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  1. #1701
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    I agree also that what @builttoride posted is confusing.

    My understanding is that LSC deals with the small chatter not the HSC.

    Because if I had my shock, a CCDBaCS, set up the way that he is suggesting it would ride like shit and not soak up the small chatter and deal with the big hits. I believe it would do the complete opposite. (I know this because I tried it out when going through my set up process.)

    I'm not trying to call @builttoride out but maybe the way he's explaining things isn't very clear or being misinterpreted.

  2. #1702
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    I forgot about this thread on NSMB.com.
    There's a good discussion about the CC Inline on a pre-production Prime.

    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=162699
    Cane Creek Double Barrel Tuning Chat

  3. #1703
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    OK, maybe I didn't explain it very well, as it does depend on the speed you are travelling at, and the size of the roots you are hitting.

    But if you are going fast enough and roots are big enough, then they will cause a high speed compression input to your shock which will engauge the HSC circuit.

    My understanding of the Cane Creek system is that it's not to do with how deep in your travel you are, but purely related to the speed of input. So it doesn't need a big landing or anything to engage HSC, a short sharp input will also enguage it.

    Think of it this way, does your shock still sometimes compress smoothly when your climb switch is on on a climb when you hit a square edge hit? (mine does) Because if it does, then that is the HSC citcuit being actuated by the speed of input that bipasses the LSC circuit.
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  4. #1704
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    Great thank You - start to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    I forgot about this thread on NSMB.com.
    There's a good discussion about the CC Inline on a pre-production Prime.

    Cane Creek Double Barrel Tuning Chat - North Shore Mountain Biking Forums
    Cane Creek Double Barrel Tuning Chat
    Well, terrain i'm reffering to if fast, not descending a lot. But it's nasty witsh small obstacles (many many roots, time to time rocks, and clumps of grass) close to each other.
    I ride over them and all this shaking and bumping starts - i wish my suspension was working instead me.

    Shock works max in 60% of it's travel but it repeats compression very fast one after another - is that HSC ? (not deep dive but many quick actions?)

    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    OK, maybe I didn't explain it very well, as it does depend on the speed you are travelling at, and the size of the roots you are hitting.

    But if you are going fast enough and roots are big enough, then they will cause a high speed compression input to your shock which will engauge the HSC circuit.

    My understanding of the Cane Creek system is that it's not to do with how deep in your travel you are, but purely related to the speed of input. So it doesn't need a big landing or anything to engage HSC, a short sharp input will also enguage it.

    Think of it this way, does your shock still sometimes compress smoothly when your climb switch is on on a climb when you hit a square edge hit? (mine does) Because if it does, then that is the HSC citcuit being actuated by the speed of input that bipasses the LSC circuit.

  5. #1705
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    HSC can be activated in first 10% of shock travel with a high velocity compression, it is not related to depth of travel, just speed of compression.

    Likewise, if the shock is slowly compressed to bottom out, the HSC will never activate, as the circuit will never open.
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  6. #1706
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    @JACKL, I know you asked and got great info from the Washington board but if you have any questions about these two areas feel free to PM me or ask me here or on the other thread for info. I definitely think you'll get more bang for your buck if you stay around the Seattle area for riding when you visit.
    Thanks R/E. I did get to experience a few of the awesome trails around Seattle. I didn't ride Predator but did stop and watch several folks ride down the waterfall on my way up the mountain. The trip definitely opened my eyes to what real AM riding is, and the skills I'll need to work on for my next trip. I'm hoping to do a full week up there next September. I was glad I brought my Prime as I didn't need to worry about the bike being up to the task!

  7. #1707
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    So has anyone got their hands on a 2016 Prime yet,your thoughts on the bike?I just placed an order for a large and was wondering if anyone else has one built.

  8. #1708
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideonjon View Post
    So has anyone got their hands on a 2016 Prime yet,your thoughts on the bike?I just placed an order for a large and was wondering if anyone else has one built.
    I've had mine for a week or two now.

    2016 Banshee Prime (Large)
    2016 Fox Float X2
    2016 Rockshox Pike 140
    Ibis 941 Wheelset
    Sram X0 1x11 system
    Rockshox Reverb Stealth

    2017 Nicolai G13
    2017 Trek Fuel EX 9.9
    2016 Evil The Following

  9. #1709
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    That 2016 looks stunning. ^^

    Really enjoying my new to me 2013 version with the canecreek. Out of interest how do you find it in comparison to the Following given I notice you have one of those also?

  10. #1710
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    Nice 2016 Prime that is the same colour and size i ordered,how do you like it?What is the weight on it?

  11. #1711
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideonjon View Post
    Nice 2016 Prime that is the same colour and size i ordered,how do you like it?What is the weight on it?
    Obviously, it's not a light weight bike and I haven't actually got around to weighing it.
    My Evil Following is lighter and quicker steering and far more expensive... BUT, I actually prefer to ride the Prime. The Prime will ride up just about anything at a comfortable pace, as long as you're not trying to beat a XC bike to the top. It pedals surprisingly well too. Downhill it feels very stable and very safe. Get your line wrong through a rock garden or get into some other tense trail situation, this bike will save your backside every time.
    I have owned a 2013 Prime, so was fairly confident about what I was buying with the 2016 Prime. I run a slightly shorter stem on the 16, and the 16 also feels slightly slacker in the front end. Combined with a Magic Mary on the front... and you feel unstoppable.
    2017 Nicolai G13
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    2016 Evil The Following

  12. #1712
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    Quote Originally Posted by russmu66 View Post
    Obviously, it's not a light weight bike and I haven't actually got around to weighing it.
    My Evil Following is lighter and quicker steering and far more expensive... BUT, I actually prefer to ride the Prime. The Prime will ride up just about anything at a comfortable pace, as long as you're not trying to beat a XC bike to the top. It pedals surprisingly well too. Downhill it feels very stable and very safe. Get your line wrong through a rock garden or get into some other tense trail situation, this bike will save your backside every time.
    I have owned a 2013 Prime, so was fairly confident about what I was buying with the 2016 Prime. I run a slightly shorter stem on the 16, and the 16 also feels slightly slacker in the front end. Combined with a Magic Mary on the front... and you feel unstoppable.
    The bike looks killer. As a former Prime owner and former Following owner, I echo your statements. The Prime is a very capable and comfortable bike to ride.

  13. #1713
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    Quote Originally Posted by russmu66 View Post
    Obviously, it's not a light weight bike and I haven't actually got around to weighing it.
    My Evil Following is lighter and quicker steering and far more expensive... BUT, I actually prefer to ride the Prime. The Prime will ride up just about anything at a comfortable pace, as long as you're not trying to beat a XC bike to the top. It pedals surprisingly well too. Downhill it feels very stable and very safe. Get your line wrong through a rock garden or get into some other tense trail situation, this bike will save your backside every time.
    I have owned a 2013 Prime, so was fairly confident about what I was buying with the 2016 Prime. I run a slightly shorter stem on the 16, and the 16 also feels slightly slacker in the front end. Combined with a Magic Mary on the front... and you feel unstoppable.
    Great, thanks. Quite tempted by a magic mary as a change for the current butcher as the winter weather sets in here in the UK.

