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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I am starting to notice a couple things:
    1. Wheel flex.
    2. I am more regularly flatting my beloved FR3 tires primarily through the casing. I thought these were indestructible, but I am hitting stuff harder I think and sort of slowly killing them.
    I've been having very good results from my Butchers, good traction, sidewalls are holding up fine. They are a bit slow, and I do at times get the feeling that I'm pushing them near their limit in chunk, but so far no problems. Looking forward to trying the new Maxxis, probably only the single ply though. My MTX's built up extremely easy, easiest wheel that I've ever built, less than 1mm runout right at initial tensioning, 2 wraps of 3M electrical tape, 1 wrap of Stan's yellow tape, aired up fine. I could feel a very noticeable increase in stiffness with my E13 hubs, my wheels should be plenty strong now. F34 seems pretty stiff, 15mm axle isn't really a noticeable weak point, IMO.

  2. #602
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    I've been debating whether to buy the DH casing DHFs or an Exo casing DHF in front with an Exo DHR2, HR2 or a DHF in back. Considering that I have pinch flatted a Hans Dampf and I'm currently riding with Dissents, the DH casings probably make the most sense.

    Hurry up, boat!

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    FWIW I have to throw down a solid endorsement for the easton haven carbon wheels. I picked up a used set in august, they dropped a bit of weight off compared to my 32h flows, but the difference in stiffness was incredible. Even after tons of use they are true as new. They also work great tubeless.
    The original hubs were kinda meh, but the most recent *free* easton hub upgrade basically disables the pre-load adjustment and makes the hub a press-together design, similar to Hope Pro 2's. Great product support by easton!
    The MSRP is stupid, but not hard to find these for $1k-1500usd & well worth it IMO.
    I'll ride carbon bars, but for some reason, carbon wheels scare me. But I may have to take a peak at them, being as I'm never fully satisfied with today.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I've been debating whether to buy the DH casing DHFs or an Exo casing DHF in front with an Exo DHR2, HR2 or a DHF in back. Considering that I have pinch flatted a Hans Dampf and I'm currently riding with Dissents, the DH casings probably make the most sense.

    Hurry up, boat!
    For the weight of the single plies, I'm thinking that they're going to be bit tougher than the Control Speshies I'm running, probably a bit less than SX's, which I really like. I'm leaning toward the single ply, but who knows.

  5. #605
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    I'm not entirely on board with carbon bars or rims yet. My reluctance is entirely based on stories from people I know. While I do understand the difference between anecdotes and statistics, that understanding doesn't help me sleep better when camping in grizzly country, either.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I'm not entirely on board with carbon bars or rims yet. My reluctance is entirely based on stories from people I know. While I do understand the difference between anecdotes and statistics, that understanding doesn't help me sleep better when camping in grizzly country, either.
    Grizzlies won't mess with you if you're badass enough to ride carbon bars.

  7. #607
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Grizzlies won't mess with you if you're badass enough to ride carbon bars.
    Assuming they're these bars:

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-imageuploadedbytapatalk1364360272.107626.jpg

  8. #608
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    Been using carbon bars for ages, no issues ever, although just stick with Easton or Raceface so far. I have an old set of Easton DH bars that are so beat up it is funny, they kept going. Have bent or broken several sets of Al bars though... Carbon rims, still waiting, I've seen a few break prematurely so I'll give them a bit of time before I try em.
    Carbon cranks so far seem dumb, especially the SRAM ones, they seem to last about 2 seasons before failure under bigger riders. Saw several broken sets last year locally. For the price I'll keep my XTR's thanks!

  9. #609
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    With them, he may take your bike.

  10. #610
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    +1 on the Easton bars, I had Havens on all 3 bikes, switched to Havocs. I'm liking the 750mm. I looked at the Haven carbon wheels, they're only 21mm wide. FM, what size tires are you running on those carbon wheels?

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I am starting to notice a couple things:
    1. Wheel flex.
    2. I am more regularly flatting my beloved FR3 tires primarily through the casing. I thought these were indestructible, but I am hitting stuff harder I think and sort of slowly killing them.
    Flow EX are stiff and reasonably priced, also you can put much higher spoke tension on EX's vs normal Flow's.

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I looked at the Haven carbon wheels, they're only 21mm wide. FM, what size tires are you running on those carbon wheels?
    Running schwalbe 2.35's, HD f / NN r, tubeless, low 20's psi.

    So the flows are 22.6mm internal width. Can't say I noticed any difference at all in terms of burping or tire rolling in corners, hasn't been a problem (I do check pressure every ride with a digital guage, funny how I crash less often since doing that!). Again the stiffness difference vs. flows was immediately noticable, especially on G-outs, pumping corners at speed, off camber roots & rock etc. Difference was on the scale of going form a QR to a through axle in front.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Running schwalbe 2.35's, HD f / NN r, tubeless, low 20's psi.

