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  1. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    When in doubt, downsize on 29'er's... bigger wheels make the frame ride larger.
    Will need to agree to disagree on that pointdo not downsize.
    Buy the frame that fits you in ETT or Reach.
    In order of importance IMO is ETT, ST length and then stand over (unless you like spending a lot of time standing over your bike).

  2. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Will need to agree to disagree on that pointdo not downsize.
    Buy the frame that fits you in ETT or Reach.
    In order of importance IMO is ETT, ST length and then stand over (unless you like spending a lot of time standing over your bike).
    But fit is variable based on application, much like my hiking boots don't fit at all like my ski boots, and shouldn't. Another example: in the Lopes - McCormack book, both authors list the bikes they own. Lopes had several Mojos, and depending on intended use, they included both medium and small frames.

    I don't know how RideEverything would use a Prime, on what trails, how he rides, or what type of position he prefers, but given that he's looking into a Prime, that suggests a use and therefore fit that would likely favor a shorter cockpit and a more upright position. Probably. Only he can say for certain.
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  3. #628
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    Fit is definitely personal preference. My point was that ETT numbers for many frames, including the honzo, can be misleading due to the curved seat tube (honzo) or other fabrication techniques.

  4. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    But fit is variable based on application, much like my hiking boots don't fit at all like my ski boots, and shouldn't. Another example: in the Lopes - McCormack book, both authors list the bikes they own. Lopes had several Mojos, and depending on intended use, they included both medium and small frames.

    I don't know how RideEverything would use a Prime, on what trails, how he rides, or what type of position he prefers, but given that he's looking into a Prime, that suggests a use and therefore fit that would likely favor a shorter cockpit and a more upright position. Probably. Only he can say for certain.
    I can agree with that, but not FM's post to downsize if in doubt as 29ers ride bigger.
    That is certainly not the case with say the SC Tallboy which feels a lot smaller than it's numbers suggest.

  5. #630
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    I went with the bigger frame and don't regret it at all. I'd rather use a 35mm stem than getting the smaller frame and needing a 80mm or so stem.

    Seat tube length should be easier on the bigger frame also. I'd like my frame to have a shorter seattube by 1cm or 2, but I'm riding a KS i950 seatpost which has a pretty big stack height. My guess is with a KS Lev or a non telescopic seatpost I'd be set on the full slamed position for when going downhill.

    Don't think that a shorter frame would make the bike that much more nimble, the chainstays measure the same, and the wheelbase difference is not that huge. Heck, even changing between the low/high positions you can mitigate those size differences (I have even thought about running the frame on the high position with an angle slacker set, just to benefit from shorter chainstays).

    Can I cut the seattube 1cm without voiding the warranty? Or just bite the bullet and buy a KS Lev?
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  6. #631
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    Well I am basically decided on the Prime and now a friend of mine wants one too after I showed him this thread.
    Just need to organise to get 2 of them down here.
    Anyone got a good lead on a dealer with good pricing?
    Failing that I think I need to get onto Banshee regarding shipping directly to me.

  7. #632
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    Chad @ Red Barn

  8. #633
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    Deal directly with Banshee, you'll be glad you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well I am basically decided on the Prime and now a friend of mine wants one too after I showed him this thread.
    Just need to organise to get 2 of them down here.
    Anyone got a good lead on a dealer with good pricing?
    Failing that I think I need to get onto Banshee regarding shipping directly to me.
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  9. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I can agree with that, but not FM's post to downsize if in doubt as 29ers ride bigger.
    There's no way around it, a 29'er will almost always have a longer wheelbase than a 26'er with similar geometry & features. That is what I meant by "ride bigger" and why I said "When in doubt, downsize" on a 29'er.

    I try to separate bike fit from bike handling. Smaller bikes generally handle better, which is why 4x/slalom racers generally size down, right? But many people prefer the fit of longer cockpits for longer rides. It's personal preference. Me, I value bike handling over bike fit... also I find I don't need a long top tube or long stem to keep the front wheel down while climbing on a 29'er... so for me, I like my 29'ers a bit smaller than my 26" bikes.

    YMMV!

  10. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    There's no way around it, a 29'er will almost always have a longer wheelbase than a 26'er with similar geometry & features. That is what I meant by "ride bigger" and why I said "When in doubt, downsize" on a 29'er.

    I try to separate bike fit from bike handling. Smaller bikes generally handle better, which is why 4x/slalom racers generally size down, right? But many people prefer the fit of longer cockpits for longer rides. It's personal preference. Me, I value bike handling over bike fit... also I find I don't need a long top tube or long stem to keep the front wheel down while climbing on a 29'er... so for me, I like my 29'ers a bit smaller than my 26" bikes.

    YMMV!
    I couldn't agree more (literally), brother!

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    Last edited by jncarpenter; 03-29-2013 at 06:42 PM.


  11. #636
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    Different strokes, etc etc. All I know is that I'm 5'11 and went with a large. I also know that the Prime is my favorite bike that I've ridden, period.

  12. #637
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    Well I will question then what is more important.
    A smaller frame and longer (supposedly slower steering stem) or a longer ETT with shorter (supposedly faster handling stem).
    Both options will fit a guy but do you have a longer wheelbase and shorter stem or a shorter wheelbase and longer stem?

    I am yet to see any real significant agreement on this.

    At 6'3" I can easily ride either the L with a 70-80mm stem or the XL with a 50mm.

  13. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well I will question then what is more important.
    A smaller frame and longer (supposedly slower steering stem) or a longer ETT with shorter (supposedly faster handling stem).
    Both options will fit a guy but do you have a longer wheelbase and shorter stem or a shorter wheelbase and longer stem?

    I am yet to see any real significant agreement on this.

