem. My wife told me to go to the doc and get some of those pills that would help improve our sex life. When I brought her home some diet pills, I was moved out to the couch.
    Now, That's funny.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Here's some fun math based upon the study you linked.

    1.5g/kg alcohol intake as defined in your study requires that someone 175lbs drinks roughly 4 beers:

    Ethanol is 0.789g/ml. An average 12oz. (354.9ml) beer at 5% has approximately 14g of ethanol by the following calculation:

    354.9ml x 5% ethanol x 0.789g/ml = ~14g.

    In order to reach 1.5g/kg, a person weighing 175 lbs (79.38 kg) would have to drink:

    79.38kg / 1.5g/kg = 52.92 g of ethanol, or approximately 3.8 beers.




    Conversely, low amounts of alcohol may increase testosterone levels:

    Testosterone Increases in Men After a Low Dose of Alcohol - Sarkola - 2006 - Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research - Wiley Online Library


    Just some stuff to think about while drinking a beer.
    Imagine that. Small amounts of alcohol drinking has some positive effects but heavy alcohol drinking greater than current guidelines has some very negative effects. Haven't we heard this somewhere before? Like a hundred times? And this simple message has generated angry and irrational resistance?

    Another dimension to this is that alcohol also increases estrogen levels in both men and women, that's why it's a breast cancer risk factor. I'm enjoying a delicious Bell's Winter White today as my daily testosterone and estrogen raiser.

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    Man, there are a lot of people here who need a beer.

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    You've referenced two research projects. Their subjects? Rats. RATS. Not human beings. I just thought I'd make that clear.

    I think the vast majority of people understand that heavy consumption of alcohol, of any kind, is bad for your health - as your drunken rat buddies demonstrate. All things in moderation. Apart from people trying to make valid points and referencing rats. That is just begging for abuse.

    I wasn't being lazy on the research front - I'd never heard of the 'issue' so wanted to know what had impressed upon you that this was a problem. i also couldn't find anything valid as far as research and evidence goes. Now I know. Rats.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostboyscout View Post
    man, there are a lot of people here who need a beer.
    true that!!!
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    true that!!!
    Yeah I agree. I feel my nipples and breasts aren't quite perky enough. I better go get my beer/estrogen fix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    You've referenced two research projects. Their subjects? Rats. RATS. Not human beings. I just thought I'd make that clear.

    I think the vast majority of people understand that heavy consumption of alcohol, of any kind, is bad for your health - as your drunken rat buddies demonstrate. All things in moderation. Apart from people trying to make valid points and referencing rats. That is just begging for abuse.

    I wasn't being lazy on the research front - I'd never heard of the 'issue' so wanted to know what had impressed upon you that this was a problem. i also couldn't find anything valid as far as research and evidence goes. Now I know. Rats.
    I don't put much stock in or have much concern about the testosterone impacts from my beer consumption (and I do love beer!), but I just had to comment on this as the child of a medical researcher.

    Rats and other lab animals are the primary subjects for MOST medical research. Why? Several reasons. Chief among them is that you can control your inputs on the experiment, which is much harder to do for humans (that is, controlling diet and other environmental factors to know that it is really the alcohol that is creating the outputs you are measuring and not some other factor). Rats and other lab animals also have a shorter life cycle and so you can measure impacts over a lifetime more effectively. You can also selectively breed animals to select for specific traits, genetic propensities, or ensure limited genetic variation in the population studied. And, you can perform an autopsy on the dead animals (for things like Alzheimer's, this is the only way to distinguish it from other forms of dementia, for example). Most if not all of this is difficult or impossible with human test subjects.

    A good deal of research that starts out with animals eventually moves to humans for more long term study. But as far as testing medicines, treatments, disease, etc., using animal test subjects is very reliable and helps researchers get to their conclusions more quickly.

    Performing this research on animals does not make it any less scientifically significant or reliable.

    That said, I have a nice pilsner waiting for me at home. Along with my two children and (satisfied) wife.

    Everything in moderation. Except biking...

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    I understand your point, I am not trolling. For the record I drink beer! I love beer. No, not as much as many herein but I love to drink a cool, I hope this is OK, Shiner Bock.

