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  1. #1
    live long and huck
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    Why no updates from Prime testers?

    Come on guys, I ordered mine a month ago. How about a little stoke to hold me for a few more months?

    Got my fork, brakes, and XT 10 sp cranks here already. Thinking about WTB Frequency i23 rims, maybe the new ethirteen LG1+ hubs, maybe some Hans Dampfs, looking at the new KS LEV. Aug/Sept is a ways away yet.

  2. #2
    FM
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    I'm digging mine, thats for sure.

    Finally getting in some long climbs and longer descents.. nice, steep technical loamy descents

    The prime is awesome.
    I've provided feedback to Keith- both what I like, and where I thought the prototype could be improved, and it sounds like the production version will have some nice refinements. Sounds like all my comments- pretty minor stuff- will be addressed in the final version.

    Changes made to my proto since I built it up....
    swapped to zero stack upper headset cup (from external) to get the bars lower.
    went to an PUSH'd rp23 shock with very light compression tune, XV can & big hit kit. Prior to that I tried an Elka coil and also an stock rp23 with mid tune, big can.

    I still haven't bothered to try the steep setting
    It just feels pretty dialed as it is now....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Come on guys, I ordered mine a month ago. How about a little stoke to hold me for a few more months?

    Got my fork, brakes, and XT 10 sp cranks here already. Thinking about WTB Frequency i23 rims, maybe the new ethirteen LG1+ hubs, maybe some Hans Dampfs, looking at the new KS LEV. Aug/Sept is a ways away yet.
    Regarding the i23: I had one built up on a cheap hub as a backup wheel for the Scythe. It is an awesome rim. Set up tubeless very easy and has taken its share of beatings. My next set of AM wheels will have these rims.
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  4. #4
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    The more I ride it the more I like it!

    Like FM I submitted my feedback to Keith.

    I swapped out the DHX air for an X Fusion Vector HLR air, what a difference. Couldn't be happier with the new shock and highly recommend it.

    Tried the geometry in both settings but prefer and mainly ride it slack.

    It's a great bike and will be worth the wait!
    The other Fred........

  5. #5
    live long and huck
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    Thanks for the responses, it makes me feel better. It seemed that shortly after I put my deposit down, all posts from you guys stopped. I started to get a little concerned, although my Paradox is so awesome that I shouldn't have had any doubts about the Prime. I'm really looking forward to getting it and hopefully by already having money down I get one from the first batch off the line.

  6. #6
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    You will not be disappointed. It's my favorite bike thus far and I've owned quite a few. Very plush suspension design, yet I don't notice any exaggerated bob on the flats or climbs.

  7. #7
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    It's certainly not because we've gotten bored with them. You'll be pleased.

    Sometimes people say that they bought skills with a new bike. This one feels like I bought confidence. Our big-mountain rides are starting to open up, and I feel like Goofy yodeling down the side of a mountain in old Disney cartoons.

    Like Sane Fred, I switched to a Vector Air HLR, and I'm really pleased with it. Highly recommended.

    edit: Like FM, I started in the "slack" setting, and that's where it's stayed.

    Crappy low-light cellphone snap from the end of last night's ride off the Continental Divide.

    Why no updates from Prime testers?-macpassprime1.jpg
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  8. #8
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    It seemed that shortly after I put my deposit down, all posts from you guys stopped.
    Most of the stoke and feedback has happened off-line... only fair since these are prototypes.

    My buddy $l4yEr picked up a transition bandit 29'er. Very limited ride time on the bandit so far, but the contrast is really interesting. These are very different bikes, the bandit seems great too, but the Prime is obviously geared more towards descending. Lower, slacker, longer, stiffer, heavier, lower leverage ratio with a more progressive feel. The new Bike magazine review sums up the prime prototype pretty well, although with the right shock tune there's very little to no bob or suspension feedback. The reduced weight of the production frames, plus the adjustable geometry, will make for a very versatile bike. The Prime will certainly get 90% of my riding time this season. Taking mine up to whistler soon

