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  1. #101
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    ...but they're listed as 2.3"? The Purg is a 2.4". Are they worth the loss of volume?


  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    ...but they're listed as 2.3"? The Purg is a 2.4". Are they worth the loss of volume?
    They are to me. I also run a 2.3 Butcher on the front of my 26er. I hammer through loads of nasty rock and have never really thought that they should be fatter. I think that the little heavier sidewall/casing makes up for a bit of the loss of volume.
    Low and slack.

  3. #103
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    Just did a quick measure, on Flows, 2.3 Butcher is only .6mm or .025" narrower than the 2.4 Purg, radially from the bead to the outside diameter the Butcher is only .4mm or .015" shorter. Not much change in volume after all.
    Low and slack.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I'm not seeing any chain guide, jnc, but I won't argue that I could be blind. I'll be interested in hearing any chain drop issues during the flogging. I haven't decided on any chain guide yet, I plan to ride a bit and see if hopefully I can get away with just a stinger.
    I don't think chain dropping hasn't been an issue with the proto's, no prob's personally with a double/bash set-up and an XT GS cage. I have just switched to an XT Shadow+ and it only gets quieter...

  5. #105
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    JNC, is the post in "mock up" position or is that the actual height you run your saddle? Curious, as if that is the height you run interested to hear how it climbs the steeps with what looks like the bar quite a bit higher than the saddle.

    chain dropping - I had not much issues running a 2X setup without FD for a couple months, chain dropped a few times, had to watch not to pedal while taking a hard hit to the suspension but once I got the FD, not a drop since. Did have some chain suck issues, mostly when the drive-train was very dirty and we'd be in a lot of mud AND when I was double shifting, i.e. shifting both the front (to the granny) and rear at the same time - only happened a few times, but could also be my rings which aren't new.

    Muzz, I really, honestly hope Banshee never does step into that realm, I do not trust carbon for the type of riding this bike is intended for or the rocks we have here that I love so, just don't have the $$ if I wrecked on them and scratched it up, too easy to compromise the integrity. 1.5lbs dropped from the pre-production is a load and I'm accustomed to riding XL frames and paying that slight weight penalty, plus as I work my way back towards decent fitness it gets lighter and lighter
    Last edited by LyNx; 10-21-2012 at 06:36 AM.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    JNC, is the post in "mock up" position or is that the actual height you run your saddle? Curious, as if that is the height you run interested to hear how it climbs the steeps with what looks like the bar quite a bit higher than the saddle.
    No...it was just slammed after a neighborhood play session


  7. #107
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    LMAO I must say, there was a very wide range of people testing the Prime, but I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it since you're someone who's "familiar" to me and the variety and amount of bikes you've been through since I joined here 8 years ago is, well, to be honest astounding

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    No...it was just slammed after a neighborhood play session
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  8. #108
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    1 Ride down...time to reflect!



  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Once I swap my big ring for a bash guard, pretty much mandatory for where I ride, I always swap to a medium cage. Never tried a short with 2 chain rings. Speaking of Hammerschmidts, I had half a crazy thought of building a Hammerschmidt dinglespeed.
    Been there...


  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Muzz, I really, honestly hope Banshee never does step into that realm, I do not trust carbon for the type of riding this bike is intended for or the rocks we have here that I love so, just don't have the $$ if I wrecked on them and scratched it up, too easy to compromise the integrity. 1.5lbs dropped from the pre-production is a load and I'm accustomed to riding XL frames and paying that slight weight penalty, plus as I work my way back towards decent fitness it gets lighter and lighter
    It's all about how it's built, We ran carbon fibre guard on the rally cars with rocks hitting them at upto 140 MPH & they were in far better shape than what the tin ones used to be.

    But yes the under side of the down tube would need to be built strong.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Muzz, I really, honestly hope Banshee never does step into that realm, I do not trust carbon for the type of riding this bike is intended for
    Carbon is the real deal. I've got many friends riding carbon nomads, I've gone to carbon rims and got a carbon road bike this year..stiff, light and quiet. I also suspect it's easier to manufacture to tight tolerances with carbon. Manufacturing has progressed to a point where there are very few reasons not to do it....

  12. #112
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    Carbon is also pretty easy and reasonable to repair. I've got an old friend that works at Robert's Composites in Vancouver ( :: roberts composites :: ) and he says it is just as strong (in some cases much stronger depending on frame quality) as before the failure, and cheaper than repairing Al.
    That being said, there are a few big brands who's carbon bikes I wouldn't go near from the stories I've heard from him...

  13. #113
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    Well, don't know about "tin", but my weight weenie brother trying to save weight on his "Mazda3" rally car used a Kevlar/Carbon mixed sump and side panel guards, but they looked beat to hell after a few gravel runs with how the front tyres threw rocks at them. Def were lighter, but didn't hold up nearly as well as checker plate alu.

    I've had a rock about 1/2 the size of a rugby ball kicked up on an alu frame and hit the frame where there were bearings and it dented it real good, if that was carbon I'd not have ridden that bike again without worrying if it would fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    It's all about how it's built, We ran carbon fibre guard on the rally cars with rocks hitting them at upto 140 MPH & they were in far better shape than what the tin ones used to be.

    But yes the under side of the down tube would need to be built strong.
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  14. #114
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    In a previous life, I worked as a Tool & Die Maker for General Motors in their steering plant. We experimented with some prototype carbon fiber tie rod ends, but ended up going with steel instead. But then again, that was almost 15 years ago.
    Low and slack.

