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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    No one's running a 120mm fork on their Prime, why would they? Prime is designed around a 140mm fork, BB height is perfect with it, as is the HA, why would anyone purposely lower the BB and steepen the HA? I had intentions to try a 120mm fork on mine, but once I got it I quickly realised what a silly exercise it would be. If you want a bike with less travel or steeper angles, maybe the Prime isn't for you.
    so you roll your eyes at someone who is thinking of doing the same thing you were thinking of??

  2. #302
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    If you are seriously considering the Prime, definitely sell the 120mm and buy a 140mm fork, I think if you don't run the Prime with it's intended travel/A2C fork you'd really be missing out on the entire experience the entire package gives..

    You could run it in the steep setting which would raise the BB 1/2" over the slackest setting, but then your HTA would be about 69.25*, which I guess is not too bad, but about the same as the RIP. In running the 120mm fork you'd be dropping the BB probably more than the 1/2" down close to 13" UNsagged, SAGged then it's probably be close to 12", which where I ride equals lots of pedals strikes or lots of pedal timing and the really nice thing about the Prime is it's ability to just sit and pedal (plow) over/through stuff, which doesn't quite mesh with having to time pedal strikes to avoid pedal strikes. Now there was one tester I'm aware of who said he'd like a lower BB, but the majority I think liked the higher BB and hence the height stayed the same from pre-production to production.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch1413 View Post
    Cause thats all i got:-) i come from a niner rip9 which has a steep hta compared to the prime. I havent checked the rip bb height comparatively though. If i buy a prime ill be trying the 120. Hopefully such blasphemy wont bring the end of the world upon us.
    Where do you see I rolled my eyes? No where I said crazy, that's different As to the why I was thinking it, because I was a tester, that's why, you know, the people who test stuff out to see if it's a good idea or not and that was a general consensus AFIK, hence it was not changed, just an in between setting added.
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    so you roll your eyes at someone who is thinking of doing the same thing you were thinking of??
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    Keith, what size chainring is the Prime optimized for? 32 or 30t? Wondering should i order 30t for my XX1..
    Thre is no such thing as a single optimal chainring size. It depends on what characteristics you want and where you are in the travel. That said the range I would recommend goes from 28-34 if running a XX1 setup to match the 29" gear ratios, and I have matched the linkage kinemtaics to this chainring range.

    Personally if running 1x11 I would opt for a 32 tooth chainring on the prime, as that would be plenty easy enough on the climbs, and give good speed on fast descents and reduce pedal kickback slightly over a smaller chainring option.
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch1413 View Post
    Cause thats all i got:-) Hopefully such blasphemy wont bring the end of the world upon us.
    Sasquatch- 120mm won't be quite ideal, but it'll get the job done and you'll still love the bike.

    Giving up 20mm travel is not a huge deal, the impact to the geometry is the concern.....
    Keeping it in perspective- 20mm difference in front will steepen the head angle around 1 degree and lower the BB around 6mm. Some prime owners are running internal lower headset cups, they're already giving up 10mm+ of fork length. Look for a headset with an external lower cup, to help keep the head tube where it should be.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Where do you see I rolled my eyes? No where I said crazy, that's different As to the why I was thinking it, because I was a tester, that's why, you know, the people who test stuff out to see if it's a good idea or not and that was a general consensus AFIK, hence it was not changed, just an in between setting added.
    tester? you paid for the privilege, you aren't a professional "tester" by any stretch, sorry to burst your bubble.

    like fm stated, en external cup with a 120mm fork won't ruin the geometry. he could also add a + 5mm crown race to get it even closer

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Sasquatch- 120mm won't be quite ideal, but it'll get the job done and you'll still love the bike.

    Giving up 20mm travel is not a huge deal, the impact to the geometry is the concern.....
    Keeping it in perspective- 20mm difference in front will steepen the head angle around 1 degree and lower the BB around 6mm. Some prime owners are running internal lower headset cups, they're already giving up 10mm+ of fork length. Look for a headset with an external lower cup, to help keep the head tube where it should be.
    i think production frame is supposed to be with internal cups with 140mm fork

  7. #307
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    Is this bike "too much" to be a "trail bike", with XC-terrain and necessary pavement bits? Is this AM bike with clear downhill flavor? Or is this more like a strong build, go-anywhere, how far you want, trail bike? No proper mountains here, more like constant climbing and descending hills and a lot of flat areas, some steep parts but mostly short-lived. Roots and rocks and dense woods. I'm also a lightweight dude who has habit of standing and smashing climbs. I think it looks absolutely beautiful in every way, but I have feeling it may be like drooling after an off-road vehicle that eats up too much gas and that I wouldn't drive where it were meant to be driven anyway. I'm just wondering if the suspension design and geometry options and such would make it fine all-rounder. Also whether it's bike you climb to enjoy the descents or enjoy the whole thing pretty equally.

  8. #308
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    First yellow completes that I've seen anywhere.


  9. #309
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    Sakucee, looks like you're right- I see the production head tubes are 44/56mm. 1.5 head tubes are 49mm and I don't see any 56mm external cups available.

    welcome to the trainwreck that is MTB headset "standards"!

