• 02-17-2014
    LyNx
    Not sure what you consider a good deal, but to me $107 US for an XT M785 brake is a damn good deal from Wiggle, CRC has them for $113 US but they list most as the newer I-specB option. Both are out of stock of the rear, right hand lever, but if you're buying a pair you just easily swap the hoses around. I've been using CRC, they ship Royal Mail for $16 US and you can normally fit a lot for that and coming in through the post I hardly ever pay duties, get's here in about 10 days. The one thing I found I had to do was move the XTs in way closer to the grips than I used to have the Avids and Hayes, as they have a much shorter lever.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Exactly, who knows?I may be eating my words in the months to come!

    I started with getting great deals on SRAM parts so that is where all my buying went to when getting new parts. If I can somehow get a miraculous deal on XT or XTR brakes then that will become a serious option. But right now I can get a pretty solid deal on Avid/SRAM components and have had positive experiences with Avid up to this point.

    Funnily enough I don't use matchmakers with anything on my bars because of the size of my hands, where I rest them on the grips and the positions I like my brake levers and shifter paddles at. I even squeezed the Reverb button between the 2 shift paddles of my front derailleur shifter so that my bar ergonomics would work for me. I like to run the right-side Reverb button upside down on the left side.
    I know that you can run Shimano and SRAM bits together on the bars but the shape of the Shimano bits puts everything else in my setup out of whack. It leads me to either compromise my brake lever positions or my shifter positions.

  • 02-17-2014
    Optimus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Exactly, who knows?

    I may be eating my words in the months to come!

    I never said that Shimano sucked nor that Avid was the best. I know that both companies make great components. Perspective and experience makes us choose one over the other.
    I just found the absolutist position that Avid outright sucks both entertaining, irksome and in need of a response. :devil:

    I started with getting great deals on SRAM parts so that is where all my buying went to when getting new parts. If I can somehow get a miraculous deal on XT or XTR brakes then that will become a serious option. But right now I can get a pretty solid deal on Avid/SRAM components and have had positive experiences with Avid up to this point.

    Funnily enough I don't use matchmakers with anything on my bars because of the size of my hands, where I rest them on the grips and the positions I like my brake levers and shifter paddles at. I even squeezed the Reverb button between the 2 shift paddles of my front derailleur shifter so that my bar ergonomics would work for me. I like to run the right-side Reverb button upside down on the left side.
    I know that you can run Shimano and SRAM bits together on the bars but the shape of the Shimano bits puts everything else in my setup out of whack. It leads me to either compromise my brake lever positions or my shifter positions.

    Everybody's physical attributes are different. For me, I run my brake levers way inboard, I have zero interference issues with Shimano brakes and SRAM shifters, luv my X9/X0 SRAM goodies as much as Shimano brakes. A few years ago I traded in my very noisy Elixirs for XT's and just keep using Shimano. I did seriously consider Hope's or Formula's for my Prime, but stuck with some Zee's, luv me some 4 piston calipers too.

    For each of us, what works, works.
  • 02-17-2014
    evasive
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Everybody's physical attributes are different. For me, I run my brake levers way inboard, I have zero interference issues with Shimano brakes and SRAM shifters, luv my X9/X0 SRAM goodies as much as Shimano brakes.

    This is my preferred setup, too.
  • 02-21-2014
    walt06
    1 Attachment(s)
    My Prime with 650B rear wheel:

    Attachment 871208

    Looks a bit strange, but the smaller rear wheel gives a little more clearance in tight technical terrain. Geometry stays the same with dropouts in steep position as the slack setting with 29" rear wheel.
  • 02-21-2014
    Kofoed
    Doesn't look that strange..
    Like to know the HA with the dropouts in slack mode though?
  • 02-21-2014
    unrooted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by walt06 View Post
    the smaller rear wheel gives a little more clearance in tight technical terrain. Geometry stays the same with dropouts in steep position.

    Explain.

    No matter what wheel size you can fit in there you aren't changing the wheelbase.
  • 02-21-2014
    MartinS
    Other than possibly mud clearance and initial acceleration I don't see a benefit to this. Your wb stays the same and the wheel will hang up a little more in rocky rooty tech stuff.
  • 02-21-2014
    walt06
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kofoed View Post
    Doesn't look that strange..
    Like to know the HA with the dropouts in slack mode though?

    On the first ride with the 650B rear wheel I rode it in the middle dropout setting but I didn't liked it as the seat angle was to slack und BB a little too low.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    Explain.

    No matter what wheel size you can fit in there you aren't changing the wheelbase.

