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  1. #1101
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    How do you like the XF vector?

  2. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    How do you like the XF vector?
    I like it, HUGE upgrade over the Float, but that's no surprise. I'm still not sold on air rear shocks though, I haven't been on one yet that's had me saying YES! So, I've ordered the coil sprung HLR. Can't wait to see how the Prime rides with that.

  3. #1103
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    How do you like the XF vector?
    Me? I'm using an app/tablet, so I may be missing context. But it's just me and Sane Fred who have posted about them, IIRC, so I'll field it.

    I like it a lot. My Prime is only my second suspended frame, so I'm far from experienced or expert, but the change from the DHX-A was dramatic. The DHX-A suffered from the usual complaints- mid stroke wallowing. To get full travel on 4' to flat, I was running 40% sag. That seemed excessive.

    The Vector HLR has a few processes for you to work through, but not as many as a Cane Creek. I have read that X-Fusion offers some tuning options at time of sale, but I bought mine stock. No experience there. On my 3rd ride, I was on a steep, rubble strewn washed out double track, and the rear wheel just tracked through it. I had never felt anything like that before. I still remember the feeling. It was like the first time I had a Fonseca 40-year old tawny, after only having had cheap port before that. "Oh...! THAT's what it's supposed to be like!"

    There are a lot of interesting options in piggyback air shocks these days, even beyond last spring. But, I think the Vector is a solid, well-priced, and somewhat overlooked option. I don't see anything that makes me consider changing my shock.

  4. #1104
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    Thanks for the response. I have no complaints with my 02rcx. I can only imagine the vector air would only add to it.

  5. #1105
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    Put my xl prime together last night and it came in at 32.5 lbs. . .

    I have some XT brakes w/ice tech rotors (180f, 160r) coming and a carbon handlebar to replace my 385gm bar. Still think it's gonna be over 31lbs. The only other cost effective place I can save weight is on my tires, but I need wide tires for the sand in the area.

    My previous bike was a 29.8 lb Transition Trans am hardtail, which I was able to break some hill climbing-strava records on (cause the pros near here must not be using strava). Hopefully this beast will climb as well as all the reviews claim, and allow me to ride more of the rocky-gnarly stuff at the nearby resort...
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
    Ride Mammoth, Tahoe & Vegas

    PLEASE GIVE ME NEGATIVE REP!

  6. #1106
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    I build my bikes as light as I can but stop short of putting to light a wheel set or tires to do the job the bike was meant for.

    Don't try to hard chasing weight on a bike like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    Put my xl prime together last night and it came in at 32.5 lbs. . .

    I have some XT brakes w/ice tech rotors (180f, 160r) coming and a carbon handlebar to replace my 385gm bar. Still think it's gonna be over 31lbs. The only other cost effective place I can save weight is on my tires, but I need wide tires for the sand in the area.

    My previous bike was a 29.8 lb Transition Trans am hardtail, which I was able to break some hill climbing-strava records on (cause the pros near here must not be using strava). Hopefully this beast will climb as well as all the reviews claim, and allow me to ride more of the rocky-gnarly stuff at the nearby resort...
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  7. #1107
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    I want to use the bike as it's intended and I want to be able to bomb down hill effectively, but it would be nice if riding up hill was as easy as possible!

    I don't think it will be too great of an issue since it just means I'll be in that much better shape.

    I do wish I would have gone with the stans arch wheels instead of the flow ex, would have saved 3/4 of a lb-all rotational weight! I actually see myself putting the purgatory UST tire I have back on this summer since it seems to help on the gravel over hardpack at mammoth, but that means a good half a pound more than the Ardent EXO.

    At least I don't have to worry about this bike breaking in the next couple of years, that will be my mantra as my lungs and thighs are dying.
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
    Ride Mammoth, Tahoe & Vegas

    PLEASE GIVE ME NEGATIVE REP!

  8. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    I want to use the bike as it's intended and I want to be able to bomb down hill effectively, but it would be nice if riding up hill was as easy as possible!