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    The new Bike magazine review sums up the prime prototype pretty well, although with the right shock tune there's very little to no bob or suspension feedback. The reduced weight of the production frames, plus the adjustable geometry, will make for a very versatile bike. The Prime will certainly get 90% of my riding time this season.
    Yeah, it's a far better all-rounder than I expected (edit: b/c I built mine with no concern for final weight). The announced changes for the production frames will only enhance that. My Yelli is only seeing duty as a townie and a spare at the moment, poor thing. I thought I'd choose it maybe 20% of the time for our local trails, but so far I haven't.
    Last edited by evasive; 05-24-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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  10. #10
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    That's all great stuff, guys. Thanks. I currently have a Pivot Firebird, which will be sold. Debating whether to keep the Paradox or not, as of lately it get's ridden most of all, I'm giving thought toward making it SS. I already have an SS, so that would probably be sold. I picture myself keeping my Prime full slack and using it for my everywhere and everything bike, built a bit on the heavier duty side. I looked at Bandit29's, but it looks to me that the Prime is THE bike to have. It was put best in one of the other Prime threads, "brickshithouse". The Prime looks rock solid and ready for anything. As I've said, I'm in Arizona, and there is plenty of chunk to thrash this bike on. I'm waiting as patiently as I can.

  11. #11
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    As the current owner of that particular bike nicknamed "brickshithouse", I can affirm all of what you've said. It is stiff and ready to get rowdy. I really think this bike will be a huge hit for Keith and the boys at Banshee.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I really think this bike will be a huge hit for Keith and the boys at Banshee.
    From the research that I've done on their other models, plus almost 2 years experience on my Paradox, I agree. They build a very good product.

  13. #13
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    Well.. my Prime in its current incarnation it..

    Climbs way better than my 26er, feels better at descending than my 26er, has more ground clearance than my 26er, is more nimble than my 26er in steep setting.

    Also i feel way less wasted after 4-5 hr ride than before, what can i say, win win and win situation.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    Well.. my Prime in its current incarnation it..

    Climbs way better than my 26er, feels better at descending than my 26er, has more ground clearance than my 26er, is more nimble than my 26er in steep setting.

    Also i feel way less wasted after 4-5 hr ride than before, what can i say, win win and win situation.
    Nice bike. You guys have really helped with my stoke level!! What kind of climbs are you doing with that 1X setup? I'm trying to decide between 1X or 2X, my crankset will do either so I'll probably build initially 1X, but definitely 10sp rear. We've got some long tough climbs here, but that could just be me because I'm in crappy shape, too much ice cream.
    Low and slack.

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    Around here i have to pedal, a lot, climbs are very short, steep varying between steep rock faces to steep rooty climbs, i'd guess around 20-25 degrees with technical bits thrown in.. 32t is too tall gearing to me and most of riders around here so people either run hammerschmidt, 2x or 28t 1x10 setup, if you try to stand and mash the climbs you just lose traction and spin out because you can't control power.

  16. #16
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    Here's a video I made a couple of months ago, typical of what I ride. I took my 26 FS on this ride, and then repeated it on my Paradox. I was several minutes faster on the hardtail, believe it or not, and that's when I actually made my decision to order a Prime. The Prime ought to eat this terrain right up.

    There's no music, just me grunting and my bike rattling.

    HD

    or not

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/42870386" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
    Low and slack.

  17. #17
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    Nice trail. I think you'll be thrilled with the Prime.
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    Las Retamares in Tenerife is maybe similar terrain, 22min edit from there, i had to cut down like ~25min of riding to make it even somwhat reasonable size.

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/38528605?color=ff9933" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

    Prime was superfun there.

  19. #19
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    Guess we're just having too much fun

    Seriously, great choice, especially watching that vid - The Prime will eat that trail up. What trail is that, looks like my kind of trail? Was that filmed on the Paradox? Must give you quite the beating if it was, as although I love my Paradox it is stiff as hell compared to most other HTs I've tried, but not horribly so like the old Kleins.

    Think you'll be super stoked when you get yours, especially with the weight drop (Keith said about 700g/1.5lbs) and the nice tweaks all over
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Thanks for the responses, it makes me feel better. It seemed that shortly after I put my deposit down, all posts from you guys stopped. I started to get a little concerned, although my Paradox is so awesome that I shouldn't have had any doubts about the Prime. I'm really looking forward to getting it and hopefully by already having money down I get one from the first batch off the line.
    We were asked to not get into too much detail on the bikes characteristics initially, although now that the production version is closer to fruition and there have been mag reviews I'm sure there will be more open discussion.
    It is a great bike that will be greater after the production version goes on a diet, lots of fun for sure!

  21. #21
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    LyNx, that is National Trail on South Mountain, Phoenix, AZ. Yes, I made that video on my Paradox. It was rough, but not really too bad. I may be able to scrounge a couple more short Paradox videos, I'm just now figuring out Vimeo. As I stated above, I ran the very same trail on my Pivot Firebird right before the Paradox and I was substantially faster on the Paradox. My Firebird is an awesome bike, but my riding style is much better suited to 29" wheels.

    sakucee, very similar looking trail to what I ride, steep and chunky, and no place that you want to crash.

