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  1. #1
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    Rune vs Endorphin

    Hey guys,

    Has anyone had the chance to ride the Rune and an Endorphin? How would you compare the two bikes?
    Appreciate any and all comments. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I know someone who sold their chilcotin and endorphin v2 and went with a spitfire which more honestly compares with the endo. The rune would be more of a chili. He is very happy with the spitfire and likes it better than the endo so far The one weakness of the endo is it's falling rate suspension while the spitfire and the rune too I believe are rising rate. He says the 140mm travel of the spitfire feels like it has more travel than it does.

    He had a v1 spitfire an is very impressed with th build quality of the v2. He took the shock off and cycled the suspension and it felt smooth with no drag whatsoever v the old bushing system. The other advantage is the banshee's ability to convert to 650b with just the swapping of a $100 set of dropouts.

    The banshee was cheaper too. So far he's happy he switched. That's after a weekend trip Moab too.

    He also said the build quality of the spitfire is as good or better than the endo. It has me thinking of getting back onto a banshee. I'm looking at picking up a spitfire. I'm on a chili at the moment

  3. #3
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    Whoa, what the hell is that seat tube angle on the endorphin??

  4. #4
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    qbert2000 - I definitely know what you mean about the Chili being a bit more of a direct comparison to the Rune. But the Chili is definitely way more bike than I need, whereas the Rune (especially with the trimmed-down 2014 version) I'm pretty sure I could happily live with.
    Plus I'm set on getting a frame with the CCDB air CS -- available on both the Rune and Endorphin but NOT on the Spitfire.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    I know someone who sold their chilcotin and endorphin v2 and went with a spitfire which more honestly compares with the endo. The rune would be more of a chili. He is very happy with the spitfire and likes it better than the endo so far The one weakness of the endo is it's falling rate suspension while the spitfire and the rune too I believe are rising rate. He says the 140mm travel of the spitfire feels like it has more travel than it does.

    He had a v1 spitfire an is very impressed with th build quality of the v2. He took the shock off and cycled the suspension and it felt smooth with no drag whatsoever v the old bushing system. The other advantage is the banshee's ability to convert to 650b with just the swapping of a $100 set of dropouts.

    The banshee was cheaper too. So far he's happy he switched. That's after a weekend trip Moab too.

    He also said the build quality of the spitfire is as good or better than the endo. It has me thinking of getting back onto a banshee. I'm looking at picking up a spitfire. I'm on a chili at the moment
    How would you compare the KS to the Knolly 4x suspension design in overall feel? The Warden looks promising.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon123 View Post
    Plus I'm set on getting a frame with the CCDB air CS -- available on both the Rune and Endorphin but NOT on the Spitfire.
    I have a DBAir CS on the way - on my 2014 Spitfire. And that was an option from Banshee.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalMX View Post
    How would you compare the KS to the Knolly 4x suspension design in overall feel? The Warden looks promising.
    havent ridden a v2 myself, i just posted a buddies thoughts. i did get pedal feedback on my v1 frames and prefer the 4x4 to v1, but it sounds like banshee dialed down the anti squat on the v2s. for all the knolly hype you just have to look at how many have gone custom tuned rear shock to get the most out of them. i'm a fan of custom tuning, but you have to filter hyperbole from facts a bit. the banshee is a killer deal cost wise compared to the knolly for sure. until i ride one i have to reserve judgement. you should have some idea having had a delirium and now a rune how they compare

    i still like the advantage of the swappable dropouts on the banshee vs the knolly. i love my knolly but the build quality discussions are a little over the top and just mat=rketing bs for the move to taiwan. the knolly is nicely built but no better than any other quality built frame. banshee seems to have made a big leap from their v1 frames to the v2s quality wise.

  8. #8
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    Im liking my V2 Rune a lot. Love the geo on this frame. The Delirium I had was simply too small for me, I couldn't live with the shorter top tube but looking at the #s for the Warden they have gone to a longer TT. That being said, my short time on the Delirium I fell in love with the 4x design on that bike I am just unsure if the horizontal shock design would feel different than the vert of the Chili & Warden?

  9. #9
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    The banshee v2/KS link frames don't ride much like the v1 versions. The newer frames (at least the ones I've owned & ridden) have much less anti-squat while pedaling, and also less rearward axle-path while descending/coasting. The new banshees are more "neutral" feeling.

    The Knolly's feel more active while pedaling to me, I can see why riders who do technical singletrack climbing enjoy them. I prefer the steeper seat tube and a little anti-squat personally. I also prefer bigger wheels, either 27b or 29. Personal preference.

    I agree that the endorphin is on par with the spitfire, while the Rune is more similar to the chilcotin. I'd lean towards the spitfire for trail riding, vs. the Rune/Chilcotin if you're into more jumps/drops/occasional shuttling.

  10. #10
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    Gemini2k05
    Please do a little reading/research. There is a big difference between actual and effective. There are several good reasons for the design.
    Suspension design
    Full length ST
    Shorter stays
    Gets the seat out of the way when descending
    Lengthens TT when climbing......

    I believe the effective TT on the Endo is around 73+

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Gemini2k05
    Please do a little reading/research. There is a big difference between actual and effective. There are several good reasons for the design.
    Suspension design
    Full length ST
    Shorter stays
    Gets the seat out of the way when descending
    Lengthens TT when climbing......

    I believe the effective TT on the Endo is around 73+
    I'm well aware of the alleged benefits and the difference between effective and actual TT length. I didn't even mention TT length, not sure why your brought it up.

