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  1. #1
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    rune pedal kick when suspension compresses

    I have heard of people having pedal feedback when climbing with a small granny gear, but I get a really annoying kick whenever i go off a drop or the rear suspension compresses while coasting. It makes the hub engage very hard, makes a ton of noise, and its starting to get on my nerves. Is there any way to cure this?

    I am running 1x10, with a 11-36 cassette, 32t chainring,and short cage sram derailer.

  2. #2
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    Mine doesn't do that. In the granny... yeah sometimes, but not in the middle.

  3. #3
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    Iím running an identical drivetrain (edit- although I'm running a mid-cage), and have never noticed anything like that. But Iím confused by your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by helidave View Post
    but I get a really annoying kick whenever i go off a drop or the rear suspension compresses while coasting. It makes the hub engage very hard, makes a ton of noise, and its starting to get on my nerves.
    Usually when people speak of pedal kickback, itís while they are pedaling. Iím not sure how you would feel it while coasting. Wondering if youíre feeling something else- suspension spiking or drivetrain issues?
    Last edited by FM; 01-25-2012 at 06:39 PM.

  4. #4
    Shortcutting Hikabiker
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    Freehub body might be locking up?

  5. #5
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    thoughts?

    <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8ZsBoGIFQQs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidave View Post
    thoughts?

    <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8ZsBoGIFQQs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Thats normal for a bike with that much chain growth.
    I noticed the kick landing jumps when I first got the bike, but no longer.
    The feedback while climbing in granny is always noticeable

  7. #7
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    if it wasnt for the hub noise i would think it would be rebound set too fast. possibly some kind of hub issue??

  8. #8
    FM
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    It's really hard to say, your cassette is spinning backwards as the suspension compresses... obviously that wouldn't happen while riding the bike with your feet on the pedals.

    One thing I can say for certain... if you are coasting, you should not be feeling any kickback through your pedals when the suspension compresses. The derailer would be absorbing the chain growth, and your freehub wouldn't be engaged so the cranks aren't under chain tension. Pedaling is a different story...

    Pure speculation here: perhaps the the rune requires a mid-cage r. derailuer to absorb the amount of chain growth caused by suspension compression, with your gearing & chainguide? But if that was the case, I'd suspect you would be going through rear derailuer hangers frequently....


    However, aside from your short cage derailuer, we have identical drivetrains and I've never felt any kickback while coasting.

    chainline and freehub drag are some other possibilities... pure speculation (what else is the intraweb goof for eh?)

  9. #9
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    Remove your chain and compress your suspension like in the video. My guess is its your hub.

  10. #10
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    Looks like the freehub is dragging

  11. #11
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    FM, it's more the noise than a feeling in the pedals. I don't always feel it. It's hard to explain but more than a few people I ride with have commented on the noise after following me down a rough section of trail.

    I took the hub apart and cleaned/lubed it, we'll see if that helps.

  12. #12
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidave View Post
    FM, it's more the noise than a feeling in the pedals.
    I took the hub apart and cleaned/lubed it, we'll see if that helps.
    Right on. Hub/ freehub OH is the logical place to start....swapping wheels with a buddy might help you isolate the problem too.
    Bad chainline (too many spacers) and/or dragging pulley in your chainguide could also be potential culprits.
    Good luck and keep us posted!

  13. #13
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    If it's just a noise it could be something totally different all together.

  14. #14
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    well, still does it. I took the idler off the chainguide, and that didn't help either. Not running any spacers, chainline is fine.

  15. #15
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    Stalking FM's posts for his new twenty-giner pics/content.

    The vid 100% makes it sound like it's your freehub.

    That said, with an 11-36 cluster, I think you should have a mid-cage derailleur to better accommodate the range of gears and the chain growth during compression + take up the extra slack when you're in the smaller cogs. Not sure if that's the issue or not, but short cage derailleurs really work best with a dh cassette without that large of a range of cogs (e.g. 11-21 to 11-28).

  16. #16
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    Stalking FM's posts for his new twenty-giner pics/content.
    I'll organize your personal test ride once the trails dry out!

    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    That said, with an 11-36 cluster, I think you should have a mid-cage derailleur to better accommodate the range of gears and the chain growth during compression + take up the extra slack when you're in the smaller cogs.
    I'm thinking this way too, now that you say it's the noise not the kickback that's bothering you. A mid cage der. can absorb more slack in the chain (but will require a longer chain). Short cage is really not made for bigger cogs like the 36t.

  17. #17
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    Its the freewheel. Watch the video. The cassette backs up ever so slightly when the suspension rebounds and moves forward when the suspension compresses. The sound is in sync with these movements. Though I wouldn't say there is anything wrong with the freewheel. My thinking is your chain is too short. Try adding a few links and see if it helps. A mid cage derailleur would be a better option as well. Did you try compressing the bike with out the chain on?

  18. #18
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    yea, no noise without the chain because the hub doesn't move. I'll try a med. cage and see what happens

  19. #19
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    I get the same loud bang sometimes when I land, on my spitfire. I've come to the conclusion that its just the noise of the hub engages and echoing throughout the wheel and frame.

    What hub is it? Mine is a Hope.

  20. #20
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    the question isn't what's making the noise, i know its the hub. What i want is to make it stop, or at least reduce it.

    Its a Hope hub

  21. #21
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    I haven't found a way to get the noise to reduce. The only way to make it go away is to keep the slack out of the freehub, if that makes sense. Like always push forwards with your pedals instead of letting the pawls in the hub float between the engagement points.

  22. #22
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    no way, guys. i have hope, too. that is not normal. you need to service your hub. if you cant do it yourself i know from experience the usa hope folks in TX are very helpful.