    So the flows are 22.6mm internal width. Can't say I noticed any difference at all in terms of burping or tire rolling in corners, hasn't been a problem (I do check pressure every ride with a digital guage, funny how I crash less often since doing that!). Again the stiffness difference vs. flows was immediately noticable, especially on G-outs, pumping corners at speed, off camber roots & rock etc. Difference was on the scale of going form a QR to a through axle in front.
    I got the alu havens, i hate 'em with vengeance, hubs are subpar for wheelset at that price and can't change to another manufacturer hub...

    I just stopped buying system wheels and just use 32h rims+hubs now.

  14. #614
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    Hi All

    One pic of my banshees... now I have to compare with arguments the differences between 26 vs 29
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-img_3985.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-img_3984.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-2013-03-22-15.13.25.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-2013-03-22-15.12.55.jpg  


  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    I got the alu havens, i hate 'em with vengeance, hubs are subpar for wheelset at that price and can't change to another manufacturer hub...


    Get the free bearing/axle upgrade kit.
    Fixes all the issues, easy installation, even the tools are included.

    Great lookin' Prime AdrianoMTB!

  16. #616
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    Honzo TT 25" (635mm) vs Prime TT 25.4" (645mm).
    0.4" (10mm) isn't that much of a stretch over the 20" Honzo.
    I'll just have to get a shorter stem.

    Numbers wise the 20" Honzo sits between the L and XL Prime. Leaning slightly closer to XL Prime sizing though. And the Reach between the 20L Honzo and XL Prime is exactly the same (since we're splitting hairs).

    But these are all numbers on paper. Who knows if 10mm will make a giant or small difference when riding the bike.

  17. #617
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    Got out for a bit of chunk to try out my new MTX33's. Very much noticeably stiffer than my Frequency i23's. I had my suspension pretty much dialed in, but these new wheels actually make the ride feel less plush, time for a little tweaking.

  18. #618
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    Can't see how at your height you wouldn't go for the XL, but that's just my opinion and I seem to be a bit in the minority in that thinking, but at 6'2" I like the fit of the XL, but wouldn't mind the shorter wheelbase the L would give. Long knuckle dragging arms, 35.25" inseam, running a 70mm stem and 785mm wide bar, but will be going down 5mm to a 65mm stem shortly.
    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Honzo TT 25" (635mm) vs Prime TT 25.4" (645mm).
    0.4" (10mm) isn't that much of a stretch over the 20" Honzo.
    I'll just have to get a shorter stem.

    Numbers wise the 20" Honzo sits between the L and XL Prime. Leaning slightly closer to XL Prime sizing though. And the Reach between the 20L Honzo and XL Prime is exactly the same (since we're splitting hairs).

    But these are all numbers on paper. Who knows if 10mm will make a giant or small difference when riding the bike.
    People don't realise just how much other parts play in the ride of their bike besides the suspension Check your tyre pressures, maybe you can go lower there, I know I can easily notice the much differen and less plush feel if say I pump my tyres up for more gravel grinding/road connecting to get to the trails and forget to drop them - talking running 28F and 35R as compared to 21-24 F and 25-28 R. If not as you say, drop 5 PSI from the fork and shock and see what that does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Got out for a bit of chunk to try out my new MTX33's. Very much noticeably stiffer than my Frequency i23's. I had my suspension pretty much dialed in, but these new wheels actually make the ride feel less plush, time for a little tweaking.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    People don't realise just how much other parts play in the ride of their bike besides the suspension Check your tyre pressures, maybe you can go lower there, I know I can easily notice the much differen and less plush feel if say I pump my tyres up for more gravel grinding/road connecting to get to the trails and forget to drop them - talking running 28F and 35R as compared to 21-24 F and 25-28 R. If not as you say, drop 5 PSI from the fork and shock and see what that does.
    I typically ride 28F/30R, and although these rims are 3mm wider and create a bit more volume, I thought that my typical psi was a good starting point. First time also that I've had a 29er Butcher on the rear, noticeably slower than a Purgatory, I didn't get much opportunity to compare traction.

  20. #620
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    I have considered the L size but felt that it's just a little too small. My biggest waffling point about the XL size is the 21" ST. I'd much rather have a 20" ST with the other measurements staying the same. But at my height/size buying a bike has always been a set of compromises when looking at sizing/measurements.

    From my perspective, riding style (where and how you ride) factors largely into the size of bike you end up on. Or it should.

  21. #621
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    Rideeverything-
    Not to confuse the issue but I would be careful comparing size against the Honzo. I have a Small Honzo and medium Prime (both great bikes). The Honzo has pretty unique geometry- that curved seat tube is fairly steep depending on your saddle height, and a short head tube- both throw off the ETT and reach measurements. My bikes are set up nearly identical and the prime does not feel any longer in terms of reach or TT. The differences in chainstay length, wheelbase, bar height and suspension are noticable!

    Not saying you should go L or XL- just be aware...

  22. #622
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    FM,
    If I'm understanding this right it sounds like cockpit fit is similar going up a size from the the Honzo to the Prime?
    I realize the wheel base between the Honzo 20" and XL Prime is quite big. So I would assume that is where I would feel the most difference between the bikes.