    I don't think it will be too great of an issue since it just means I'll be in that much better shape.

    I do wish I would have gone with the stans arch wheels instead of the flow ex, would have saved 3/4 of a lb-all rotational weight! I actually see myself putting the purgatory UST tire I have back on this summer since it seems to help on the gravel over hardpack at mammoth, but that means a good half a pound more than the Ardent EXO.

    At least I don't have to worry about this bike breaking in the next couple of years, that will be my mantra as my lungs and thighs are dying.
    IMO if you are thinking you should have gone Arch EX then you are on the wrong bike.

    That said, I think if you buy a bike like the prime, You should have a couple of wheel options anyway.

    I have a couple of sets of Arch EX's & they just don't give you the nice solid feel of a Flow or Flow EX.

    Save up for some Light Bike carbon rims & get the light & stiff feel from your wheel set.
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  9. #1109
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    Well that's good to hear that the flow ex has more upsides than just durability. I wish I could ridey bike! Maybe a butt cold night ride? Otherwise it'll be over a week wait!
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
    Ride Mammoth, Tahoe & Vegas

    PLEASE GIVE ME NEGATIVE REP!

  10. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    IMO if you are thinking you should have gone Arch EX then you are on the wrong bike.
    I agree with this. The Prime is a great climber. But it's not a lightweight XC/trail frame.

  11. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    Well that's good to hear that the flow ex has more upsides than just durability. I wish I could ridey bike! Maybe a butt cold night ride? Otherwise it'll be over a week wait!
    I still do about 70% of my ridding at night, I love the dark & it makes ridding time easier to find
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  12. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    IMO if you are thinking you should have gone Arch EX then you are on the wrong bike.
    Agreed! Put another way....if you go lighter than flows, you will inevitably feel the wheels flex while the frame holds true- not good. Carbon rims can get you even more stiffness, at that same weight. But I don't think you can save much weight without undermining the frame, in terms of stiffness.

    I think I can get my medium prime down below 31lbs without compromise, but I'm 175lbs and thats with a 1x drivetrain- so 32 for an XL is totally reasonable.

    I have ridden well-reviewed AM 29'ers, including carbon ones, and easily flexed the tires into the seat/chain stays while cornering. You won't have that problem with the prime and flows.

  13. #1113
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    Absolutely agree, Prime is definitely a Flow kind of bike, anything lighter/narrower and you really are neutering it. FYI, my pre-production XL weighed in just a shade over 34lbs with full XT build, Flow/Pro2 wheels and pedals, so you're right at around 32.5lbs with the production frame. Don't let the weight discourage you, it climbs like a goat (tweaks were made to production, so is even better) and as you say, you will get stronger because of it and when you point it down, there is no stopping it, just hold on tight As FM said, stiff as all get out, you will hold lines in the chunk like you've never done before, it will inspire you to want to try/do more, be careful and do not let it lead you too far out of your comfort zone to quickly
    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    IMO if you are thinking you should have gone Arch EX then you are on the wrong bike.
    Save up for some Light Bike carbon rims & get the light & stiff feel from your wheel set.
    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I agree with this. The Prime is a great climber. But it's not a lightweight XC/trail frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I think I can get my medium prime down below 31lbs without compromise, but I'm 175lbs and thats with a 1x drivetrain- so 32 for an XL is totally reasonable.

    I have ridden well-reviewed AM 29'ers, including carbon ones, and easily flexed the tires into the seat/chain stays while cornering. You won't have that problem with the prime and flows.
    Absolutely agree. Night riding down here means cooler rides and makes old trails you're too familiar with new again, just make sure and get yourself a good bar and helmet light and you're set.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzanic
    I still do about 70% of my ridding at night, I love the dark & it makes ridding time easier to find
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  14. #1114
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    Cool, thanks guys, I have another question: how much drop do you guys have from saddle to handlebars? I have a ton of spacers under the stem and a riser but still have 3 or so inches of drop (when I'm not on the bike). The bike feels like a monster truck though, I road laps in my front yard yesterday and I could plow over almost anything 1/4 of wheel height.

