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  1. #1
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    V2 Dilemma - Spitfire or Rune??

    So, while I'm waiting to hear back on the upgrade program for my V1 Spitty... I'm beginning to agonize over whether I should step up to a Rune or not. I've been on the Spitty over 18 months, and absolutely love the thing (besides known issues). However, it does hold me back in certain areas, i.e. I struggle to manual, it feels awkward in the air, and I don't hit the bigger drops I used to (especially slow speed ones). That being said, the bike has changed my riding style for the better... and pissed off a lot of friends that I crush on both the ups and downs

    I won't go into the sizing thing too much since that's covered elsewhere, but I'm 5'8 30" inseam w/ long torso. My current Med frame feels a tad long, but I just don't see myself going to a Small for the V2. And it looks like the reach on the V2 Rune may fit a tad better than the V2 Spitty... and I plan to shorten my stem from 50mm to ~30mm.

    What I'd like to achieve is something like this:
    - Keep the same trail shredability of the Spitty, I just can't sacrifice that
    - Get back the playfulness and confidence I had on my Wildcard

    Also, I'm running a 55rc3 ti front and Elka Stage 5 rear. The bike is 31.5lbs with reverb and 2.5/2.4 tires. I'm also running 1x10 with 33x11/36. I'd really like to stick with a single ring and similar weight.

    I would normally email Keith my questions, but thought I'd post here in case others are agonizing over the same decision. Would the Rune suit me better?? I'm kinda struggling with the lack of ride reports for the V2's.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Forgot to mention I'm currently running an Angleset and the Spitty in slack position is 65deg and feels amazing. Wanted to stick with similar geometry. Also like the low standover and bottom bracket heights that the Rune doesn't necessarily have. Hmmm.

    Here's my current setup, sans Elka:
    Photobucket

  3. #3
    Hard funkinī Kraut
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    Hard to tell. I have not ridden a V1 or a V2 Spitfire, or a Rune yet. All I can say that Iīm looking forward to be on a V2 Spitty after almost 5 joyfull Years on a Wildcard. The reason for the Change is hopefully to get the playfullness of the Wildcard combined with more "Trail-Attitude", as my Riding changed through the last few Years towards AM/Trailriding.

    Good to see you have your Spitfire slackened down to 65 Deg Headangle - this is in Fact the same what Iīm planning to do - 65 Deg in the slackest Setting. Therefor almost identical to the new Rune in a lighter Package, because the Rune is somehow "too much" Bike for my Riding ...

    Maybe this Statement from Keith can help a little on your Decision (taken from the 2013 Spitfire-Thread):
    "The spitfire V2 specs will appear on the website when the frames start shipping out. Weight will be a touch heavier than V1, but the frame is stiffer, has more travel, and modilar dropouts dropouts. When production frames are ready we will weigh one and post photo on website. The V2 has a different standard headset... tapered 44/56.

    In terms of balance, geometry and pedaling efficiency the spitfire V2 feels very similar to the V1 despite the exra 13mm of travel. However the suspension is definitely more supple and controlled when riding ard through rough stuff, and so holding the line is easier and you have noticably more traction when railing round sketchy corners and better control over rocks and roots. The V2 is more playful and easier to pop off things, bunny hop, manual and play around on the trail. The fun factor is turned up to 11!"


    Greetings
    NoStyle

  4. #4
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    I have a V2 Rune set to arrive any day here, and I've been wondering if I should have gotten a Spitty. The new Rune looks like a sweet, sweet bike, more like a mini-DH bike that you can huck yet pedal to the top of the mountain. I'm thinking the new spitfire may be more similar to the original Rune V1. I really don't feel like I need more bike than the rune v1 offered- and I wouldn't mind having a slightly lighter bike to throw around. The fact that I can swap over my Xfusion Vector Air would be a huge bonus too. The CS are substantially shorter on both the V2 models, so I expect manualing will be much easier.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    I really don't feel like I need more bike than the rune v1 offered- .
    Go bigger/faster