    The Honzo is the first and only 29er that I've ridden. So that is my comparison point. I realize that each bike feels different when ridden compared to numbers on paper. But sometimes the numbers help.

  23. #623
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    I had a look through the Prime Participation thread and saw that there were even less photos of the Prime than in this thread! Either way I'm not going to end up with a proto so I would really like to see more photos of the production Prime. Preferably in the XL size and, hopefully, being ridden in action shots!

  24. #624
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    Some XL Prime that I haven't seen posted on here.






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  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    FM,
    If I'm understanding this right it sounds like cockpit fit is similar going up a size from the the Honzo to the Prime?
    If you were 5'-9"/175cm I would say yes. However... there's personal preference, plus our height differences... all I can say is, consider all variables.
    That and.. When in doubt, downsize on 29'er's... bigger wheels make the frame ride larger.

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    When in doubt, downsize on 29'er's... bigger wheels make the frame ride larger.
    Will need to agree to disagree on that pointdo not downsize.
    Buy the frame that fits you in ETT or Reach.
    In order of importance IMO is ETT, ST length and then stand over (unless you like spending a lot of time standing over your bike).

  27. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Will need to agree to disagree on that pointdo not downsize.
    Buy the frame that fits you in ETT or Reach.
    In order of importance IMO is ETT, ST length and then stand over (unless you like spending a lot of time standing over your bike).
    But fit is variable based on application, much like my hiking boots don't fit at all like my ski boots, and shouldn't. Another example: in the Lopes - McCormack book, both authors list the bikes they own. Lopes had several Mojos, and depending on intended use, they included both medium and small frames.

    I don't know how RideEverything would use a Prime, on what trails, how he rides, or what type of position he prefers, but given that he's looking into a Prime, that suggests a use and therefore fit that would likely favor a shorter cockpit and a more upright position. Probably. Only he can say for certain.

  28. #628
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    Fit is definitely personal preference. My point was that ETT numbers for many frames, including the honzo, can be misleading due to the curved seat tube (honzo) or other fabrication techniques.

  29. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    But fit is variable based on application, much like my hiking boots don't fit at all like my ski boots, and shouldn't. Another example: in the Lopes - McCormack book, both authors list the bikes they own. Lopes had several Mojos, and depending on intended use, they included both medium and small frames.

    I don't know how RideEverything would use a Prime, on what trails, how he rides, or what type of position he prefers, but given that he's looking into a Prime, that suggests a use and therefore fit that would likely favor a shorter cockpit and a more upright position. Probably. Only he can say for certain.
    I can agree with that, but not FM's post to downsize if in doubt as 29ers ride bigger.
    That is certainly not the case with say the SC Tallboy which feels a lot smaller than it's numbers suggest.

  30. #630
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    I went with the bigger frame and don't regret it at all. I'd rather use a 35mm stem than getting the smaller frame and needing a 80mm or so stem.

    Seat tube length should be easier on the bigger frame also. I'd like my frame to have a shorter seattube by 1cm or 2, but I'm riding a KS i950 seatpost which has a pretty big stack height. My guess is with a KS Lev or a non telescopic seatpost I'd be set on the full slamed position for when going downhill.

    Don't think that a shorter frame would make the bike that much more nimble, the chainstays measure the same, and the wheelbase difference is not that huge. Heck, even changing between the low/high positions you can mitigate those size differences (I have even thought about running the frame on the high position with an angle slacker set, just to benefit from shorter chainstays).

    Can I cut the seattube 1cm without voiding the warranty? Or just bite the bullet and buy a KS Lev?
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  31. #631
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    Well I am basically decided on the Prime and now a friend of mine wants one too after I showed him this thread.
    Just need to organise to get 2 of them down here.
    Anyone got a good lead on a dealer with good pricing?
    Failing that I think I need to get onto Banshee regarding shipping directly to me.

  32. #632
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    Chad @ Red Barn

  33. #633
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    Deal directly with Banshee, you'll be glad you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well I am basically decided on the Prime and now a friend of mine wants one too after I showed him this thread.
    Just need to organise to get 2 of them down here.
    Anyone got a good lead on a dealer with good pricing?
    Failing that I think I need to get onto Banshee regarding shipping directly to me.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  34. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I can agree with that, but not FM's post to downsize if in doubt as 29ers ride bigger.
    There's no way around it, a 29'er will almost always have a longer wheelbase than a 26'er with similar geometry & features. That is what I meant by "ride bigger" and why I said "When in doubt, downsize" on a 29'er.

    I try to separate bike fit from bike handling. Smaller bikes generally handle better, which is why 4x/slalom racers generally size down, right? But many people prefer the fit of longer cockpits for longer rides. It's personal preference. Me, I value bike handling over bike fit... also I find I don't need a long top tube or long stem to keep the front wheel down while climbing on a 29'er... so for me, I like my 29'ers a bit smaller than my 26" bikes.

