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  1. #1
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    Time To Build The Prime

    Well, the time has finally come for me to start building up my 2013 RAW Prime. Even though I have lost close to 50lbs through diet and exersize, my back is still telling me I need a little more cushion in da rear (I know my technique could improve also, but I really don't want a bad back @ a young age). I will be robbing parts from Trixie, my Sparkle Blue N9, and hope to have in built up by the end of next week.

    Other than the obvious 120>140mm travel increase, and the added rear squish, what should I expect or look for with my PRIME?

    Build list:
    2013 Large RAW
    2014 140mm Pike
    CCDB Coil w/ Renton 550# Ti Spring
    CK 142/12mm 15mmTA Stans Flow EX Wheels
    Hope M4 203mm(f) X2 180mm(r)
    Saint Crank w/ RF 30NW
    X9 Shifting
    Thompson: AM Alloy Handlebar, Stem, Seat Post
    Selle SMP Pro Saddle

    I really shoud be selling my N9 after the build is complete to recoup some funds, but I love that frame soo much idk if I can.

    006 by jonshonda187, on Flickr

    009 by jonshonda187, on Flickr
    Last edited by jonshonda; 1 Week Ago at 06:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    Pressed in the headset (CC40) and chased and faced the bb last night.

    Can't say I am very impressed with the amount of alum. chips laying on the floor after everything was nice and squared up. I was under the impression that higher end frames were supposed to have the service done prior to shipping?

  3. #3
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Can't say I am very impressed with the amount of alum. chips laying on the floor after everything was nice and squared up. I was under the impression that higher end frames were supposed to have the service done prior to shipping?

    Hmmm..... Pretty sure they come faced & chased from the factory, mine seemed that way by the paint. Maybe you added some inboard threads?

  4. #4
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    All my Banshee frames seem to have come properly prepped from the factory, but then again I don't have the tools to check. As FM said, maybe you added some threads to the BB

    As to what to expect from the Prime, very efficient climbing, the more technical/rough, the better it climbs. Serious confidence descending, if you've not really got the chunk for it, can make it feel like you're on a monster truck and don't really have to worry about line selection. Quite nimble for how big a bike they are, never had any trouble on slower tech stuff with mine, despite the 48.5" WB, was actually the most stable bike I've had for moves at really slow speeds, especially where you need to pause and re-group, flick it around.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Hmmm..... Pretty sure they come faced & chased from the factory, mine seemed that way by the paint. Maybe you added some inboard threads?
    There was a decend build up of paint on the faces of the shell, which lead me to believe that it was not done...or done before paint?

    I made a drawing of what the issue was (top view of bb shell). The red lines represent the material that was removed to make the shell square and parallel.
    Attachment 906888

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    All my Banshee frames seem to have come properly prepped from the factory, but then again I don't have the tools to check. As FM said, maybe you added some threads to the BB

    As to what to expect from the Prime, very efficient climbing, the more technical/rough, the better it climbs. Serious confidence descending, if you've not really got the chunk for it, can make it feel like you're on a monster truck and don't really have to worry about line selection. Quite nimble for how big a bike they are, never had any trouble on slower tech stuff with mine, despite the 48.5" WB, was actually the most stable bike I've had for moves at really slow speeds, especially where you need to pause and re-group, flick it around.
    I don't have a lot of chunk in my area, I bought the frame because I am a clyde who is hard on/flexes a lot of stuff. The reason I chose the PRIME is for the stiffness and ability to easily hand my forces.

  6. #6
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    There was a decend build up of paint on the faces of the shell, which lead me to believe that it was not done...or done before paint?
    That is odd. Mine had no paint on the BB faces- it had obviously been faced and chased. BB went in smooooth.

  7. #7
    AOK
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    Time To Build The Prime

    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    That is odd. Mine had no paint on the BB faces- it had obviously been faced and chased. BB went in smooooth.
    Same here. Frame was well prepped when I got it. I guess the Yellow primes are the "premium" model.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Same here. Frame was well prepped when I got it. I guess the Yellow primes are the "premium" model.
    Well, it looks like my frame wasn't treated with such special care. Makes me nervous that my head tube wasn't faced or reamed either. I know my LBS doesn't have the tools for reaming/facing my headtube.

  9. #9
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    My Black Prime frame came properly prepped for build...no chase & face needed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Same here. Frame was well prepped when I got it. I guess the Yellow primes are the "premium" model.

