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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    It's when you pull a made up statement out of your rectum which makes it stinkier than pulling it from thin air.
    Speaking of pulling on things. Maybe its time to pull the plug on this thread ? Prolly should have not put this one up ! Yes or No ?
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Actually, too much air results in respiratory alkalosis via hyperventilation. Which can be dangerous.

    +1 that just about anything, in excess, can be dangerous.
    That is actually from too much rapid frantic breathing which is usually caused by an anxiety problem like drinking too much alcohol often is. Normal breathing of umcontamimated air carries no negative effects. Yet another rationalization.


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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Another point. I tried figuring it out but cant find a good and accurate number relating to ALL cancer directly linked to alcohol.

    I would be willing to wager that deaths related to drunk driving, alcoholism (non-cancer related) and just the "YOLO" stupidity under the influence, would vastly out number the deaths linked to alcohol induced cancer. For example apx 47,000 are related to these causes. (source= Alcohol Related Injuries and Deaths in the US | Recovery First)

    My Point? one can argue that the deaths and dangers related to irresponsible drinking are much higher than cancer.
    So that makes alcohol related cancer all good then?

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  4. #54
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    Tl1: jtmartino said "Actually, too much air results in respiratory alkalosis via hyperventilation. Which can be dangerous."

    Via=by way of
    Hyperventilation=rapid, frantic breathing

    You said "That is actually from too much rapid frantic breathing which is usually caused by an anxiety problem like drinking too much alcohol often is. Normal breathing of umcontamimated air carries no negative effects. Yet another rationalization."

    You basically just corroborated his post, why exactly do you think he's wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    It's when you pull a made up statement out of your rectum which makes it stinkier than pulling it from thin air.
    I just let them fly, my stank don't stank to me

    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Speaking of pulling on things. Maybe its time to pull the plug on this thread ? Prolly should have not put this one up ! Yes or No ?
    Heck No, this keeps things interesting around here, its the internet, one can't take it seriosly! Keep it! it will get derailed shortly enough and end up with a bunch of kitty gif's or unicorn pictures...

    Edit: TL1 is common around here, he is like that crazy vegan friend that is fun to invite to meat bbq's.

    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    So that makes alcohol related cancer all good then?
    You lost me on this one. GUESS WHAT !?!?!?! TL1 its almost 4:00, and i am going to a local watering hole right after i get off work! I am going to cheers to you and your concern for my health,
    My Bike: FORM Cycles Titanium Prevail 29er

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    Tl1: jtmartino said "Actually, too much air results in respiratory alkalosis via hyperventilation. Which can be dangerous."

    Via=by way of
    Hyperventilation=rapid, frantic breathing

    You said "That is actually from too much rapid frantic breathing which is usually caused by an anxiety problem like drinking too much alcohol often is. Normal breathing of umcontamimated air carries no negative effects. Yet another rationalization."

    You basically just corroborated his post, why exactly do you think he's wrong?
    Not at all. It's not too much air per se. It's caused by too much, too fast breathing of air, upsetting the balance of inhalation and exhalation blood gases. I'm lovin the never ending rationalizations to avoid the obvious fact that drinking "moderate" amounts of alcohol are related to dna damage that creates bodily conditions favorable to inducing cancer.

  7. #57
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    I'm not rationalizing anything, I couldn't give a **** about the consequences; I know what they are and I--as an educated adult--still choose to drink, sometimes to excess.

    What you are doing however is arguing semantic minutiae to avoid saying you and jtmartino agree on a point irrespective of your stances on cancer and drinking linkage. That's fine you two disagree but, call a spade a spade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Heck No, this keeps things interesting around here, its the internet, one can't take it seriosly! Keep it! it will get derailed shortly enough and end up with a bunch of kitty gif's or unicorn pictures...
    What about a kitty that IS a unicorn?





    /end thread
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

  9. #59
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    Woah! Best picture ever. [/thread] indeed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    I'm not convinced that the positive cardiovascular effects of alcohol consumption can't be replicated without the cancer risk by other practices like say tai chi. If one simply wanted to continue a drinking habit and rationalize a health benefit for it that probably doesn't sound like much fun though.

    That's a silly argument. The benefits of tai chi haven nothing to do with the discussion. The point is that all cause mortality goes down with moderate drinking.