    I'm definately going for a night ride tonight, last night I had to make dinner for guests.
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
    Ride Mammoth, Tahoe & Vegas

    PLEASE GIVE ME NEGATIVE REP!

  15. #1115
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    I have one 5mm spacer under my stem and when my Reverb is all the way down, the saddle and bars are roughly the same height.

  16. #1116
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    A wheel/rim question(s)... Amongst other things.

    I've been following this build thread as well as anything I can find elsewhere since I've decided that the Banshee Prime is going to be my next bike.
    I'm currently in the planning stages of my build.
    Specifically I'm looking at wheels/rims now. I've spent the last 2 weeks reading through the almost 5000 posts of the (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rim thread in the 29er Components forum. I've also seen the recent posts in this thread relating to the carbon rims from Light Bicycle.

    My question/concern is whether these rims will stand up to the abuse that I will deliver. I've seen pics of FM riding his Prime on the same/similar terrain and features/stunts that I ride but he looks to be half my size. I'm 6'6" and 245ish geared up. If I remember correctly FM and few others with the Prime are riding the Light Bicycle carbon rims as well.

    I'm a bit of a smashy rider. I'm by no means a hack but I don't always choose the smoothest line. I choose the line that I feel will get me to where I need to be. I also don't shy away from drops, jumps or steep gnarl.

    I've been riding a Kona Honzo for the past 2 seasons here in Whistler and in the surrounding areas - Squamish and Pemberton. I've gone through quite a few freehubs and rims in those 2 seasons. I realize that the Honzo is an HT and the rear wheel/rim takes way more abuse than a FS bike. But my other bikes (26") past and present have been FS and I've had to replace rear rims and freehubs somewhat regularly as well.

    My tentative build (depending on finances):

    Frame: XL Prime - red or ano black

    Shock: X-Fusion Vector or CCDBa-CS (or whatever the choices are in my region when buying the bike)

    Fork: RS Pike 140 or 150 or X-Fusion Trace

    Drivetrain: SRAM - X9 or XO 2x10 with carbon cranks possibly.

    Bars, Stem, Saddle, Pedals: Chromag - bars and stem first choice would be the new BZA 780mm carbon bars and BZA-35 stem, Trailmaster LTD or Moon saddle, Scarab pedals (clipless choice is the new CB Mallet DH pedals)

    Seatpost: either a Stealth Reverb 150mm or a KS Lev 150mm

    Wheels: custom build? - Light Bicycle wide carbon rims (35mm outer width with the extra layers of carbon for strength). I'm looking at the 12x150mm axle spacing option as that would be the burlier build for wheels. My concern is that if I smash the rear wheel I'm limited in quick replacement options while the main wheel gets repaired or replaced. This is why I'm also considering 12x142mm rear spacing.
    I guess I could just order the 142mm dropouts in case I need them.
    The hubs that I've been looking at are the DTSwiss 240s because of their star ratchet freehub system.
    Other wheels I've looking at have been Industry 9 Gravity 29 wheelsets and the eThirteen TRS Enduro 29 wheelset.
    I've been running the SunRinglé Charger Pro wheelset on my Honzo for the past 2 seasons but they are flexy under me and have been through warranty 3 times now for freehub issues.

    Keep posting the action pics. It keeps my stoke and drive alive for this bike!


    TL;DR - I'm a tall heavy guy who rides very hard. Looking to be convinced that the cheap chinese carbon 29er rims will last under me riding in the Whistler region. Opinions welcome on my build choices.

  17. #1117
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    I ride both 240s and e*thirteen hubs, mine are LG1+. The DT's are on my Paradox, the LG1+'s are on my Prime. I've got several years on my DT's, little over 1 year on my e*thirteens. I like them both. The e*thirteen doesn't roll quite as easy as the 240s, but the free hub engagement is every bit as good, IMO, although the LG uses pawls. I really don't prefer one over the other, I'd take either.