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horros View Post
    Is this bike "too much" to be a "trail bike", with XC-terrain and necessary pavement bits? Is this AM bike with clear downhill flavor? Or is this more like a strong build, go-anywhere, how far you want, trail bike? No proper mountains here, more like constant climbing and descending hills and a lot of flat areas, some steep parts but mostly short-lived. Roots and rocks and dense woods. I'm also a lightweight dude who has habit of standing and smashing climbs. I think it looks absolutely beautiful in every way, but I have feeling it may be like drooling after an off-road vehicle that eats up too much gas and that I wouldn't drive where it were meant to be driven anyway. I'm just wondering if the suspension design and geometry options and such would make it fine all-rounder. Also whether it's bike you climb to enjoy the descents or enjoy the whole thing pretty equally.
    I have to pedal a lot on my trails, no long downhills and everything is infested with roots and rocks and wheelie drops, no complaints so far, i do run 28t single in front, i have no idea whats the current build weight, really should measure it..

    Alot of it depends what shock you decide to run, CTD shocks have massive platform on climb mode.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    tester? you paid for the privilege, you aren't a professional "tester" by any stretch, sorry to burst your bubble.

    like fm stated, en external cup with a 120mm fork won't ruin the geometry. he could also add a + 5mm crown race to get it even closer
    I don't see where he said he was a 'professional' tester. He is part of the group who got a 'proto' frame at a pretty good deal and we did have our own discussion page where the 'testers' did discuss pros and cons of various set-ups. BTW there currently isn't an external headset for the 56mm tapered headsets.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    First yellow completes that I've seen anywhere.

    Best color I've seen. If I decide to get one it will have to be yellow. The color definitely fits the aggressive nature of the bike.

  13. #313
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    Dang loving the yellow!! and I've Just heard that my Raw Frame has finally arrived in the UK I just need to sneak him through customs lol

  14. #314
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    I've read somewhere on this forum that for 2014 there will be a 562mm 160mm 29er fork.

    Would such a fork be ok to use on a Prime? Warranty etc.?

    The yellow ones look absolutely fantastic. I want to buy/build a large frame for bike park and shuttle days.

    I'd put a 150mm 34 on there, as they're already available.
    But if a 160mm 29er fork would/will be available, I'd love to fit one. IF Banshee allows that.

    Maybe someone can chime in and enlighten us.

    As a side note: The Prime is really a stunning bike. Wonderful shape and design. Congratulations, Banshee.

    Greetings Znarf

  15. #315
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    Built.

    34.75 lbs

    It required grinding the front derailleur a bit, but not a big deal. Everything shifts with two plus bash up front and 150 rear.

    This is a very, very robust and stiff frame.

    I like the CCDB around the driveway. It will truly do anything you want it to do.

    When set to slack, it appears to be a geometric twin to my 2010 Stumpy: Perhaps 1/2 degree slacker, no more up front. Cockpit is identical. BB height identical, Chainstay identical.

    It just weighs 3.5 lbs more.

    1 lb is in the fork. The wheels probably account for 1/2 to 1 lb, and figure another lb in the frame/CCDB shock.

    Hopefully some ride impressions with pics tomorrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  16. #316
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    That's with the Shimano XT FD then that you had to grind? No issues with the SRAM XO, so something learned I guess in that maybe the Shimano's are still not a perfect fit.

    With regards to your Stumpy, was it a 26er or 29er? If it was the 29er you're right, everything but the HA is almost identical, but the HA should be about 2 degrees slacker. Was/is this a feeling you're going by? If so, if you used an F34 140mm fork, it has a 51mm offset and the Stumpy used a 120mm with 46 or 48mm offset, so the greater offset makes the Prime handle snappier than you think it should and why it might feel only slightly slacker when in fact it's 2 degrees

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Built............34.75 lbs

    It required grinding the front derailleur a bit, but not a big deal. Everything shifts with two plus bash up front and 150 rear.

    This is a very, very robust and stiff frame.

    I like the CCDB around the driveway. It will truly do anything you want it to do.

    When set to slack, it appears to be a geometric twin to my 2010 Stumpy: Perhaps 1/2 degree slacker, no more up front. Cockpit is identical. BB height identical, Chainstay identical.

    It just weighs 3.5 lbs more.

    1 lb is in the fork. The wheels probably account for 1/2 to 1 lb, and figure another lb in the frame/CCDB shock.

    Hopefully some ride impressions with pics tomorrow.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    That's with the Shimano XT FD then that you had to grind? No issues with the SRAM XO, so something learned I guess in that maybe the Shimano's are still not a perfect fit.

    With regards to your Stumpy, was it a 26er or 29er? If it was the 29er you're right, everything but the HA is almost identical, but the HA should be about 2 degrees slacker. Was/is this a feeling you're going by? If so, if you used an F34 140mm fork, it has a 51mm offset and the Stumpy used a 120mm with 46 or 48mm offset, so the greater offset makes the Prime handle snappier than you think it should and why it might feel only slightly slacker when in fact it's 2 degrees
    It's the Jenson Shimano derailleur linked to above. I had to do a more aggressive grind on my Lenz bikes. It hits the up and down part of the main rear triangle. And the triangle will push the body of the derailleur slightly on full compression with the shock disconnected.