    I was talking about the clearance around the rear wheel. In very steep sections I had contact with my butt on the rear wheel, especially when the rear suspension dives in on riding down a step. I often ride hiking trails with tight switchbacks where you have to nose-wheelie/front-pivot the bike around the turn, or turn around on place with little space. With the smaller wheel you have a shorter overall length of the bike.
    It was ok with the 29er rear wheel, but as the big wheel doesn't help much downhill I decided to try it with 650B in the rear.
  • 02-21-2014
    C.P.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by walt06 View Post
    My Prime with 650B rear wheel:

    Interesting...kinda cool that you can adjust things to keep BB height & head/seat angles in check. edit: looking at Banshee's geo charts, the WB/Chainstay length appears to shorten a bit with the flip chips in the hi setting, a benefit IMO if you can keep the rest of the #'s in check.
    Chainstay Length Low - 448mm (17.6") | Neutral - 445mm (17.5") | High - 443mm (17.4")

    Maybe it's a touch easier to manual with the rear axle height lower?, maybe easier to tail-whip? Did you build this after running it 29:29, or is this a fresh build (IE I'm interested to hear if there's a ride comparison you may be able to comment on). edit - just saw you posted my answer above...I probably would have played w/ adjusting the rear end to a slacker setting w/ 29:29 before committing to this change...nonetheless, it's all about the miles of smiles you get out of your own build that counts the most.
  • 02-21-2014
    FM
    walt06, thats pretty cool!
    I hear what you're sayin about azz-clearance. Pretty common to buzz your bum on ultra-steep rollers. DO you notice any downsides to the smaller rear, like climbing?

    Also, is that a monarch plus? How is that?
    Great lookin' bike.
  • 02-21-2014
    C.P.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Also, is that a monarch plus? How is that?

    YES, I would like to know also. I've only had my Prime since June, and already sent the CCDBAir in for repair work...kinda bummed about that, so already preparing to look for options in case I need to bail on it.
  • 02-22-2014
    walt06
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FM View Post
    DO you notice any downsides to the smaller rear, like climbing?

    Hm, I have no real back-to-back comparison between the 2 rear wheels (my 29er wheel is not X01 compatible). Downhill I don't feel any downsides. Traction uphill is a little less, but that's 650B High Roller with its ramped knobs compared to Hans Dampf 29. Nevertheless for allround use I think I would prefer 29" front and rear.

    Would be interesting to see how shorter dropouts would work - although I find the bike well balanced with the original geometry.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Also, is that a monarch plus? How is that?

    Yes, it's a Monarch Plus RC3 High Volume with M/M tune. Feels very plush and dialed to the 150mm Pike. The Fox CTD I had to ride in the trail setting to get sufficient compression damping, compromising the suppleness. Whereas the Monarch I can ride in open position in all situations. However I only rode it on natural trails yet, so I can't comment on berms and jumps.
  • 02-24-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Thinking about getting a new shock for my Prime to try something other than the Float CTD.

    Contenders are DBAir and Monarch Plus. Dark horses would be RS Vivid Air and the X-Fusion Vector Air.

    Monarch Plus has the advantages of cheaper and lighter. Possibly easier to set up. Disadvantages would be perhaps harder to source the correct tune and not as many Prime users running it to help me with setup.

    I am kind of leaning towards DBAir just because it is "Banshee approved" and there are a lot of other users out there. Cost and weight are disadvantages, but not huge ones. I would like to hear about reliability. I guess I will always have the Float as a backup, but I hate unreliable stuff. I am also a little worried that the DBAir has too much adjustability - I am not a shock expert by any means. I am torn between the desire to tinker and the fear of being overwhelmed. :)

    One perk of the DBAir is that I am almost local to Cane Creek - about a two hour drive away. So that might come in handy if I have to send it in for service.

    Thoughts & suggestions welcome.
  • 02-24-2014
    evasive
    I have been very pleased with my Vector Air. So much so that when I move to the production frame, I'm seriously considering keeping it and using the CCDBA as 'buy me' bait for selling the pre-production frame. I don't have any experience with the CCDBA myself, but the honeymoon has ended for several of my friends.
  • 02-24-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    the honeymoon has ended for several of my friends.

    Can you elaborate? Ended due to reliability issues? Performance issues?
  • 02-24-2014
    evasive
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    One has never been able to get happy with it on his Chilcotin, and I know a couple others who have had some of the reliability issues you've probably read about on the forums. Granted, that's anecdotal and the odds of good results are probably much higher.
  • 02-24-2014
    Colin+M
    I have one of the earlier DBairs and I wasn't impressed with it either. Did some diggin' (in a Chilly thread actually) and realized I had one of the old air sleeve designs which was limiting travel and making it more harsh. I contacted Cane Creek and they had me send it to Suspension Experts in Asheville and they updated the air sleeve free of charge minus shipping. I've yet to test it out, but will report back afterwards.

    So my point is, take reviews with a grain of salt. They might have the old low flow air sleeve. Once the issue was found, Cane Creek was on top of it and took great care of me.

    I also have a XFusion HLR Air which is a great shock as well, I'll have to compare the two later after some saddle time with the DBair.
  • 02-24-2014
    unrooted
    I recently bought the CCDBair CS, and I hope very much that I don't have issues with it. So far, 2 months, it has been buttery smooth-especially compared to my very sticky X-fusion Trace Fork. . .
  • 02-24-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    sticky X-fusion Trace Fork. . .

