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  1. #101
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    ...but they're listed as 2.3"? The Purg is a 2.4". Are they worth the loss of volume?


  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    ...but they're listed as 2.3"? The Purg is a 2.4". Are they worth the loss of volume?
    They are to me. I also run a 2.3 Butcher on the front of my 26er. I hammer through loads of nasty rock and have never really thought that they should be fatter. I think that the little heavier sidewall/casing makes up for a bit of the loss of volume.

  3. #103
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    Just did a quick measure, on Flows, 2.3 Butcher is only .6mm or .025" narrower than the 2.4 Purg, radially from the bead to the outside diameter the Butcher is only .4mm or .015" shorter. Not much change in volume after all.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I'm not seeing any chain guide, jnc, but I won't argue that I could be blind. I'll be interested in hearing any chain drop issues during the flogging. I haven't decided on any chain guide yet, I plan to ride a bit and see if hopefully I can get away with just a stinger.
    I don't think chain dropping hasn't been an issue with the proto's, no prob's personally with a double/bash set-up and an XT GS cage. I have just switched to an XT Shadow+ and it only gets quieter...

  5. #105
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    JNC, is the post in "mock up" position or is that the actual height you run your saddle? Curious, as if that is the height you run interested to hear how it climbs the steeps with what looks like the bar quite a bit higher than the saddle.

    chain dropping - I had not much issues running a 2X setup without FD for a couple months, chain dropped a few times, had to watch not to pedal while taking a hard hit to the suspension but once I got the FD, not a drop since. Did have some chain suck issues, mostly when the drive-train was very dirty and we'd be in a lot of mud AND when I was double shifting, i.e. shifting both the front (to the granny) and rear at the same time - only happened a few times, but could also be my rings which aren't new.

    Muzz, I really, honestly hope Banshee never does step into that realm, I do not trust carbon for the type of riding this bike is intended for or the rocks we have here that I love so, just don't have the $$ if I wrecked on them and scratched it up, too easy to compromise the integrity. 1.5lbs dropped from the pre-production is a load and I'm accustomed to riding XL frames and paying that slight weight penalty, plus as I work my way back towards decent fitness it gets lighter and lighter
    Last edited by LyNx; 10-21-2012 at 06:36 AM.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    JNC, is the post in "mock up" position or is that the actual height you run your saddle? Curious, as if that is the height you run interested to hear how it climbs the steeps with what looks like the bar quite a bit higher than the saddle.
    No...it was just slammed after a neighborhood play session


  7. #107
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    LMAO I must say, there was a very wide range of people testing the Prime, but I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it since you're someone who's "familiar" to me and the variety and amount of bikes you've been through since I joined here 8 years ago is, well, to be honest astounding

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    No...it was just slammed after a neighborhood play session
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  8. #108
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    1 Ride down...time to reflect!



  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Once I swap my big ring for a bash guard, pretty much mandatory for where I ride, I always swap to a medium cage. Never tried a short with 2 chain rings. Speaking of Hammerschmidts, I had half a crazy thought of building a Hammerschmidt dinglespeed.
    Been there...


  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Muzz, I really, honestly hope Banshee never does step into that realm, I do not trust carbon for the type of riding this bike is intended for or the rocks we have here that I love so, just don't have the $$ if I wrecked on them and scratched it up, too easy to compromise the integrity. 1.5lbs dropped from the pre-production is a load and I'm accustomed to riding XL frames and paying that slight weight penalty, plus as I work my way back towards decent fitness it gets lighter and lighter
    It's all about how it's built, We ran carbon fibre guard on the rally cars with rocks hitting them at upto 140 MPH & they were in far better shape than what the tin ones used to be.

    But yes the under side of the down tube would need to be built strong.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Muzz, I really, honestly hope Banshee never does step into that realm, I do not trust carbon for the type of riding this bike is intended for
    Carbon is the real deal. I've got many friends riding carbon nomads, I've gone to carbon rims and got a carbon road bike this year..stiff, light and quiet. I also suspect it's easier to manufacture to tight tolerances with carbon. Manufacturing has progressed to a point where there are very few reasons not to do it....

  12. #112
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    Carbon is also pretty easy and reasonable to repair. I've got an old friend that works at Robert's Composites in Vancouver ( :: roberts composites :: ) and he says it is just as strong (in some cases much stronger depending on frame quality) as before the failure, and cheaper than repairing Al.
    That being said, there are a few big brands who's carbon bikes I wouldn't go near from the stories I've heard from him...

  13. #113
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    Well, don't know about "tin", but my weight weenie brother trying to save weight on his "Mazda3" rally car used a Kevlar/Carbon mixed sump and side panel guards, but they looked beat to hell after a few gravel runs with how the front tyres threw rocks at them. Def were lighter, but didn't hold up nearly as well as checker plate alu.