  6. #6
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    Well I've had a large Prime 29'er for the last 24 hours to demo and it's weight was 32.4lbs setup 1 x10 (which freaking killed me with the 32T ring for where and what I like to ride), Stans Flow EX rims and hubs and Maxxis Ardent 2.4 tires and Reverb dropper and Race Face everything else. I think with a careful build you should be able to keep the Rune under that and for me personally I would like to build a Spitfire @ 30lbs or less. While I drool at the thought of 160mm of travel it's realistically probably more bike than I need. Light, nimble, playful with all day pedal-ability along with (most importantly to me) 650B compatibility is what I'm looking for. Thing is with how you have your Spitfire set up now and the fact you feel it's holding you back some the Rune might be the right choice and possibly a safer choice if you're trying to up your game even more. Just be careful with the build if you want to keep it close to your current 31.5lbs. Also if you found it to be just to much I'm sure you could sell the frame in a heartbeat.

    I jumped at the chance to ride the Prime because it's interesting to ride a 29'er but mostly to experience the KS Link suspension and just check out the build quality of the bike. It's quite stunning in the raw finish, build quality looks nice to me and beefy for sure, and I absolutely loved the KS Link and how it performed with 130mm travel on the 29'er. Maybe it was the 29'er thing going on but I cleared a rock section on this bike I haven't come close to on my others so that made my day right there. A 2 x 10 would transform it for me I think and not make it feel so sluggish otherwise (I like to spin more and need that granny). Length of the bike didn't bother me which I was quite concerned about and even with a 70mm stem the reach seemed fine and especially standing I was nicely centered and weighted over the front end.

    Not sure if any of that helps you but maybe a few tidbits of good info?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  7. #7
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    The V2 spitfire has me concerned. The chainstays are a tad shorter which is better, but they could be a lot shorter IMO. The wheel base getting longer has me scratching my head. They should have gone shorter to enhance the playfulness of the shorter chainstays. It seems like the longer wheelbase would cancel out the qualities of shorter chainstays. Maybe not, though. Bikes can be look one way on paper but feel different in real life. I thought the V1 spitfire would have a shorter cockpit because of the angles but it ended up being a little longer to my surprise.
    I ride a 70mm stem on my v1 spitfire and have wondered if going shorter would help lift the front end up. I've sort of lost interest in trying to lively it up as the pivots are shot. Between the rune and spitfire,
    maybe others cold chime in about the XC characteristics of the Rune. Maybe the rune can pedal just as good as the Spitfire? The weight would be an issue, though. I feel your pain. I'm wondering if I should pony up the extra dough for the V2 spitfire upgrade or just depart banshee altogether.

    The V2 has got to be an improvement for sure and I hope the liveliness has improved.The longer wheelbase seems to me will benefit the downhill but will keep it grounded so much so that the bike will be difficult to maneuver. Berms and turns won't be as quick or tightly arced. And bunnyhopping and manualing will also suffer just as the V1. Maybe Keith can clue us in on why the longer wheelbase? Is it just for downhill stability?

  8. #8
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    hiawatha, it seems to me that you donīt really know how a modern, forward Geometry works, isnīt it?
    If you would check the Geometry V1 vs. V2 you should notice that mainly two Numbers have significantly changed: Reach and therefor Wheelbase plus Reartravel. Everything else does mostly remain the same, except the Chainstays being shorter.

    The Reason for the longer Reach and Wheelbase comes from the steeper Seatangle while keeping the same effective Toptubelength. Itīs like a Parallelogramm that has been shifted more forward from the BB. Because the slack Headangle hasnīt changed that stretches the Wheelbase - nothing more nothing less.
    That means your Position on or over the Bike is more centered, with a lot more Control overall and especially over the Front. This alone makes a longer Wheelbase negligible, but gives more Confidence when the Riding gets fast, rough or steep - up and down. Playfull handling should be even better through the shorter Chainstays and revised Suspension.