    Doh! Don't tell me that. I just put a Trace on my hard tail.
  • 02-24-2014
    FM
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Thinking about getting a new shock for my Prime to try something other than the Float CTD.
    Thoughts & suggestions welcome.

    If anyones interested in some temporary shock demo/ trades, lemme know!

    I have only a Fox Rp23 that has the factory tuning system & big hit kit, tuned specifically for the Prime. Feels great compared to the original stock rp23 but I'd be curious to try an air shock with a reservoir on the Prime.
  • 02-24-2014
    boomforeal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Thinking about getting a new shock for my Prime to try something other than the Float CTD.

    get a used manitou isx-6. you'll spend very little, get to play with all of the settings to your heart's content, and have a great feeling shock. then, when you start to feel insecure about not having the latest and greatest, you'll know exactly what tune to get when you shell out for something overpriced and less adjustable ;)
  • 02-25-2014
    NoStyle
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boomforeal View Post
    get a used manitou isx-6. you'll spend very little, get to play with all of the settings to your heart's content, and have a great feeling shock. then, when you start to feel insecure about not having the latest and greatest, you'll know exactly what tune to get when you shell out for something overpriced and less adjustable ;)

    This! :thumbsup:
    I´m running a Evolver-ISX4 from my Wildcard in my Spitfire. The only difference I feel is the SPV-Platform - it gives a slightly better pedalling while reducing the very little bob, where the CCDB (non CS) has minimum more sensitive on the very small bumps. Still a great but underrated shock! :thumbsup:
  • 02-25-2014
    nomütze
    AW: Production Prime Photo/Build thread



    I'm primed... ;-)


    Gesendet von meinem U9200 mit Tapatalk
  • 02-25-2014
    pinkey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I have one of the earlier DBairs and I wasn't impressed with it either. Did some diggin' (in a Chilly thread actually) and realized I had one of the old air sleeve designs which was limiting travel and making it more harsh. I contacted Cane Creek and they had me send it to Suspension Experts in Asheville and they updated the air sleeve free of charge minus shipping. I've yet to test it out, but will report back afterwards.

    So my point is, take reviews with a grain of salt. They might have the old low flow air sleeve. Once the issue was found, Cane Creek was on top of it and took great care of me.

    how you know if you have the old or new air sleeve?
    Im so far happy with my DB Air, only drawback is that it could be slightly higher in travel when going uphill (is there a way to fix this?)
  • 02-25-2014
    builttoride
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pinkey View Post
    how you know if you have the old or new air sleeve?
    Im so far happy with my DB Air, only drawback is that it could be slightly higher in travel when going uphill (is there a way to fix this?)

    The only way to change this is to change your sag by changing air pressure.

    You can look here for help setting up your sag. Born on the Shore - The Banshee Bikes Blog: KS link bike sag charts
  • 02-25-2014
    Colin+M
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pinkey View Post
    how you know if you have the old or new air sleeve?
    Im so far happy with my DB Air, only drawback is that it could be slightly higher in travel when going uphill (is there a way to fix this?)

    You have to remove the air can and look at the air sleeve.
  • 02-25-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    [QUOTE=nomütze;11023419I'm primed... ;-)

    [/QUOTE]

    Nice ride! I guess you win the award for the first red Prime posted. :)
  • 02-25-2014
    nomütze
    @AOK: thanks for the award!

    Now some questions arose during the build though:

    1) I felt some play in the main pivot of the upper linkage (seat-tube).
    After disassembling, greasing und assembling again it feels fine. However just wondering, what could cause the play. Torque was ok and should not be
    the main issue per design. And yes, it was radial play.

    2) When the rear suspension is coming out of compression it feels like it tops out into a mechanical stop. i kind of "clonk"ing. Now is it because of rear suspension design or a missing end bumper in my X-fusion O2 rcx?
    (edit says: just played around in the garage and of course it´s not the design, it´s
    the x-fusion damper...well, have to wait until riding if it annoys me!?)

    thx for advice
  • 02-26-2014
    nomütze
    ad 2)....just solved it: x-fusion shock arrived with an empty negative air chamber.
    Refilling didn't do the job, so I unmounted the air can and cleaned/lubricated internals.
    When sliding the can back on, the negative chamber is filled automatically...as far as i understood it. The downside of this design is that if the negative air is leaking out you have to do the can-un/mounting again....
  • 02-26-2014
    nomütze
    AW: Production Prime Photo/Build thread



    Gesendet von meinem U9200 mit Tapatalk
  • 02-26-2014
    LyNx
    Did you call X-Fusion to figure this out? Auto negative air is something that happens when you cycle the shock after setting air pressure, as just like the positive air, it has to balance out, couldn't have only 1 negative air pressure, then the shock would behave absolutely all over the place depending on your weight and what PSI you used. If you ever owned and used an RS Dual Air fork, you would understand this better, IF you ever got the fork setup properly ;)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nomütze View Post
    ad 2)....just solved it: x-fusion shock arrived with an empty negative air chamber.
    Refilling didn't do the job, so I unmounted the air can and cleaned/lubricated internals.
    When sliding the can back on, the negative chamber is filled automatically...as far as i understood it. The downside of this design is that if the negative air is leaking out you have to do the can-un/mounting again....