  15. #115
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    It is about time someone gets to use Z-pin reinforced composites in the MTB industry. Problem might be the cost...

    I mean, good engineered carbon will be stronger than aluminium with the same weight, or as strong as, but lighter. It just requires more effort to design and produce, and with that costs increase (not even talking about the materials).

    When someone decides to use composites that can withstand the flying rocks and all that stuff falling on rocks damage (read Z-pins, big tough kevlar layers or whatever solution they find), then the majority will realise that carbon can withstand damage. I think most people don't want to pay the price that this would imply any ways, so there should be little market (because it would end up more expensive and heavier).

    Rant over, as I am not expecting to see a prime carbon in my roster soon. (i would buy if it was available, and with the same burly and stiff mentality banshee has costumed us with

  16. #116
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    RE: chainguides. I've dropped my chain maybe half a dozen times since March. I have an e-13 DRS sitting on the bench in my friend's shop (need to put it on the drill press and adjust the alignment with the proto frame's tabs) but it hasn't been enough of an issue for me to worry about it. (2x10, mid-length RD)

    Putting it in perspective, that's almost the number of times a rock has gotten caught between my front derailleur's body and cage, 'locking out' my granny ring. I don't worry about that too much, either.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    They are to me. I also run a 2.3 Butcher on the front of my 26er. I hammer through loads of nasty rock and have never really thought that they should be fatter. I think that the little heavier sidewall/casing makes up for a bit of the loss of volume.
    I saw one on a shop floor on my recent road trip. I also saw one of the new batch Minion protos. Granted I didn't see them side-by-side, but the knobs on the Minion looked huge, and the Butcher not so much. I was a little disappointed, actually. However, given the relatively cheap price of Spec rubber, I may buy a pair with an eye towards them ending up on my Yelli.

    Unfortunately for me, gas prices spiked during my 3,000-mile drive, so since I don't have any immediate need for new tires I won't be buying any until spring.

  18. #118
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    Oh, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for the Minion, but for bang for the buck it's hard to beat Specialized tires, IMO.
    Low and slack.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Oh, I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for the Minion, but for bang for the buck it's hard to beat Specialized tires, IMO.
    I switched from Purgatories to Schwalbes this summer (hans dampf/NN). We went like 60 days without rain so I haven't had the schwalbes in proper mud yet, but for dry conditions I liked the purgatories much better.

  20. #120
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    Ooh boy, ooh boy, frame should be here Thursday.
    Low and slack.

  21. #121
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    Hello, I'm new here, but not to mountain biking. I currently have a Pivot 429 and I'm thinking of selling it to get the Prime. How well does the Prime pedal/climb. I live and ride in New Mexico and its not uncommon to do 3-4 hour technical climbs for our descents. The Pivot excels at the climbs but suffers on the way back down. Would the Prime climb well enough to be worth it?

  22. #122
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    Can't wait to see some yellow Prime builds. So stoked on this color selection by Banshee for it.

    konahonzo

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
    Hello, I'm new here, but not to mountain biking. I currently have a Pivot 429 and I'm thinking of selling it to get the Prime. How well does the Prime pedal/climb. I live and ride in New Mexico and its not uncommon to do 3-4 hour technical climbs for our descents. The Pivot excels at the climbs but suffers on the way back down. Would the Prime climb well enough to be worth it?
    Based on my proto, absolutely. It won't sprint up like a XC bike (not the way I built mine, anyway), but it's a capable climber. Our big alpine climbs go that long although they aren't necessarily that technical, and the Prime climbs nicely. I was a little uncertain about climbing in desert chunk since the BB is lower than what I'd ridden before, but a week in Moab and Grand Junction put that fear to rest.

    The production frames probably climb a little easier with the weight loss and suspension tweaks.

  24. #124
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    Yup, I agree with evasive. It is a capable climber, as long as your legs last it will keep traction. The big bonus is on the dh's, it would leave the 429 in the dust, way more plush and stable.

  25. #125
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    Thanks, that's what I thought. I do like to sprint certain rough sections out of the saddle. Decisions... Decisions... Angle Fire does have lift access to some crazy good trails though...

  26. #126
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    Will those that have ridden the Turner Sultan (dw-link) compare it to the Prime?

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
    Thanks, that's what I thought. I do like to sprint certain rough sections out of the saddle
    Oh, so do I, although I'm not enough of a gazelle to keep it up too long.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by disjointed View Post
    Will those that have ridden the Turner Sultan (dw-link) compare it to the Prime?
    I don't have much time on a Sultan, just a demo ride. My take is that although there's only 10mm difference in travel, one is a trail bike and the other is an AM bike. Both nice bikes, but in different categories, IMO.

  29. #129
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    <object width='500' height='281'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='AllowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/282702' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/282702' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='281' allowFullScreen='true' AllowScriptAccess='always' /></embed></object>
    konahonzo

  30. #130
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    Have to agree with Evasive and MartinS, Prime climbs unreal, once you have the legs to keep it going, but that seems to feel lesser/less effort the more tech it gets and the more the suspension comes into play and you have to be moving about the cockpit clearing the climb. Love to climb myself, the more tech the better. Think the little diet Keith put the production version on should also help nicely on long climbs.