    I still want to know about the topic of this thread???????

    Why does everyone have to get so defensive? It was an honest question that was primarily motivated when it dawned on my the difference in attitude among a few of the boards I frequent. My gut tells me that mtbr is very much more diverse than the other boards I frequent.

    Still, why can't we just have a straightforward discussion without jumping to the conclusion that I am a troll? I am sorry but I don't buy that this sub-forum is all that troll ridden with people saying beer is unhealthy. My benchmark is the number of threads on the wheel/tire sub-forum arguing about the dangers of ghetto tubeless.
    Posting something negative about a hobby/topic in a forum designed around that topic is trolling, whether you think it is or not. tl1 is a specialist at this and refuses to quit. It would be the same if you went into a F1 forum and touted how NASCAR is better, or visa versa. At some point you become a troll who is simply looking to create online controversy by insulting peoples interests. I am sorry you cannot see how your original post did that, but in one quick post you insulted fans of craft beer by making a statement that because we drink beer we are going to have less man juice. Not one study conducted on Humans who drink moderate Beer has ever proven that to be so, it is just not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Frankly, I think the rabid defensiveness in this forum is simply because many people here have heavy drinking issues and they are tired of hearing complaints from friends and family about it. The last thing they want to hear in this forum are facts about the downside of alcohol use which are perceived as more of what friends, family and possibly employers and law enforcement are telling them. That and excessive alcohol use causes impaired brain function which makes a lot of people kind of dim-witted. Also, completely ignore Klugejr, everything that's not oblivious happy-talk about beer is a troll to him.
    I am guessing you are referring to me, Klurejr, but go ahead and misspell my online handle.

    I am not a binge drinker, nor am I a heavy drinker. At most I drink 20-30oz of beer in a week.

    However I can state with certainty that you tl1 are a troll in the beer forum who wont quit because you continue to get a rise out of people. This is the last thing I will ever respond to you, you are a troll, go away.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    This.





    Also to the OP, Drinking in moderation will not reduce a mans testosterone. If it was truly an issue men would of stopped being able to make babies a long time ago. You do realize beer has been around longer than trumped up studies.
    Ha! I love it, I got an unsigned neg rep for this post that just said "troll"

    very clever whoever you are, very clever.......
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Posting something negative about a hobby/topic in a forum designed around that topic is trolling, whether you think it is or not.
    Your logic is flawed. You're effectively saying that if there was say a mountain bike part that consistently failed when used hard and heavily, putting people's health, well being and life at risk then honestly posting about it would somehow be trolling and an outrage to the people that really liked that particular bike part. Beer/alcohol is exactly like that. If used very lightly and sparingly it's fine, if used hard and heavily it fails and is very damaging to human health. That is the complete sum of my message about beer. The hysterical responses to the facts are actually the only trolling going on.

  26. #76
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    The next time you post some article or study about how drinking beer is killing people, please put a disclaimer on the top that it applies to heavy drinkers and binge drinkers only, and you will get less heat. Your posts come off as if they apply to everyone who drinks beer, and that is insulting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Your logic is flawed. You're effectively saying that if there was say a mountain bike part that consistently failed when used hard and heavily, putting people's health, well being and life at risk then honestly posting about it would somehow be trolling and an outrage to the people that really liked that particular bike part. Beer/alcohol is exactly like that. If used very lightly and sparingly it's fine, if used hard and heavily it fails and is very damaging to human health. That is the complete sum of my message about beer. The hysterical responses to the facts are actually the only trolling going on.
    TL1 - you have very little credibility when it comes to pointing out logic fallicies. Your rambling on often contradicts itself. (IMHO)
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  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    TL1 - you have very little credibility when it comes to pointing out logic fallicies. Your rambling on often contradicts itself. (IMHO)
    No opinion needed; 'tis fact. That's what happens when someone spends too much time quoting articles he/she doesn't fully understand.

    It's like if I were to jump on a knitting forum and talk about the arthritic dangers of heavy knitting. Since I don't know anything about knitting, nor knitting-induced arthritis, I should probably keep my mouth shut. TL1, on the other hand, has established himself as an "authority" who is better at web searching for journal articles than actually understanding physiology, biochemistry and, in some cases, logic.