  • 02-26-2014
    nomütze
    Well, googled another x-fusion owner with similar problem. I might be wrong but the O2 shock is missing that small overflow to balance the press. between neg/pos Air Fox/RS shocks have...
    However i understand your point. But my frame came with the shock installed and pressurized. I just set around 150psi and then felt this "clonk".
    So every other attempt to come around this issue failed...until remounting air can.
    Maybe another x-fusion user or mech can jump in?!
    But for now it is working...


    Gesendet von meinem U9200 mit Tapatalk
  • 02-27-2014
    mDaniel
    1 Attachment(s)
    Hey guys,

    just registered at this board after reading it for several months ;-)
    Just thought I'll post some pictures of my WIP Prime build.













    My first custom built (by me :eekster:) bike ever. Took me about 2 weeks to get all the parts and put it together - mostly because I just didn't have all the tools that I needed.

    Specs so far:
    - Banshee Prime Frame
    - Rock Shox Pike RCT3 150mm Solo Air
    - SLX/XT mixture
    - XT brakes
    - black/blue color theme
    - Hope Pro 2 / ZTR Flow EX

    To do:
    - new wheels with blue/black color scheme, will arrive in 2-3 weeks (Hope Pro 2 hubs with Ryde Trail rims... or should I get the Ryde Enduro? Can't make up my mind... 29mm interior width should be overkill for me) - nothings wrong with the old wheels ... I just want to match the wheels to my color scheme... yeah, I'm nuts...
    - Dropper post
    - remove the white decals (I'm thinking about stealth decals maybe)
    - get rid of the spacer tower
    - chain guide
    - convert 3x10 setup to 2x10 + bashguard

    Cheers
    Dan
  • 02-27-2014
    mudpuppy
    Love the black and blue combo....nice Prime!
  • 02-27-2014
    Colin+M
    Great looking build! You might want to re-route your front brake hose inside the fork leg.

    Size large frame? How tall are you?
  • 02-27-2014
    mDaniel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Great looking build! You might want to re-route your front brake hose inside the fork leg.

    Size large frame? How tall are you?

    Yeah, have to reroute it and also chop the brake lines. They both are ~15cm too long but I wanted to testdrive it asap :D

    I'm 1,85m with 89cm inseam length.
  • 02-27-2014
    Colin+M
    Can't blame you for that :)
  • 02-27-2014
    MartinS
    Clean looking build, good job for your first one.
  • 02-27-2014
    nomütze
    1 Attachment(s)
    red prime ready to ride...
  • 02-27-2014
    LyNx
    Definitely a nice looking build, good job as a first timer ;) Yeah, can't blame you for just wanting to ride, but here's some good news for you, with those XTs, generally if you do it right, you don't need to bleed them when you trim the lines, so should be a 5 min job, just use a sharp blade and the provided yellow clamp pieces and when re-installing just lightly squeeze the lever until you see fluid appear out the end of the reservoir where you'd push the hose back in, install hose and tighten. As for wanting a colour match wheelset, if you've can afford it, why not ;) If funds aren't tight you keep the lighter set with lighter tyres for more XC type trails/days and the HD on the burlier set, or a set or dry weather on one set and wet on the other.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Great looking build! You might want to re-route your front brake hose inside the fork leg.

    Size large frame? How tall are you?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mDaniel View Post
    Yeah, have to reroute it and also chop the brake lines. They both are ~15cm too long but I wanted to testdrive it asap :D

    I'm 1,85m with 89cm inseam length.

  • 02-28-2014
    mDaniel
    Thanks for the tip LyNx... I trimmed the lines yesterday evening and everything went fine without needing bleeding :)

    Keeping both wheelsets was my idea too :) Wanted to put Mountain King/XKing on the Ryde Trail set and the HD (or maybe even something "more different" from the MK/XK set) on the ZTR Flow :)

    Any suggestions for a dropper post? I had a reverb on my old bike but I'm thinking about a KS Lev...

    @mütze: nice build :)
  • 02-28-2014
    Colin+M
    I'm back in the club. Went with a medium this time instead of a Large, so far I think I made the right choice riding around the 'hood. The proto that I had was a medium and I loved it, but I somehow talked myself into thinking a large would fit me better and it always felt a bit too long.

    Pics to come later.