    YMMV!

  35. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    There's no way around it, a 29'er will almost always have a longer wheelbase than a 26'er with similar geometry & features. That is what I meant by "ride bigger" and why I said "When in doubt, downsize" on a 29'er.

    I try to separate bike fit from bike handling. Smaller bikes generally handle better, which is why 4x/slalom racers generally size down, right? But many people prefer the fit of longer cockpits for longer rides. It's personal preference. Me, I value bike handling over bike fit... also I find I don't need a long top tube or long stem to keep the front wheel down while climbing on a 29'er... so for me, I like my 29'ers a bit smaller than my 26" bikes.

    YMMV!
    I couldn't agree more (literally), brother!

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-fm_banshee.jpg
    Last edited by jncarpenter; 03-29-2013 at 05:42 PM.


  36. #636
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    Different strokes, etc etc. All I know is that I'm 5'11 and went with a large. I also know that the Prime is my favorite bike that I've ridden, period.

  37. #637
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    Well I will question then what is more important.
    A smaller frame and longer (supposedly slower steering stem) or a longer ETT with shorter (supposedly faster handling stem).
    Both options will fit a guy but do you have a longer wheelbase and shorter stem or a shorter wheelbase and longer stem?

    I am yet to see any real significant agreement on this.

    At 6'3" I can easily ride either the L with a 70-80mm stem or the XL with a 50mm.

  38. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well I will question then what is more important.
    A smaller frame and longer (supposedly slower steering stem) or a longer ETT with shorter (supposedly faster handling stem).
    Both options will fit a guy but do you have a longer wheelbase and shorter stem or a shorter wheelbase and longer stem?

    I am yet to see any real significant agreement on this.

    At 6'3" I can easily ride either the L with a 70-80mm stem or the XL with a 50mm.
    At 6', I chose the Med. (gratefully).... I recommend the L.


  39. #639
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    I will add that I had a Medium Prototype frame and ran it with a 70 stem and it ripped just as well as the Large with the 50mm stem. I just don't like feeling cramped with the seat down, not to mention we don't have big mountain terrain around here so I wanted a tad larger frame for comfort. I honestly don't think you can go wrong either way, but if you want to maneuver tight terrain I would go with the large frame as well as I do with I had the shorter wheelbase of the medium at times myself. There is no perfect solution, compromises must be made somewhere. Just decide which compromises you can live with and those you can't

  40. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I will add that I had a Medium Prototype frame and ran it with a 70 stem and it ripped just as well as the Large with the 50mm stem. I honestly don't think you can go wrong either way,
    100% agreed, I've owned different sizes of the same bike a few times, they were all fun to ride!
    Most all of us could go up and/or down a size and be completely happy- especially with all the other possible adjustments. I have just found for 29'ers, I prefer smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well I will question then what is more important.
    I am yet to see any real significant agreement on this.

    At 6'3" I can easily ride either the L with a 70-80mm stem or the XL with a 50mm.
    The option with the shorter wheelbase will corner faster, be easier to control in the air and easier to get the front end up. You could probably get +20mm out of the seatpost/handlebar regardless of stem length. 30" bars? wider bars pull you forward, just as a longer stem would, as you probably know....

    But I agree you can't really go wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I couldn't agree more (literally), brother!
    Ha, too funny! The amazing power of rep power... or not so much

  41. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Some XL Prime that I haven't seen posted on here.
    Is this a proto or a production frame? I've seen a frame for sale that has the same dropouts and I'd like to know what it is.

    EDIT: I see it's a proto. Can someone sum up the difference from protos and production frame? Are those dropouts adjustable? are they swappable for 12x142 ones? Does it have the same geometry of the production one?

    Thanks!

  42. #642
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    You answered your question, the rest.....that is a proto.

    • Yes it has adjustable geometry.
    • NO, the adjustments aren't the same, the proto only had 2 settings 67.5* & 68.5*, the production has 3-67.5*, 68* & 68.5*. Also the production the stays get shorter as you steepen the geo whereas the proto they got longer.
    • NO the dropouts do not have a 142 x 12 option, in fact with a proto you basically only have the dropout option it has now since they didn't make a whole load of them and pretty much AFAIK there's none now available - so if for example your frame you're looking at has 150mm drops and you wanted 135mm, tough chance you'll be able to.
    • NO, the production is not the same as the proto, some small, but significant tweaks have been made the the suspension, dropouts, geo and also the tubing.


    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    Is this a proto or a production frame? I've seen a frame for sale that has the same dropouts and I'd like to know what it is.

    EDIT: I see it's a proto. Can someone sum up the difference from protos and production frame? Are those dropouts adjustable? are they swappable for 12x142 ones? Does it have the same geometry of the production one?

    Thanks!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  43. #643
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    Thank you LyNx, can you or someone confirm if this is the correct geometry table for those pre-production frames?



    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    You answered your question, the rest.....that is a proto.