  11. #61
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    The real problem with beer is that it extends your life so much it gives cancer more time to develop.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    That's a silly argument. The benefits of tai chi haven nothing to do with the discussion. The point is that all cause mortality goes down with moderate drinking.
    Not according to the latest meta analysis studies that said anything more than one drink a day carried definite cancer and other disease risks. That was my point that you don't need to accept the disease risks of alcohol to get the supposed cardiovascular benefits. Like I said though if you're just looking for a reason to keep drinking, the cardiovascular benefits may be enough to do it for you. On that subject, I think the benefits of that are caused simply by allowing people to relax a bit in this crazed zombie monkey house of a world.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Not according to the latest meta analysis studies that said anything more than one drink a day carried definite cancer and other disease risks. That was my point that you don't need to accept the disease risks of alcohol to get the supposed cardiovascular benefits. Like I said though if you're just looking for a reason to keep drinking, the cardiovascular benefits may be enough to do it for you. On that subject, I think the benefits of that are caused simply by allowing people to relax a bit in this crazed zombie monkey house of a world.
    The link I posted is an analysis from September 2012. Got something more recent than that?
    And you seem to be missing the point about total mortality.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post

    Besides that, the damaging effects of alcohol caused, cancer causing acetaldehyde can be minimized to near zero by ingesting certain sulfur containing supplements and vitamins before drinking, making your Puritan "relative risk" assessment to enjoy beer but accept a cancer risk in the process look pretty ridiculous.

    Can you site any scientific references to support this statement?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by monzie View Post
    I'm not rationalizing anything, I couldn't give a **** about the consequences; I know what they are and I--as an educated adult--still choose to drink, sometimes to excess.

    What you are doing however is arguing semantic minutiae to avoid saying you and jtmartino agree on a point irrespective of your stances on cancer and drinking linkage. That's fine you two disagree but, call a spade a spade.
    You're actually the one arguing "semantic minutiae". The point was made regarding "anything worth having" having mandatory "negative side effects" and I used air as an example of such a thing that didn't. If one is hyperventilating or breathing air too rapidly it's not an example of air being bad in itself and having neg. side effects but of not processing it correctly or misusing it. Drinking enough alcohol to induce conditions favorable for inducing cancer conditions doesn't involve what had been thought of as (2-3 drinks) misusing it but using it "normally". I have never had any negative effects from breathing air btw. As a lifelong asthmatic I have had negative side effects from time to time from not getting enough of it though.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    I just let them fly, my stank don't stank to me

    Heck No, this keeps things interesting around here, its the internet, one can't take it seriosly! Keep it! it will get derailed shortly enough and end up with a bunch of kitty gif's or unicorn pictures...
    It's amazing how many people can't handle mere words, especially when they're not hateful or ignorant words. On that subject all you neg-reppers can kiss my furry @ss. Not one of you has had one single intelligent thing to say in response to my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Edit: TL1 is common around here, he is like that crazy vegan friend that is fun to invite to meat bbq's.
    I LOVE BBQ but we know charring meat creates carcinogens too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    You lost me on this one. GUESS WHAT !?!?!?! TL1 its almost 4:00, and i am going to a local watering hole right after i get off work! I am going to cheers to you and your concern for my health,
    Hope you had a good one!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    The real problem with beer is that it extends your life so much it gives cancer more time to develop.
    True dat ... If it keeps someone from driving their car off a cliff during a depressed time in their life. Maybe not the best example but you get the picture!
    You became weak loafing around in that big girly gear! -Soares

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    It's amazing how many people can't handle mere words, especially when they're not hateful or ignorant words. On that subject all you neg-reppers can kiss my furry @ss.
    Personally I own up to my negative mod reps, so if you get one from me you know it is from me. I don't favor the way one can hide behind a negative rep on this site.

    Not one of you has had one single intelligent thing to say in response to my posts.
    Have you ever thought that is because your posts lack any sort of sense to begin with.... What I mean by that is you lack sense in your troll like posts. You don't see us going into an MMA forum and posting links to studies about how getting punched and kicked in ones head repeatedly can lead to long lasting health problems..... It may be true, but if we did that we would get punched and kicked in the head for purposely irritating the main user-base of that kind of forum.

    Every-time I see a stupid post about how something may or may not be yet another cause of cancer I immediately disregard it as yet another un-proven statistic.

    Please, please go troll in the Clydesdale forums, go tell them that they can't be overweight and ride MTB because it leads to cancer and see if you get warm reception there......
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    The link I posted is an analysis from September 2012. Got something more recent than that?
    And you seem to be missing the point about total mortality.
    The link you posted translates into 2 drinks of "normal strength beer" a day for men and one drink a day for women, correct me if I'm wrong. So...not sure what point you're trying to make. Other studies have stated any more than one drink a day is a problem.

    [Alcohol intake--a two-edged sword. Part 2: Protective effects of alcohol and recommendations for its safe use].