    If you're wanting something that'll kill the downs and still kill the climbs, def the Prime, but as Evasive said, not an XC light bike, so legs will get work, but it's efficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
    Hello, I'm new here, but not to mountain biking. I currently have a Pivot 429 and I'm thinking of selling it to get the Prime. How well does the Prime pedal/climb. I live and ride in New Mexico and its not uncommon to do 3-4 hour technical climbs for our descents. The Pivot excels at the climbs but suffers on the way back down. Would the Prime climb well enough to be worth it?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    I had no problems grinding up +30min fire road grinds on Dolomites, with 28t front ring and 36 cassette, on downs kept up with 160mm trail bikes, all good.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Have to agree with Evasive and MartinS, Prime climbs unreal, once you have the legs to keep it going, but that seems to feel lesser/less effort the more tech it gets and the more the suspension comes into play and you have to be moving about the cockpit clearing the climb. Love to climb myself, the more tech the better. Think the little diet Keith put the production version on should also help nicely on long climbs.

    If you're wanting something that'll kill the downs and still kill the climbs, def the Prime, but as Evasive said, not an XC light bike, so legs will get work, but it's efficient.
    Sounds good to me. My Pivot must be 30ish lbs anyway. You can just really hammer on it out of the saddle and it launches up hills. When things start going down though that 72degree head angle keeps things a little sketchy... I'm 6'4" 200 lbs with a 34" inseam and love a slack bike. I grew up on dirt bikes so I'm always launching off of everything. The pivot just jumps a little weird, but 29" wheels on an XL bike does feel like I finally found a bike that fits. The Prime is just the first one I've seen that is set up like I would have a 26er.
    To me XL 26ers just look wrong. Very ill proportioned.

  33. #133
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    I know the feeling and my friends comment to me the first time he saw me on my first 29er always sticks with me, "Hey Lynx, you finally have a bike your size, if they were to scale up my bike to the right size for you, that'd be it". Attached a pic of me and "The Beast" , more can be found here

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
    Sounds good to me. My Pivot must be 30ish lbs anyway. You can just really hammer on it out of the saddle and it launches up hills. When things start going down though that 72degree head angle keeps things a little sketchy... I'm 6'4" 200 lbs with a 34" inseam and love a slack bike. I grew up on dirt bikes so I'm always launching off of everything. The pivot just jumps a little weird, but 29" wheels on an XL bike does feel like I finally found a bike that fits. The Prime is just the first one I've seen that is set up like I would have a 26er.
    To me XL 26ers just look wrong. Very ill proportioned.
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash-VR View Post
    Sounds good to me. My Pivot must be 30ish lbs anyway. You can just really hammer on it out of the saddle and it launches up hills. When things start going down though that 72degree head angle keeps things a little sketchy... I'm 6'4" 200 lbs with a 34" inseam and love a slack bike. I grew up on dirt bikes so I'm always launching off of everything. The pivot just jumps a little weird, but 29" wheels on an XL bike does feel like I finally found a bike that fits. The Prime is just the first one I've seen that is set up like I would have a 26er.
    To me XL 26ers just look wrong. Very ill proportioned.
    Sounds like you are my clone, dimensionally speaking...
    Although I still love my 26er!
    A 72 HA sounds ridiculous to me, maybe that is why I wasn't overly enthusiastic about the 429 when I tried one.

  35. #135
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    Has anyone been able to compare the Prime to a Yeti SB95? They actually seem like the most comparable of the AM 29ers at the moment...

  36. #136
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    Short answer- the Prime is much stiffer.

    I rode one for ~30 minutes at Outerbike. Despite being a 29er guy, I preferred the coil-sprung SB66. I thought I'd really like the SB95 but I didn't. I liked the Tallboy LTc much more. Great thing about demos...

    IMO the AM 29er class is still small: WFO9, Lunchbox, maybe the Tracer29, the Prime, and soon the Covert 29. There are some major differences between those frames, but I don't think anything else is as burly, which to me is the major difference between trail and AM in the 29er world where suspension travel is more limited. I see a trail bike as something I would ride if I had more rolling terrain, but here we do big climbs for big descents. Whether you agree or find that useful is your call, however. Opinions on this vary widely.
    Last edited by evasive; 10-25-2012 at 02:30 PM.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Short answer- the Prime is much stiffer.

    I rode one for ~30 minutes at Outerbike. Despite being a 29er guy, I preferred the coil-sprung SB66. I thought I'd really like the SB95 but I didn't. I liked the Tallboy LTc much more. Great thing about demos...

    IMO the AM 29er class is still small: WFO9, Lunchbox, maybe the Tracer29, the Prime, and soon the Covert 29. There are some major differences between those frames, but I don't think anything else is as burly, which to me is the major difference between trail and AM in the 29er world where suspension travel is more limited. I see a trail bike as something I would ride if I had more rolling terrain, but here we do big climbs for big descents. Whether you agree or find that useful is your call, however. Opinions on this vary widely.
    I have rolling terrain in my back yard, but do big climbs for big descents on a regular basis. I have it narrowed down to the SB66c, Prime, and Turner Burner... It's a great time to be a mountain biker, but there are some hard decisions when it comes to bike choice...