  18. #1118
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    @Optimus,
    The reason I've been looking at the 240s hubs with the star ratchet freehub is because all of my freehub failures have been with the freehub cracking/breaking where the pawls sit in the freehub.
    All of my research and question asking has led me to believe that the star ratchet freehub will last a lot longer under my weight and power delivery.

    I know that quicker engaging hubs reduces my failure rate but not by much. The few quicker engagement hubs I've had only lasted a month and half to 2 months longer.
    On average I go through 2 freehubs in a season no matter the bike or wheelset. I'm hoping that if I spend the $$ on the 240s hubs it will substantially reduce my replacement cycle.

    I'm a mtb coach so I spend a lot of time on my bike whether it's at work or on my days off. I probably ride about 150+ days in a season. Because of this and because I'm tall and heavy all my bike parts need to be burly.

  19. #1119
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    Derby rims only for you IMO.

    The LB rims already have you worried & that will slow you down.
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  20. #1120
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    Rideeverything, I have had zero issues with my 240's. I'm 205ish fully geared, riding lots of high speed chunk and brutal little climbs, I tend to mash. The 36 tooth star ratchet is very nice, very positive engagement. Also, low maintenance.

  21. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Derby rims only for you IMO.

    The LB rims already have you worried & that will slow you down.
    I have looked at the Derby rims but they add more to my final cost. However, I could just save more money before purchase so that I don't have to spend more in the future with replacements.

    That being said my rear Charger Pro wheel is not long for this world and up until I put my Honzo away for the snowboard I was charging it hard.
    Although, on my last ride I did hold back and not send one of the drops on a new trail I was riding. But there were a few things other than just my rear wheel that had me holding back.

    But, yes, I understand what you're saying.

  22. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    I have looked at the Derby rims but they add more to my final cost. However, I could just save more money before purchase so that I don't have to spend more in the future with replacements.

    That being said my rear Charger Pro wheel is not long for this world and up until I put my Honzo away for the snowboard I was charging it hard.
    Although, on my last ride I did hold back and not send one of the drops on a new trail I was riding. But there were a few things other than just my rear wheel that had me holding back.

    But, yes, I understand what you're saying.
    You will save money with the derby rims, Or you could go LB & then derby if you would rather spend more money.

    Look at your post that says your weight, height & riding style.

    You need a deep section rim.
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  23. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    If I remember correctly FM and few others with the Prime are riding the Light Bicycle carbon rims as well.
    No, FM is riding Eastons that he bought used, and has had good experience with those. He's a lighter dude; lighter than you and I. Muzzanic is right - if you're going to do carbon, go Derby at the start and save yourself the money and time. I'm 225, and if/when I make the switch to carbon that's the only way I'm going to go. Despite FM's accolades, I don't want a system wheel, and mikesee seems happy with the Derbys too.

    I have been really impressed with MTX-33s, but they don't do tubeless and they aren't light. Due to repeated hub failure (see below) I'm on my mid-weight wheelset which is Stan's FR rims, and they have been bomber for years, under 3 frames to date. I think the Flow EX is roughly comparable, although perhaps slightly less robust.

    Good build spec. My random thoughts:

    150mm rear. You're bigger than I am, riding bigger trails. 150mm.

    I haven't used 240s, but I have ridden the hell out of 340s and 440s, and am on a 350 now, and been really impressed with the longevity. I guess I haven't compared them to a really high-engagement hub like a King or I9, but I haven't really felt the lack. I ride rock gardens too, but I suppose it's what you know. I'll have my other wheel built around a Hadley this winter, after I ditch the Hope.

    I have the X-Fusion. I really like it. My buddy has gone through the honeymoon with his CCDBA (on a Chilcotin) and I've seen similar sentiments on the Knolly forum, too. But the shock has a lot of fans, more than detractors. Since you can get the Prime direct with a CCDBA it changes the calculus a bit, but the X-Fusion is a lot cheaper when buying just a shock.

    Go 150 on the fork. I'd recommend the Pike, based on word-of-mouth. I don't know anything about the X-Fusion fork, and while I'm a fan of my shock, the word I've heard is that the difference in stiffness between the 34 and Pike is akin to the difference between the 32 and the 34.