    I knew that you guys were sworn to secrecy, but I appreciate the input and the mega-stoke. I ordered my rims last night, decided on the WTB Frequency i23's, also my front hub, going with the new LG1+ from e thirteen. I'm eyeballing the new 35mm Havoc bar/stem from Easton.
    Low and slack.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    It's certainly not because we've gotten bored with them. You'll be pleased.

    Sometimes people say that they bought skills with a new bike. This one feels like I bought confidence. Our big-mountain rides are starting to open up, and I feel like Goofy yodeling down the side of a mountain in old Disney cartoons.

    Like Sane Fred, I switched to a Vector Air HLR, and I'm really pleased with it. Highly recommended.

    edit: Like FM, I started in the "slack" setting, and that's where it's stayed.

    Crappy low-light cellphone snap from the end of last night's ride off the Continental Divide.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	macpassprime1.jpg 
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    Does that HLR wallow mid stroke like the DHX air? I'm considering one for my Rune but Im hesitant since they share very similar designs.

  23. #23
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    No, it doesn't have that issue. Suspension guts are kind of a black box for me, but I doubt they have much in common beyond the piggyback air shock form. The X Fusion has independent HSC and LSC adjustments, for example, so clearly those circuits are different.

    I doubt you'd be disappointed with the Vector Air. It really made a difference to the back end of my Prime. This is the first time I've replaced a stock DHX-A, and the experience was eye-opening. The first time I climbed a steep, loose and rubbly pitch with the Vector installed, the rear wheel just seemed to disappear. It was tracking perfectly and just felt invisible. Halfway up I was saying to myself: "So THIS is what good suspension feels like."
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    I have no problems with my DHX-A after replacing right size canister for my weight..

    I suspect one of problems with DHX-A is the lack of good documentation how to adjust it.

  25. #25
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    Nah, the DHX isn't anything special, despite the PR Fox puts out, the X-Fusion on the other hand having HIGH Speed and LOW speed compression adjustments, well I'd guess whole different story there - no first hand experience, just what all the owners have said. I'll be getting one of their non piggyback shocks for my Prime since I don't do the big hits and such, hoping by end of summer.

    FYI, my DHX feels wallowy as all hell and despite me having the BO all the way out and only 125 PSI in it and proper SAG I CANNOT get it to use full travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    No, it doesn't have that issue. Suspension guts are kind of a black box for me, but I doubt they have much in common beyond the piggyback air shock form. The X Fusion has independent HSC and LSC adjustments, for example, so clearly those circuits are different.
    Para phrase - "Its a fantastic shock"
    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    I have no problems with my DHX-A after replacing right size canister for my weight..

    I suspect one of problems with DHX-A is the lack of good documentation how to adjust it.
    BTW, just came back from a FANTASTIC ride on the Prime, on the sort of terrain it's designed for and I can't say I noticed the weight one bit (it's only when I'm riding with those rich guys on their S-Works and Ultimate C'dales that are 10-12lbs lighter that I notice it when I'm beating them up climbs). Man what fun, absolute blast, can't wait till I have the $$ for the X-Fusion shock to really wake the Prime up.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    LyNx, that is National Trail on South Mountain, Phoenix, AZ. Yes, I made that video on my Paradox. It was rough, but not really too bad. I may be able to scrounge a couple more short Paradox videos, I'm just now figuring out Vimeo. As I stated above, I ran the very same trail on my Pivot Firebird right before the Paradox and I was substantially faster on the Paradox. My Firebird is an awesome bike, but my riding style is much better suited to 29" wheels.
    Ah, come on, you left out all the good stuff from National in the video .

    However, I'm not convinced you're riding the Firebird like it was intended. There shouldn't be any way a hardtail 29er would be faster that 170mm full suspension 26er descending National. You just have to let off the brakes and let the suspension do it's job. I'm not picking on your riding ability, just pointing out my opinion, which doesn't mean much.
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  27. #27
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    Duner, I said it right in my last sentence, my riding style is better suited to 29" wheels. I don't doubt for a minute that I'm not riding my Bird to it's fullest potential, and I won't my Prime either. Up until I built my Paradox, I rode the crap out of my Firebird and thought (and still think) that it is an awesome bike. Now, it doesn't matter what kind of chunk I'm headed out for, I always choose my Paradox. For MY riding style/ability/desire the Paradox is more reassuring. You know, maybe it's not the wheels so much, it could just be a geometry thing where the Paradox works better for me than the Firebird. Could be that I'll like the Paradox better than the Prime. I doubt it though, and I'm betting a pile of new high end parts that the Prime is going to be awesome, in my opinion, for MY riding desires.