    At 6'3" I can easily ride either the L with a 70-80mm stem or the XL with a 50mm.
    At 6', I chose the Med. (gratefully).... I recommend the L.


  14. #639
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    I will add that I had a Medium Prototype frame and ran it with a 70 stem and it ripped just as well as the Large with the 50mm stem. I just don't like feeling cramped with the seat down, not to mention we don't have big mountain terrain around here so I wanted a tad larger frame for comfort. I honestly don't think you can go wrong either way, but if you want to maneuver tight terrain I would go with the large frame as well as I do with I had the shorter wheelbase of the medium at times myself. There is no perfect solution, compromises must be made somewhere. Just decide which compromises you can live with and those you can't

  15. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I will add that I had a Medium Prototype frame and ran it with a 70 stem and it ripped just as well as the Large with the 50mm stem. I honestly don't think you can go wrong either way,
    100% agreed, I've owned different sizes of the same bike a few times, they were all fun to ride!
    Most all of us could go up and/or down a size and be completely happy- especially with all the other possible adjustments. I have just found for 29'ers, I prefer smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well I will question then what is more important.
    I am yet to see any real significant agreement on this.

    At 6'3" I can easily ride either the L with a 70-80mm stem or the XL with a 50mm.
    The option with the shorter wheelbase will corner faster, be easier to control in the air and easier to get the front end up. You could probably get +20mm out of the seatpost/handlebar regardless of stem length. 30" bars? wider bars pull you forward, just as a longer stem would, as you probably know....

    But I agree you can't really go wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I couldn't agree more (literally), brother!
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  16. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Some XL Prime that I haven't seen posted on here.
    Is this a proto or a production frame? I've seen a frame for sale that has the same dropouts and I'd like to know what it is.

    EDIT: I see it's a proto. Can someone sum up the difference from protos and production frame? Are those dropouts adjustable? are they swappable for 12x142 ones? Does it have the same geometry of the production one?

    Thanks!

  17. #642
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    You answered your question, the rest.....that is a proto.

    • Yes it has adjustable geometry.
    • NO, the adjustments aren't the same, the proto only had 2 settings 67.5* & 68.5*, the production has 3-67.5*, 68* & 68.5*. Also the production the stays get shorter as you steepen the geo whereas the proto they got longer.
    • NO the dropouts do not have a 142 x 12 option, in fact with a proto you basically only have the dropout option it has now since they didn't make a whole load of them and pretty much AFAIK there's none now available - so if for example your frame you're looking at has 150mm drops and you wanted 135mm, tough chance you'll be able to.
    • NO, the production is not the same as the proto, some small, but significant tweaks have been made the the suspension, dropouts, geo and also the tubing.


    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    Is this a proto or a production frame? I've seen a frame for sale that has the same dropouts and I'd like to know what it is.

    EDIT: I see it's a proto. Can someone sum up the difference from protos and production frame? Are those dropouts adjustable? are they swappable for 12x142 ones? Does it have the same geometry of the production one?

    Thanks!
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  18. #643
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    Thank you LyNx, can you or someone confirm if this is the correct geometry table for those pre-production frames?



    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    You answered your question, the rest.....that is a proto.

    • Yes it has adjustable geometry.
    • NO, the adjustments aren't the same, the proto only had 2 settings 67.5* & 68.5*, the production has 3-67.5*, 68* & 68.5*. Also the production the stays get shorter as you steepen the geo whereas the proto they got longer.
    • NO the dropouts do not have a 142 x 12 option, in fact with a proto you basically only have the dropout option it has now since they didn't make a whole load of them and pretty much AFAIK there's none now available - so if for example your frame you're looking at has 150mm drops and you wanted 135mm, tough chance you'll be able to.
    • NO, the production is not the same as the proto, some small, but significant tweaks have been made the the suspension, dropouts, geo and also the tubing.

  19. #644
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    Thank you LyNx, can you or someone confirm if this is the correct geometry table for those pre-production frames?

    No, that's not it. I think that was a first draft. I have the correct one for the preproduction frames on my computer, but not on my phone, or I'd post it for you.
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  20. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    No, that's not it. I think that was a first draft. I have the correct one for the preproduction frames on my computer, but not on my phone, or I'd post it for you.
    Ok, I found another one:



    Is this the right one?
    The proto's headtube does not look to be tapered as stated here.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by savo; 03-31-2013 at 08:48 AM.

  21. #646
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    The KS link sag charts are available at Banshee.

  22. #647
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    Went out yesterday and put a decent beat down on my MTX's, minor burped the rear 4 times with a brand new 2.3 Butcher on it, front burped once with a well used Butcher but I hit a rock HARD, surprised I didn't damage the rim. I've been doing my tape wrap and Stans with non-UST tires for 3 years and 4 different wheel sets, and have NEVER burped a tire. But, the wheels are very stiff, made a very tough bike feel even tougher. I have to figure out the burping because I definitely want to be tubeless where I ride.

  23. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Went out yesterday and put a decent beat down on my MTX's, minor burped the rear 4 times with a brand new 2.3 Butcher on it, front burped once with a well used Butcher but I hit a rock HARD, surprised I didn't damage the rim. I've been doing my tape wrap and Stans with non-UST tires for 3 years and 4 different wheel sets, and have NEVER burped a tire. But, the wheels are very stiff, made a very tough bike feel even tougher. I have to figure out the burping because I definitely want to be tubeless where I ride.
    it's too bad it looks like sun only uses stan's bead hook design on their complete wheelsets. it may be hard to keep them from burbing without that

  24. #649
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    The proto had a straight 1.5 head tube.

  25. #650
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    Really don't see too many of the flo yellow posted, stumbled upon this one on mtb-news.de. Rider is 1.85m (6'0") for those interested, frame size large.








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