  38. #138
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    I had a Sultan this past season and it's a great bike. I actually kept it around to make sure I'd like the Prime THAT much before I sold it

    My opinion on the Sultan versus Prime is, the Prime is more "ME". I like chunk. 3-4' drops, rocky descents, etc. I never worried about the Sultan breaking on me but it wasn't made exclusively for Whistler type conditions. The Sultan can take a ton of abuse but the geometry wasn't designed for it. The Prime IS an all mountain/light downhill bike and you can tell. The geometry and stiffness scream for MOAR the second you jump on it! The thing is so easy to manual, pop off small trail obstacles, taking rocky chutes in non-advisable speeds... Just a blast!

    Here's a +/- comparo:

    Stiffness: Prime
    Flickability: Prime
    Climbing: tie
    Descending: Prime
    Hucking: Prime
    Jumping: Prime
    Weight: Sultan
    Build quality: Sultan
    Resale: Sultan
    Sexiness: Prime
    Out of saddle pedaling: tie
    All day enduro comfort: Sultan
    Versatility: Prime
    Ingenuity: Prime
    Raising the bar: Prime

    In a simple, non-professional wrap up... The Prime is more fun!

    Now to the SB95... My best riding buddy actually has one and I'm not a huge fan from an AM perspective. It's an incredible bike but, to me, the geo doesn't match the personality of the bike. What I mean is, the numbers would suggest it's clearly an AM bike but the pedal platform and overall feel of the bike leans more toward a stiff, efficient trail bike. The Sultan, to me, is more AM than the SB95 even though the SB has the Sultan whipped in the aggressive AM geo category. I like the SB but it's more in the RIP9, Tallboy, Mach 429 league even though it's really slack. It's not stiff enough or plush enough to be considered an AM bike. It is, however, the king of the trail bike category if you ask me I would actually buy one if all I rode was flowy, buff singletrack. I think it would beat the crap out of me on my normal riding spots.

    I'll have a Butcher as a front tire review coming pretty soon My LBS has been hooking me up with all kinds of new goodies recently

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I had a Sultan this past season and it's a great bike. I actually kept it around to make sure I'd like the Prime THAT much before I sold it

    My opinion on the Sultan versus Prime is, the Prime is more "ME". I like chunk. 3-4' drops, rocky descents, etc. I never worried about the Sultan breaking on me but it wasn't made exclusively for Whistler type conditions. The Sultan can take a ton of abuse but the geometry wasn't designed for it. The Prime IS an all mountain/light downhill bike and you can tell. The geometry and stiffness scream for MOAR the second you jump on it! The thing is so easy to manual, pop off small trail obstacles, taking rocky chutes in non-advisable speeds... Just a blast!

    Here's a +/- comparo:

    Stiffness: Prime
    Flickability: Prime
    Climbing: tie
    Descending: Prime
    Hucking: Prime
    Jumping: Prime
    Weight: Sultan
    Build quality: Sultan
    Resale: Sultan
    Sexiness: Prime
    Out of saddle pedaling: tie
    All day enduro comfort: Sultan
    Versatility: Prime
    Ingenuity: Prime
    Raising the bar: Prime

    In a simple, non-professional wrap up... The Prime is more fun!

    Now to the SB95... My best riding buddy actually has one and I'm not a huge fan from an AM perspective. It's an incredible bike but, to me, the geo doesn't match the personality of the bike. What I mean is, the numbers would suggest it's clearly an AM bike but the pedal platform and overall feel of the bike leans more toward a stiff, efficient trail bike. The Sultan, to me, is more AM than the SB95 even though the SB has the Sultan whipped in the aggressive AM geo category. I like the SB but it's more in the RIP9, Tallboy, Mach 429 league even though it's really slack. It's not stiff enough or plush enough to be considered an AM bike. It is, however, the king of the trail bike category if you ask me I would actually buy one if all I rode was flowy, buff singletrack. I think it would beat the crap out of me on my normal riding spots.

    I'll have a Butcher as a front tire review coming pretty soon My LBS has been hooking me up with all kinds of new goodies recently
    After a handful of rides...I would offer my thoughts on the Sultan/ Prime comparo as such:

    Stiffness: A wash...after 3 years on the dw sultan, I expected the Prime to blow it away...but it didn't. BOTH are very stiff 29er frames.
    Flickability: Prime (yup)
    Climbing: Sultan takes this one unless it is seriously techinical...otherwise the Prime tends to be a bit less pedal feedback under really steep climbs.
    Descending: Prime (yup)
    Hucking: Prime (duh)
    Jumping: Prime (close tho)
    Weight: Sultan
    Build quality: Sultan (definitely)
    Resale: we shall see
    Sexiness: Both
    Out of saddle pedaling: Sultan is a much more firm platform out of saddle...tho the Prime can handle it's own.
    All day enduro comfort: Untested as of yet...stay tuned!
    Versatility: Prime
    Ingenuity: ??? I think the Sultan having at least 3 years of pushing the 29er bar would give it the nod here.
    Raising the bar: OK...I can agree; Prime


  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    After a handful of rides...I would offer my thoughts on the Sultan/ Prime comparo as such:

    Stiffness: A wash...after 3 years on the dw sultan, I expected the Prime to blow it away...but it didn't. BOTH are very stiff 29er frames.
    Flickability: Prime (yup)
    Climbing: Sultan takes this one unless it is seriously techinical...otherwise the Prime tends to be a bit less pedal feedback under really steep climbs.
    Descending: Prime (yup)
    Hucking: Prime (duh)
    Jumping: Prime (close tho)
    Weight: Sultan
    Build quality: Sultan (definitely)
    Resale: we shall see
    Sexiness: Both
    Out of saddle pedaling: Sultan is a much more firm platform out of saddle...tho the Prime can handle it's own.
    All day enduro comfort: Untested as of yet...stay tuned!
    Versatility: Prime
    Ingenuity: ??? I think the Sultan having at least 3 years of pushing the 29er bar would give it the nod here.
    Raising the bar: OK...I can agree; Prime
    I will add that my Sultan was a L and my Prime is a M. Also, they have different shocks and I seriously doubt I had them tuned the same