  14. #1714
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    I've still been out getting it while the gettings good!

    SQUAMISH

    I'm WAY off line on this feature. But, as was said previously, as long as you have faith and point it you generally can ride out anything on the Prime!
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-pa020032.jpg

    More rock.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-boney-elbows-pano.jpg

    This is on In N Out Burger in Squamish. This rock line has been in a lot of videos from this summer. It is huge! There are so many lines and none of them are all that mellow. The "easiest" line has a lot of off-camber sections.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-pa020068.jpg

    There was grip for miles even though it was slightly damp.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-pa020093.jpg

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-pa020104.jpg

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-pa020115.jpg

    WHISTLER

    A view from a new trail that's being built on the West side of the valley in Whistler. It will eventually descend from the alpine that can be accessed from another trail that is a climbing specific trail that is currently being built.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-pa040038.jpg

    I couldn't resist a #selfie! The bugs were outrageously bad! Hence the head wrap.
    I'd been bushwacking uphill for almost a kilometer to find a trail in the vicinity. I had just climbed up the new climbing trail to the end of the built section. I bumped into the builders and they gave me a few landmarks to look out for. I had missed one of them so my hike was a bit longer than anticipated!
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-20151006_141312.jpg

    I found the trail so I took a moment to take a pic.
    Whistler Mountain is in the background.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-20151006_144509.jpg


    I've been riding the Magic Mary on the front for a while now in the TrailStar compound and have been very impressed with it.
    When I was riding in Squamish it was quite damp/slick in the woods. At the end of the ride I was seriously impressed with the MM's grip! I did a lot of creeping into steep lines and the tire never let me down in grip/control. Both on damp rock and on slick roots and dirt.

    As I've said before I'm very happy with the Prime. It is a great all rounder. It climbs well and descends great! It also sends it very well!
    There is one niggle that I have and that is the rear suspension in certain situations. I bought this frame with my eyes open and fully aware of the quirks with this suspension layout.
    But it still irks me at times. The firming up when getting on the rear brake while descending. Nothing like being deflected off line because you're slowing down and the rear end firms up when you don't need it to.
    Also, when climbing the pause in the pedal stroke when hooking up a square bump is annoying at times. I actually had a substantial wipe out climbing uphill this summer! The pedals stopped dead in a crux move when I was putting the power down. I smashed my knee into the bars because a foot flew off the pedal. Then proceeded to fall over into rocks onto my elbow. To say the least, I was cursing the KS suspension design as I was rolling around on the ground in the rocks in agony!

    As I said, I was fully aware of the suspension quirks buying this frame but that doesn't mean I can't get upset about it on the rare occasions that it spanks me!
    Overall I'm still happy with my Prime. And, I'm seriously considering the new updated frame for a few reasons:

    Colour - I didn't get the colour I wanted because the only XL frame that was available was the raw at the time of my purchase. I wanted/want the black frame colour.

    Travel - 135mm compared to 130mm. Yeah, yeah 5mm but, c'mon, extra travel!

    Stealth Routing - 9Point8 has a 180mm and 200mm dropper in the works and I SERIOUSLY WANT! I'm 6'6" and the LEV 150mm dropper works but it isn't at all close to perfect in drop length.
    Last edited by RideEverything; 10-17-2015 at 11:20 PM.

  15. #1715
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    Hi!
    I've ordered a 2016 Prime frame. Does anyone know it it comes with a seat post clamp?

  16. #1716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    Hi!
    I've ordered a 2016 Prime frame. Does anyone know it it comes with a seat post clamp?
    Seatpost clamp is included
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  17. #1717
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    Jay and Keith at Banshee are a delight to speak/deal with. I will have no problem recommending a Banshee to anyone. Got my XL 16' Prime a couple of hours ago, and went straight out to my shed and put it together.
    Need to cut the steerer, and I need a part for my reverb, so no dropper atm. (Doing a custom 150mm 30.9 post)

    I must say; the frame is built like a tank! I love it!
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-prime_1.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-prime_2.jpg  

    Last edited by Tarjei Hofset; 10-27-2015 at 05:35 PM.
    Høkk, for faen!

  18. #1718
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    Looking good!
    I love the nod to the Homers with the bike on the couch photo!

    And, I'm jealous of the 36 on your build. My 34 CTD isn't cutting it anymore.

  19. #1719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    Jay and Keith at Banshee are a delight to speak/deal with. I will have no problem recommending a Banshee to anyone. Got my XL 16' Prime a couple of hours ago, and went straight out to my shed and put it together.
    Need to cut the steerer, and I need a part for my reverb, so no dropper atm. (Doing a custom 150mm 30.9 post)

    I must say; the frame is built like a tank! I love it!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That color is just sick.
    See You have custom build.
    Wull You share some more details?

  20. #1720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek
    *pic*
    That color is just sick.
    See You have custom build.
    Wull You share some more details?
    Yeah, sure.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-12142554_1073264352692284_1681466088_n.jpg

    -XL frame with both regular and 650b dropouts (lets me run 29+ tyres)
    -DH940C carbon rims (from XMCarbonspeed) laced to DT 350 hubs with DT Revo/Comp spokes. The rims have 4.5mm hookless walls, and weigh in at around 550g each. Should take a beating.
    -X01 Cassette, XX1 mech, X1 trigger and X1 chain
    -X0 crank with a wolftooth 32T DM chainring.
    -Reverb Stealth 150/430mm seatpost(not pictured)
    -Charge Scoop Pro saddle (not pictured)
    -XTR M9000 race brake levers, with Saint M820 calippers.
    -Lizardskins DSP grips
    Sixc 35 handlebar and Turbine 50mm stem.
    -CCDBACS Shock
    -Fox 36 RC2 fork
    -Works Components Angle headset (-1 deg)


    I was a bit hesitant about carbon rims at first, but seeing these rims, made me reconsider. They have 50% wider hookless walls compared to the new 38mm LB Wide rims. Super easy to build and to get the spoke tension high enough. Also, Peter at XMCarbonspeed has been a pleasure to deal with. Can recommend.

    Rockshox doesn't make the Reverb stealth in 30.9 with 150mm drop now, but they did a limited batch when the stealth first came out. I got a hold of a 34.9 post with 150mm drop, and managed to source a lower/outer tube from the 30.9/150 post. Quick rebuild and I have a reverb that fits.

    I'm a fan of clean handlebars, but with Sram gearing and Shimano brakes, I would end up with a crowded handlebar really quick. Made an adapter out of an old seatpost to mount the Sram trigger to my M9000 brakes.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-bottematch_1.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-bottematch_2.jpg
    Høkk, for faen!

  21. #1721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    -Works Components Angle headset (-1 deg)
    Why did you go with an angle set headset?
    I notice that you have the flip chips in the slackest setting and you are running the angle set at -1. Couldn't you achieve the same head angle by changing the flip chips in the dropouts without the angle set?

    I've been thinking of using an angle set head set to slack my Prime out more but It would make my wheelbase monsterous! Although, I wonder if I can counteract the wheelbase length by setting the flip chips to their steepest setting. But then I'd have to use an angle set that has at least two degrees of change to have it do anything.