    As for the video, that particular day I only did the Morman/Natty loop. It was a time trial so to speak to see if I was as fast on the Paradox as I felt, or of it was an illusion because of the harsher ride with the hard tail. There are some drops, etc though that I do FS that I don't even attempt hardtail.

    I've never claimed that one bike was better than the other, these 2 are definitely apples and oranges, but with what little free time I have, I'm going to ride the bike that I enjoy the most.

    Thanks for your input, it gives me an opportunity to reflect on why I'm doing what I'm doing. Maybe I'll see you out there. I tend to ride more in the summer, less people on the trails and I don't mind the heat. I may do National to Buena Vista this afternoon, high should only be 103.
    Low and slack.

  28. #28
    FM
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    I know National is super rocky, and my local trails tend to be smooth & steeper... but there are many- most even- local trails where I found my yelli screamy to be faster than my rune with a 180 fork. Generally air time is what picks me to choose one bike over another.

    Guys like Chris Akrig and Jinya are great reminders that gear is all personal choice and rider skills make up 99.9% of the mix.

  29. #29
    FM
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    By the way- got about 8k' of descending (mostly shuttled) in over the last 2 days. The prime excels at high-speed rocky wide-open trails like these... no doubt I prefer it over my other bikes for these conditions.
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  30. #30
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    Duner, now that I think about it, the only time that I've successfully cleaned Corona de Loma was on my Paradox, and I've attempted it 3 or 4 times on my Bird. The more that I think about it, the more convinced I am that it's simply a matter of a particular bike fitting me better and working better for me, with my particular riding ability/skill level. I feel the weakest point on my Paradox is the 1 1/8 head tube, the 32mm stanchions, and my pushing 50 year old arse gets a little beat up with the hard tail. The Prime and a Fox 34 should fix all of this.
    Low and slack.

  31. #31
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    Built my front wheel last night. Looky at those nice honkin' big hub flanges. e*thirteen LG1+.
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    Low and slack.

  32. #32
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    Here's a quick vid of a little Paradox rip down lower Corona de Loma. I haven't yet edited my upper C de L vid.


    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/43349972" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
    Low and slack.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Built my front wheel last night. Looky at those nice honkin' big hub flanges. e*thirteen LG1+.
    Looks like a nice wheelset. I don't see many Chub hubs around, and I've always wondered about them.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Looks like a nice wheelset. I don't see many Chub hubs around, and I've always wondered about them.
    We'll see how they hold up. I wanted the advantage of the larger flanges and shorter spokes, obviously, hopefully negating some of the structural disadvantage of the larger rim diameter. I'm a big DT Swiss 240s fan, and it was a toss up between the DT 150mm rear having equally spaced but smaller flanges and the LG1+ larger diameter but unequally spaced flanges. The LG1+ drive side diameter is 91mm, DT about 47mm, huge difference. I thought that instead of the old tried and true I would go with a new offering and try them out. I should be building the rear by next weekend. I'm also a huge Specialized tire fan, I've had great luck with Eskars and Purgatorys but I'm leaning towards trying out some Hans Dampfs for the Prime.
    Low and slack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Come on guys, I ordered mine a month ago. How about a little stoke to hold me for a few more months?

    Got my fork, brakes, and XT 10 sp cranks here already. Thinking about WTB Frequency i23 rims, maybe the new ethirteen LG1+ hubs, maybe some Hans Dampfs, looking at the new KS LEV. Aug/Sept is a ways away yet.
    Optimus, where did you order your prime from?

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    My Prime. I wanted a 29er I feel I can take to Whistler on a regular basis not one that might survive a day or two

    Why no updates from Prime testers?-petes-pics-087.jpgAttachment 701358
    Last edited by pete weber; 06-03-2012 at 06:21 PM.
    bikesonburke

  37. #37
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    Let's hear about that front wheel & fork set up!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahtune69 View Post
    Optimus, where did you order your prime from?
    Any Banshee dealer should be more than happy to accept your deposit. In my case it was Adrenaline Bikes in Orange, CA, same place I bought my Paradox.
    Low and slack.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete weber View Post
    My Prime. I wanted a 29er I feel I can take to Whistler on a regular basis not one that might survive a day or two.
    Is that a Werewolf on the front? Very heavy duty looking set up. So, how does it like Whistler? Without divulging any non-divulgable secrets of course. What's your rear shock of choice on your Prime? Anybody have any thoughts on using the new Cane Creek DBair?
    Low and slack.