    I gave ingenuity to the Prime SOLELY because of the adjustable/replaceable dropouts that change angles and axle standards

    I can't argue with you one bit! They're both excellent bikes and opinions are like arse holes

  41. #141
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    Cheese heads screwed up my address, my Prime's floating around somewhere in UPS limbo, I may not get it until next week now. Jeez.

  42. #142
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    Oh man, that sucks. I would be so worked up after all the anticipation.

    I'm friends with my UPS man, so if it makes it onto his truck, I'm golden.

  43. #143
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    Tracking now shows tomorrow delivery, but it said that yesterday for today. 150 drop outs are out a few weeks or so yet, so I bought the 135's also, I'll ride that back until the 150's get here. Probably handy to have both anyway. It's been a long wait, which I knew up front, but it really irritated me to have it get screwed up not 10 miles from my eager hands.

  44. #144
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    Is yours coming with 142mm dropouts??? I'm trying to get a set if you want to sell them

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I can't argue with you one bit! They're both excellent bikes and opinions are like arse holes
    Definitely, although you and I seem to be of similar minds, except I liked the Tallboy LTc a lot more than I liked the SB95. Didn't expect that to be the case.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    Is yours coming with 142mm dropouts??? I'm trying to get a set if you want to sell them
    No, coming with 135, I'll be running 150 as soon as they are manufactured.

  47. #147
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    I'm afraid to test ride a Tallboy LTc. Might end up costly:/

    By the way, I was referring to the regular Tallboy, NOT the LT in my review

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    No, coming with 135, I'll be running 150 as soon as they are manufactured.


    I'm waiting on the 142s...

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    I'm afraid to test ride a Tallboy LTc. Might end up costly:/
    The tallboy is curious to me, on paper at least.... steeper head angles and longer chainstays, compared to the prime....yet people seem to love it. I am sure it's a great bike, I'll have to try one someday.

    Today I really enjoyed my Prime though

  50. #150
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    Honestly, the ONLY thing that intrigues me about the LTc would be the possibility of a 26lbs heavy duty bike The geo doesn't speak to me at all...

  51. #151
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    Hi Guys,
    Loving the reviews! please keep your ride thoughts coming, pics and vids if you got them

    I have a medium Prime coming soon, and I am really looking forward to it!

    Currently riding a Medium NomadC around with 66's on it and its a bit of a handful for my neck of the woods, so I am hoping the Prime will make a better all day ride, for our little trails around south Wales

  52. #152
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    Not sure what stay clearance is like on the Nomad, but for sure that's something you'll love about the Prime; room enough for 2.4" Ardent and still loads of room for mud and muck. FYI, I just measured my pre-production chain and seat stays yesterday 83 & 86mm wide Oh and you'll love the general feel and ride of it as well, great all rounder , especially if you're biased to the bigger DHs.
    Quote Originally Posted by phat-ant View Post
    Hi Guys,
    Loving the reviews! please keep your ride thoughts coming, pics and vids if you got them

    I have a medium Prime coming soon, and I am really looking forward to it!

    Currently riding a Medium NomadC around with 66's on it and its a bit of a handful for my neck of the woods, so I am hoping the Prime will make a better all day ride, for our little trails around south Wales
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  53. #153
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    I won't bore you guys with what I'll be doing tonight. Pictures soon.

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I won't bore you guys with what I'll be doing tonight. Pictures soon.
    Godspeed, Sir!


  55. #155
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    Fall weather/ riding! What could be better?!



  56. #156
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    At midnight I realized that I didn't have the little end cover thingies for my cables, so I called it a night. I'll finish it today. I'll tell you what though, I have my KS LEV right at the minimum insertion line to get the extension that I ride, may have to violate it just a bit.

  57. #157
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    [QUOTE=Optimus;9820767I'll tell you what though, I have my KS LEV right at the minimum insertion line to get the extension that I ride, may have to violate it just a bit.[/QUOTE]

    Join the club

  58. #158
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    Kind of a crappy pic, better ones to follow. But anyway, taddah!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dscn7443.jpg  


  59. #159
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    Congrats!

  60. #160
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    Just finished shortening the hoses, back was a breeze, front was a real pita. Going out to wrap my chain stay, maiden voyage in the morning.

    Banshee peoples- very nice quality. Appearance and finish are excellent, welds are very nice, all mechanical features smooth and free, trouble free assembly. This is my second Banshee frame, and I am very pleased to this point.

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Just finished shortening the hoses, back was a breeze, front was a real pita. Going out to wrap my chain stay, maiden voyage in the morning.

    Banshee peoples- very nice quality. Appearance and finish are excellent, welds are very nice, all mechanical features smooth and free, trouble free assembly. This is my second Banshee frame, and I am very pleased to this point.
    Much easier when the frame isn't built up.
    konahonzo

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Much easier when the frame isn't built up.
    5 minute job regardless, ready to rock and roll.