    I am confident that heavy alcohol use contributes to decreased testosterone production, due to many biological pathways including the requirement of NAD+ in the metabolism of alcohol. Anecdotal evidence, however, has shown me that even when binge drinking, people rarely have issues manifest due to reduced testosterone.


    TL;DR - Ignore the troll and have a beer

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    The next time you post some article or study about how drinking beer is killing people, please put a disclaimer on the top that it applies to heavy drinkers and binge drinkers only, and you will get less heat. Your posts come off as if they apply to everyone who drinks beer, and that is insulting.
    Have I ever done anything different than say that drinking beyond safe levels is harmful? Show me where. All beer raises your estrogen levels though in direct proportion to the amount consumed but a little estrogen is good for mens' health. Why does this information irritate you so much anyway? Think about it. I bet your posts irritate me more than mine irritate you but you don't see me crying about it all the time.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    No opinion needed; 'tis fact. That's what happens when someone spends too much time quoting articles he/she doesn't fully understand.

    It's like if I were to jump on a knitting forum and talk about the arthritic dangers of heavy knitting. Since I don't know anything about knitting, nor knitting-induced arthritis, I should probably keep my mouth shut. TL1, on the other hand, has established himself as an "authority" who is better at web searching for journal articles than actually understanding physiology, biochemistry and, in some cases, logic.

    I am confident that heavy alcohol use contributes to decreased testosterone production, due to many biological pathways including the requirement of NAD+ in the metabolism of alcohol. Anecdotal evidence, however, has shown me that even when binge drinking, people rarely have issues manifest due to reduced testosterone.


    TL;DR - Ignore the troll and have a beer
    OK, I guess that's why limp d*ck is so famously connected with men who have drank too much alcohol. Besides, where did I say anything about testosterone in this thread besides saying that drinking a small amount increases it? If my logic is faulty point out the flaws instead of churlishly implying you can but then you don't. Personal attacks are so completely weak guys. I think you can do better than that but then again maybe you're just being unnecessarily defensive and you can't. Clearly Chas has the numbers of a lot of the regulars in the beer forum: bizarrely and unnecessarily defensive.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    OK, I guess that's why limp d*ck is so famously connected with men who have drank too much alcohol.
    "Limp d*ck" is due to vasodilation of blood vessels that aren't able to close. Not decreased testosterone which is the point of this thread.

    Alcoholics, on the other hand, suffer from other problems. Casual drinkers don't have to worry.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    "Limp d*ck" is due to vasodilation of blood vessels that aren't able to close. Not decreased testosterone which is the point of this thread.

    Alcoholics, on the other hand, suffer from other problems. Casual drinkers don't have to worry.
    I still didn't say anything about decreased testosterone and YOU still haven't pointed out any flaws in my logic. You sure are accomplished at being condescending though. What's the definition of a "casual" drinker anyway? A guy wearing loafers and a cardigan while he drinks?

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    Haha good thread you got here people..I'll drink beer any day and any alcoholic beverage.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFryauff View Post
    I'm not sure if you were touched by beer inappropriately as a young child, but it would explain a bit.
    I'm not sure if you were touched inappropriately by facts as a child but it would explain a lot of the bizarre defensiveness when confronted by them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    I still didn't say anything about decreased testosterone and YOU still haven't pointed out any flaws in my logic. You sure are accomplished at being condescending though. What's the definition of a "casual" drinker anyway? A guy wearing loafers and a cardigan while he drinks?

    Here the following informal logic flaws are present in the statement above:
    shifting the burden of proof
    fallacy of the beard
    possibly even an appeal to ridicule.

    It isn't in the above quote, but you have a habit of begging the question.

    I am certain there are others...
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    Here the following informal logic flaws are present in the statement above:
    shifting the burden of proof
    fallacy of the beard
    possibly even an appeal to ridicule.

    It isn't in the above quote, but you have a habit of begging the question.