  22. #1722
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Why did you go with an angle set headset?
    I notice that you have the flip chips in the slackest setting and you are running the angle set at -1. Couldn't you achieve the same head angle by changing the flip chips in the dropouts without the angle set?

    I've been thinking of using an angle set head set to slack my Prime out more but It would make my wheelbase monsterous! Although, I wonder if I can counteract the wheelbase length by setting the flip chips to their steepest setting. But then I'd have to use an angle set that has at least two degrees of change to have it do anything.
    Well, I don't think I can achieve the same head angle? Frame in slackest position plus 1 deg slacker head angle from the angle set.

    I have come to like slack bikes, and I'm not afraid of a long WB. In fact, I'm tempted to run the longer 650b dropouts at all times, even with non-plus tires.

    I think, in general, that people are too afraid of slack bikes. Look at the Nicolai Geometron. That will be the natural progression of trail bikes, I think.

    I see your last point, and it should work, but the bb height will be much higher than needed.

    BTW: I have my fork set at 160, which will give me an HA of almost excactly 65deg.
    Høkk, for faen!

  23. #1723
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    Oops, I misunderstood the direction you had the angle set positioned at. I thought you had made the bike steeper with the angle set not slacker. That was my confusion. Sorry.

    I'm not super concerned with a long wheelbase. It was more of a thought exercise in relation to flip chips and angle sets.

    65 degrees! That's quite slack... for a 29er!
    And, with your fork set at 160mm I feel personally that would be a slug of a bike to pedal uphill where I live and ride. All my climbing is quite steep and sustained. I'm not saying that I haven't pedalled similar long travel and slack HA bikes in the past uphill. It's just that I'm over struggling with a bike that has a front end that wants to wander at every moment. Granted I haven't been on a new generation enduro bike yet so things are probably better now.
    That set up you're running, though, would be sweet on all the downs here!

  24. #1724
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    Flip chips in the slack setting slacken the HTA by 1 degree to 67*, if he flipped them the other way around it would steepen it back to 68* and the -1 degree angleset would then bring it back to 67*

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Why did you go with an angle set headset?
    I notice that you have the flip chips in the slackest setting and you are running the angle set at -1. Couldn't you achieve the same head angle by changing the flip chips in the dropouts without the angle set?
    My math agrees with your math, that's some serious slack and long bike setup right there. If my math is correct your WB is around 50" with your current setup on an XL Don't know I'd like anything that slack for my riding and our trails head angle wise, but I'd sure appreciate the slacker STA as I find the 74* too steep for me and hard to fit a decent dropper with setback.
    Also at that slack, the Effective Reach should have been brought back to somewhere around 460-465mm as compared to stock 480mm, which for me at 6'2" would be perfect. Definitely waiting to hear your feedback once you've got some rides on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    Well, I don't think I can achieve the same head angle? Frame in slackest position plus 1 deg slacker head angle from the angle set.........................I see your last point, and it should work, but the bb height will be much higher than needed.

    BTW: I have my fork set at 160, which will give me an HA of almost excactly 65deg.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    This part was really interesting for me.
    Why haven't you go with full saint.
    Do you see any improvement with that mix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    Yeah, sure.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    -XTR M9000 race brake levers, with Saint M820 calippers.
    .

  26. #1726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    This part was really interesting for me.
    Why haven't you go with full saint.
    Do you see any improvement with that mix?
    The reason is simply that I don't like the progressive modulation on the servo wave brake levers. The Xtr m985 race and m9000 race has the piston mounted directly to the actual lever, which gives more linear modulation and more control.

    I chose the saint calipper, because well, I like powerful brakes.

    The compromise, running this setup, is less pad clearance and some flex in the lever body.

    For the sake of validation, I'll say that I have experience with formula rx/r1, shimano slx/xt/full saint and sram/avid juicy/elixir/guide.

    The combo I'm running now, is by far the best brakes I've tried.
    Høkk, for faen!

  27. #1727
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    If anyone is looking for a frame for their next build, I have just the Prime for you!!

    2014 Banshee Prime w/ CCDB Ti Spring Extra Dropouts - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

  28. #1728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    Jay and Keith at Banshee are a delight to speak/deal with. I will have no problem recommending a Banshee to anyone. Got my XL 16' Prime a couple of hours ago, and went straight out to my shed and put it together.
    Need to cut the steerer, and I need a part for my reverb, so no dropper atm. (Doing a custom 150mm 30.9 post)

    I must say; the frame is built like a tank! I love it!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow! So much for blending in. Dig the color.

  29. #1729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    The reason is simply that I don't like the progressive modulation on the servo wave brake levers. The Xtr m985 race and m9000 race has the piston mounted directly to the actual lever, which gives more linear modulation and more control.
    .
    Do You know if 9020 lever uses the same internal build as 9000 you mention?

  30. #1730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Do You know if 9020 lever uses the same internal build as 9000 you mention?
    It doesn't. 9020 has the servo wave function.
    Høkk, for faen!

  31. #1731
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    Hold on (forgive me to be slow)

    So 9000 has no servo and that's why it's more linear - so more depends on rider than lever itself (You control power by yourself than rely on servo) ?

    Me as actual owner of xt785, i'm curious - which way to go, seems like 785 has Servo and 9000 doesn't ?

  32. #1732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Hold on (forgive me to be slow)

    So 9000 has no servo and that's why it's more linear - so more depends on rider than lever itself (You control power by yourself than rely on servo) ?

    Me as actual owner of xt785, i'm curious - which way to go, seems like 785 has Servo and 9000 doesn't ?
    Well, the Servo Wave function in not an actual servo per se.
    If you look at a regular brake lever (the actual lever), it has two conection points. The swivel point, and the piston point. The distance between these will give you the leverage on the piston. The servo wave function moves the piston contact point through the lever "travel". At the start of the travel, the points are further from eachother to give more piston movement and hence, more pad movement. At one point, not too far in the travel, the piston point has moved towards the swivel point, creating higher leverage force on the piston and higher pad "pinch force".

    Look at the XTR M9000 or the M985 levers as the servo wave levers, but the piston point is fixed in the "high leverage force" position. This will give less pad movement, equal stopping power, and better modulation.

    I think almost all of shimano's "non-crap" brakes has the servo wave function, except m985 and m9000. That is, e.g. Deore, SLX, XT, m988, m9020
    Høkk, for faen!

  33. #1733
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    That explains a lot. Thanks for that.
    Still can't understand why in (non crapy) brakes like 9000 or 985 they resigned from servo and that in fact makes them better...
    Is that Your personal feeling (because that allow to control brake manually) or SH idea to remove SW in race hi-end models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post

    Look at the XTR M9000 or the M985 levers as the servo wave levers, but the piston point is fixed in the "high leverage force" position. This will give less pad movement, equal stopping power, and better modulation.