    Of course it's yellow:)

    The plan is for this to be my placeholder until the Phantom is available, we'll see.
  • 02-28-2014
    evasive
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Welcome back! Looking forward to these pics.
  • 03-01-2014
    Optimus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mDaniel View Post
    Thanks for the tip LyNx... I trimmed the lines yesterday evening and everything went fine without needing bleeding :)

    Keeping both wheelsets was my idea too :) Wanted to put Mountain King/XKing on the Ryde Trail set and the HD (or maybe even something "more different" from the MK/XK set) on the ZTR Flow :)

    Any suggestions for a dropper post? I had a reverb on my old bike but I'm thinking about a KS Lev...

    @mütze: nice build :)

    I've had 3 LEV's and an i900, really like KS seat posts. Currently my LEV from my Paradox is at KS being repaired, the kevlar actuator cable broke. My i900 had developed a minimal vertical play that KS fixed right up. 4 posts, 4 years, only 2 problems. My buddy, who is a LBS head mechanic, really likes the RockShox post.
  • 03-01-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    @Evasive - did you get any of the factory tuning from X-Fusion on your Vector HLR or are you just running a stock model on your prime?

    @Colin - curious which shock you are running on the prime this time around.
  • 03-01-2014
    Colin+M
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    @Evasive - did you get any of the factory tuning from X-Fusion on your Vector HLR or are you just running a stock model on your prime?

    @Colin - curious which shock you are running on the prime this time around.

    I've got a CCDB XV on there now, first ride to come today. I also have a XF Vector HLR Air to try at sometime as well so I'd be interested in Evasive's answer/tips.
  • 03-01-2014
    LyNx
    Far as I know since the Vector HLR has High/Low speed adjustments, there's not really any tuning they offer for it, at least that's what I remember when talking to John at X-Fusion about it. Far as I remember, there were 3 or 4 guys who tested the Primes using the Vector and not one wasn't happy with them. If funds permit down the road I'd like to pick one up for mine, but right now anything spare will be going into my Phantom build and will be running an 02 RCX & TRACE on that.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    @Evasive - did you get any of the factory tuning from X-Fusion on your Vector HLR or are you just running a stock model on your prime?

    @Colin - curious which shock you are running on the prime this time around.

  • 03-01-2014
    evasive
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    @Evasive - did you get any of the factory tuning from X-Fusion on your Vector HLR or are you just running a stock model on your prime?

    Stock. I didn't ask about the factory tuning options as I didn't hear about them until after I'd bought it. But I'm quite satisfied with its performance as-is.

    Edit- just saw LyNx's post. I do remember someone commenting about their in-house tuning for an extra $50. This was over a year ago, so I don't remember the details. They didn't pitch it to me as an option, though (I bought it over the phone).
  • 03-01-2014
    Colin+M
    1 Attachment(s)
    More to come, the forum and my pics aren't getting along.
  • 03-01-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    X-Fusion mentions factory tunes on their website. And a lot of the posts about vector airs mention a custom tune (i.e. DW link or VPP tunes). If I go with the vector, I will most likely just opt for a stock version.

    Colin - let me know how your new and improved DBAir does.
  • 03-01-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    More to come, the forum and my pics aren't getting along.

    Hmmm... That Prime looks vaguely familiar. :)

  • 03-01-2014
    Colin+M
    North Georgia Yellow Prime Club.
  • 03-02-2014
    Colin+M
    7 Attachment(s)
  • 03-02-2014
    LyNx
    Hum looking nice, as usual. Is that a new hydration pack to match the grips or new grips to match the pack? :D If those are your regular trails, then I think I'd tend to agree, that like me the Phantom will be a good choice. As to the o-ring, going by what you used on the Pike compared to the DB, I'd say add 10-15 PSI to the Pike, if one of the two are going to use full travel, I'd rather it be the shock over the fork.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Attachment 873652

    As you can see from the suspension O-rings, it was a good ride:)

  • 03-02-2014
    Colin+M
    Yeah, trying to decide if I need less in the shock or more in the fork. Sag is 25% on both, might need to put a token in the Pike.

    That's an access trail, so it's pretty tame, but still would be a great fit for a Phantom. That's the plan.
  • 03-02-2014
    Colin+M
    The grips are Turquoise from my Yeti, I thought it was a nice obnoxious touch. The pack is ENDURO blue, of course;)
  • 03-02-2014
    LyNx
    I NEVER set fork SAG, only ever set shock SAG as it's very hard to get yourself up and balanced on the pedals where you need to be to set fork SAG. Also as you brake, your weight tends to be propelled forward and changes the whole weight balance making setting SAG on the fork not really accurate, I go by a rough bounce test of putting all my weight on the fork and pushing down, if I can get it to about 40% travel, then that's my starting point, I adjust from there. I'd think that unless you hit some drops on this ride, then the shock is good and the fork wants air so you have something left if you did come across a drop, if you happened to have hit a decent drop and landed nose heavy, then maybe the other way around, but I'm guessing what I said first.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Yeah, trying to decide if I need less in the shock or more in the fork. Sag is 25% on both, might need to put a token in the Pike.

    That's an access trail, so it's pretty tame, but still would be a great fit for a Phantom. That's the plan.

