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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Yes I do but since you've been a bit rude I think I'll make you look it up yourself if you're really that interested in the topic. I will tell you for starters that N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is the most commonly administered antidote to substances that damage the liver in overdose like alcohol, acetaminophen, sedatives etc. Take it an hour before drinking and the amount of acetlyaldehyde produced in your body is drastically reduced.
    I don't think I've been rude, I think I've just stated my point of view, in my usual and sometimes hilarious way.


    You mentioned NAC previously and I am honestly interested what real evidence is available on these benefits you talk about.

    I figure I could do the research, but you are talking like you have this info on the tips of your fingertips, and it is common good forum etiquette to be able to site references for claims you make. I know I would.

  2. #77
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    Question for Vitabrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitabrew View Post
    Please re-read the title of the graph you posted (the title is in the link but not in your post), it is not a graph depicting actual causes of death but comparative causes, or in other words they compare some causes that contribute to death. Also note, they do not include obesity or sedative lifestyle which are huge contributors to disease, and obesity is on par with smoking as a contributor to disease & death. Lastly, the graph is not from JAMA but NCI.

    Since you were not able to produce any of these meta-analysis studies, I did a Medline search looking for them. I am sincerely interested in reading them. Unfortunately, I kept on running into study after study, after study showing health benefits of light to moderate drinking. There were also a couple studies from China that did not show health benefit, but also showed no harm in elderly Chinese who drink moderately vs those who do not.

    As part of my profession I review and subscribe to many of the major, peer-reviewed medical journals. Have been doing so for 15 years and can't recall seeing one meta-analysis that claimed moderate drinking increased mortality.
    Can you share your opinion on Dr. Anderson's article ? Beer Drinking May Speed Pancreatic Cancer Onset
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Can you share your opinion on Dr. Anderson's article ? Beer Drinking May Speed Pancreatic Cancer Onset
    Sure, would be glad to.

    First the title of the article is not in concert with the info given in the body of the text, but we all know we need an attention grabbing title to get people to read. Unfortunately, if one only reads the title it is horribly misleading.

    The salient part of the article is this: Comparing beer, wine and hard liquor, the team found that beer lowered the age of developing pancreatic cancer most, Anderson said. When she compared beer drinkers to non-beer drinkers, the effect was statistically significant; however, when she considered other variables that may affect cancer onset, the effect disappeared.

    In other words, when one accounts for other risk factors for pancreatic cancer such as obesity, being African American, family history of pancreatic cancer, (all are well known risk factors for pancreatic cancer), etc... then there is no significant lowering of the age of onset of pancreatic cancer.

  4. #79
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    This thread is getting annoying. Just like the "eating garbage before a ride" thread. Go join some medical forum and throw your pathetic attempts at being some sort of life changing influence in there. Don't visit the beer forum if you don't drink beer because we don't want you here. I assume the OP wasn't reaching out to d-bags who want to preach a bunch of garbage. Shut up and go start a non-beer thread and perhaps invite the vegan folks to it.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    That is actually from too much rapid frantic breathing which is usually caused by an anxiety problem like drinking too much alcohol often is. Normal breathing of umcontamimated air carries no negative effects. Yet another rationalization.


    Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2
    Correct that it's not from too much air, but rather too much CO2 exhalation. It can be induced without anxiety, however. People can voluntarily hyperventilate at any given time.

    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Not at all. It's not too much air per se. It's caused by too much, too fast breathing of air, upsetting the balance of inhalation and exhalation blood gases. I'm lovin the never ending rationalizations to avoid the obvious fact that drinking "moderate" amounts of alcohol are related to dna damage that creates bodily conditions favorable to inducing cancer.
    It's not a rationalization, it was just a fun comment in the line of logic that states "everything in moderation." Including breathing.

    As you already know, and have posted about, the increased cancer risk is somewhat offset by the decreased risk of heart disease and related disorders. And the studies delivering this information are all meta-analyses, which can be open to interpretation (or poor analysis.)