    If you have no Idea how Bikes like this ride I would recommend to testride Bikes like Nukeproof Mega or Specialzed Enduro for example. These gives a good insight about such a Geometry and itīs Character.
    If the long Wheelbase is concerning you there are plenty of Trailbikes with average Geometry on the Market, but they will never get (it is almost impossible to do) that "low & slack" Thing the Spitfire is famous for.

  9. #9
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    Hey NoStyle, seems like you and I think the same. I too was on the Wildcard and loving the playfulness. But I mostly do longer trail rides these days w/ some light FR/DH mixed in. The Spitty at 65deg fit the bill perfect for I'd say 80% of the riding I do. I like the idea of the Rune as the be all bike... but I also like being undergunned on a lighter rig and clearing stuff right behind my friends on big bikes.

    I've read the following statement many times getting pumped up for the V2:
    The V2 is more playful and easier to pop off things, bunny hop, manual and play around on the trail. The fun factor is turned up to 11!
    I was actually hoping this thread would spark Keith to gush more about the awesomeness of the new V2 Spitty

    I supposed there's worse decisions than trying to decide between two awesome sleds! Props to Banshee this year.

    Sizing is my main concern, but I think a Med should still work out fine.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the feedback so far everyone! I think the upcoming ride reports Keith promised us will def help the decision. The more I type (see reply to NoStyle) the more I seem to lean towards the V2 Spitty. The reason I got a Spitty in the first place was I became dead honest with my current riding style... longer rides where I like to carve and pop off every widget in sight vs. bigger drops and features I used to gravitate towards. I don't need to slug big heavy bikes around anymore. If the V2 Spitty fun factor is turned up to 11, then it should hopefully help out on the 20% of the riding where I think I need the Rune.

  11. #11
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    No style- I may not be as much of an expert as you in your geo interpretation. I can only decide based on my riding experience. I've seen the geo numbers and realize why the wheelbase increased. To me a longer wheelbase limits maneuverabiilty. The longer reach will allow the rider to use a shorter stem to help lift the bike's front end which i believe was one of the reasons to go longer. The slack headangles alone on the spitfire should give you the stability you need for descending. Of course wheelbase helps, but increasing it I would imagine limits it's playfulness. This is just what I have noticed personally from long term riding on the spitfire, rampant, and wildcard. Personally, it would be great to see even shorter chainstays and wheelbase. I believe this is forward thinking geometry as well for the spitfire. I'm sure the V2 will be a much better ride then the V1. Either way, it's all good. I'm just trying to determine like "Dirty Surfer", how playful the V2 will ride since being able to move the bike underneath me as I'm riding is what I'm looking for in the new V2. For now it's only speculation.

  12. #12
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    Banshee is sending a 650B Rune for the MTBR 650 shootout. Best thing they could do IMHO is with that first Spitfire off the boat in December send it to Francois to also be included in the test even as a late arrival. Not only will he be able to compare it to the Rune but also all the other 650B bikes.

    The new Spitty has me polarized but I want to see a few reviews before ordering a frame set.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtysurfer View Post
    Thanks for the feedback so far everyone! I think the upcoming ride reports Keith promised us will def help the decision. The more I type (see reply to NoStyle) the more I seem to lean towards the V2 Spitty. The reason I got a Spitty in the first place was I became dead honest with my current riding style... longer rides where I like to carve and pop off every widget in sight vs. bigger drops and features I used to gravitate towards. I don't need to slug big heavy bikes around anymore. If the V2 Spitty fun factor is turned up to 11, then it should hopefully help out on the 20% of the riding where I think I need the Rune.
    Hahaha man, I like what you write - thatīs exactly what Iīm thinking over the last 2 Years.
    I guess about 70-90% of my Riding is somehow "Singletrail/Trailriding". The Rest is moderate Parkriding, from jumpy to downhilly Trails. I still love my Wildcard for being such a great Companion on anything Iīve tried to ride, and it helped me so much to evolve Skills and Confidence. The only downer is itīs overall Weight (depending on parts, of course) and the lack of an Inch Seattube, to get the right Saddleheight. This is where Iīm sure the V2 Spitfire has the right Advantages for me. Often thought about the Rune, because when the first Guys got their Frames this Bike/Frame just freaks me - so amazing. But in the real World the Rune has a lot more Capacities than I really need for my Riding.
    I never felt undergunned on the Wildcard, so this should be the same on the Spitfire.