    I think almost all of shimano's "non-crap" brakes has the servo wave function, except m985 and m9000. That is, e.g. Deore, SLX, XT, m988, m9020

  34. #1734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    That explains a lot. Thanks for that.
    Still can't understand why in (non crapy) brakes like 9000 or 985 they resigned from servo and that in fact makes them better...
    Is that Your personal feeling (because that allow to control brake manually) or SH idea to remove SW in race hi-end models?
    It's only a weight issue, I believe.
    Høkk, for faen!

  35. #1735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    It's only a weight issue, I believe.
    Well. Seems to be more reasons.
    Digged a bit and it seems like some of DH racers (Gwinn or Peat) used XTR Race just because those non-servo levers provide better modulation/more control.

  36. #1736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Well. Seems to be more reasons.
    Digged a bit and it seems like some of DH racers (Gwinn or Peat) used XTR Race just because those non-servo levers provide better modulation/more control.
    Of course, I've mentioned that several times. Lets not go any furter off track.

    Put 29+ tires on My 16' Prime. Snug fit even with the 650b dropouts.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-prime_3s.jpg

    I've also done some more riding. This bike is awesome!
    Instagram Video 1
    Instagram Video 2
    Høkk, for faen!

  37. #1737
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    Installed new 810mm wide Fun Fatboy bars.
    Loving them.
    Even the cat thinks they are awesome.Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dsc_0031.jpg

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dsc_0034.jpg

  38. #1738
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    What tyres are you running?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    Put 29+ tires on My 16' Prime. Snug fit even with the 650b dropouts.
    Hum, how are you liking that bar, width and sweep etc? I ordered one of those up without checking specs carefully and found out that their flat/0 rise bar does not have the same amount of back or upsweep as the rest, felt amost straight, did not like it in the least, ended up selling it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Installed new 810mm wide Fun Fatboy bars.
    Loving them.
    Even the cat thinks they are awesome.Click image for larger version. 

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    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  39. #1739
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    What tyres are you running?
    Borrowed a set of Knards from my firend just to test the fit. Trying to get a hold of the Innova Transformers in Norway.
    Høkk, for faen!

  40. #1740
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    Must be a different bar as that one is 5deg I think.
    Seems to have 2 positions marked on it. I have it set with the most backsweep and least upsweep.. Happy with it so far.

  41. #1741
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    Yeah, no, it does have 5 degree, but the others run 9 I think it is, HUGE difference if that's what you're accustomed to. Wanted a flat bar because most times I tend to run my stem flipped or some spacers to leave options for my fork, so gave it a go. Did buy another flat from KORE, it has a nice 9 degree back/upsweep, but too heavy, need to find a lighter option that doesn't cost more than my normal bar budget of <$60 US.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Must be a different bar as that one is 5deg I think.
    Seems to have 2 positions marked on it. I have it set with the most backsweep and last upsweep.. Happy with it so far.
    The folding bead 120 TPI or 60 TPI? Wouldn't want either one down here with our rocks, not sure what your trails are like where you are in Norway, but I've sen some vids of some nice chunky stuff, so expect you'd be looking for some beefier casings. Not sure when they'll be readily available, but I tested the CST BFT 29+ it's an awesome tyre, great grip and great price. Mine was a wire bead, but it's also sposed to come in folding which would drop the weight a 100g or so I'd guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarjei Hofset View Post
    Borrowed a set of Knards from my firend just to test the fit. Trying to get a hold of the Innova Transformers in Norway.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  42. #1742
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    Have ridden that bar a few more times now.
    So much more confidence and control.
    Only drama with the 810 width is when you have narrow gaps between trees.
    The rest of the time it is awesome.

    Highly recommended.

  43. #1743
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    Yeah 810mm for me is just a tad too wide, 785mm seems to work much better - gives good control and leverage, but still let's you through most tight gaps.
    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Have ridden that bar a few more times now.
    So much more confidence and control.
    Only drama with the 810 width is when you have narrow gaps between trees.
    The rest of the time it is awesome.

    Highly recommended.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  44. #1744
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    The folding bead 120 TPI or 60 TPI? Wouldn't want either one down here with our rocks, not sure what your trails are like where you are in Norway, but I've sen some vids of some nice chunky stuff, so expect you'd be looking for some beefier casings. Not sure when they'll be readily available, but I tested the CST BFT 29+ it's an awesome tyre, great grip and great price. Mine was a wire bead, but it's also sposed to come in folding which would drop the weight a 100g or so I'd guess.
    It's the 27TPI folding bead, I believe. Definetly not doing the trick for me. Will switch back to Magic Mary before the next ride. I'll keep an eye out for the tyre you're talking about.
    Høkk, for faen!

  45. #1745
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    The Prime may be a great bike but it's no match for the slick roots that are out in full force at this time of year!
    I'm still out getting after it. But the snow line is starting to creep down the mountains now. I'm always a little bit sad when I finally put my bike away for the season but I've got my fingers crossed for a good snow year this year! I really hope it snows!


  46. #1746
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    Still ticking.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  47. #1747
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    Awesome Enel. Mine has a few cosmetic battle wounds from your neck of the woods, haven't been up there in a couple years, I'll have to put it on my list.

  48. #1748
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    You guys are gonna hate me, but I never really liked my Prime for the type of riding I do (XC type riding, totally not worthy of the Prime capabilities). I bought it because it was beefy and I wanted something to handle my weight, the trails I ride never really "needed" the travel.

    Well, I had my first ride on my new Tallboy today and I gotta say I like it a lot more than the Prime. Corners better, gets air better (small air...small air!!), pops the front end better, pedals up hill better. The Prime always felt big and tankish...the Tallboy feels much more appropriate for my type of trails.

  49. #1749
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    You guys are gonna hate me, but I never really liked my Prime for the type of riding I do (XC type riding, totally not worthy of the Prime capabilities). I bought it because it was beefy and I wanted something to handle my weight, the trails I ride never really "needed" the travel.

    Well, I had my first ride on my new Tallboy today and I gotta say I like it a lot more than the Prime. Corners better, gets air better (small air...small air!!), pops the front end better, pedals up hill better. The Prime always felt big and tankish...the Tallboy feels much more appropriate for my type of trails.
    I've got a Phantom on the way.

  50. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    You guys are gonna hate me, but I never really liked my Prime for the type of riding I do (XC type riding, totally not worthy of the Prime capabilities). I bought it because it was beefy and I wanted something to handle my weight, the trails I ride never really "needed" the travel.

    Well, I had my first ride on my new Tallboy today and I gotta say I like it a lot more than the Prime. Corners better, gets air better (small air...small air!!), pops the front end better, pedals up hill better. The Prime always felt big and tankish...the Tallboy feels much more appropriate for my type of trails.
    Definitely 100% chalk and cheese bikes.
    Absolutely not comparable bikes at all.

  51. #1751
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    I think pretty much everyone told you that when you were looking into buying one and told you to get the Phantom, no surprises there Not sure what you expected, can't compare a 100/120mm travel XC/Trail bike to a 130/140mm travel Trail/AM bike

    Even when I hop on my Prime I'm always amazed at the ride differences, Prime just feels like a big ol Cadillac, nice and squishy, plows through anything, will tackle just about anything without trouble, Phantom can handle all my trails have, but with more feedback from it, likes to pop and jump easy as pie whereas the Prime takes some effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    You guys are gonna hate me, but I never really liked my Prime for the type of riding I do (XC type riding, totally not worthy of the Prime capabilities). I bought it because it was beefy and I wanted something to handle my weight, the trails I ride never really "needed" the travel.