  • 03-02-2014
    Optimus
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but proper Prime sag on the shock is 13mm. I set my shock right to the recommendation, and also my fork to RS recommended PSI for my riding weight. I then twiddle with the gizmos to get it to ride the way that I prefer. I am 205ish fully geared, have the HV can on my CC, rarely fully bottom the shock but I rarely go over 3' to flat, and occasionally bottom my fork but never can feel when I do. I may be a complete idiot where bike suspension setup is concerned, but my Strava times downhill through some of the nastiest AZ chunk indicate that I am doing something right. And it just "feels" right, and fast.
  • 03-02-2014
    FM
    two tokens made a big improvement in my Pike. Before that it felt great, but occasionally let me down while cornering, like there wasn't enough mid stroke support. I had tried increasing compression damping but then the fork started spiking (spiky pike!). adding tokens created more midstroke support with less compression damping.

    As for sag, my experience is that sag is totally relative to how progressive your suspension is. 30% sag can be too much if your suspension is too linear, or not enough if it's super progressive.

    Riding style is a huge factor too. I know what works for my riding style, might not be optimal for anyone else. I generally prefer suspension that rides firm and progressive with minimal compression damping and moderately fast rebound, so it's active but efficient and only uses full travel when I'm in trouble!
  • 03-02-2014
    Colin+M
    I had no complaints on the ride yesterday. Might tweak some here and there, but overall I was very pleased.
  • 03-02-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    From my ride today. I thought I would post a pic that actually has mountains in it instead of the usual "propped against a tree" look.

  • 03-02-2014
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post

    That's an access trail, so it's pretty tame, but still would be a great fit for a Phantom. That's the plan.

    Phantom? Is this something I should know about?
  • 03-02-2014
    evasive
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Phantom? Is this something I should know about?

    Not sure how relevant it will be to you, but:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/banshee-bikes/lets-speculate-about-new-banshee-29er-827786.html
  • 03-03-2014
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Not sure how relevant it will be to you, but:
    Let's speculate about the new Banshee 29er!


    Actually extremely relevant. I think the Prime is a whole lotta bike for most things.

    Thanks.
  • 03-03-2014
    Colin+M
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Actually extremely relevant. I think the Prime is a whole lotta bike for most things.

    Thanks.

    Word. That's the reason I moved away from the Lenz. Looking forward to a no compromises(slackish geo, 150mm rear hub, piggyback shock) short travel trail bike.
  • 03-03-2014
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Word. That's the reason I moved away from the Lenz. Looking forward to a no compromises(slackish geo, 150mm rear hub, piggyback shock) short travel trail bike.

    So wait, you no longer have the "best ever" punkass Behemoth?
  • 03-03-2014
    Colin+M
    That is correct, built up the yellow prime with it's remains.
  • 03-03-2014
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    That is correct, built up the yellow prime with it's remains.

    A bit confused: They are essentially the same travel? Prime is lower and a lot longer (and heavier).
  • 03-03-2014
    Enel
    Adding photos because bored photo cred all to Mikesee:























    And, yes, I would be just peachy with a 100mm bike for that stuff.
  • 03-03-2014
    Colin+M
    In regards to redundancy, I found a great deal on a brand new Prime frame in my favorite color so I took the leap. Moving down from a size large to a medium this time around makes a big difference as well in the right direction.

    So I figured I'd ride the Prime until the Phantom becomes available and transfer all the parts over, sans fork/shock.
  • 03-03-2014
    LyNx
    Nice stuff Enel, love that rock crawlin ;) Did you make that move in the 2nd pic, looks awfully big and tall? Very surprised you hadn't heard about the Phantom until now, very surprised.
  • 03-12-2014
    Enel
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Nice stuff Enel, love that rock crawlin ;) Did you make that move in the 2nd pic, looks awfully big and tall? Very surprised you hadn't heard about the Phantom until now, very surprised.

    Yes. I do it regularly on the Jones as well. Just takes some commitment. I have also wrecked on it.

    In retrospect I had heard about the phantom, but it was so long ago I had forgotten about it;)
  • 03-13-2014
    LyNx
    Sweet. Yeah, it's one of those commit or eat it type moves I guessed, just no experience with slickrock, so no idea of the amount of grip. Is it a straight up, pedal at it, pop the front and keep pedaling type moves or pedal, pop the front and throw the bike up? Video of the move would be very cool.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Yes. I do it regularly on the Jones as well. Just takes some commitment. I have also wrecked on it.

    In retrospect I had heard about the phantom, but it was so long ago I had forgotten about it;)

  • 03-13-2014
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Sweet. Yeah, it's one of those commit or eat it type moves I guessed, just no experience with slickrock, so no idea of the amount of grip. Is it a straight up, pedal at it, pop the front and keep pedaling type moves or pedal, pop the front and throw the bike up? Video of the move would be very cool.