    • Yes it has adjustable geometry.
    • NO, the adjustments aren't the same, the proto only had 2 settings 67.5* & 68.5*, the production has 3-67.5*, 68* & 68.5*. Also the production the stays get shorter as you steepen the geo whereas the proto they got longer.
    • NO the dropouts do not have a 142 x 12 option, in fact with a proto you basically only have the dropout option it has now since they didn't make a whole load of them and pretty much AFAIK there's none now available - so if for example your frame you're looking at has 150mm drops and you wanted 135mm, tough chance you'll be able to.
    • NO, the production is not the same as the proto, some small, but significant tweaks have been made the the suspension, dropouts, geo and also the tubing.

  44. #644
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    Thank you LyNx, can you or someone confirm if this is the correct geometry table for those pre-production frames?

    No, that's not it. I think that was a first draft. I have the correct one for the preproduction frames on my computer, but not on my phone, or I'd post it for you.

  45. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    No, that's not it. I think that was a first draft. I have the correct one for the preproduction frames on my computer, but not on my phone, or I'd post it for you.
    Ok, I found another one:



    Is this the right one?
    The proto's headtube does not look to be tapered as stated here.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by savo; 03-31-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  46. #646
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    The KS link sag charts are available at Banshee.

  47. #647
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    Went out yesterday and put a decent beat down on my MTX's, minor burped the rear 4 times with a brand new 2.3 Butcher on it, front burped once with a well used Butcher but I hit a rock HARD, surprised I didn't damage the rim. I've been doing my tape wrap and Stans with non-UST tires for 3 years and 4 different wheel sets, and have NEVER burped a tire. But, the wheels are very stiff, made a very tough bike feel even tougher. I have to figure out the burping because I definitely want to be tubeless where I ride.

  48. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Went out yesterday and put a decent beat down on my MTX's, minor burped the rear 4 times with a brand new 2.3 Butcher on it, front burped once with a well used Butcher but I hit a rock HARD, surprised I didn't damage the rim. I've been doing my tape wrap and Stans with non-UST tires for 3 years and 4 different wheel sets, and have NEVER burped a tire. But, the wheels are very stiff, made a very tough bike feel even tougher. I have to figure out the burping because I definitely want to be tubeless where I ride.
    it's too bad it looks like sun only uses stan's bead hook design on their complete wheelsets. it may be hard to keep them from burbing without that

  49. #649
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    The proto had a straight 1.5 head tube.

  50. #650
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    Really don't see too many of the flo yellow posted, stumbled upon this one on mtb-news.de. Rider is 1.85m (6'0") for those interested, frame size large.







    konahonzo

  51. #651
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    I guess I need to throw up some pics of my yellow demon now that I have the Enve AM's and DBair.

  52. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    it's too bad it looks like sun only uses stan's bead hook design on their complete wheelsets. it may be hard to keep them from burbing without that
    You're right, I completely missed that. We'll see what a few more wraps of tape will do. Worst case, I buy some Flow EX's. Cool thing about building your own wheels, doesn't cost much as long as you're reusing your hub.

  53. #653
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    Banshee Prime, Medium
    CCDBair
    Fox Float 34, 140mm
    Bars: Enve DH, 29.5"
    Stem: Thomson 50mm
    Brakes: XTR
    Shifters: X0
    Ft. Derailleur: X0
    Rear Derailleur: X9 type2
    Cranks: XT, 175mm, Gamut bash guard
    Pedals: eThirteen
    Seatpost: KS Lev, 125mm
    Seatpost clamp: Thomson
    Saddle: Chromag
    Wheels: King/Enve AM
    Tires: F - Hans Dampf 2.35, R - Nobby Nic 2.25, tubeless

    Weight: 32 lbs
    Last edited by Marshall Willanholly; 04-01-2013 at 08:14 AM.

  54. #654
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    Nice looking Prime Marshall, would have expected it to be less weight though with those carbon rims, bar and general build, makes me not feel too bad about my pre-production siting right around 34lbs with Pro2/Flow wheels and full XT build. Wanted to get one of those Hans Dampf tyres so bad, glad I didn't waste the $70-90 though as they don't last worth $hit on our coralstone - guy came down with his own bike, had one on the front, knobs started to rip off when we were out on the cliff edge "rock crawlin", Nobby Nic on his friends bike held up just fine.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  55. #655
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    New RS 2014 Pike

    A new fork is out that I think will complement the burliness of the Prime.
    Riding RockShox's New 2014 Pike - First Look - Pinkbike

    35mm stanchions and 140mm to 160mm of travel. And, it'd look sweet fully blacked out on the black Prime frame.