  63. #163
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    5 hour shake down cruise this morning.

    Initially, it felt tall, felt firm. As I got warmed up to it and started to understand how it likes to work, I started to like the firmness for general purpose trail pedalling. I played around with the CTD settings, I used T for everything except downhill chunky. I'm sure that once the suspensions breaks in it will feel a bit softer. One of my biggest complaints with my Firebird has always been that it's overly plush for my liking, so the Prime is fine. Down hill, through the chunk, shock on D, this bike rips. All thoughts of firm went away, I hammered thru all kinds of rock and drops of 2 foot or so and the Prime gobbled it all up. In places where I normally slow down and pick my way thru, I just leaned back a bit and stayed off the brakes, this bike held it's line superbly and plowed through with complete confidence. I even found myself taking new lines simply because I knew this beast would eat it up. In a nut shell, I LIKE IT!!!

    33.1 lbs
    Medium
    F34 Talas fork
    Fox CTD rear shock
    e*thirteen LG1+ hubs, rear 150mm (rear currently is DT Swiss 240s 135 mm, waiting on drop outs)
    WTB i23 rims
    Butcher 2.3 Control front 27 psi, Purgatory 2.3 Control rear 30 psi, both tubeless
    Saint brakes w/Icetech rotors, 203mm front, 180mm rear
    X9 derailluers and shifters
    2X10
    XT cranks
    Saint pedals
    KS Lev dropper
    WTB Vigo saddle
    70mm Haven stem
    750mm Havoc bars
    ODI Rogues

    I'm 6' tall, I have absolutely no doubts after today that for my terrain and riding desires a Medium was the way to go. Although, my KS is right at the minimum insertion line. Also, I normally ride Specialized LoPro2 pedals, the Saints have a bigger platform and I like them better.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dscn7471.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dscn7473.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dscn7474.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dscn7475.jpg  

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dscn7458.jpg  


  64. #164
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    Glad to hear that you made the right decision on the frame size! Looks great.

  65. #165
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    Sweet Optimus! That build is looking very clean. So its a SOMO shredder and did you climb up Natty? Bring it up to Ptown for some Dells fun.
    SHITBIRD

  66. #166
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    No National today helimech, I wanted to get a good feel for the handling before I go up for a serious thrashing. I did though take it on Corona de Loma and Beverly Canyon, which both have some fairly fast and chunky descents, not to mention some challenging climbs. Didn't take long though to get comfortable on it and really let it rip. Probably National next weekend, maybe the following weekend I can make it up your way, on the 10th.

  67. #167
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    Optimus, looks great, very nice, solid build, even with a dropper post 2.5lbs lighter than mine. When you get out with some riding buddies and get to snap some pics, don't forget to post them up, especially curious to see a side shot of you on the bike - still can't picture someone only 2.25" shorter than me on a Medium and not Large.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  68. #168
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    LyNx, I shot some video today, as soon as I get that edited I'll post it up.

  69. #169
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    I apologize for the crappy quality, this came from a 4 megapixel camera from back when 4 megapixel was top of the line. Can you even get 4 meg anymore?

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bkuMAt3HfO0?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  70. #170
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    Looks great Optimus!
    That's a 5" Lev yes? Looks proportional to me. Nice to know you could run a 6" dropper if/when they come available

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Just finished shortening the hoses, back was a breeze, front was a real pita. Going out to wrap my chain stay, maiden voyage in the morning.

    Banshee peoples- very nice quality. Appearance and finish are excellent, welds are very nice, all mechanical features smooth and free, trouble free assembly. This is my second Banshee frame, and I am very pleased to this point.
    tip:

    Put some clear tape to protect the swingarm where cables/hoses go over/near the top pivot point, most of cable rub happens there.

  72. #172
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    There is actually a secret cable guide in that area!

    see below.... you can run a ziptie around the swingarm vert support, run it just above the gusset on the backside, which keeps it in place. The ziptie can't slide upwards, since the support gets wider....

    One of the things I love about the prime is the clean full length cables (no sharp bends!) and the ability to run a good fender. Ive got this simple DIY one that goes all the way up from the BB, and still clears a 2.4 tire packed with mud.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-primezip.jpg  


  73. #173
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    In the 8 months I've had mine I can't say as I've noticed any actual abrasion to the frame from cable rub and I've been riding it in some pretty nasty conditions, probably about 700-800 miles so far on mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    tip:

    Put some clear tape to protect the swingarm where cables/hoses go over/near the top pivot point, most of cable rub happens there.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    In the 8 months I've had mine I can't say as I've noticed any actual abrasion to the frame from cable rub and I've been riding it in some pretty nasty conditions, probably about 700-800 miles so far on mine.
    Might have some clear coat missing there then

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    No National today helimech, I wanted to get a good feel for the handling before I go up for a serious thrashing. I did though take it on Corona de Loma and Beverly Canyon, which both have some fairly fast and chunky descents, not to mention some challenging climbs. Didn't take long though to get comfortable on it and really let it rip. Probably National next weekend, maybe the following weekend I can make it up your way, on the 10th.
    I'll note the 10th in my calendar. But, there is talk of a goatcamp romp that sat. You should try the prime on on this romp . Will keep ya posted. I want my V2 now .
    SHITBIRD

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    There is actually a secret cable guide in that area!

    see below.... you can run a ziptie around the swingarm vert support, run it just above the gusset on the backside, which keeps it in place. The ziptie can't slide upwards, since the support gets wider....
    That's pretty much what I did...except I put my ziptie below the horizontal support (on the vertical still tho), and added another small looping ziptie that contains the brake/ der. cable with some range of motion added


  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by helimech View Post
    I'll note the 10th in my calendar. But, there is talk of a goatcamp romp that sat. You should try the prime on on this romp . Will keep ya posted. I want my V2 now .
    If you're meaning Goat Camp in the White Tanks, I had my a$$ handed to me big time there about 2 years ago. I'll have a nice crease in my left quad forever where the muscle will never grow back right. Went OTB over a drop and onto some rocks, bad. Walked and coasted down, but took a while to heal. Yeah, maybe.