    What he said

  11. #11
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Well, it looks like my frame wasn't treated with such special care. Makes me nervous that my head tube wasn't faced or reamed either. I know my LBS doesn't have the tools for reaming/facing my headtube.
    Post some pics!
    If your frame is out of tolerance, id contact the shop/distibutor and ask them to either face/chase at no charge, or exchange the frame for one that is within tolerance.

    That said... if the frame is within tolerance, I wouldn't necessarily worry about it being faced/chased. Some brands do it before paint. These days I don't trust LBS's to do this sort of work unless they're an authorized dealer with warranty support, or they do frame work.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Post some pics!
    If your frame is out of tolerance, id contact the shop/distibutor and ask them to either face/chase at no charge, or exchange the frame for one that is within tolerance.
    I have contacted who I feel are the appropriate people to help me figure out what did/didn't happen. IMHO I don't feel like I should have to ask for something from them, it SHOULD BE offered as one of the perks of a high end frame ownership?


    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    That said... if the frame is within tolerance, I wouldn't necessarily worry about it being faced/chased. Some brands do it before paint. These days I don't trust LBS's to do this sort of work unless they're an authorized dealer with warranty support, or they do frame work.
    Based on how much material was removed to square up the shell, I highly doubt it was within tolerance. Facing the bb shell is pretty straight forward, and as long as you thread the taps in correctly (which I did) there is little chance for user error.

    I have continued moving forward with the build, and don't really want to focus on the bb topic any longer. I am hoping my Pike ships today, and can continue the build sooner than later.

  13. #13
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    Well you should be happy, as a bigger guy the stiffness of the Prime/Pike should make you enjoy your ride more
    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I don't have a lot of chunk in my area, I bought the frame because I am a clyde who is hard on/flexes a lot of stuff. The reason I chose the PRIME is for the stiffness and ability to easily hand my forces.
    On the BB thing, I'm sure you'll get sorted, stuff happens, mostly it's caught, but one or two things can make it out the door without being seen.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  14. #14
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    Added a few pics of the progress!

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    Took her on a maiden voyage yesterday. I need to get everything dialed in, but for now the Large N9 I had prior to this bike gave me a lot more confidence descending. I always felt like I was "in" the bike, where I feel like I am "on top" of the Prime.

    I also noticed the bike likes to be handled much differently than the N9. The N9 I could throw around with my hips (using the saddle) a lot more, whereas the Prime doesn't really respond to that very well.

    I did carry a lot more speed into down hills, but really didn't feel as confident railing burms. I have the neutral chips in right now, maybe I need to swap over to the slack to get that N9 feeling back?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Took her on a maiden voyage yesterday. I need to get everything dialed in, but for now the Large N9 I had prior to this bike gave me a lot more confidence descending. I always felt like I was "in" the bike, where I feel like I am "on top" of the Prime.
    Too small of a frame size on the Prime maybe?

  17. #17
    FM
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    They're very different bikes, and I'm not sure it's realistic to expect the Prime to ride like a 29'er AM hardtail.

    I have both and my Prime gets way more ride time, since it's only a few lbs heavier, and floats over loose chunky rock, soaks up drops and landings, and generally sticks to terrain the hardtail bounces off of at higher speeds....

    But any good hardtail 29'er will have a lower BB and a much shorter wheelbase, compared to most any comparable FS bike. I like my hardtail for smooth, twisty more XC trails that might seem a bit boring to ride on the Prime.

    A bigger bike also requires adjustment to riding style, no doubt. You have to ride further forward and exaggerate all your motions.

    It could be the Prime is not the bike for you, who knows? Not me!
    Your pics never showed up btw.

  18. #18
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    Hum, can't say I had the same experience as you going from the Paradox to the Prime confidence wise, but definitely felt a bit more "up there" because of the added suspension and BB height to accommodate that. I'm not a big guy, that's for sure, barely 175lbs RTR and I found that if I made the conscious effort to really put my hips into and ride the bike instead of just being a passenger that it responded very well, but it did take a lot of effort.

    What length/travel fork were you running on the N9? IIRC it was a 140mm travel, so that would put the HTA somewhere around 67*, so you should prob try the Prime in the slackest setting, will lower the BB and give you similar HTA to what you were running.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Took her on a maiden voyage yesterday. I need to get everything dialed in, but for now the Large N9 I had prior to this bike gave me a lot more confidence descending. I always felt like I was "in" the bike, where I feel like I am "on top" of the Prime.

