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Thread: Rune Longevity

  1. #1
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    Rune Longevity

    Hi all,
    Prospective Rune purchaser here. I currently ride a 2005 Kona Coiler with a full custom build yada yada... My question is about the longevity of the Rune frame/Bushing system. My Kona has been ridden hard for 6 years now; dents in the frame, mud, snow, sand. It's been crashed, beaten, it fell off my car at 40 mph due to a faulty bike rack, bottomed out on drops at bike parks, ridden hard on DH trails, dropped and otherwise just had a hard but great life. It's still riding great and has NO play in any of the original bearings. I mean none. I love this bike, but it's old and starting to show its age. It's also HEAVY at 38-39 pounds. Still kicks ass though.
    I really want a Rune, and I've been reading everything I can find about it. It seems like a great bike. I won't be able to demo one since no one near me carries Banshee bikes. I've been reading that the bushings could be a problem. I don't mind servicing the bike and replacing the bushings every year, but I don't want to grease this thing every other ride. I feel like that is way over kill. I'm exaggerating but you get my point. Is the issue with the bushing system wearing down the frame at its contact points a widespread issue or is it only a few isolated cases? Also, I heard that these frames can develop cracks at the BB. Is that a big problem too or mostly hoopla? Hell, everyone says Konas crack but mine has been to hell and back and it's still fine. I guess I'm being paranoid but I would appreciate hearing from the people who actually ride these bikes.
    Thanks and I hope to join the Banshee crowd soon.
    Dave G

  2. #2
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    Not yet a Banshee owner but I'll refer you to this thread. I was surprised by some posts on the cracking Rune thread, looks like some are already on their 2nd and 3rd frames.
    FWIW, I owned an 02 Stinky, essentially a Coiler. I've slammed it against my apartment building while it was on a roof rack. Parking spot was under the apartment unit. I was going about 6 to 10mph and the bike flew off 15 feet behind the car. Rode it for 4 more years before I sold it. Not a crack or dent but I dinged the wood siding of the building pretty good Oh yeah, it weighed 39 lbs as well.
    Hey man, wanna go for a klunk?

  3. #3
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    I have had zero issues with my Rune but I do have another bike I ride too. I also don't get a lot of air time but ride it on very techy / agressive north east rocky trails. You will find failures of every bike if you dig. It just seems that the people who had frames fail post up and the ones that have no issues don't. I wouldn't sweat it and would feel fine about Banshee taking care of their customers i the unlikely event of a failure. It's a great 6" AM bike.

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    Thanks,
    I'll be riding it on the East Coast as well so it's going to see lots of techy rock filled and rooty trails with a few jumps and drops thrown in for flavor. I read pretty much every thread on the Rune in this forum, and even if there are problems, there's a reason everyone is still riding this bike and you can hardly find any used ones for sale. It must be a great bike.

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    I just sent you a pm

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    So it seems like it's not that big of a deal. Any issues that may arise will likely be taken care of and the benefits of having the Rune far outweigh the maintenance issues.

  7. #7
    dft
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    what size are you looking to buy? i have a friend probably selling his med

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    I'm looking for a large. But I may have to hold off until a new version comes out. It seems like everyone is really ready to unload their Runes, which gives me an uneasy feeling.

  9. #9
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    I am also interested in the RUNE and found a thread with a wish-list for a RUNE V2. I send a mail to Banshee a week ago to ask if it is worth waiting, but they told me there even is no prototype build so the new RUNE won´t be released until late 2012 or perhaps 2013.

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    Guys!

    I have remained relatively silent in all these new threads popping up all over the place re. Rune unreliability in the long run.

    I have to really encourage anyone looking to buy one, who is concerned enough about these "issues", to go around to shops and talk to THEM about it, as opposed to inquiring solely here, where you a) hear about all the problems only, and b) is a place where people, primarily, only complain about stuff.

    Occasionally, you get someone asking legitimate advice or seeking legitimate info, but alot of what you read here is not what you should be basing your decision on, at least in my opinion. But I digress...

    The root of the problem(s) you hear about re. the Runes and the bushings does not stem from the system itself. While the bushing system Banshee has chosen to use with the Rune is not perfect, it is far from the incredibly flawed system the forum says it is.

    The root of the problem, I can almost guarantee, is user based. In talking to shops and Rune owners prior to buying mine, and now in hindsight after owning one for the past season (and still riding!!!) doing my own maintenance, the bushing system is actually a great system, and very durable.