    **edit**
    I know this will make me sound like a noob but how do I respond to the thread so that my post ends up at the end of the thread chain rather than as a response to someones post?
    Since the recent changes here in the MTBR forum my posts never seem to end up in the thread chain where it would be appropriate. It's making my OCD crazy!
    Last edited by RideEverything; 04-04-2013 at 10:11 AM. Reason: OCD

  56. #656
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    I like that idea. I'm digging my murdered look bike, kinda wish I could get my marzocchi in the old school all black look. I still have a Pike, lowered to like 70-110mm travel (u-turn version). I can't manage to kill it, 6 seasons on the street hardtail, some time on the XC/all-mountain hardtail (on 140mm mode), open 2 times, change oil, ride again. I like the concept of closed dampers, but on real life, I still love the simplicity of open bath
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  57. #657
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    We all knew it was coming, took longer than I expected. Nice to have another fork with bigger stanchions, but it still looks like RS is following their thinking that no one rides in the mud and muck as I don't see much clearance with the tyres they were running to allow for mud - hated this about all of my previous RS forks, no such issue with the Fox.
    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    A new fork is out that I think will complement the burliness of the Prime.
    Riding RockShox's New 2014 Pike - First Look - Pinkbike

    35mm stanchions and 140mm to 160mm of travel. And, it'd look sweet fully blacked out on the black Prime frame.
    !
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    A new fork is out that I think will complement the burliness of the Prime.
    Riding RockShox's New 2014 Pike - First Look - Pinkbike

    35mm stanchions and 140mm to 160mm of travel. And, it'd look sweet fully blacked out on the black Prime frame.




    **edit**
    I know this will make me sound like a noob but how do I respond to the thread so that my post ends up at the end of the thread chain rather than as a response to someones post?
    Since the recent changes here in the MTBR forum my posts never seem to end up in the thread chain where it would be appropriate. It's making my OCD crazy!

    This pertains to my interests. Thanks for posting.

    Edited to add: No 20mm option? How freaking lame is that.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  59. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    This pertains to my interests. Thanks for posting.
    You and me both.

  60. #660
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    On top right, near the number of pages there is a horizontal line with keywords (see below): click Display. Switch that to linear and everything will be by chronological order (older messages 1st), new ones at the end

    this horizontal bar, with these options, display is last one on the right:

    View First Unread
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    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  61. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    There's no way around it, a 29'er will almost always have a longer wheelbase than a 26'er with similar geometry & features. That is what I meant by "ride bigger" and why I said "When in doubt, downsize" on a 29'er.

    I try to separate bike fit from bike handling. Smaller bikes generally handle better, which is why 4x/slalom racers generally size down, right? But many people prefer the fit of longer cockpits for longer rides. It's personal preference. Me, I value bike handling over bike fit... also I find I don't need a long top tube or long stem to keep the front wheel down while climbing on a 29'er... so for me, I like my 29'ers a bit smaller than my 26" bikes.

    YMMV!
    You have a great way with words. This is exactly what I have been trying to express for years, expressed perfectly. Just save a copy and paste in the future when called for.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  62. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    No 20mm option? How freaking lame is that.
    No 20mm option and no coil option. I was hoping for that.

  63. #663
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    Thanks Enel

  64. #664
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    If anyone has a xl frame they want to sale shoot me a pm. No shock is fine.

  65. #665
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    definitely want the Pike on my bike, maybe the next one if not current (Prime is the er, prime candidate) but i do question the clearance on the bridge, wow, why so tight??

  66. #666
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    In the 9 years I've been MTBing it seems that that is the RS way They make great forks, but clearance is always an issue with them, for either big rubber or mud That's why I like my current F34 and X-Fusion forks, they have gobs of clearance for big tyres AND mud.
    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    definitely want the Pike on my bike, maybe the next one if not current (Prime is the er, prime candidate) but i do question the clearance on the bridge, wow, why so tight??
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  67. #667
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-img_0006.jpgtah-dah
    The yellow beast has finally landed on my sofa.
    has been 2 month long journey, so she's pretty tired,
    will have some days rest before taking her to action.

  68. #668
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    what size ?

  69. #669
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    Large

  70. #670
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    Prime time

    Here's a redundant post, but I thought the prime should show itself here too.

    Well my Prime got hear yesterday. After a brief issue with the headset she's up and running. Our first romp in the dirt is tomorrow. If my initial impressions hold true I'm in for a wild ride . Here are the build specs.

    Frame: large raw
    Fork: fox float 34mm 140mm
    Rear shock: fox ctd
    Components: shimano xt 2x10
    Crank: race face atlas 175mm 26x38
    Wheels: Stan's flow ex
    Hubs: industry 9 torch
    Stem: race face atlas 50mm
    Bars: race face atlas 785mm (probably going to cut these down a bit)
    Seat post: reverb
    Pedals: black spire
    Weight: just shy of 32lbs

    More insights to follow.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-image.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-image.jpg  


  71. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    Large
    sure looks like a XL, judging from that seat post gusset and comparing with RedRiver's large..

  72. #672
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    there must be some weight discrepancy in the frames. a size large with that build and flows and big rubber, a dropper post, and in just shy of 32 pounds? seems dam light compared to some of the others.