    [Article in German]
    Ströhle A, Wolters M, Hahn A.
    Source

    Leibniz Universität Hannover, Institut für Lebensmittelwissenschaft und Humanernährung, Hannover. stroehle@nutrition.uni-hannover.de

    Abstract

    Excessive alcohol consumption causes numerous complications. However, alcohol does not only show adverse side effects: Moderate alcohol consumption improves the lipid profile as well as the insulin sensitivity and reduces the risk of cardiovascular events, diabetes mellitus type 2 and gall stones. Further, total mortality is decreased. Weighing benefits and risks women should limit alcohol consumption to 10-12 g alcohol/day and men to 20-24 g alcohol/day. Pregnant and breastfeeding women should not drink alcohol at all.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Personally I own up to my negative mod reps, so if you get one from me you know it is from me. I don't favor the way one can hide behind a negative rep on this site.


    Have you ever thought that is because your posts lack any sort of sense to begin with.... What I mean by that is you lack sense in your troll like posts. You don't see us going into an MMA forum and posting links to studies about how getting punched and kicked in ones head repeatedly can lead to long lasting health problems..... It may be true, but if we did that we would get punched and kicked in the head for purposely irritating the main user-base of that kind of forum.

    Every-time I see a stupid post about how something may or may not be yet another cause of cancer I immediately disregard it as yet another un-proven statistic.

    Please, please go troll in the Clydesdale forums, go tell them that they can't be overweight and ride MTB because it leads to cancer and see if you get warm reception there......
    I post about any negative effects related to drinking beer based only on scientific evidence. It's the "beer" forum not the "post only shiny, happy thoughts about beer forum" so anything related to beer is fair game. I do drink beer and I love it and I have never told anyone, especially you, not to drink beer but I'm not putting blinders on and ignoring the evidence about it either. Did you ever think that what you imagine to be trolling is all in your mind because you just don't want to face reality and you're extremely irritated with anyone that doesn't post only happy shiny thoughts about beer?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Can you site any scientific references to support this statement?

    Yes I do but since you've been a bit rude I think I'll make you look it up yourself if you're really that interested in the topic. I will tell you for starters that N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is the most commonly administered antidote to substances that damage the liver in overdose like alcohol, acetaminophen, sedatives etc. Take it an hour before drinking and the amount of acetlyaldehyde produced in your body is drastically reduced.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitabrew View Post
    The graph you posted shows not the actual causes of death but a comparison of activities that contribute to death. There is no question that heavy drinking kills and unfortunately alcoholism is not uncommon. We are discussing moderate beer consumption here, not excessive consumption.

    I would be interested to read the recent studies you refer to that show that more than one drink a day is harmful. If you can, please post a link to these studies.
    If JAMA is going to call these things actual causes of death, I'll take their word for it. I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV.

    Context Modifiable behavioral risk factors are leading causes of mortality in the United States. Quantifying these will provide insight into the effects of recent trends and the implications of missed prevention opportunities.
    Objectives To identify and quantify the leading causes of mortality in the United States.
    JAMA Network | JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association | Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFryauff View Post
    You better take that sense and rational thinking elsewhere partner. This is the Beer Forum!
    Indeed because those ignoring the mounting scientific evidence linking alcohol and cancer at the two or three drinks per day level are the ones displaying "sense and rational thinking" presumably.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    If JAMA is going to call these things actual causes of death, I'll take their word for it. I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV.
    Please re-read the title of the graph you posted (the title is in the link but not in your post), it is not a graph depicting actual causes of death but comparative causes, or in other words they compare some causes that contribute to death. Also note, they do not include obesity or sedative lifestyle which are huge contributors to disease, and obesity is on par with smoking as a contributor to disease & death. Lastly, the graph is not from JAMA but NCI.

    Since you were not able to produce any of these meta-analysis studies, I did a Medline search looking for them. I am sincerely interested in reading them. Unfortunately, I kept on running into study after study, after study showing health benefits of light to moderate drinking. There were also a couple studies from China that did not show health benefit, but also showed no harm in elderly Chinese who drink moderately vs those who do not.

    As part of my profession I review and subscribe to many of the major, peer-reviewed medical journals. Have been doing so for 15 years and can't recall seeing one meta-analysis that claimed moderate drinking increased mortality.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    The link you posted translates into 2 drinks of "normal strength beer" a day for men and one drink a day for women, correct me if I'm wrong. So...not sure what point you're trying to make. Other studies have stated any more than one drink a day is a problem.
    So we agree that moderate drinking (2 normal beers/day) on average does not increase risk of earlier death?
    Last edited by smilinsteve; 10-20-2012 at 07:53 PM.

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