    Well, I had my first ride on my new Tallboy today and I gotta say I like it a lot more than the Prime. Corners better, gets air better (small air...small air!!), pops the front end better, pedals up hill better. The Prime always felt big and tankish...the Tallboy feels much more appropriate for my type of trails.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  52. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I think pretty much everyone told you that when you were looking into buying one and told you to get the Phantom, no surprises there Not sure what you expected, can't compare a 100/120mm travel XC/Trail bike to a 130/140mm travel Trail/AM bike

    Even when I hop on my Prime I'm always amazed at the ride differences, Prime just feels like a big ol Cadillac, nice and squishy, plows through anything, will tackle just about anything without trouble, Phantom can handle all my trails have, but with more feedback from it, likes to pop and jump easy as pie whereas the Prime takes some effort.
    I read a lot of great reviews on the Prime, and being my first FS 29er I didn't mind "over biking" a bit. Every review I read said it climbs well and was stiff. Every conversation I had with Keith was very positive towards the Prime, he even suggested the Prime over the Phantom because of the frame stiffness. No one ever said the Prime was really going to be out of place riding XC.

    Well, live and learn. I had no idea what to expect from the Prime. But now I know. What is so misleading with a lot of reviews is that the terrain is soooo different. I am sure the new owner will love my old Prime, and I know I am very happy w/ the Tallboy.

  53. #1753
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    No one ever said the Prime was really going to be out of place riding XC. What is so misleading with a lot of reviews is that the terrain is soooo different. I am sure the new owner will love my old Prime, and I know I am very happy w/ the Tallboy.
    See js, there lies the difficulty in relying on others opinions. The more experience that you gain the better you will be able to interpret opinions and results. The first few bikes that I had I bought complete, took about 2 years of thrashing AZ chunk before I started to understand what I was looking for. I had a hunch that a Paradox would suit me well, bought a frame and did my first ground up build, exactly the way that I wanted it. That bike kicked so much chunky ass that I even sold my Pivot Firebird because I could out ride it on a darn 120mm hardtail. As soon as Banshee started protoytping the Prime I knew that it was for me, I had money down one one probably 10 months before the first production unit shipped. Love my Prime, it's built heavy, I beat the shit out of it, it loves it, awesome bike. But you're right, not an XC machine. I'm getting a touch older and more frail, lol, and lately when I have been on the Paradox it has given me enough of a beating that it's taken a little fun out of it for me. So, I just sold it, stripped all of the perfect for me parts from it, and a Phantom is on the way. I intend to build it 120mm Pike, but light and fast as reasonable for AZ. I don't consider the Phantom "XC", but my "XC" trails aren't really very XC, they're just less AM. I'll have the Prime "tank", and the Phantom, um, lighter tank, lol. Phantom will be my 8th bike in 7 years, 3rd Banshee, the last 5 I've built.

  54. #1754
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    JH, I'm glad you found something you like, and there is nothing wrong with telling it like it is. Enjoy the new ride. Bikes are an individual thing and you gotta find one that works best for you.

    I feel quite the opposite about mine. What really surprised me about my Prime is how much I love it for XC riding. For me it just rips, especially on the fast / loose stuff. I run spacers in my CC inline / tokens in my Pike to keep the bike from going too far in the travel until I need it. I also run the high-speed rebound backed off pretty far for plenty of pop.

    The wheelbase is a bit long for tight twisty stuff, but that's about all I can complain about. I'm 6'2" with a large frame and upper body, so working this burly bike isn't at all taxing for me, but it could be for others.

  55. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    JH, I'm glad you found something you like, and there is nothing wrong with telling it like it is. Enjoy the new ride. Bikes are an individual thing and you gotta find one that works best for you.

    I feel quite the opposite about mine. What really surprised me about my Prime is how much I love it for XC riding. For me it just rips, especially on the fast / loose stuff. I run spacers in my CC inline / tokens in my Pike to keep the bike from going too far in the travel until I need it. I also run the high-speed rebound backed off pretty far for plenty of pop.

    The wheelbase is a bit long for tight twisty stuff, but that's about all I can complain about. I'm 6'2" with a large frame and upper body, so working this burly bike isn't at all taxing for me, but it could be for others.
    tbh I never though twice about a longer wheelbased long travel bike and how it rides on my local trails until I picked up a SS Karate Monkey. That brought back a lot of memories from my N9 days, but felt better suited for the type of trails I ride.

    I then concluded I wanted a bike that was a FS version of my Karate Monkey, but with gears. The only think I need to get sorted out now is the d@mn RS Pike and out of the saddle climbing. I know I am spoiled by the three other bikes I have, as they are all rigid, but it bobs soo freaking bad even when "locked out" that it is almost embarassing.

  56. #1756
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Well, I had my first ride on my new Tallboy today and I gotta say I like it a lot more than the Prime.
    As you know, after several seasons on Primes I recently ended up on a Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC. (Spitfire is my #1 bike for the more AM stuff).

    I've got about 5 rides in on the TBLT and had crashes on 2 of them. Not good odds... perhaps largely pilot error but I don't think this bike is not quite working for me. And maybe not surprising given it's 2-3d steeper than what I am used to.

    Although there's a lot of things I do like about it. Really hard to argue with a 5.2lb frame that's plenty stiff and has proven durability.

    I ended up on this after a bike theft/insurance deal, so I'm not horribly attached to it.

    Anyways JH, just goes to show the right bike is totally dependent on your terrain. It's not so surprising the Tallboy is a good fit for you.

  57. #1757
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    Man, if you've been riding a Monkey and enjoying it on your trails (I enjoy mine rigid too), then the Prime would definitely feel like way too much bike and a total slug on anything but super chunky climbs, heck the difference between the Phantom with 2.35/2.4" tyres vs the Monkey with 2.4/3" tyres is so different, Phantom feels like a Cadillac after coming off a ride or two on the Monkey.

    Glad you're liking the TB, but I don't think I could gel with one, as just like FM said, the geo is just not as confidence inspiring to me, too accustomed to Banshee geo, even run my Paradox with a 140mm fork.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    tbh I never though twice about a longer wheelbased long travel bike and how it rides on my local trails until I picked up a SS Karate Monkey. That brought back a lot of memories from my N9 days, but felt better suited for the type of trails I ride.

    I then concluded I wanted a bike that was a FS version of my Karate Monkey, but with gears. The only think I need to get sorted out now is the d@mn RS Pike and out of the saddle climbing. I know I am spoiled by the three other bikes I have, as they are all rigid, but it bobs soo freaking bad even when "locked out" that it is almost embarassing.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  58. #1758
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    Guys maybe 5 cents from old XC rider would be helpfull.

    So my adventrure started as usual - hardtail, than first FS (Giant Anthem 29) ....loosing weight of bike and rider and finally ....swallowed the Enduro addiction.
    Thanks to my frieds who showed me new trails (unfortunately i live in quite flat terrain) in mountains.
    We started to explore new paths and it appeared quickly that my skills and Anthem need an improvement.