    It is a timing move. you have all your speed to clear it before entering. Here is an old video on the FSR, and it looks like the move was easier back then.

    https://vimeo.com/35254331
  • 03-13-2014
    Enel
    Here is a similar, steeper up on the Jones.

    https://vimeo.com/28135776
    Momentum plus timing. No trials skills needed.

    As an aside: these moves are very stressful to the frame and it was a similar move that eventually broke my Milk Money in half.
  • 03-13-2014
    FM
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Here is a similar, steeper up on the Jones.

    Nice!
  • 03-13-2014
    LyNx
    Agreed, that one on the Jones is sick, absolute commitment. Didn't realise the first had some rocks building the angle to it from the photo you posted, had seen that video a while back when you posted it, didn't realise it was the same place. Thinking the Prime will hold up to this sort of stuff, or at least I'd put money on my pre-production holding up for sure.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Here is a similar, steeper up on the Jones. Momentum plus timing. No trials skills needed.

    As an aside: these moves are very stressful to the frame and it was a similar move that eventually broke my Milk Money in half.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Nice!

  • 03-13-2014
    Optimus
    Nice, Enel. I was up there toward the end of last September, had a blast. Your Constellation trail system is a hoot too, although not as technical as the Dells. I want to get up there again before it gets too hot.
  • 03-13-2014
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Nice, Enel. I was up there toward the end of last September, had a blast. Your Constellation trail system is a hoot too, although not as technical as the Dells. I want to get up there again before it gets too hot.

    Both the vids were from Constellation. We call it the beginner loop;0 Ping me next time you come up.
  • 03-14-2014
    LyNx
    Anyone looking for a Medium PRIME? Jenson is practically giving you the rest of the build for $500-600 more than you can normally get the frame for Banshee Prime Comp Bike 2013 > Complete Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop
  • 03-14-2014
    Optimus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Both the vids were from Constellation. We call it the beginner loop;0 Ping me next time you come up.

    I was thinking Dells, didn't recognize it from Constellation. I rode a loop counter clockwise around most of the outside of Constellation, but once I started heading back toward the TH I kinda shot down the center. Spent a day farting around in the Dells too. It's riding that is definitely worth the driving time it takes to get there from the valley.
  • 03-14-2014
    G_g
    Has anyone ridden a Manitou ISX 6 on the prime?

    I have tried a coil again, this time a CCDB on the prime, and at least for my weight and riding style, the coil shock and large volume air are not performing well, blowing through the travel.
    From what i can see, the manitou has adjustable air volume, as well as 2 air pressures (a lot like a fox dhx air), but instead of propedal I can tinker with 2 compressions. Any feedback? Save my money for a Monarch Plus?
    I have a big bike for the lift days, so the prime has to be able to be ridden on full day enduro rides, or even the odd 40-80km marathon; therefore I'd like to keep a lightweight shock, but maintaining performance to stick with people on 160mm 26er. I find the ctd awesome at climbing, but has very low small bump sensitivity, blows through mid travel very fast and rebound isn't consistent... I'm trying to fix all those by changing shock.

    Also, has anyone gone from a Marzo 44 Micro Air Ti (those chainlove ones) to a pike? Worth it?
  • 03-14-2014
    Colin+M
    In regards to the Marz to Pike, totally worth it. The difference in stiffness is night and day, not to mention the actual suspension improvements.
  • 03-14-2014
    FM
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    In regards to the Marz to Pike, totally worth it. The difference in stiffness is night and day, not to mention the actual suspension improvements.

    Totally agree. Never quite got on with the TST damper.

    In back- I think getting the right tune is more critical than anything else. The Elka that felt awesome on my rune, didn't feel very good on the Prime due to the different leverage ratio (with a different spring of course). In my experience the Prime feels best with very light compression damping, since it has a low leverage ratio. Of course that also depends on rider weight.
  • 03-14-2014
    G_g
    Main problem is fork upgrade is a lot more expensive than getting a used rear shock. I can't seem to find used pikes, due to being so recent. And they aren't cheap either, nor can I easily sell the marzo to make up for the cost.
    The removal of foam rings and cutting a spacer is what I'll probably do to the 44, and try to solve the rear first. I am by no means unhappy with the 44, I like it a lot more than the rear CTD for sure
  • 03-14-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Just saw a Pike in the MTBR classifieds a little while ago. (Not mine) Didn't even look at the price, but you might want to take a look.
  • 03-15-2014
    jonshonda
    Anyone have opinions on Manitou Tower PRO 140mm vs. Pike?
  • 03-15-2014
    LyNx
    No personal experience comparing those two, but I did have a Minute 120mm w/ 20mm TA and then F34 and now Trace and the difference between the Minute and the 34mm stanchions forks is definitely noticeable, even at my paltry ready to ride weight of about 180lbs. Will say that the Minute only had a straight steerer and a tapered steerer will help with stiffening things up, but where I could easily and clearly see the difference was in For/Aft flex, def less on the 34mm stanchions.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Anyone have opinions on Manitou Tower PRO 140mm vs. Pike?