    Chromag cockpit: me too. Stem, bar, saddle. I love the Lynx DT. I have had them on all my bikes for the last 3 years, and I have a couple spares in my parts bin. One new, one torn up.

    I went 2x10 with X9 mostly due to cost. I'd have been happy with the carbon X0 crank, but I was shaving dollars here and there. I do like the spider(less) options the SRAM cranks offer.

    I haven't used a KS, but after 2 seasons on a Reverb, that's what I'd buy if I were doing it again. My Reverb was rebuilt in March and it needs it again.

    Hope some of that helps.
    Last edited by evasive; 12-21-2013 at 12:38 AM. Reason: clarification

  24. #1124
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    Have to agree with Muzz on this one. If you want some peace of mind and the knowledge that you've got good support and a good rim, I wouldn't trust any of those Chinese rims that direct, definitely go for the Derby's and get some proper CS. Not worth saving a few hundred to have that nagging worry in the back of your mind all the time. Personally I'd have to win the lottery to ride carbon rims with our rocks down here, just don't trust them and what could happen failure wise from a good contact/scratch with the coral, I can see the damage an alu rims takes and my Stans Flows have held up well to them, but I'm only 175-185lbs geared, don't leave the ground much, fairly finesse rider, but do love my nasty, rocky chunk. Just built up some WTB i25 ST rims, will see how they hold up compared to my 5 year old Flows - definitely cheaper and feel very burly, will be going on my rigid mainly, but will also throw them on the Prime to test.

    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Derby rims only for you IMO.
    The LB rims already have you worried & that will slow you down.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  25. #1125
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    I liked my i23's better than Flow's, but wanted wider. I put on the Flow EX's because the i25's weren't available yet, I'm thinking about rebuilding into some i25's. IMO, the EX's are plenty strong enough, but the i23's at least were a bit thicker material than Flow's. I expect the i25's to be similarly thicker. The recent posts here about carbon rims got me to thinking, but like you LyNx, I'm concerned about rocks/damage. Even with DT being a bit pricey, I would not hesitate an instant with buying another 240's, solid performance and reliability, with my usage. I only put the e*thirteen's on my Prime because they were a new release from The Hive and I wanted to try something different from the masses.

  26. #1126
    FM
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    Hey RideEverything!

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    No, FM is riding Eastons that he bought used, and has had good experience with those. Despite FM's accolades, I don't want a system wheel, and mikesee seems happy with the Derbys too.
    Yes, true... I bought my Haven Carbon 29's used and have 2 seasons on them (so 3 seasons total). I weigh 175. The original hub guts sucked, but by now I've replaced the F&R guts 3x and invested less than $50. I like that their hubs are compatible with all standards, parts are dirt cheap, and I have all the available axles now. My only complaint is that you have to be careful who you deal with at Easton CS, I've had two botched parts orders when I talked to the softball dept!

    Regarding system wheels, they have some pros. I have yet to ride a "standard" wheelset that's as stiff or light as system wheels bult up with comparable rims. The system wheels allow engineered weight savings, and a big pro is that many use the same spoke length F&R, R&L.

    First ride on carbon wheels was eye-opening for me. The weight difference is negligible, but the difference in stiffness can be compared to going from QR to thru-axle. So I think 150mm rear is an optional, but I'd definitely recommend carbon rims.

    As much as I like the Havens, I'd go Derby's if I were you.

    Otherwise your build looks good. I would definitely recommend the 150mm Pike, for both the travel and the stiffness. And I would also vote for the Kindhock Lev, 150mm drop option! 150mm drop is so nice for the uber-steeps, which I know you have plenty of! I have so many reverb horror stories, no need to go there.

    You will love the Prime, it's perfect for sea-to-sky trail action!

  27. #1127
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    Thanks for the replies.