  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    there must be some weight discrepancy in the frames. a size large with that build and flows and big rubber, a dropper post, and in just shy of 32 pounds? seems dam light compared to some of the others.
    I was at the dealer last week ordering my new Spitfire frame and they had a new yellow Prime frame hanging on the wall. Stunning for sure! I asked them to weigh it for kicks and giggles. Just the frame, no shock (just the support bar), no axle, no flip chips or dropouts, no head cups or anything. Size large was 7lbs 10oz.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  74. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoed View Post
    sure looks like a XL, judging from that seat post gusset and comparing with RedRiver's large..
    My size large yellow frame looks just like his. I think it's the angle of the pic that makes the gusset look different.

  75. #675
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    My Prime:

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-prime_v.jpg

    It's size large and I'm 189/94cm. On picture is a 30mm Syntace stem, but after 2 rides I'm not sure to keep it or change to 50mm. For real slow tech riding the short stem feels good, but for faster trails and uphill the 50mm will be better. I have to test.

    The Prime really loves challenging trails, up & down. Don't miss my FR bike and got a used Legend instead for DH. I like how the Prime doesn't feel sluggish neither at accelerating nor laying the bike from side to side and even the front is easy to lift considering the long chainstays (compared to 26").

  76. #676
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    that black bike looks stunning. wow. XTR cranks, nothing spared eh mate? what wheelset? please bore us geeks with the necessary (not) weight as well. nice photo over all, the terrain in the background looks very Prime-centric. looks like the north shore corridor, but i could be way off of course.

  77. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    You and me both.
    On the top right, under the number of the pages, you can see a bar with these buttons:


    LinkBack
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    Display

    Click display and then Swith to Linear Mode.
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  78. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    that black bike looks stunning. wow. XTR cranks, nothing spared eh mate? what wheelset? please bore us geeks with the necessary (not) weight as well. nice photo over all, the terrain in the background looks very Prime-centric. looks like the north shore corridor, but i could be way off of course.
    You are only a little off - this is in europe, austrian alps, where I live.

    Weight is approx. 14,5 kg - not super light due to the "strong" frame and built as a do-it-all bike (except DH). A lot of parts I've taken from my previous bike:

    - Banshee Prime size L
    - Fox 34 Float
    - Selfbuild wheels: CK ISO 142, e13 TRS+, Flow EX, Sapim CX-Ray
    - Schwalbe HansDampf 2.35 mounted tubeless with Stan's
    - Shimano XTR Trail brakes 203/180mm
    - Shimano XTR cranks (old) 24/36/bash
    - Syntace no. 9 pedals
    - Shimano XT 11-36 cassette
    - Sram X.9 medium cage rear der.
    - Sram X.9 S3 3x10 front der.
    - Sram X.0/X.9 trigger
    - Bionicon C-Guide (commercial ghetto chain guide)
    - Syntace Megaforce 30mm stem
    - Renthal Fatbar 20/750mm
    - ODI rough grips
    - KindShock LEV 150 hydraulic seatpost
    - WTB Devo saddle

  79. #679
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    that's a light build, impressive. i would have guessed European alps, looks amazing. must be quite the trail network nearby, very nice. looks steep! a nice slack 29er territory!

  80. #680
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    Anybody knows if it's possible to use this QR axle on Prime's 142x12 dropouts ?

    Keith?

  81. #681
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    No that axle will not work as it uses syntace standard (Conical on non drive side end). The 142 dropouts use Maxle standard, which has a square end profile.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  82. #682
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    Thanks.
    I will use the original now and with time I will see if a QR is really needed.

  83. #683
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    It has arrived, not quite finished yet though..
    XL frame
    Fox 34
    CCDBair
    CK/Hope (12x150)
    Saint M810 (1x9) gears/chainset
    Hope M4
    Straitline 50m stem
    Straitline silent guide
    RS reverb
    Chromag trailmaster
    Funn fatboy (785mm)
    DX pedals
    Dampf/Ardent (2.4)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-image.jpg  


  84. #684
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    LIKE Man, when you stand next to it it seems so big huh in the XL size, even to us tall guys, I referred to mine as Beast when I first built it, but when you take photos or just step back, it just looks so natural and balanced in proportion to the 29" wheels. How tall are you? What inseam? I think I finally settled on 65mm as the ideal stem length for me with my FUNN 785mm Fatboy DH bar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoed View Post
    It has arrived, not quite finished yet though..
    XL frame...............your basic sweet build
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  85. #685
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    6'3'' (192 cm), 34 inseam
    So glad I didn't went with the large.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-image.jpg  

    Last edited by Kofoed; 04-19-2013 at 11:56 AM.

  86. #686
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    Your build list states XL, your post says L, which is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoed View Post
    6'3'' (192 cm), 34 inseam
    So glad I didn't went with the large.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  87. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Your build list states XL, your post says L, which is it?
    The frame is a XL, I was in doubt about which size to get - but the XL is spot on, just glad i did not buy it in a size large.