    The problems people have with the bushing come from one (or both) of two things happening:

    a) over-tightening/torquing the pivot bolts, thus compressing the frame against the bushings, creating pre-mature wear and breakdown of the bushings. Take a close look at the pivots on the Rune and you will see how this can happen. Thus, when they are over-torqued, and breakdown occurs, "play" develops, and so to get ride of this play, the user torques even more, causing more breakdown of the bushing, to the point that the bushing is completely broken down, and you then get pre-mature frame wear around the pivot points. The torque specifications are quite low on this system, and I can guarantee that most people are over-torquing.

    and the other problem b) is lack of maintenance and lubrication of the bushings/pivot assembly. Yes, this system is a slightly more maintenance intensive system that others out there, but for me, this makes me more committed to the bike and responsibility for anything that might go wrong. But as long as you don't do A) above, and lubricate the assembly. When I first got my Rune, after about a month, I stripped the pivots down (and found they were under-lubed) and relubed them. I also bought Duneariz' tool (which I'll post a link for here), which has made total maintenance a 5 minute thing needing no breakdown of the bikes. The assembly is designed to maintain lubrication, and if you look at various pictures of the pivot, you will see how this happens.

    So what I'm saying, is that the problems people have are, 95% of the time, user induced due to either (or both) over-torquing the pivots and basically crushing the bushings, and/or lack of maintenance/lubrication of the of the pivots.

    Anyways, that's my opinion on reading things on this forum over the last year (since before I bought my Rune) about the bushings assembly on the Rune (and other Banshees).

    It is not the flawed and problem-ridden system that this forum suggests it is. If you go to google and search "Rune bushing problem" or something like that, 95% of the responses will probably be on this forum, I can almost guarantee it.

    The Rune is an amazing and versatile bike. You will NOT be disappointed in it, and if you can manage to not over-torque your pivots, and do the occasional maintenance on it, you will NEVER have a problem, and if you do, Banshee supplies a replacement set of bushings. Also, some shops (here in Vancouver there's one I've seen) stock upgraded/aftermarket bushings.

    Also, all this bit that's now come up about Runes cracking is so far off from being an actual problem. I know guys here in Vancouver who beat the **** out of their Runes in North Vancouver on a regular basis and have never had a problem... and they are riding trails that would make most of you (including me) **** your pants even looking at.... hell alot of them even do it on a Spitfire.

    I'll post the link to the lubrication tool in a sec.

  11. #11
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    Here's the grease adapter:

    Grease adapter for Rune, Spitfire, Rampant, Pyre MKII

    Buy this, and buy your Rune, NOW! Trust me, you won't be disappointed, I promise.

    I had originally built mine up as a freeride bike, then as an AM bike, raced BC Bike Race on it, and now am switching the build over to a marathon XC build, which shouldn't be much more than 30lbs when it's all done. The Rune is just so incredibly versatile, so well-built (and designed!!!!), and such a fun bike. Sure, it's got a slightly too slack seat angle for hard-core XC racing, but it's not designed for that!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmike9699 View Post
    Guys!

    I have remained relatively silent in all these new threads popping up all over the place re. Rune unreliability in the long run.

    I have to really encourage anyone looking to buy one, who is concerned enough about these "issues", to go around to shops and talk to THEM about it, as opposed to inquiring solely here, where you a) hear about all the problems only, and b) is a place where people, primarily, only complain about stuff.

    Occasionally, you get someone asking legitimate advice or seeking legitimate info, but alot of what you read here is not what you should be basing your decision on, at least in my opinion. But I digress...

    The root of the problem(s) you hear about re. the Runes and the bushings does not stem from the system itself. While the bushing system Banshee has chosen to use with the Rune is not perfect, it is far from the incredibly flawed system the forum says it is.

    The root of the problem, I can almost guarantee, is user based. In talking to shops and Rune owners prior to buying mine, and now in hindsight after owning one for the past season (and still riding!!!) doing my own maintenance, the bushing system is actually a great system, and very durable.