    So tried to demo as many as possible, unfortunately here in Western Europe availability of such a days is like 5%.
    Made some dedicated 300km trips by car to have a chance to ride 20km on some borrowed bike - no customization, adjusting etc.
    This is how i tried XL Spec Enduro, L WFO, L,XL Prime and compared to my ANthem XL.

    And here comes the conclusion.

    Prime is definitely on Tankish side - the frame itself feels secure and heavier than Anthem. It's well made and can be adjusted in multiple ways (chips,wide tires).
    What was surprising is that is much more twisty (don't know better word) - just taking rapid turn is much easier, i feel much more secure before falling.
    Next is geometry - finally my low skills allow me to ride down very step descent with more confidence.
    Stability - now i know what does i mean.

    So how it's different from anthem
    Heavier - still managed to build it on light parts but be aware You now play with Enduro so ppick up dropper post instead carbo one
    Bit slower - when i mean it it's around 2-3km per hour - this is not noticeable since i'm not competing with XC fighters.
    XL doesn't allow me to take wheelie easily

    Why i havent chosen Phantom - well i love to jump, love to ride over big stuff and more susp forgive a lot.
    When my skills would improove maybe i'd go with more agressive geo and less mm of travel - for now i'm in my story

    A pic to proof that finally i'm done

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-20150722_1746081.jpg

  59. #1759
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Man, if you've been riding a Monkey and enjoying it on your trails (I enjoy mine rigid too), then the Prime would definitely feel like way too much bike and a total slug on anything but super chunky climbs.
    Like I said, the rigid KM was what really opened my eyes to the fact I was "over biked". I may try an angleset to see if it makes a difference.

  60. #1760
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    Hey I just received my Prime frame,large gunmetal.it was a warranty replacement so no shock.I'm looking for a Monarch Plus but not sure what tune I'm looking for,anyone know what tune it comes with for the Prime?
    Thanks,
    jon

  61. #1761
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    Jon
    As it was written here before Low tune was recommended (meaning L/L) but some riders bieng on >200LBS side use M/M.

    My Inline is going to be replaced and question to You all
    Which one would You choose if You had a free choice DBA CS XV or Monach Plus DebonA (i'm 180LBS)?

    Quote Originally Posted by rideonjon View Post
    Hey I just received my Prime frame,large gunmetal.it was a warranty replacement so no shock.I'm looking for a Monarch Plus but not sure what tune I'm looking for,anyone know what tune it comes with for the Prime?
    Thanks,
    jon

  62. #1762
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    Thank you,looks like i'm getting a n M/M tune.As i'm 210lbs geared up.
    cheers,
    jon

  63. #1763
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    Your welcome

    Anyone like to share:

    DBA CS XV or Monach Plus DebonA ?

    I do heva one more concern.

    Would like to change crankarms to 1x11 and need info which Q factor and Chainline are dedicated for Prime:
    Is that
    168mm and 51mm ?
    Last edited by Placek; 11-26-2015 at 03:31 AM.

  64. #1764
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    Anyone ??

  65. #1765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Anyone ??
    I do have monarch+DA on my prime and is working very good for my kind of ride.
    also have 168 mm xx1 cranks with original spider but I think chainline is 49mm.....but you can change it by using different spiderless chainrings.

  66. #1766
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    Filanny someone..
    Crucial for me was Q factor if that should be 158 or better 168mm.
    Chaunline can be customized afterwards by spacers.

  67. #1767
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    Q-factor needs to be 168mm for all our bikes. 158mm is for weenie XC bikes.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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    Banshee Blog

  68. #1768
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    Perfect.
    At least know which crank to choose.

  69. #1769
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    Guys
    I'm stucked with options of crankset.

    I'm just between NEXT and X01
    Can You advide which particular version of each is compatibile with Prime.
    Are those:

    RF Race Face Next SL Crank 175mm black | Crank 1 x 11-speed Shop
    X01 SRAM X01 Crankset 1x11-speed 32T GXP black | X01 Shop

    ?

  70. #1770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Guys
    I'm stucked with options of crankset.

    I'm just between NEXT and X01
    Can You advide which particular version of each is compatibile with Prime.
    Are those:

    RF Race Face Next SL Crank 175mm black | Crank 1 x 11-speed Shop
    X01 SRAM X01 Crankset 1x11-speed 32T GXP black | X01 Shop

    ?
    I prefer the Next SL's, higher quality cranks (I've seen several of the SRAM carbon cranks fail compared to one of the RF's even though the RF's are more common where I live), easy to modify to any standard and if your local shop is well equipped with the proper RF tool - easy and cheap to replace just the bearings of the bb without having to replace the whole works.

    ed. I run the Next on my Prime no problem.

  71. #1771
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    Agreed, raceface next all day long. The turbine cinch cranks are pretty much the same weight at the xx1 cranks BTW. I will probably go next or turbine cinch when I change crank,s but that might be awhile as my current turbines are strong many bbs and years later.

  72. #1772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Guys
    I'm stucked with options of crankset.

    I'm just between NEXT and X01
    Can You advide which particular version of each is compatibile with Prime.
    Are those:

    RF Race Face Next SL Crank 175mm black | Crank 1 x 11-speed Shop
    X01 SRAM X01 Crankset 1x11-speed 32T GXP black | X01 Shop

    ?
    Another vote for Raceface (not on a Prime, but a Phantom) The crank is rock solid, but there’s the huge benefit of being more or less future proof with the ability to change rings, BBs, etc. Its a crank that’s already been on 2 frames for me!

  73. #1773
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    Padrefan
    Your opinion is much apreciated.
    Can you just advise whcich ver of Next should be chosen as there are multiple depending on frmae manufacturer - suppose phanton and prime are same.

  74. #1774
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    B+ Prime

    Put these on last week, only ridden it once and it seems to be pretty good fun although I'm not sure if I prefer standard 29er wheels with some beefy tyres, hill billy grid on the front for reference. In the low setting which I suspect makes it a bit low but will faff around further if I stick with it.

    But... I can't fathom how to link from photobucket.

    This should take you through...

    http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...psbquuhynz.jpg

  75. #1775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Padrefan
    Your opinion is much apreciated.
    Can you just advise whcich ver of Next should be chosen as there are multiple depending on frmae manufacturer - suppose phanton and prime are same.
    You need to make sure that you get Next SL cranks that have “Cinch” in the name or description. There are older Race Face Next cranks hanging out in online stores especially that while, awesome, are NOT at all the same as the current Next cranks. As far as I know, there are only two basic versions of the new, Cinch Next cranks. One with a standard width, and one thats for fat bikes with a much wider spindle. You want the ‘standard,’ like shown here at Universal Cycles.

    Bottom Bracket can be a little more confusion, but Banshee using the good old threaded BB makes it easier. You need a Cinch BB for 68/73mm, BSA English Thread.

  76. #1776
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    Perfect.
    I think those fattie version confused, but now it's much clearer.
    Thx.

  77. #1777
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    I got this sexy beast tuned up and running for the season!