    I am certain there are others...
    Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it so.
    Oh, oh, oh...
    This one is a termination cliche'
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    Oh, oh, oh...
    This one is a termination cliche'
    It's customary to provide examples and proof when making assertions. Maybe that doesn't apply to people who only wish to be condescending though. My only premise is this: beer in small quantities is fine and even improves certain areas of health, beer in large quantities is damaging to health and what makes a large quantity is smaller than many people think. Why so defensive? Have a nice day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wahday View Post

    A good deal of research that starts out with animals eventually moves to humans for more long term study. But as far as testing medicines, treatments, disease, etc., using animal test subjects is very reliable and helps researchers get to their conclusions more quickly.

    Performing this research on animals does not make it any less scientifically significant or reliable.
    I understand exactly where animal research fit in to science. However, when an internet warrior references only research conducted on rats, with no other supporting evidence or context (context being overlooked far more than it should), I'll take the proverbial. Typical route from 'some research shows this' to 'you are less of a man' with the way this particular research is presented by the likes of the OP.

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    I provided exactly what you asked for... you asked someone to point out the flaws in your logic. I did exactly that. Now, you are moving the "goal post."

    Note: Moving the goal post is an informal logic fallacy. Moving the goal post is changing the level of acceptable proof during a conversation. It leads me to believe that you will not accept any amoount of proof that does not agree with your "cherry picked" facts. (Cherry picked facts are chosen by a person soley because those facts agree with a pre-selected opinion.)
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    We're not annoyed by the facts. We're annoyed by you constantly pointing out the facts in every thread that has the least bit touch on health. We get it, more than1-2 beers a day is deleterious to our health; we choose to make choices that negatively affect our health, you do not. Congrats, now, run along Sally, the adults are trying to have a conversation about one of our favorite things and don't need to keep being reminded that it's killing us since we already have a pretty good idea about it.
    Quoted since you still don't seem to grasp the fact that we are not bothered by facts. It is you, as an Internet indentity and real person, that bothers us. Your inability to understand this simple fact is astoundingly mind-boggling. get off the Internet and go ride a bike.

    Edit: I reported that spam, y'all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    I provided exactly what you asked for... you asked someone to point out the flaws in your logic. I did exactly that. Now, you are moving the "goal post."

    Note: Moving the goal post is an informal logic fallacy. Moving the goal post is changing the level of acceptable proof during a conversation. It leads me to believe that you will not accept any amoount of proof that does not agree with your "cherry picked" facts. (Cherry picked facts are chosen by a person soley because those facts agree with a pre-selected opinion.)
    Wow, and they say I'm annoying. You made statements with no examples or proof. Prove my premise wrong that beer in large quantities is harmful. I have posted numerous scientific studies that say it is. Clearly your only purpose here is to be churlish, smarmy and condescending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    Quoted since you still don't seem to grasp the fact that we are not bothered by facts. It is you, as an Internet indentity and real person, that bothers us. Your inability to understand this simple fact is astoundingly mind-boggling. get off the Internet and go ride a bike.

    Edit: I reported that spam, y'all.
    Free radicals in food cause cancer and shorten life. If you eat a near starving diet with good nutrition you can extend your life. No thanks. I'll enjoy the simple pleasures of good beer, wine, food, sex, etc. until I die. Which will probably be by an accident like being hit by a bus. Which chances are increased by playing in traffic on foot or on a bike (don't need no study to know this). But I still choose to play.

    Wouldn't that just piss you off to die a shortened, unfulfilled life? Phuck abstinence!

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    I never proposed the premise that in large quantitiies beer is harmful. It is not up to me to prove a claim I did not make. That could be considered "wishful thinking".

    Are you changing the subject from: point out the logic flaws? to an "ad hominem" attack on me because I provided what you requested?
    I was gonna stop by and see you, but the Jehovas witnesses came by. When they left I started drinking. Voicemail from Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    I never proposed the premise that in large quantitiies beer is harmful. It is not up to me to prove a claim I did not make. That could be considered "wishful thinking".

    Are you changing the subject from: point out the logic flaws? to an "ad hominem" attack on me because I provided what you requested?
    I'd rep you more, but I can't yet.