  78. #178
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    I did that last night, on a feature I've ridden dozens of times, if not hundreds. Sometimes you get stupid, I guess. I was just taking the dog out for a quick lap on the mountain across the street, so was still in street clothes. Landing on your knee without pads when you've gotten used to wearing them is painful. My knee is pretty stiff and swollen, and I jacked my shoulder up a bit, although I didn't actually separate it.

  79. #179
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    LyNx, here is the side shot that you requested. I had my wife snap it quick out front as I was putting my gear away from a ride yesterday morning.

    Speaking of riding yesterday morning, I've been out on the Prime twice, and I've taken it of coarse to places that I ride regularly to get a feel for it. I know that you all said that the Prime climbs great, but I am still shocked by how well it actually does. You would think that with the hta, sta, and the fact that this bike is light in the front, that it would be tough to control on the ups. I find that it takes very little effort to keep the front down, and as long as I've got legs, it'll dig in and claw its way up. It climbs substantially better than my Paradox, and I think that the Paradox climbs great. Downhill, oh boy!! This bike comfortably goes WAY too fast through soccer ball sized chunk, does 2 ft drops like they're not even there, and inspires huge confidence that it WILL get you through whatever lies ahead. One thing that I find kind of ironic, when you're just pedaling down the trail, you have no indication that you're on a monster.

  80. #180
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    Oops, forgot to attach the pic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dscn7497.jpg  


  81. #181
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    Glad to hear you're loving the Prime and finding out exactly what I did in comparison to the Paradox. Our proportions look quite similar, but I could never ride a bike that small, might squeeze on a L, but no way a Medium. Looking at your pic your back is very rounded and not flat, something I've found I do if I'm on a too small bike and feel cramped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    LyNx, here is the side shot that you requested. I had my wife snap it quick out front as I was putting my gear away from a ride yesterday morning.

    Speaking of riding yesterday morning, I've been out on the Prime twice, and I've taken it of coarse to places that I ride regularly to get a feel for it. I know that you all said that the Prime climbs great, but I am still shocked by how well it actually does. You would think that with the hta, sta, and the fact that this bike is light in the front, that it would be tough to control on the ups. I find that it takes very little effort to keep the front down, and as long as I've got legs, it'll dig in and claw its way up. It climbs substantially better than my Paradox, and I think that the Paradox climbs great. Downhill, oh boy!! This bike comfortably goes WAY too fast through soccer ball sized chunk, does 2 ft drops like they're not even there, and inspires huge confidence that it WILL get you through whatever lies ahead. One thing that I find kind of ironic, when you're just pedaling down the trail, you have no indication that you're on a monster.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Looking at your pic your back is very rounded and not flat, something I've found I do if I'm on a too small bike and feel cramped.
    I've got pics and camelbakless vids somewhere on my L Firebird, L Paradox, and L El Mariachi all with the same rounded back. I think it's just me. If I get too stretched out, my neck gets really sore and I get killer headaches.

  83. #183
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    Yeah, I think your reach looks about spot-on for this type of bike.

  84. #184
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    On average my bikes are 8cm shorter in reach than they were in the 90's (not to date myself ). Trails have also gotten steeper and more technical and my priorities have changed- but the rides have only gotten longer


    It's partially a compromise, smaller bikes generally handle better. Traditional "road" rules of fit prioritize pedaling efficiency over handling. Lots of riders do big climbs and long rides on smaller fitting bikes, it just requires more core strength since you can't just "lean on the bars and pedal".

    Optimus, your fit looks great to me.
    I actually feel that my medium proto is just a bit longer than I would like, I offered that feedback to Keith and I am pleased to see the production frames are slightly tighter fitting.

    Also of interest... my med. canfield yelli screamy was listed as a 23.75" TT, but actually felt smaller than the med. prime. Numbers don't tell the whole story!

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Also of interest... my med. canfield yelli screamy was listed as a 23.75" TT, but actually felt smaller than the med. prime. Numbers don't tell the whole story!
    I've noticed the same thing with mine, both larges. ETT is 0.5" longer on my Yelli.

  86. #186
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    Yeah, my Prime "feels" good. Interesting about numbers, you guys know that I analyzed the crap out of this frame size. My math indicated that a 50mm stem on my Prime should provide a cockpit very close to my Paradox with a 70mm. I put the Prime together with a 50mm, got to the end of the driveway, went right back into the garage and put the 70mm from my Paradox on it, perfect.

  87. #187
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    Leafy fall goodness!



  88. #188
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    A non-black bike from you just looks odd.

    We've had a great week of consistently tacky trails, and I've been making the most of it while it lasts.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    LyNx, here is the side shot that you requested. I had my wife snap it quick out front as I was putting my gear away from a ride yesterday morning.