    @ hiawatha-de
    Iīm in no way an Expert for sure!
    All I can say is that I could ride some Bikes with a more Up-to-Date-Geometry and
    immediately loved the Benefits, while havenīt experienced any downside of it. I tuned my Wildcard this Route with a -1,5 Deg ZeroStack Angleset (which steepens Seatangle) and I am still pleased.
    As an Example: On a german MTB-Forum the Nukeproof Mega got lots of attention when it was shortly before itīs Release. Itīs own Thread was filled with Debates according the given Geometry over Pages and Pages, discussing the long Chainstays and the overly long Wheelbase. Letīs say Internet-Speculation at itīs best.
    After the first Customer-Riding-Reports came in everything changed, because it was great on the Uphills, of course shreddable on the Downhills, but a lot more flickable than expected. I could ride one for myself and yes - me, as a short Chainstay-Lover, was impressed because of itīs playfull handling overall. Must be the Combination of Geometry and how the Suspension works.

    From my point of view short Chainstays (which I like, too!) do help on the agile Side, but they are shorter now. Another Point to think about is a more progressive Suspension that helps to pop off stuff. Good chance the V2 Spitty has improved here. And somehow shorter Wheelbase leads to some things you maybe donīt want anymore on a Trailbike: 1. Steeper Headangle and/or 2.) Slacker Seatangle and/or 3.) Shorter Reach.
    Of course like youīve said: Only speculation!!!

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  14. #14
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    not sure how spitfire is better than rune despite weight.

    anybody knows how much weight difference it is between frames.

    It becomes more costly when you have to add angleset, otherwise the geometry looks about same. I would worry less about durability running Rune.

    I think it depends that I have DH bike also, that I may replace Rune with it and tear the track down without any fear

    I think both options are very good.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtysurfer View Post
    Forgot to mention I'm currently running an Angleset and the Spitty in slack position is 65deg and feels amazing. Wanted to stick with similar geometry. Also like the low standover and bottom bracket heights that the Rune doesn't necessarily have. Hmmm.

    Here's my current setup, sans Elka:
    Photobucket
    Awesome set-up of your Spitty! Looks like a mean trail rippin' machine and similar to my 2010 ano black Rune I had, but even slacker and lower!

    I am a bit torn between V2 Rune vs Spitty as well as my riding terrain is on a much smaller scale than N. Van/BC stuff here in NW Oregon and have been liking the idea of going with "less is more" lately for riding mixed terrain to up the challenge with bike handling and fun factor. I have been on a Runes w/angleset over the past few years and SB66 currently for all my riding (mostly trail/AM stuff), but been digging the idea of a "smaller" bike on AM terrain instead of just more bike to make it easier to ride. So thinking V2 Spitty may perhaps be a better bike for me, even though the natural progression is to go V2 Rune instead.
    Ride On!

  16. #16
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    tuff choice, I am lucky enough to have both, and many times i dont know wich one to take, but when the fun in all the way down, is the rune for sure

  17. #17
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    I've got v1 Spitfire which I am incredibly happy with. I just got back from my 2nd week long trip (Asheville, NC area) with it and love it more than ever.

    Before the trip, I went through a complete drivetrain, cockpit, and brakes replacement due to wear and geometry adjustments. Anyways, I dropped some weight in the process and it now lies just under 29lbs with a heavy Transition wheelset. I never have considered myself a weight weenie but I immediately noticed increased agility particularly in the rear with the lower cassette and RD weight. I'm heading to HK for a few months and taking the bike. I'm considering picking up a carbon wheelset or maybe some Stans wheels.

    My question (don't shoot me)... has anyone from Banshee spoken about carbon fiber frames? With a small brand such as Transition releasing their carbon Covert, I can't help but think I would immensely enjoy a lighter, stiffer (not that the current one is a noodle) carbon Spitfire.

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