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    I contest the study on the grounds that beer goggles do not make women less attractive. On the contrary, they make all women more appealing (sometimes to a gentlemans amazement the following morning). In other words, beer makes men more able to perform. Low testosterone is supposed to make men less able to perform, yes? Study refuted.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Wow, and they say I'm annoying. You made statements with no examples or proof. Prove my premise wrong that beer in large quantities is harmful. I have posted numerous scientific studies that say it is. Clearly your only purpose here is to be churlish, smarmy and condescending.

    This trend is getting tiresome, there have now been like half a dozen threads on this cancer/testosterone/health in respect to beer in the last few months. Each one of them results in TL1 arguing with users on and on for pages.

    TL1 you need to chill; like I have been requesting now in each of these health threads. They continue simply due to your persistent religious like devotion to informing us of our bad drinking habbits. I am starting to find you more troll-ish for each of these threads that pop up.
    Chill out dude, we get it, we alllllllll get it.

    This subforum is supposed to be about enjoying beer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    I understand exactly where animal research fit in to science. However, when an internet warrior references only research conducted on rats, with no other supporting evidence or context (context being overlooked far more than it should), I'll take the proverbial. Typical route from 'some research shows this' to 'you are less of a man' with the way this particular research is presented by the likes of the OP.
    Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure people understand that there is nothing odd or unreliable about doing research on animals as far as how that data translates to humans.

    This thread is really stomping on my enjoyment of beer. Boo! Not because of the impacts on testosterone levels but for all the buzz-killing animosity. Seriously, anyone who doesn't consider that excess consumption of alcohol is not good for your health in innumerable ways is not going to be helped by something posted in here. This is information readily available in the popular press and any lay person's medical source. I'm sure we are all well aware. What we choose to do with that info is up to us. I choose to drink responsibly and in moderation (except on occasion...)

    Next I'm going to learn that my car is polluting the planet - tell me something I don't know...

    Like what are the results of lowered testosterone levels? Why would one care? Osteoperosis, fatty deposits around the middle and on organs, depression and more are all potential impacts of lowered testosterone, though I don't see any discussion of that here. Regardless, I don't think the level of drop cited in those studies is high enough to cause "hypogonadism" which is what causes these ancillary problems.

    Yeah, I just said "tiny balls" in medical speak!

    All men experience a drop in testosterone levels after around 30. The issue is how far and how does it impact you. Low or no sex drive is one of the main indicators for this issue, so if you are not experiencing that, its probably not at a level to cause concern. not that I am a doctor...

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    I never proposed the premise that in large quantitiies beer is harmful. It is not up to me to prove a claim I did not make. That could be considered "wishful thinking".

    Are you changing the subject from: point out the logic flaws? to an "ad hominem" attack on me because I provided what you requested?
    Changing what subject? What are you talking about, do you even know? My premise in this and other like threads is that beer in small quantities has some healthy benefits but in large quantities is harmful and dangerous. So what logic flaws are you exposing? The analogy I made for Klugerjr between a fragile bike part and beer was what exposed the flaws in his logic. I have no idea whatever else you're trying to refute and I have a feeling you don't either because you don't bother to identify it. Then jmartino piles on, not having Clue One either. Guys get another beer, I think you may be suffering from withdrawal symptoms.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    This trend is getting tiresome, there have now been like half a dozen threads on this cancer/testosterone/health in respect to beer in the last few months. Each one of them results in TL1 arguing with users on and on for pages.
    Don't click on the threads then. Why do you even bother? I'm not trolling not spamming just keeping it real dude. I have said nothing untrue or profane, all the imagined trolling is in your mind. Why do you folks protest so much anyway? Think about it. THAT is what energizes this continuing conversation, the constant denial of the facts. That and the continuous attempt to paint folks like Chas who are simply asking questions and presenting facts about the health effects of beer as some sort of wackos. It's offensive and if you think you can get away with that just because there are more of you that would prefer to not know than us that would you're seriously wrong. I am tenacious against hateful bullies, always have been, always will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    This subforum is supposed to be about enjoying beer.
    I enjoy beer almost everyday. The spastic attacks on me from the irrationally outraged folks in this forum don't prevent that. Why should you be any different?

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