    Speaking of riding yesterday morning, I've been out on the Prime twice, and I've taken it of coarse to places that I ride regularly to get a feel for it. I know that you all said that the Prime climbs great, but I am still shocked by how well it actually does. You would think that with the hta, sta, and the fact that this bike is light in the front, that it would be tough to control on the ups. I find that it takes very little effort to keep the front down, and as long as I've got legs, it'll dig in and claw its way up. It climbs substantially better than my Paradox, and I think that the Paradox climbs great. Downhill, oh boy!! This bike comfortably goes WAY too fast through soccer ball sized chunk, does 2 ft drops like they're not even there, and inspires huge confidence that it WILL get you through whatever lies ahead. One thing that I find kind of ironic, when you're just pedaling down the trail, you have no indication that you're on a monster.
    So... weekend ride reports? I assume you didn't waste the weekend on a bunch of household chores. JNC?

  90. #190
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    I have had several rides in the slackest setting at this point, and decided to try the steepest for a couple rides this weekend. It definitely feels like a different bike in the steepest setting...more xc/trail-ish than the more trail/AM orientation. I guess if I was going to use it more for xc riding it would be ok...but still a heavy xc bike. I am hoping to get out again today and try the middle setting, but suspect I will likely leave it in the slackest for the majority of my riding.

    I am enjoying the bike thus far...the fit is spot on for me! I have to admit I am pretty underwhelmed by the fox CTD shock. It just seems a bit more harsh than the pushed Monarch on the Sultan. I can't keep the thought of adding an Avalanche Chubie out of my head...I may just have to splurge to find true nirvana


  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I have had several rides in the slackest setting at this point, and decided to try the steepest for a couple rides this weekend. It definitely feels like a different bike in the steepest setting...more xc/trail-ish than the more trail/AM orientation. I guess if I was going to use it more for xc riding it would be ok...but still a heavy xc bike. I am hoping to get out again today and try the middle setting, but suspect I will likely leave it in the slackest for the majority of my riding.

    I am enjoying the bike thus far...the fit is spot on for me! I have to admit I am pretty underwhelmed by the fox CTD shock. It just seems a bit more harsh than the pushed Monarch on the Sultan. I can't keep the thought of adding an Avalanche Chubie out of my head...I may just have to splurge to find true nirvana
    My frame is getting shipped... i'm thinking of Vivid Air... mmm...

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I am pretty underwhelmed by the fox CTD shock.
    CTD? Cheaper Than Dirt?

    Glad to hear you aren't too cramped.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  93. #193
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    After a minor saddle adjustment, it is the identical setup to my HT Stickle. In fact, it truly rides like the FS version of such! Enjoying the fall flow!


  94. #194
    live long and huck
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    So... weekend ride reports?
    Went out to do some climbing Saturday morning, felt kind of strung out from a long work week, didn't climb particularly well. Found one of my favorite close to home drops to bomb, did pretty good. Went back out Saturday night to try out my new lights, rode extremely well, ripped down another favorite at 10:30 at night in the same exact time as my best ever run in the day light. I really do feel that the Prime is a superb climber, especially for being 33 lbs, but every time that I point it down hill it simply amazes me. It easily handles all of the chunk and drops and turns that I have balls enough to throw it into. I like it full slack, it's fast and stable and reassuring. I'm going to get hurt, I just know it.

    This is my Saturday morning downhill. I think you guys have seen this trail, but never from my Prime, drops 235 ft in .3 miles.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Pt6FIhpRZfM?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Also of interest... my med. canfield yelli screamy was listed as a 23.75" TT, but actually felt smaller than the med. prime. Numbers don't tell the whole story!
    I couldn't figure out why the eff. TT on the Prime looked so short until I saw the eff. seat angle of 75deg~76deg. Banshee must be measuring the angle from BB to the centre of the top of the real seat tube. Canfield's Yelli, on the other hand, the "effective"(virtual?) seat angle is taken from the hypothetical position of where the saddle would be. Measuring a Yelli the way Banshee does it for the Prime gives, on a medium Yelli, a seat angle of 75.4deg and an ETT of 575mm/22.7in... which is indeed just a teeny bit shorter than a Prime in a medium...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-02-ys-medium-geo.jpg  


  96. #196
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    We measure the effective top tube length and seat angle the officially recognised way.

    So ETT is top dead center of the headtube horizontally to the center of the seatpost at that height.

    Seat Angle is the angle between the horizontal plane and the line between the BB and the center point of seatpost horizontal to top dead center of head tube (ETT line).
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  97. #197
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    Anyone have/looking to sell a Butcher tire or a pair? If so, PM me!

    Thanks

  98. #198
    Cassoulet forever !
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    We measure the effective top tube length and seat angle the officially recognised way.

    So ETT is top dead center of the headtube horizontally to the center of the seatpost at that height.

    Seat Angle is the angle between the horizontal plane and the line between the BB and the center point of seatpost horizontal to top dead center of head tube (ETT line).

    And all this discussion is another point proving that ETT is a useless value to indicate fit with the modern (bent and offset) seatubes.

    Reach and Stack are the value that matters !
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

  99. #199
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    Hey Prime owners, I'd love to see pics of your homebrew mudguards for some inspiration.

  100. #200
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    Any more new builds floating out there in the wild? Seems like mine will be a few more months away need some pics to keep me going!

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