    The problems people have with the bushing come from one (or both) of two things happening:

    a) over-tightening/torquing the pivot bolts, thus compressing the frame against the bushings, creating pre-mature wear and breakdown of the bushings. Take a close look at the pivots on the Rune and you will see how this can happen. Thus, when they are over-torqued, and breakdown occurs, "play" develops, and so to get ride of this play, the user torques even more, causing more breakdown of the bushing, to the point that the bushing is completely broken down, and you then get pre-mature frame wear around the pivot points. The torque specifications are quite low on this system, and I can guarantee that most people are over-torquing.

    and the other problem b) is lack of maintenance and lubrication of the bushings/pivot assembly. Yes, this system is a slightly more maintenance intensive system that others out there, but for me, this makes me more committed to the bike and responsibility for anything that might go wrong. But as long as you don't do A) above, and lubricate the assembly. When I first got my Rune, after about a month, I stripped the pivots down (and found they were under-lubed) and relubed them. I also bought Duneariz' tool (which I'll post a link for here), which has made total maintenance a 5 minute thing needing no breakdown of the bikes. The assembly is designed to maintain lubrication, and if you look at various pictures of the pivot, you will see how this happens.

    So what I'm saying, is that the problems people have are, 95% of the time, user induced due to either (or both) over-torquing the pivots and basically crushing the bushings, and/or lack of maintenance/lubrication of the of the pivots.

    Anyways, that's my opinion on reading things on this forum over the last year (since before I bought my Rune) about the bushings assembly on the Rune (and other Banshees).

    It is not the flawed and problem-ridden system that this forum suggests it is. If you go to google and search "Rune bushing problem" or something like that, 95% of the responses will probably be on this forum, I can almost guarantee it.

    The Rune is an amazing and versatile bike. You will NOT be disappointed in it, and if you can manage to not over-torque your pivots, and do the occasional maintenance on it, you will NEVER have a problem, and if you do, Banshee supplies a replacement set of bushings. Also, some shops (here in Vancouver there's one I've seen) stock upgraded/aftermarket bushings.

    Also, all this bit that's now come up about Runes cracking is so far off from being an actual problem. I know guys here in Vancouver who beat the **** out of their Runes in North Vancouver on a regular basis and have never had a problem... and they are riding trails that would make most of you (including me) **** your pants even looking at.... hell alot of them even do it on a Spitfire.

    I'll post the link to the lubrication tool in a sec.

    user induced? really? banshee themselves changed their recommended torque specs. so if you followed their own advice you ended up over torquing them. that's not user induced that'a a fawk up on banshee's part. a few people had issues before they did any torquing on their own, they came from the factory over torqued. the problem is real and it's more than just a couple frames out of what have been sold otherwise banshee wouldn't be testing new axle coatings and working on a shim kit.

    yes, people need to take these forums with a grain of salt but from both perspectives. the banshee bushing system is far from perfect. less than 5nm is a ridiculously low torque value. hand tight plus a 1/4 turn is a retarded way to maintain any system.

    does the rune ride nice? most certainly. are there people running them problem free? definitely. are there people having issues from incorrect maintenance? sure. are there others who have followed the recommended service intervals and still had problems? yes.

    don't gloss over the issues. there is a problem and no, you can't tell how many by this forum alone. caveat emptor. research. protect yourself. if you feel safe buying a rune or spitfire do it. if you are leery, don't. it's each person's hard earned cash we are talking about. make an informed choice. balance the good with the bad and fire away.

  13. #13
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    Banshee changed the torque specs because too many weekend warrior mechanics who didn't have torque wrenches were over-torquing the pivots. This is user-induced....

    Yes, the torque specs were so precise (relative to the material of the bushings) that it made it difficult for home mechanics to do their own maintenance with confidence, and yes, that is a bit of an issue, but again, being smart about it, and doing the proper maintenance vis-a-vis lubrication of the pivots, and you will hardly run into problems. 8 months in on my Rune, with a BC Bike Race under its belt, among others, and I've had not a single issue.

    Again, I am not saying, nor did I in the first place, that the system is completely flawless, and yes, a few of the cases might be due to some issues with frames, but it's not banshee's fault that users can't admit when THEY fawked up....

    All I am saying is that people have to put it into perspective, ESPECIALLY what they read on this forum. It's like kicking a dead horse over and over again, and as a now stoked Rune owner, it's frustrating when I come here to get good info on banshee (what's new, how people are building theirs etc etc, which is a great feature of this forum don't get wrong) and there are a half dozen bushing related posts on the first page alone... especially when even in the way most of them explain the problem, it's clear that it's user induced despite MANY MANY MANY people saying to be careful with the torquing and to do proper maintenance.