    I've been hardtailing it for the last month and a half. But, I think it's time for the full susser to come out and play.

    Cheers!


  78. #1778
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    Where you live and ride, The Prime is the perfect bike I'd expect. Have you given or thought of giving a set of 650B+ wheels and tyres a go in that thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    I got this sexy beast tuned up and running for the season!

    I've been hardtailing it for the last month and a half. But, I think it's time for the full susser to come out and play.

    Cheers!

    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  79. #1779
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    Shot this last Saturday down in Tucson, recently moved here. La Milagrosa Trail. This was the end of a 15 mile ride, 15 miles which were very much similar to this. I was exhausted, had horrible arm pump, just couldn't hold on and work the brakes any longer. I ended up walking a few features just because I was whooped.

    Some Milagrosa 3 Video - Pinkbike
    Low and slack.

  80. #1780
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Have you given or thought of giving a set of 650B+ wheels and tyres a go in that thing?
    It has crossed my mind. However, I feel that +tires are better suited to hardtails.
    I've had a short ride ride on a + hardtail and it was fun. But, I don't think the plus sized wheels are needed for a full susser.

    If I'm going to throw more money at the Prime I'm upgrading the fork and not getting plus wheels.
    Priorities, man!

  81. #1781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Shot this last Saturday down in Tucson, recently moved here. La Milagrosa Trail. This was the end of a 15 mile ride, 15 miles which were very much similar to this. I was exhausted, had horrible arm pump, just couldn't hold on and work the brakes any longer. I ended up walking a few features just because I was whooped.

    Some Milagrosa 3 Video - Pinkbike
    Fun looking trails!
    That is so different from where I ride. Everything looks so sharp, pointy and rock hard! (pun intended)

  82. #1782
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    Agree that for a Rigid or HT, PLUS is a no brainer, but, I guess I'm lucky enough to own a Rigid, HT and FS, had hubs already, so bought Asym i35s, spokes and built the wheels, but will certainly swap them into the Phantom to see how it goes. Already gave it one ride with current setup, but prefer just running normal 29er rubber I can trust and know, but when I get my new B+ tyres, I will give it another go for a few rides on different trails and terain.

    Was skeptical of the companies producing B+ bikes with only 2.8" tyres until I tried my Phantom with the 2.8" rear and 3.0" front and found the 3.0" front seemed a bit much, but was in truth excellent in the sand and very thick loose over hard conditions we have here now. Anything more than 2.8" I think then starts to become part of the suspension package and you have to then try to tune tyre pressure along with the suspension, so 2.8" gives you the extra grip and enough extra small bump compliance without causing too much extra you don't need.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    It has crossed my mind. However, I feel that +tires are better suited to hardtails.
    I've had a short ride ride on a + hardtail and it was fun. But, I don't think the plus sized wheels are needed for a full susser.

    If I'm going to throw more money at the Prime I'm upgrading the fork and not getting plus wheels.
    Priorities, man!

    Looks like my sort of ride Optimus, some day I will get out there to experience you rockfest
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  83. #1783
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    Getting after it.







    No plus wheels needed here.

  84. #1784
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    When is anything "really" needed these days? Most stuff we buy is because we want to, for what ever reason. Great looking feature BTW, expect rest of the trail is like that
    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Getting after it.



    No plus wheels needed here.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  85. #1785
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    When is anything "really" needed these days? Most stuff we buy is because we want to, for what ever reason. Great looking feature BTW, expect rest of the trail is like that
    I totally get that.
    My comment was supposed to be funny.

    I know I have very limited experience with plus bikes but from what I've heard from people in my region riding regularly on plus bikes the prognosis isn't great.
    Sure, Rocky Mountain just dropped a great video with Wade Simmons shredding The Shore on their new plus bike but that's marketing.

    I can totally get behind the hardtail plus movement. However, because I'm a heavy giant and all the issues with plus tires are in regards to shredding sidewalls I'll wait for a while longer before I throw any money towards a plus bike or wheelset.
    Guys I know that are half my size are shredding plus tires. If they're doing that I think the first corner I go through will have me riding on the rims!

    I love my Prime and it kills it on everything I ride. I don't need to experiment with a different wheel/tire size on this bike.

  86. #1786
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    I think that'll take care of aggressive tread and decent casings. I'm right smack in the weight range most stuff is designed for, so that's not a problem for me durability wise and I keep the wheels on the ground, mostly, but I do ride on/in a lot of coral and that makes a durable casing that can take some hard abrasions important to me.

    Yeah, any video of a pro "shredding" I know is an unreliable source, since they can edit out all the "incidents' that may occur which would not reflect favourably on the product or idea, like blown or cut tyres etc., and, well, they're Pros have can ride as neatly and smooth to help lessen any such effects. I do however think that the avg rider would not be pushing any harder that you see Wade in the film, actually if the avg rider could shred like that I think they'd be more than your avg rider and pretty damn stoked.

    You did see that Maxxis is releasing the DHR2 and DHF in PLUS right? As an interim until the new Maxxis rubber becomes available I picked up a set of Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.8"s in their Snake-Skin casing, so will see how they hold up to the coral. Weight to me was right where it should be for a 650B+ tyre with decent casing 900 & 920g, which in the ballpark of what I normally run in 29er tyres.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    I totally get that.
    My comment was supposed to be funny.

    I know I have very limited experience with plus bikes but from what I've heard from people in my region riding regularly on plus bikes the prognosis isn't great.
    Sure, Rocky Mountain just dropped a great video with Wade Simmons shredding The Shore on their new plus bike but that's marketing.

    I can totally get behind the hardtail plus movement. However, because I'm a heavy giant and all the issues with plus tires are in regards to shredding sidewalls I'll wait for a while longer before I throw any money towards a plus bike or wheelset.
    Guys I know that are half my size are shredding plus tires. If they're doing that I think the first corner I go through will have me riding on the rims!

    I love my Prime and it kills it on everything I ride. I don't need to experiment with a different wheel/tire size on this bike.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  87. #1787
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    Went for a ride in Pemberton today.
    It was a solo ride so no action pics.

    I first rode a relatively new trail called Fat Tug.
    It has a decent singletrack climb built to access it.
    It's a solidly tech climb. But just to keep you on your game there's a skinny thrown in for good measure!


    I'm guessing from the sign that the builders love Driftwood Brewery's great IPA, Fat Tug. I don't know but it looks that from the sign the brewery helped them out with a sign. That's pretty cool!

    It was a blast of ride down!

    My next trail was a classic. The Tower of Power!
    The actual tower.


    This trail is definitely a double black. A lot of rock lines with lots of exposure at crux moves.
    This is one of the "easier" lines. Although, you do really need to make the left where my bike is parked. Otherwise it's a 20ft drop off if you don't.

    Definitely a fun trail. A bit sphincter puckering in sections!

  88. #1788
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    Oh man, the riding up in Pemby is soooo good. I'm a fan of Tower of Power, and also love Cream Puff... actually, I've loved just about everything I've ever ridden up there.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  89. #1789
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    RE, man, you're a lucky fellow, all your trails look amazingly fun. REALLY need to get off the rock for a trip to someplace like that, as while we have very good trails (told so by visitors all the time) the same stuff for 7 years straight gets a bit much.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  90. #1790
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    I'm loving seeing all your primes here... and the great riding spots you have taken them to.