  6. #81
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    Were still going eh? See, if it weren't for TL1 and his individual views this thread would have never gotten this far. 3

    Here is something too help out:
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  7. #82
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    If the beer is free I will be there
    MMMMMMMMMMMMMM beer

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    Last edited by Burnt-Orange; 12-11-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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  8. #83
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    These last two posts

    I am divinely shell shocked and pleasantly surprised ! I think we are gonna leave it as a flawed survey and that beer is no better or worse than other drinks unless Dr. Anderson wants to weigh in. Maybe someone living in Michigan on this thread can help out and contact her ?
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Were still going eh? See, if it weren't for TL1 and his individual views this thread would have never gotten this far.
    If it were just my individual opinion without any scientific basis, I wouldn't post it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beer and cancer ?-unicorn-kitty.jpeg  


  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    So we agree that moderate drinking (2 normal beers/day) on average does not increase risk of earlier death?
    Not really. The subject was cancer not earlier death. Also, whatever cardioprotective health benefits beer may impart to some drinkers are not likely to apply universally.

    ABSTRACT

    Aims Most, but not all, epidemiological studies suggest a cardioprotective association for low to moderate average alcohol consumption. The objective was to quantify the dose–response relationship between average alcohol consumption and ischaemic heart disease (IHD) stratified by sex and IHD end-point (mortality versus morbidity).

    Methods A systematic search of published studies using electronic databases (1980–2010) identified 44 observational studies (case–control or cohort) reporting a relative risk measure for average alcohol intake in relation to IHD risk. Generalized least-squares trend models were used to derive the best-fitting dose–response curves in stratified continuous meta-analyses. Categorical meta-analyses were used to verify uncertainty for low to moderate levels of consumption in comparison to long-term abstainers.

    Results The analyses used 38 627 IHD events (mortality or morbidity) among 957 684 participants. Differential risk curves were found by sex and end-point. Although some form of a cardioprotective association was confirmed in all strata, substantial heterogeneity across studies remained unexplained and confidence intervals were relatively wide, in particular for average consumption of one to two drinks/day.

    Conclusions A cardioprotective association between alcohol use and ischaemic heart disease cannot be assumed for all drinkers, even at low levels of intake. More evidence on the overall benefit–risk ratio of average alcohol consumption in relation to ischaemic heart disease and other diseases is needed in order to inform the general public or physicians about safe or low-risk drinking levels.
    The cardioprotective association of average alcohol consumption and ischaemic heart disease: a systematic review and meta-analysis - Roerecke - 2012 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCtrailMonkey View Post
    This thread is getting annoying. Just like the "eating garbage before a ride" thread. Go join some medical forum and throw your pathetic attempts at being some sort of life changing influence in there. Don't visit the beer forum if you don't drink beer because we don't want you here. I assume the OP wasn't reaching out to d-bags who want to preach a bunch of garbage. Shut up and go start a non-beer thread and perhaps invite the vegan folks to it.
    Yet you made a conscious choice to click on it. Brilliant. I know comfortable ignorance is very desirable to many people, it's the human condition but this is actually the kind of rude and ignorant post that strongly motivates me to post more on the subject.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Yet you made a conscious choice to click on it. Brilliant. I know comfortable ignorance is very desirable to many people, it's the human condition but this is actually the kind of rude and ignorant post that strongly motivates me to post more on the subject.
    This thread is like the Howerd Stern haters deal. If you hate him so much why do you keep listening to him. Answer ... Hater says....We want to see what he says next !
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitabrew View Post
    Please re-read the title of the graph you posted (the title is in the link but not in your post), it is not a graph depicting actual causes of death but comparative causes, or in other words they compare some causes that contribute to death. Also note, they do not include obesity or sedative lifestyle which are huge contributors to disease, and obesity is on par with smoking as a contributor to disease & death. Lastly, the graph is not from JAMA but NCI.

    Since you were not able to produce any of these meta-analysis studies, I did a Medline search looking for them. I am sincerely interested in reading them. Unfortunately, I kept on running into study after study, after study showing health benefits of light to moderate drinking. There were also a couple studies from China that did not show health benefit, but also showed no harm in elderly Chinese who drink moderately vs those who do not.

    As part of my profession I review and subscribe to many of the major, peer-reviewed medical journals. Have been doing so for 15 years and can't recall seeing one meta-analysis that claimed moderate drinking increased mortality.

    The JAMA article had no graph, it was just the same topic. Whether these lifestyle choices are or aren't "actual causes or not was the point. The JAMA article says they are. And I did post an article regarding a meta-analytical study about light drinking and cancer. Perhaps you chose to ignore it?

  14. #89
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    Tl1 has an response for it all... and this thread is gaining speed.

    Grab a drink boys this has potential..
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  15. #90
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    I'm 40 years old and have been a "moderate" beer drinker for the past 10 years (2 to 3 beers a night, sometimes more). I've managed to live longer than 100% of people in the same age group or younger, throughout the history of the world (God bless their souls), who who have died from non beer drinking related illnesses. Just sayin'.......