    I also noticed the bike likes to be handled much differently than the N9. The N9 I could throw around with my hips (using the saddle) a lot more, whereas the Prime doesn't really respond to that very well.

    I did carry a lot more speed into down hills, but really didn't feel as confident railing burms. I have the neutral chips in right now, maybe I need to swap over to the slack to get that N9 feeling back?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Too small of a frame size on the Prime maybe?
    I have a Large and I am 6'2", and was advised by many that a Large would be just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    What length/travel fork were you running on the N9? IIRC it was a 140mm travel, so that would put the HTA somewhere around 67*, so you should prob try the Prime in the slackest setting, will lower the BB and give you similar HTA to what you were running.
    I had a 120mm on the N9, and also a setback seat post.

    I think the Pike was riding just a little too saged, and was blowing through travel a little too easy, which may have been giving me that "on top" feeling.

    I have swapped the setback post on (I have a longer torso than legs, but still have a 79cm center of crank/saddle height) which seemed to help on the N9. I have also added a token to the pike. Now I won't have time to ride it again until Sunday.

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    Not sure what your stack height is on the bars, but you might consider lowering the bars a bit to bring your weight more forward. The Prime is pretty slack and also has a long wheelbase, which translates to more stability going straight but a bit more effort digging into corners. The more you can use your weight to drive the front end into a corner, the better, as the back end will follow.

    On a long travel 29er with with a slack HA and long stays, you aren't going to be able to ride the back end through corners like you will be able to on a hardtail. You will, however, be able to push the bike harder into corners with a lot more grip once you are more confident in getting aggressive with it.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    The more you can use your weight to drive the front end into a corner, the better, as the back end will follow.
    Best advice ever!
    I have great days and OK days on the Prime. The great days are when I remember to stay as low & forward as possible, and keep my knees and elbows wide open.

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    I appreciate the advice guys!! My stack height is pretty high right now, but I can flip a few things around to see if that improves things.

    I like babyz comment about being able to ride the back end through corners on a hardtail. Putting more weigh up front is going to be a challenge, but I am up for it.

  23. #23
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    Yup, that is so true and the one thing it took me a while to figure out, but if you commit and put that weight on the front to get the grip it will give, you'll be amazed at how fast you can corner. Personally now a bit more comfortable on the size L Phantom with a 450mm Reach compared to the XL PP Prime with it's 472mm Reach, also the 2.5" shorter WB definitely helps - didn't really understand the whole Reach concept then and just went by ETT, so figured a shorter stem would make up the difference, but she was just too big for me and my size to muscle around as effectively as the L Phantom.
    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    On a long travel 29er with with a slack HA and long stays, you aren't going to be able to ride the back end through corners like you will be able to on a hardtail. You will, however, be able to push the bike harder into corners with a lot more grip once you are more confident in getting aggressive with it.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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    if you have a longer torso than legs perhaps the XL would have been better to create that 'in the bike' feeling. I'm just as tall as you and can't imagine riding a Large properly. (I'm on a Spitfire but it's close enough to compare).

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I have a Large and I am 6'2", and was advised by many that a Large would be just fine.



    I had a 120mm on the N9, and also a setback seat post.

    I think the Pike was riding just a little too saged, and was blowing through travel a little too easy, which may have been giving me that "on top" feeling.

    I have swapped the setback post on (I have a longer torso than legs, but still have a 79cm center of crank/saddle height) which seemed to help on the N9. I have also added a token to the pike. Now I won't have time to ride it again until Sunday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooldaddy View Post
    if you have a longer torso than legs perhaps the XL would have been better to create that 'in the bike' feeling. I'm just as tall as you and can't imagine riding a Large properly. (I'm on a Spitfire but it's close enough to compare).
    Based on the geo of the Large N9 and Prime, I think the Prime is a larger frame, which should provide a little more room to move around. I am not expert though, so maybe someone could point to the major geo differences between the two bike (other than the obvious CS length).

    I don't really want to rush to conclusions yet, as I know I don't have everything dialed in. Once I know forsure I have the sag correct, enough tokens and air in the fork, and the rear shock dialed. I will then start *****ing if it doesn't feel right.

    Time To Build The Prime-n9-geo.jpg

    Time To Build The Prime-banshee-geo.jpg

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