    I prefer a reach/top tube that doesn't change dramatically when I change the seatpost height though. You're taking my comment oddly personally. Effective TT dimensions are worthless measurements anyways. Reach is the only thing that "really" matters, unless you only ride your bike sitting down.

    These designs always seem like they are made by someone who never rides downhill. I don't think I've met too many people who want a shorter cockpit while descending.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    I'm well aware of the alleged benefits and the difference between effective and actual TT length. I didn't even mention TT length, not sure why your brought it up.

    I prefer a reach/top tube that doesn't change dramatically when I change the seatpost height though. You're taking my comment oddly personally. Effective TT dimensions are worthless measurements anyways. Reach is the only thing that "really" matters, unless you only ride your bike sitting down.

    These designs always seem like they are made by someone who never rides downhill. I don't think I've met too many people who want a shorter cockpit while descending.

    you mean you ride seated while descending? how would the seat tube angle matter when descending?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    you mean you ride seated while descending? how would the seat tube angle matter when descending?
    Uhhhh, no. I didn't say that anywhere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Uhhhh, no. I didn't say that anywhere?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post

    I prefer a reach/top tube that doesn't change dramatically when I change the seatpost height though. Reach is the only thing that "really" matters, unless you only ride your bike sitting down.

    These designs always seem like they are made by someone who never rides downhill. I don't think I've met too many people who want a shorter cockpit while descending.
    what is your point about the seat tube angle then? if you never ride seated how does it matter? so knolly designed a bike that sucks going down? i'd have to say i don;t think thats the case at all.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    what is your point about the seat tube angle then? if you never ride seated how does it matter?
    1. Looks
    2. Puts more stress on frame and post
    3. Puts the seat in a weird spot while descending
    4. Changing TT length with seat height
    5. something else I'm sure I'm missing

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    1. Looks - totally subjective and no bearing on ride quality
    2. Puts more stress on frame and post - marginal and i don't know anyone whos broken a post because of it. canfied does it on their yelli screamy as do others for aditional wheel clearance
    3. Puts the seat in a weird spot while descending - moves seat forward and away for additional clearance
    4. Changing TT length with seat height - i've yet to hear of complaints of it.
    5. something else I'm sure I'm missing
    most of your issues are non issues or based solely on appearance. i get that people want to like the looks of their bikes and i know everyone has different tastes, but your reasoning is pretty much based on looks alone. most people like the seat moving forward when they drop it to descend. no idea why anyone wouldn't want more clearance. again, who rides downhill with their seat down seated? that's the only time having it move forward would matter. and the tt length issue is pretty much irrelevant as the bike and seat tube lengths are designed into optimal height ranges. there would be a problem if you ran a too small frame and a ton of post as it would get your azz out over the rear wheel more than intended. knolly pretty much overbuilds their bikes and as a small brand is targeting a certain segment of rider looking for a bike that can be ridden hard and aggressively. their downhill bike has the same design idea with its seat tube and if you want to see some nice riding look for some james doerfling videos. i dont think he's breaking any seat tubes or seat posts. im sure there's more positive points im missing

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    most of your issues are non issues or based solely on appearance. i get that people want to like the looks of their bikes and i know everyone has different tastes, but your reasoning is pretty much based on looks alone.
    Trust me, looks is way down the list, I shouldn't have actually put it as no.1 ha ha.

    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    again, who rides downhill with their seat down seated?
    No one (who matters). But seat position is still really important for DH. Where the seat is determines the angle and extension of your legs because you tend to automatically adjust your knees around the seat. Try it sometime. Move you seat way forward and way back while descending. It has a really weird, but significant effect on how long the cockpit feels while standing and descending.

    Also, most "true" DH-ers (whatever that means) prefer longer cockpits while descending. Using a weird seatpost angle in order to make the bike feel shorter while descending is really misguided I think. It's something an XC rider would think matters because they are taking switchbacks at zero MPH (IME). But, maybe I'm the moron and that's what this bike is targeted at.

  18. #18
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    Interesting post as I am currently contemplating a move to a Chilco from Rune V2 at the moment, but haven't spent a lot of time on the Chilco to get a good enough feel how it behaves on the trail. I don't have many technical climbs that I do on any given ride in my area, so maybe best to stay with V2 since it is a nice compromise between fairly efficient pedalling with smooth suspension action and feel to the ground with the KS link (zero friction in the system). I am considering the move to Knolly for stronger frame/durability, but may not suit me best since I do so much pedalling and climbing where I live. Hmmm...?
    Ride On!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Interesting post as I am currently contemplating a move to a Chilco from Rune V2 at the moment, but haven't spent a lot of time on the Chilco to get a good enough feel how it behaves on the trail. I don't have many technical climbs that I do on any given ride in my area, so maybe best to stay with V2 since it is a nice compromise between fairly efficient pedalling with smooth suspension action and feel to the ground with the KS link (zero friction in the system). I am considering the move to Knolly for stronger frame/durability, but may not suit me best since I do so much pedalling and climbing where I live. Hmmm...?
    what leads you to believe the knolly will be stronger than the rune v2? the chili is a solid frame no doubt, but the v2 looks as solid to me. with no links to the shock and bearings now it seems banshee took away their weak points.

    if i was doing it again, i'd have picked up either a rune of spitfire. i like that a set of dropouts lets me convert to 650b. wish i had some ride time on one to offer an opinion between the two

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