    Just wanted to do a bit of forum research with you all if you don't mind... since you have primes and have had time on them... what is your opinion on the ammount of travel the frame offers. Do you have any desire for more, or for less, or is it just right for you?

    Likewise for geometry... any changes you would like to see in future itterations?

    Any feedback would be much appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Keith
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  91. #1791
    live long and huck
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    Keith,

    I'm probably not nearly as "in tune" with the mechanics of design as a lot of the guys around here, and I've seen vid and pics from a lot here that are way better riders than me, but my opinion and for the riding that I do, I am 100% satisfied with my 2013. I'm 220ish with gear, ride lots of steeps and heavy chunk, much of it at speed, I don't get big air, generally 3 footers or less. I've got a 150mm Pike and CCDBair, marshmallow plush, very rarely do I bottom. My Prime eats anything I have balls enough to steer it into, when I climb and especially when it's chunky the only limitation is me. Concerning geometry, I like it just fine, I like a little tighter cockpit. I'm 6' and typical build on a medium, 55mm stem, 750mm bars.

    As far as I'm concerned my Prime & Phantom stable is all I need. Now, if you're going to revise the Prime, should I start thinking about a new wheel build now? Lol.

    I've had V1 & V2 Paradoxes also. I love Banshee bikes, fit me like a glove, handle my ham fisted abuse with ease, bring smiles and smiles to my face.
    Low and slack.

  92. #1792
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post

    Likewise for geometry... any changes you would like to see in future itterations?
    Any feedback would be much appreciated!
    Hey Keith,
    I posted my general feedback over in the Spitfire thread. Some thoughts specific to the Prime;

    When the Prime came out, it was ahead of it's time and there weren't great fork options for LT 29" yet. The Prime's geometry chart references a 546mm a-2-c, which is basically a 140mm fox 34. That's not enough fork for this bike!

    I ended up running both a Pike and a Fox 36 at 150 & 160mm once those became available, but they raised the BB up & increased the wheelbase too much for me. Head angle was good though, at around 66. Eventually I went to the spitfire and that's been a better bike for me.

    So basically I think the Prime needs a geometry correction for the current set of 29" forks (i.e. 567mm @ 160mm).

    I'd want the wheelbase on the medium to stay below 46" and BB below 13.5", ideally lower, with the 160mm fork and slack setting. IIRC with the fox 36 @ 160, my WB was like 46.25 and my BB was 13.7". I don't have the skills to snap that much bike around a corner!

    Oh.. and I do like my Following in slack mode with a 140 fork. 13" BB, 45.5" WB, 66 head angle. That bike slays corners.. and I can always raise it up for summer epic XC rides.

  93. #1793
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    I had to come back to the start of my post because I realized that I fully rambled all over the place!
    I'm quite a few beers in so, hopefully, it makes some kind of sense!


    There's really only two changes I'd make. That's the wheelbase length (shorten it) and the HTA (slacker).

    I agree with what FM said about where to change the Prime.

    I'm well outside of the normal body type that most bikes are developed for. I'm 6'6" and 240ish lbs.
    The XL Prime fits very well.

    I ride my Prime as a do everything bike. It does duty as an XC rig but it also gets ridden like a freeride sled.

    When riding more freeride like trails I do think a slacker HTA would be better. But I also think that I should upgrade to a burlier fork rather than the F34 that I'm running. So, take that info for what it's worth.

    Maybe add a bit more rear travel. I see that has happened with the newer frames. That the travel has been bumped up to 135mm from 130mm. I'm on 2013 frame.
    Maybe 140mm?
    I think I've finally dialed in my CCDDaCS and I'm not clanging off the bottom of the travel. So, maybe the more rear travel request is moot.

    Don't change how burly this frame is. It was ahead of its time and it has done well. I think only minor tweaks are needed to bring the Prime back to the bleeding edge of "now".

    Realistically, all I really need to do is change a few components and I'll be super happy again with my bike.
    It does very well the way it's dressed currently but I do worry about the fork at times. However, I never worry about the frame.

  94. #1794
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Just wanted to do a bit of forum research with you all if you don't mind... since you have primes and have had time on them... what is your opinion on the ammount of travel the frame offers. Do you have any desire for more, or for less, or is it just right for you?

    Likewise for geometry... any changes you would like to see in future itterations?
    Hey Keith,

    you already asked me what to improve on the Prime when we met at Eurobike last year and I didn't know what to answer offhanded as I'm pretty happy with my Prime since 3 years. I'm using it as my AM bike for rides in alpine terrain.
    I test rode different 27,5" bikes in the last 2 years but none inspired me for a change.

    After thinking in more detail about the question I would appreciate a shorter rear end - discarding the front derailleur option on the Prime if necessary. Geometry adaption to longer forks, slightly longer reach and slacker head angle, shifting the slack position as neutral setting. Maybe a little more rear travel.

    In my opinion the Prime should be more separated from the Phantom.

    Thanks for this great bike!

  95. #1795
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    @builttoride, keep prime focus on trail-am-enduro, with similar rear travel. Upgrade front travel 150-160 mm. Shorten rear end. Little less weight. Prowd owner from 3 years ago

  96. #1796
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    I'm late on this one, but here is my .02.

    Geo based around a 150 fork
    Increase travel to 140-145
    Drop BB in lowest setting to 13.0 or maybe even 12.9.
    Add positive clamp-downs for cables.

    That's about it. The reason for the lower bottom bracket is that I find that the Prime tolerates a low BB very well due to the high anti-squat of the KS link suspension. And with the bigger tires more people are running these days, the BB may end up a little higher.

    Regardless, thank you for building this bike. After much frustration trying to find a bike that checked all the boxes, the stars lined up with the Prime and I found the bike that was perfect for me. A great-pedaling slack 29er with a beefy, stiff frame, adjustable geo, threaded BB, low standover, etc.

  97. #1797
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    Here's how my Prime is looking these days, with the Phoenix skyline in the background.

    IMG_0970 by dbozman1173, on Flickr
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  98. #1798
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    It was Happy Bike Park Opening Day!



    Sorry no action pics.
    And, yes, this is a relevant post because I was riding my Prime. My DH bike hasn't been delivered yet and I wasn't not going to ride the WBP on opening day!

  99. #1799
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  100. #1800
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I'm loving seeing all your primes here... and the great riding spots you have taken them to.

    Just wanted to do a bit of forum research with you all if you don't mind... since you have primes and have had time on them... what is your opinion on the ammount of travel the frame offers. Do you have any desire for more, or for less, or is it just right for you?

    Likewise for geometry... any changes you would like to see in future itterations?

    Any feedback would be much appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Keith

    ok Keith.
    shorter CS, more side clearance for + tyres, boost option dropouts, weight trim (without loosing stiffness)
    PM brake mount, tad slacker HT, bit more reach....and I think you can get rid of FD.
    thanks for asking
    Last edited by filbike; 05-26-2016 at 09:02 AM.

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