    That's all. I don't mean to offend anyone, I just don't want people to be steered in the wrong direction re. the Rune (or any of the other Banshee's that use the bushing system) because of the garbage that floods this forum...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmike9699 View Post
    8 months in on my Rune, with a BC Bike Race under its belt, among others, and I've had not a single issue.

    Again, I am not saying, nor did I in the first place, that the system is completely flawless, and yes, a few of the cases might be due to some issues with frames, but it's not banshee's fault that users can't admit when THEY fawked up....

    All I am saying is that people have to put it into perspective, ESPECIALLY what they read on this forum. It's like kicking a dead horse over and over again, and as a now stoked Rune owner, it's frustrating when I come here to get good info on banshee (what's new, how people are building theirs etc etc, which is a great feature of this forum don't get wrong) and there are a half dozen bushing related posts on the first page alone... especially when even in the way most of them explain the problem, it's clear that it's user induced despite MANY MANY MANY people saying to be careful with the torquing and to do proper maintenance.
    Hey bigmike9699, stoked to hear about your thoughts on the BC Bike Race. That is more miles of quality, challenging singletrack than many users probably put on their bike, ever. And a good point of reference for any review, as your bikes obviously been put through the paces.

    Personally, my Banshee experience has been consistent with yours, positive. No need to beat the deceased horse further beyond death, but I agree things have been blown out of proportion here, despite some possibly having legitimate issues. Bottom line, I am super happy with my Rune, so I have high expectations for the banshee prime....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmike9699 View Post
    Banshee changed the torque specs because too many weekend warrior mechanics who didn't have torque wrenches were over-torquing the pivots. This is user-induced....

    Yes, the torque specs were so precise (relative to the material of the bushings) that it made it difficult for home mechanics to do their own maintenance with confidence, and yes, that is a bit of an issue, but again, being smart about it, and doing the proper maintenance vis-a-vis lubrication of the pivots, and you will hardly run into problems. 8 months in on my Rune, with a BC Bike Race under its belt, among others, and I've had not a single issue.

    Again, I am not saying, nor did I in the first place, that the system is completely flawless, and yes, a few of the cases might be due to some issues with frames, but it's not banshee's fault that users can't admit when THEY fawked up....

    All I am saying is that people have to put it into perspective, ESPECIALLY what they read on this forum. It's like kicking a dead horse over and over again, and as a now stoked Rune owner, it's frustrating when I come here to get good info on banshee (what's new, how people are building theirs etc etc, which is a great feature of this forum don't get wrong) and there are a half dozen bushing related posts on the first page alone... especially when even in the way most of them explain the problem, it's clear that it's user induced despite MANY MANY MANY people saying to be careful with the torquing and to do proper maintenance.

    That's all. I don't mean to offend anyone, I just don't want people to be steered in the wrong direction re. the Rune (or any of the other Banshee's that use the bushing system) because of the garbage that floods this forum...
    Hi bigmike9699,

    Not wanting to kick a dead horse further but you seem to speak with some knowledge as to the causes of the premature wear. I'm not sure if you've read any of my previous posts regarding the issues I've had. My frame started wearing at the chainstay pivots after 12 months of riding, the main pivot and seat stay pivots started wearing soon after that.

    I've followed Banshee's torque recommendations from the first day I rode the frame (5nm), used Prep M grease and this torque wrench - Pro Torque Wrench Including Accessories | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com . I tried to grease the pivots every 20 hours using the grease ports but found them to be pretty ineffective so I stripped and regreased everything instead. It was a bit of hassle but I didn't mind too much. I switched to lithium grease as soon as Keith advised to do so.

    In 12 months I've gone through 3 sets of bushings and 2 sets of pivots and now I have a worn frame that I no longer ride, in fact it's not even built up any more which is huge shame because I loved that bike. Banshee have recognised that there is an issue and are working on a solution for worn frames as per Jay's recent post.

    So, taking into account that I've used a bike specific torque wrench to tighten my pivots to the torque settings recommended by Banshee, stripped and greased the pivots at around 20 hours using the recommended grease, what have I done wrong to cause accelerated wear in my bushings, pivots and frame?

    I'm not bashing anyone here, I'm still a big Banshee fan and I'm looking forward to be able to ride my Rune again as it's still my favourite bike. I'm genuinely interested in what you think about my case.

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