  16. #91
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    This study pegs the optimal median alcohol consumption for health at half a drink a day.

    Abstract

    Objective To estimate the impact of achieving alternative average population alcohol consumption levels on chronic disease mortality in England.

    Design A macro-simulation model was built to simultaneously estimate the number of deaths from coronary heart disease, stroke, hypertensive disease, diabetes, liver cirrhosis, epilepsy and five cancers that would be averted or delayed annually as a result of changes in alcohol consumption among English adults. Counterfactual scenarios assessed the impact on alcohol-related mortalities of changing (1) the median alcohol consumption of drinkers and (2) the percentage of non-drinkers.

    Data sources Risk relationships were drawn from published meta-analyses. Age- and sex-specific distributions of alcohol consumption (grams per day) for the English population in 2006 were drawn from the General Household Survey 2006, and age-, sex- and cause-specific mortality data for 2006 were provided by the Office for National Statistics.


    Results The optimum median consumption level for drinkers in the model was 5 g/day (about half a unit), which would avert or delay 4579 (2544 to 6590) deaths per year. Approximately equal numbers of deaths from cancers and liver disease would be delayed or averted (∼2800 for each), while there was a small increase in cardiovascular mortality. The model showed no benefit in terms of reduced mortality when the proportion of non-drinkers in the population was increased.

    Conclusions Current government recommendations for alcohol consumption are well above the level likely to minimise chronic disease. Public health targets should aim for a reduction in population alcohol consumption in order to reduce chronic disease mortality.




    What is the optimal level of population alcohol consumption for chronic disease prevention in England? Modelling the impact of changes in average consumption levels -- Nichols et al. 2 (3) -- BMJ Open

  17. #92
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    Dang ... got to go to work

    Don't forget about Vitabrew. He's gonna have more to say ! Good to see were having some fun with this deadly serious thread !
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

  18. #93
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    The fact that beer drinkers live until their 80s and 90s shows how unreliable some of the "beer will kill you sooner than you will die otherwise" studies are. Here is one story about a 101 year old man who drinks beer and runs marathons! I'll bet you part of the reason this guy is still alive is BECAUSE of his beer consumption!

    101-Year Old Dude Who Drinks Beer and Runs Marathons Is Bro as Sh*t - BroBible.com

  19. #94
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    You know who will die of cancer? People who are too righteous.

  20. #95
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    I think life expectancy is 90% genetics and 10% lifestyle
    And to all of those who agree I will raise a glass and drink to that

    Sj
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  21. #96
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    Logic problems everywhere.
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  22. #97
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    How best to use this relatively new information about beer and cancer? Not sure but I don't think guilt ever helps anything so if you get cancer after years of slammin' beers I wouldn't beat yourself up for the beer drinking, it may or may NOT be related. If you're maybe looking for a way of improving long term health, cutting back to one or two a day and using anti-alcohol supplements before drinking might not be a bad idea. If you just want to drink beer, who am I to say anything about it? Go for it! Anyway, I'm not BSing anyone, not pushing any agendas or trying to market a product to you, so you can be sure of that much anyway.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    How best to use this relatively new information about beer and cancer? Not sure but I don't think guilt ever helps anything so if you get cancer after years of slammin' beers I wouldn't beat yourself up for the beer drinking, it may or may NOT be related. If you're maybe looking for a way of improving long term health, cutting back to one or two a day and using anti-alcohol supplements before drinking might not be a bad idea. If you just want to drink beer, who am I to say anything about it? Go for it! Anyway, I'm not BSing anyone, not pushing any agendas or trying to market a product to you, so you can be sure of that much anyway.
    So now 1 or 2 is ok? I sense a subtle shift in position.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    haha, no kidding, when I saw the title i figured it had to be him again.


    If beer caused cancer there would of been cancer outbreaks going back way into history, beer has been around a long time, cancer is a relatively new thing.
    Actually, we are just able to detect cancer better now, so the statistics are going to be skewed.

    That all said. I like beer, I've had cancer. Hell, I've had both at the same time, and I'm still alive

  25. #100
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    Remember folks

    My post is not as much beer and cancer as it is ... beer and "pancreatic cancer" The doctor is an expert in the specialty of Pancreatic, etc. Not in all forms of cancer. We still don't know if this study/survey she did holds water. OK ... the beer and cancer title was a bit of a hook ... I admit it. The curiosity about it for me is genuine. -AR
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

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