    I had some bum bearings in my new proII that gave out after 4mos of riding and they had failed in such a way that i couldnt get the axle out to service on my own. they fixed me right up and even paid me back for my shipping cost!

  23. #23
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    If you have ever removed your freehub body from Pro 2 and re-assembled it, it is really easy to misplace the seal ring between the freehub and the hub itself, that will cause drag for sure.

    Talking from personal experience here.

  24. #24
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    it's not the hub dragging. I already checked that.

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    I honestly don't think we'll get the noise to stop. I've tried a bunch of things and nothing has really helped. it must be a combo of the hope hub construction, rim volume and the tube shaping/material that is reverberating and amplifying thenoise.

    i have almost the exact same setup, except my cassette only has 34 teeth. is your frame anodised too?

    My hub is also brand new and properly maintained.

  26. #26
    FM
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    I haven't found the Rune to be any louder or quieter than any other aluminum dualie.

    Canadamos, are you running a short or mid cage derailuer?

    Are you guys running any wrap on your chainstay?

    I'm running the old roach chainstay pads...just to quiet down any chainslap...

  27. #27
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    I have a short cage derailluer on the frame, with a single ring setup in the front using a full chain guide.

    I have a tube wrapped around the chainstay and the seatstay.


  28. #28
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    helidave, I just saw this post. My Rune did the same thing. Hope hubs are loud enough but hearing it engage every time you go off a drop is like nails on a chalkboard. I also felt the kick back in the pedals on drops as well. When I first got the Rune, I rode PMP mostly, but on my first fast run down National, I hated it. This was actually one of the reasons I sold the frame. I know I tend to be picky, but I just didn't want to deal with it.
    "Don't feel bad. A lot of people have no talent"

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz View Post
    but on my first fast run down National, I hated it.
    yep, that's where it gets on my nerves too. which is a shame cause i ride that trail 3 or 4 times a week.

    it has to be hard on the hub too, constantly slamming like that

  30. #30
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    My bike was doing the same thing when I first started riding it. I took apart my hub (hope pro 2) and realized that I was missing 2 pawls. Apparently it came from the factory with only 2 pawls when it should have came with 4. Ordered a set of pawls and now do not have the problem any more. Something you may want to check.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkslide18 View Post
    My bike was doing the same thing when I first started riding it. I took apart my hub (hope pro 2) and realized that I was missing 2 pawls. Apparently it came from the factory with only 2 pawls when it should have came with 4. Ordered a set of pawls and now do not have the problem any more. Something you may want to check.
    I actually did check to make sure I didn't have any broken pawls or springs and all was perfect.

    The answer is a simple one. It's the suspension design. Sit on the bike and put your foot on the front pedal and compress the rear suspension and watch the crank rotate backwards. The cranks will rotate backwards whenever the suspension is compressed. So if you have any pressure on the pedal in front when going off a drop (impossible not to) you'll get that same backward rotation and the faster the suspension compresses, the harder that kickback is felt at the pedal. This is my experience anyways.
    "Don't feel bad. A lot of people have no talent"

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz View Post
    I actually did check to make sure I didn't have any broken pawls or springs and all was perfect.

    The answer is a simple one. It's the suspension design. Sit on the bike and put your foot on the front pedal and compress the rear suspension and watch the crank rotate backwards. The cranks will rotate backwards whenever the suspension is compressed. So if you have any pressure on the pedal in front when going off a drop (impossible not to) you'll get that same backward rotation and the faster the suspension compresses, the harder that kickback is felt at the pedal. This is my experience anyways.
    Chain Growth or not, your bike shouldn't be clanging down the trail. I don't feel it at all.

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    basically, the pawls are in between teeth on the ratchet ring, so the chain growth it going to pull the cassette forward as the suspension cycles and they clang when they engage.

  34. #34
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    Reducing Pedal Feedback on Banshee Rune

    I have a Banshee Rune too, and I definitley notice the chaingrowth and pedal feedback. Of course it will always be their, but it can be minimized. When I first got my Rune (It has a Monarch r3 shock) I set the sag at 30% sag, which I thought was pretty standard for a bike with this much travel, but on the first rides the pedal feedback while pedaling over bumps was crazy annoying. I went online and checked the bike specs, and it turns out that banshee recommends only 15-25% sag! I have been running it at around the 20% mark for all-mountain type of riding, and the feeling while it pedals is way, way better! Hope this helps, check out Banshees specs for the Rune on their websit at bansheebikes.com
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  35. #35
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    Been riding my Rune for a few years now and have never really noticed what you are talking about...Running a old CK hub, 1x10 setup 11-36 rear 28t front. Sorry to hear you are having issues...good luck.

  36. #36
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    edit: was speculating it was chain tension due to short cage and possibly chain too short, posted, and then went back and realized all these suggestions are on p1.

  37. #37
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    Hope hubs are loud when they enguage (I rune them myself on my spitfire)... and since they don't have a huge number of engaguement points it means that they rotate a few degrees before they engauge which gives the wheel a little time to accelerate... the faster the wheel, the harder the enguagement, the louder the noise. I'd suggest you make sure that the hub engaugement area is liberally greased (will help cut down on noise a bit), and make sure that it is not at all sticky. Also I suspect the noise is resinating through the frame, so you could considertrying to damp the frame in some way (rubber tubing around chainstays, rubber washers potentially at axle interface if you can find room, or if getting despirate filling the stays with filler foam throught he weld vents (should only add a few grams))

    Also check that the shock sag is correct (12-13mm of sag at the shock is what I personally like), and that the compression damping of the shock is properly set up for the bike, as if it is underdamped then pedal kickback will be far more noticable.
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