  88. #688
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    Sorry, your english got me and I misread, my bad. Yeah, the XL looks small on you even. Curious what bike(s) you had before and what you think of this, especially in the XL size with the 48" WB?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoed View Post
    The frame is a XL, I was in doubt about which size to get - but the XL is spot on, just glad i did not buy it in a size large.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  89. #689
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    been riding this for a while, approx same head angle and reach as the Prime. (it's an Ari cycles custom steel frame + WB 150 fluid).
    It is now being converted to singlespeed, so I don't go and get to lazy on the fully
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-ari.jpg  


  90. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoed View Post
    6'3'' (192 cm), 34 inseam
    So glad I didn't went with the large.
    I'm the same dimensions, the XL fits perfect with a 60 mm stem. I'd be so cramped on a L...

  91. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoed View Post
    been riding this for a while, approx same head angle and reach as the Prime. (it's an Ari cycles custom steel frame + WB 150 fluid).
    It is now being converted to singlespeed, so I don't go and get to lazy on the fully
    Good idea, Kofoed. Although the Prime responds very well to short standing bursts to get up through a little tech, it can be a little mushy for sustained standing climbs, you will start sitting more. On the other hand, for sustained climbs, even very chunky and steep climbs, as long as you have legs enough, low gear seated grinding WILL get you through just about everything. Hands down, my Prime is the most capable allround bike that I have ever ridden.

  92. #692
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    First real ride tomorrow, sooooo looking forward to it.. (sadly I have to work all sunday:-S)
    Last edited by Kofoed; 04-21-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  93. #693
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    You're right, I completely missed that. We'll see what a few more wraps of tape will do. Worst case, I buy some Flow EX's. Cool thing about building your own wheels, doesn't cost much as long as you're reusing your hub.
    Optimus: any update on your tubeless experience?

  94. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Optimus: any update on your tubeless experience?
    Yes, as a matter of fact, after a few rides now, they are still burping. I was sort of hoping that after the tires had been mounted a while, the bead would kind of "stick". The more that I think about it though, the less thrilled that I am about cobbling these rims to get them to work for me. I'm a little disappointed with myself for not realizing that these are not fully tubeless compatible rims before I bought them, because otherwise I think that they are a very nicely manufactured and heavy duty rim. My last ride, which was a pretty chunky descent, I found myself being very conscious of the fact that my tires were not seated optimally, and I was riding in an appropriately subdued manner. I'll probably order some new rims today, probably some Flow EX's.

  95. #695
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p4pb9474661.jpg

    Chainguide is off, North Shore billet ring and clutch mech take care of that. (and the ring isn't even xx1 style).

    Bontranger rhytim tubeless strips let me run the light-bicycle.com carbon rims like a true tubeless, no more burping.

    The more I ride it, the better it feels. It deserves a shorter stem, and I wanted bottle cage mounts.

    Also considering getting an angle slacker headset. I like the high position a lot, but the head angle needs to be like the low/slack one.

    Is there any place I can drill my frame for stealth cable routing without voiding warranty xD ? I wouldn't mind much sending it back to have that done. This is mostly due to the new 150mm reverb only coming in stealth. I can't get my hands on a 150mm KS Lev, which should do the job fine (I don't live in US, and getting stuff from there usually ends up in 45-60% taxes, and that would bring a seatpost to 600$ range xD )
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  96. #696
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    Thanks for the reply. I've never tried tubeless, and from what I'd read so far, my MTX-33s aren't the way to start out, even ghetto.

    G_g, that looks awesome!

  97. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I've never tried tubeless, and from what I'd read so far, my MTX-33s aren't the way to start out, even ghetto.

    G_g, that looks awesome!
    The bontranger strips are different to most other options, they have a set of inner lips, creating a ust rim profile. I pumped up the hans dampf on the front with a mini pump (my mini pump is the size of a co2 cartridge, it serves dual purpose as I can use it with or without the co2. Since I only used the co2 once, and never ever used that again, I'm always using that in the hand pump mode). I never thought that would be possible without true ust rims and tires...

    I'll be making phantom'esque decals for my prime, black on black.
    At least now I have practice removing the stock white ones, so cleaning the head tube one and the small part that says prime should be an half an hour job.
    I kinda want a black reveb and the new Rock Shox pike (all black) xD
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  98. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I've never tried tubeless, and from what I'd read so far, my MTX-33s aren't the way to start out, even ghetto.

    G_g, that looks awesome!
    Just discovered this morning that WTB is to be releasing a Frequency i25, I would consider rolling that as opposed to a Flow. I had no issues with the i23's that I built, other than the fact that I could feel them flexing just a bit, but otherwise a very nice rim, still dented kind of easy though even with their "different" alloy.

  99. #699
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    I have a couple of questions, I'm thinking getting a prime frame but want to know if I get the 142x12 rear axle option does it come with the axle? And what head set have you guys been using.
    It's go time

  100. #700
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    Yes it comes with an axle.
    I'm running a CK inset 2, CC headsets are great too or if $$ are an issue go with Banshees house brand.

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