  40. #40
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    FM, I like your second pic, coming off the rock. Looks like it would make your hair stand up just a bit.
    Low and slack.

  41. #41
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    My shock is a Manitou ISX6. It has hi and lo speed compression and as I've said in other forums IMHO any shock that a rider cannot adjust the dampening on for they're conditions is STUPID. If the ISX6 was a Fox product it would have swept up 5 years ago.
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    The fork is a Super T with 44 lowers. The stanctions have had 1.5" machined off the bottoms. It has the old school classic Marzocchi plushness
    bikesonburke

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete weber View Post
    The fork is a Super T with 44 lowers. The stanctions have had 1.5" machined off the bottoms. It has the old school classic Marzocchi plushness
    Ah! Interesting....
    Would love to find a way to make a 'zocchi 55 (or similar) to fit on the prime.

    I'll be up in whistler this week as well

  44. #44
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    FM, I like your second pic, coming off the rock. Looks like it would make your hair stand up just a bit.
    Thanks, the picture doesn't quite do it justice, the middle section is completely vertical and the landing is off-camber. Still, can be rolled easily if you line it up right.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Duner, now that I think about it, the only time that I've successfully cleaned Corona de Loma was on my Paradox, and I've attempted it 3 or 4 times on my Bird. The more that I think about it, the more convinced I am that it's simply a matter of a particular bike fitting me better and working better for me, with my particular riding ability/skill level. I feel the weakest point on my Paradox is the 1 1/8 head tube, the 32mm stanchions, and my pushing 50 year old arse gets a little beat up with the hard tail. The Prime and a Fox 34 should fix all of this.
    I hope you don't think I'm picking on you or your riding ability. I understand how some rides just feel right. I felt that way on my Rune. It just fit me in every way and gave me confidence. Unfortunately, I just couldn't get over the pedal feedback and moved on. And to be honest, the portion of National in your video is probably the worst section for a hardtail. The upper portion is more technical but not as choppy. The Prime does look intriguing though
    "Don't feel bad. A lot of people have no talent"

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz View Post
    I hope you don't think I'm picking on you or your riding ability. I understand how some rides just feel right. I felt that way on my Rune. It just fit me in every way and gave me confidence. Unfortunately, I just couldn't get over the pedal feedback and moved on. And to be honest, the portion of National in your video is probably the worst section for a hardtail. The upper portion is more technical but not as choppy. The Prime does look intriguing though
    I don't feel that way at all, it's all good. At the end of the day we're all out there for the same reason, to have fun. I'm very mechanical and I love to tinker with things, and a part of the mtb fun for me is to build bikes.
    Low and slack.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Here's a video I made a couple of months ago, typical of what I ride. I took my 26 FS on this ride, and then repeated it on my Paradox. I was several minutes faster on the hardtail, believe it or not, and that's when I actually made my decision to order a Prime. The Prime ought to eat this terrain right up.
    You based your decision on a single decent on a single trail? Wow, 29ers have people going completely nutters

  48. #48
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    Yeah, I mean really, how can someone tell if a bike feels more confident to them on just one descent
    Quote Originally Posted by zoro View Post
    You based your decision on a single decent on a single trail? Wow, 29ers have people going completely nutters
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoro View Post
    You based your decision on a single decent on a single trail? Wow, 29ers have people going completely nutters
    Not nutters at all, I've has 5 bikes in the last 4 years, 2 of them I built, all but 1 has been a 29er. Those are trails that I ride very often, the day that I made my decision was simply the day that I made my decision, based on slightly controlled information. On that day I was faster and more comfortable on bike A than bike B, with luck bike C (Prime) will be the best of both bike A and B, and according to the opinion of FM will actually be more. Besides, I haven't built a new bike in a year and a half, I've got the itch.
    Low and slack.

  50. #50
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    I apologize to everybody who has contributed an opinion to this thread, I mentioned FM in my last reply simply because he made a statement in one of the other Prime threads that the Prime was more than the sum of it's parts, or something to that effect. All of you that have responded to any of the Prime threads are much appreciated by me. It's your opinions that give me confidence that the conclusions that I have come to are accurate. I came upon the Banshee party a little late. When I bought my Paradox, it was after much research, and right about when I was realizing how awesome that bike was, Banshee was finishing up with the Prime test rider decisions. Had I been 6 months earlier, I would have been gunning hard for one of the prototypes. I've been researching and watching Banshee for about 2 years now and I am convinced that they build a very well engineered and developed product line, and I am very excited to be in the process of purchasing their "latest and greatest".
    Low and slack.

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