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357310472.004444.jpg

    I am pretty impressed with the cable routing and guides. Good design Keith.

    Angles are measured: Fox 36 with machined crown on the Prime 68-68.5. Reba 140 on the Stumpy 68-68.5. Both have a 545mm A-C. The Prime is absolutely, positively no slacker.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    The Prime is absolutely, positively no slacker.
    Cool, what settings are your drop-outs in? Ah I see- slack.
    Last edited by FM; 01-04-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  19. #319
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    Ah crap, so despite changes to fix this, still an issue with Shimano FDs or at least older models. Did you try compressing the suspension with the shock in place just deflated? I'd expect there's a bit of play that the travel doesn't use and disconnecting the shock would then let it hit. I'm guessing the Shimano cage is longer/deeper than the SRAMs, hence causing it to hit the stay, think for the newer 780 model they shortened/narrowed this up. I've about 3/8" clearance between the stay and my XO FD on full compression, even when I remove the shock it still has just a smidge less clearance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    It's the Jenson Shimano derailleur linked to above. I had to do a more aggressive grind on my Lenz bikes. It hits the up and down part of the main rear triangle. And the triangle will push the body of the derailleur slightly on full compression with the shock disconnected.
    Yeah routing is very good. Did they put a cable boss inside the seatstay for the rear brake cable to be tied to? Curious, it was something I mentioned in my feedback as I thought it could use it, although I haven't had an issues with mine that doesn't have it and I've run it with a cable tie holding the line in place and without, just always cautious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    I am pretty impressed with the cable routing and guides. Good design Keith.
    Ah OK, so not a stock Stumpy, longer fork, got it - 2010 Stumpy specs list it as coming with a 120mm fork. Interested to hear your thoughts on how they compared, especially stiffness wise. For me the stiffness just inspires so much confidence that I'm trying and riding stuff I never thought I would.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Angles are measured: Fox 36 with machined crown on the Prime 68-68.5. Reba 140 on the Stumpy 68-68.5. Both have a 545mm A-C. The Prime is absolutely, positively no slacker.
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  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Ah OK, so not a stock Stumpy, longer fork, got it - 2010 Stumpy specs list it as coming with a 120mm fork.
    Yeah, all things in context... comparing the geometry charts, looks the the stumpy with a 140 fork will be pretty close, except a slacker seat angle/longer TT within a similar wheelbase.

    All conjecture
    Looking forward to some ride reports!

    As for the cable routing- there is "secret cable guide"- just wrap a zip-tie diagonally around the swingarm just above the cross-brace. sorry for the rotated pic.


  21. #321
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    I came up with a similar resolution to FM, but added an extra loop to keep the line from sawing into the frame with time.

    EDIT: It looks like we also share the same ardent obsession with a meticulously cleaned bike



    Lynx...you mean this bad boy?

    Last edited by jncarpenter; 01-04-2013 at 03:40 PM.


  22. #322
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    Glamour shots

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357360787.503158.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357360798.741632.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357360815.803112.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357360832.848662.jpg

    It rides very nicely indeed. It is not much different than the Stumpy, but this is very preliminary. I can say it does not have any noticeable bad habits at least at slower speeds.

    The CCDB is going to take some time to tune. It will behave just about any way you like though.

    Vids to follow.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  23. #323
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    Yup, that's the one I'm talking about Bit obsessive about keeping lines/cables OUT of the wheels Good to see that us un-paid "proffessional testers" feedback was maybe of some value
    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Lynx...you mean this bad boy?

    Man Enel, you sure do have some nice terrain for the Prime, you're going to have a blast on that stuff, for me especially the slow speed, chunky stuff where the stiffness really makes a difference is where I love the Prime. Would love to be able to try a CC DB, have only heard excellent things about them, unfortunately my pocket doesn't have those $$ right now so I'll be going with a X-Fusion 02 RLX or RCX first and then maybe the Vector AIR after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Glamour shots
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It rides very nicely indeed. It is not much different than the Stumpy, but this is very preliminary. I can say it does not have any noticeable bad habits at least at slower speeds.

    The CCDB is going to take some time to tune. It will behave just about any way you like though.

    Vids to follow.
    Last edited by LyNx; 01-05-2013 at 04:17 AM.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  24. #324
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    Good news Prime has finally landed!

    Couple of build pics.

    Medium, Fit seems very good just riding around the street, I am sure will need to tweak once out on the trail tomorrow

    Still trying to dial in the gears and need to figure out how heavy I am to set the suspension up a wee bit better.

    No idea how heavy the bike is either

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p1010975.jpg

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p1010976.jpg

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p1010985.jpg

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p1020004.jpg

  25. #325
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    Vids. Cover your ears if they are sensitive

    Climbing:

    Ugly but Effective from Enel on Vimeo.



    Rolling:

    Gap Roller from Enel on Vimeo.



    Tight chunk:

    Chess from Enel on Vimeo.



    I don't know what happened with the camera on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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