  • 03-15-2014
    muzzanic
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Anyone have opinions on Manitou Tower PRO 140mm vs. Pike?

    Yes, Well kind of.

    The Manitou Tower Pro 140mm fork isn't a bad fork & works quite well compered to some of the forks that have been out there.

    I have done a bit of ridding on my friends Rip9 with a Tower Pro 140 on it, Although it isn't life changing it isn't that bad either, A little flexy & lacking some bump compliance.

    I have the X Fusion Trace 140 on 1 of my bikes & 140mm Pike on another.

    The X Fusion is quite a bike step up from the Tower Pro in both the Stiffness & bump compliance, The pike is another step again.

    If you can afford the Pike by it, It's a great fork.

    But don't try to convince yourself that the cheaper & lesser fork is as good, It just isn't.
  • 03-16-2014
    jonshonda
    Thanks for the feedback!! I love the Tower PRO 120mm on my N9, but have not tried anything else. I can understand the opinion about the difference in stiffness between the two forks, but reserve my thoughts on the bump compliance of the PRO.

    PRO's are going for $250 right now, which is 1/4 the price of the pike.
  • 03-16-2014
    muzzanic
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Thanks for the feedback!! I love the Tower PRO 120mm on my N9, but have not tried anything else. I can understand the opinion about the difference in stiffness between the two forks, but reserve my thoughts on the bump compliance of the PRO.

    PRO's are going for $250 right now, which is 1/4 the price of the pike.

    That is a good deal for sure.

    However when you have ridden the same bike, with the same setup & tried 3 or different forks on it, It highlights just how important the fork is to the overall fun & just how hard you can ride the bike.

    No one likes spending more than they have to, But in most cases you get what you pay for.

    Best fork for your bike IMO is the Pike, Best fork for the price, X Fusion

    just my 2 c
  • 03-16-2014
    FM
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    However when you have ridden the same bike, with the same setup & tried 3 or different forks on it, It highlights just how important the fork is to the overall fun & just how hard you can ride the bike.

    Totally agreed. as much as I HATE spending $7-800 on a fork, forks are the last place I would look to save money on a build. Especially on the Prime, the frame is so capable, the fork easily ends up being the limiting factor (other than us riders LOL)

    If I was on a tight budget I'd got with a used Fox 34 with a tapered steerer and have it serviced if needed. And I'd save money on drivetrain, pedals, rear shock or wheels if the fork was a stretch.

    That said, I haven't ridden an x-fusion or a manitou. I did bump my Pike up to 160mm today, though!
    :cool:
  • 03-17-2014
    LyNx
    Agree with FM and Muzz, the fork, especially on a bike like the Prime and especially for someone your size, is not the place to skimp. As FM suggested, look for a used F34, there must be loads out there with everyone switching to the Pike, or go for a new Trace.
  • 03-17-2014
    Optimus
    As far as the F34 goes, it's plenty stout enough, and the ride control was just fine until RS released the Pike. When I ebayed my F34 it sold for $600 and only had maybe 10 rides on it, virtually new yet.
  • 03-17-2014
    FM
    1 Attachment(s)
    Yep a well-used one can be had for $400....

    On another note, I'm still digging this photo!
  • 03-17-2014
    jonshonda
    That is a nice pic!!

    I know it's really not the place for it, but the F34 can handle my 250ish (hope to be below 220# sooner than later) girth w/o a problem. And by "hanlde", I mean not be spikey or loose performance because of the weight.
  • 03-17-2014
    AOK
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread
    Finally pulled the trigger on a new shock. Installed my new Vector air HLR on the Prime tonight. Now I just need some good weather to go riding in.
  • 03-17-2014
    Colin+M
    Let me know how you like it, I'm tempted to swap the DBair out for it since I already have one sitting on my bench.
  • 03-18-2014
    dothecrux
    Here's my 2012 XL:
    Revelation RCT3 (may invest in Fox 34 if the forks show not to match the frames studiness), Black Flag Pro wheels, XT drivetrain (Zee RD), Formula The One brakes, Thomson hardware, RF Atlas 780mm bars.
    Tires are Rocket Rons for damp and muddy danish forests, Ardent 2.4s for riding rocks in the Alps. Reverb will be mounted for those trips as well.



  • 03-18-2014
    LyNx
    Listen, I now you feel bad having that shock just sitting there, not being used, send it down to me and I'll test it for you while you wait for winter to end and while I wait for the Phantom to become available :D
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Finally pulled the trigger on a new shock. Installed my new Vector air HLR on the Prime tonight. Now I just need some good weather to go riding in.

    Really don't understand when people say stuff like this, have a shock sitting there, but prefer to hear what someone else thinks :out: Everyone is different and has different likes and dis-likes, so while AOK may like it, he may like different stuff to you. Personally I'd just throw it on there and have a go myself, that way I know what it's like.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Let me know how you like it, I'm tempted to swap the DBair out for it since I already have one sitting on my bench.