    I've had a rock about 1/2 the size of a rugby ball kicked up on an alu frame and hit the frame where there were bearings and it dented it real good, if that was carbon I'd not have ridden that bike again without worrying if it would fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    It's all about how it's built, We ran carbon fibre guard on the rally cars with rocks hitting them at upto 140 MPH & they were in far better shape than what the tin ones used to be.

    But yes the under side of the down tube would need to be built strong.
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  14. #114
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    In a previous life, I worked as a Tool & Die Maker for General Motors in their steering plant. We experimented with some prototype carbon fiber tie rod ends, but ended up going with steel instead. But then again, that was almost 15 years ago.

  15. #115
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    It is about time someone gets to use Z-pin reinforced composites in the MTB industry. Problem might be the cost...

    I mean, good engineered carbon will be stronger than aluminium with the same weight, or as strong as, but lighter. It just requires more effort to design and produce, and with that costs increase (not even talking about the materials).

    When someone decides to use composites that can withstand the flying rocks and all that stuff falling on rocks damage (read Z-pins, big tough kevlar layers or whatever solution they find), then the majority will realise that carbon can withstand damage. I think most people don't want to pay the price that this would imply any ways, so there should be little market (because it would end up more expensive and heavier).

    Rant over, as I am not expecting to see a prime carbon in my roster soon. (i would buy if it was available, and with the same burly and stiff mentality banshee has costumed us with

  16. #116
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    RE: chainguides. I've dropped my chain maybe half a dozen times since March. I have an e-13 DRS sitting on the bench in my friend's shop (need to put it on the drill press and adjust the alignment with the proto frame's tabs) but it hasn't been enough of an issue for me to worry about it. (2x10, mid-length RD)

    Putting it in perspective, that's almost the number of times a rock has gotten caught between my front derailleur's body and cage, 'locking out' my granny ring. I don't worry about that too much, either.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    They are to me. I also run a 2.3 Butcher on the front of my 26er. I hammer through loads of nasty rock and have never really thought that they should be fatter. I think that the little heavier sidewall/casing makes up for a bit of the loss of volume.
    I saw one on a shop floor on my recent road trip. I also saw one of the new batch Minion protos. Granted I didn't see them side-by-side, but the knobs on the Minion looked huge, and the Butcher not so much. I was a little disappointed, actually. However, given the relatively cheap price of Spec rubber, I may buy a pair with an eye towards them ending up on my Yelli.

    Unfortunately for me, gas prices spiked during my 3,000-mile drive, so since I don't have any immediate need for new tires I won't be buying any until spring.
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  18. #118
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    Oh, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for the Minion, but for bang for the buck it's hard to beat Specialized tires, IMO.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Oh, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for the Minion, but for bang for the buck it's hard to beat Specialized tires, IMO.
    I switched from Purgatories to Schwalbes this summer (hans dampf/NN). We went like 60 days without rain so I haven't had the schwalbes in proper mud yet, but for dry conditions I liked the purgatories much better.

  20. #120
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    Ooh boy, ooh boy, frame should be here Thursday.

  21. #121
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    Hello, I'm new here, but not to mountain biking. I currently have a Pivot 429 and I'm thinking of selling it to get the Prime. How well does the Prime pedal/climb. I live and ride in New Mexico and its not uncommon to do 3-4 hour technical climbs for our descents. The Pivot excels at the climbs but suffers on the way back down. Would the Prime climb well enough to be worth it?

  22. #122
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    Can't wait to see some yellow Prime builds. So stoked on this color selection by Banshee for it.


  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
    Hello, I'm new here, but not to mountain biking. I currently have a Pivot 429 and I'm thinking of selling it to get the Prime. How well does the Prime pedal/climb. I live and ride in New Mexico and its not uncommon to do 3-4 hour technical climbs for our descents. The Pivot excels at the climbs but suffers on the way back down. Would the Prime climb well enough to be worth it?
    Based on my proto, absolutely. It won't sprint up like a XC bike (not the way I built mine, anyway), but it's a capable climber. Our big alpine climbs go that long although they aren't necessarily that technical, and the Prime climbs nicely. I was a little uncertain about climbing in desert chunk since the BB is lower than what I'd ridden before, but a week in Moab and Grand Junction put that fear to rest.

    The production frames probably climb a little easier with the weight loss and suspension tweaks.
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  24. #124
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    Yup, I agree with evasive. It is a capable climber, as long as your legs last it will keep traction. The big bonus is on the dh's, it would leave the 429 in the dust, way more plush and stable.

  25. #125
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    Thanks, that's what I thought. I do like to sprint certain rough sections out of the saddle. Decisions... Decisions... Angle Fire does have lift access to some crazy good trails though...

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