    I only briefly looked at Derby rims but I'll put the research hat on and dig deeper.
    My main reason for looking at carbon rims is for the strength and stiffness factor. Being that I'm large anything that can flex will flex on my bike.
    I'm not worried about system wheels. I've had the Mavic Crossmax SX wheels for several years now. I've gone through a few freehubs and broken a few spokes but never had an issue replacing them. Although I do live in the centre of the universe for all things mountain bike.

    I've had a Reverb for the last 3 seasons and only have had one issue in that entire time. I picked up a Lev 150 in the middle of this past summer and on my last ride this season it stopped working. I won't jump on the hate wagon against KS. I've sent it off for warranty and hopefully it'll run for a long time after that.
    I like both the Lev and the Reverb. I'm only looking at the Stealth Reverb because it comes in a 150mm travel adjust.

    I definitely like the look of the X-Fusion shocks. Either the Vector Air or the O2. Everything I've read about them has been positive.
    I'm definitely a set and forget kind of guy and I think the X-Fusion shocks would be those kind of shocks.
    The bike nerd in me very much likes the CCDBa but I think the glamour might wear off quickly if it takes too long to set up properly. The other negative is the price.

  28. #1128
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    The Derby is a wide & stiff/strong, carbon rim.


    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Thanks for the replies.

    I only briefly looked at Derby rims but I'll put the research hat on and dig deeper.
    My main reason for looking at carbon rims is for the strength and stiffness factor. Being that I'm large anything that can flex will flex on my bike.
    I'm not worried about system wheels. I've had the Mavic Crossmax SX wheels for several years now. I've gone through a few freehubs and broken a few spokes but never had an issue replacing them. Although I do live in the centre of the universe for all things mountain bike.

    I've had a Reverb for the last 3 seasons and only have had one issue in that entire time. I picked up a Lev 150 in the middle of this past summer and on my last ride this season it stopped working. I won't jump on the hate wagon against KS. I've sent it off for warranty and hopefully it'll run for a long time after that.
    I like both the Lev and the Reverb. I'm only looking at the Stealth Reverb because it comes in a 150mm travel adjust.

    I definitely like the look of the X-Fusion shocks. Either the Vector Air or the O2. Everything I've read about them has been positive.
    I'm definitely a set and forget kind of guy and I think the X-Fusion shocks would be those kind of shocks.
    The bike nerd in me very much likes the CCDBa but I think the glamour might wear off quickly if it takes too long to set up properly. The other negative is the price.
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  29. #1129
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    I don't have any concerns about system wheels. I just prefer to have my choice of hubs and rims and then have the wheels built by someone I know and trust.

  30. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    The Derby is a wide & stiff/strong, carbon rim.
    Also built in China. Not saying that is good or bad, just saying. But, built to Derby specs. Then again, what really is built in America anymore, and why would that necessarily be any better? I'm talking quality, not patriotism or national financial security. The reviews that I read said that there was only one Derby failure reported to date, and that was from a severe impact. I found no mention of how many Derby rims were out on the trails.

  31. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Also built in China. Not saying that is good or bad, just saying. But, built to Derby specs. Then again, what really is built in America anymore, and why would that necessarily be any better? I'm talking quality, not patriotism or national financial security. The reviews that I read said that there was only one Derby failure reported to date, and that was from a severe impact. I found no mention of how many Derby rims were out on the trails.
    I'm not trying to knock LB rims, I have had 2 sets built onto I9 hubs & they are both going strong.

    I also have a set of Reynolds carbon Rims on I9 Torch hubs ( I9 Trail Carbon 32 ) & like the deeper section rim when hitting things hard.

    I really like the deep section carbon rims like Reynolds, Derby & Enve.

    My next sets of wheels will be Derby/ I9 Torch & I9 Torch Tail 32 ( Alloy ) for my wife ( she doesn't want carbon )

    I'm selling up all my I9 Enduro hub wheels & replacing them with the I9 Torch options
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  32. #1132
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    I' m going to buy a RS PIKE 150 for my Prime.
    I can get either 51mm or the 46mm offset; Is anybody using a 51mm offset with benefits or this feature is negligible.

    Keith.. what'd you suggest?

  33. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    I' m going to buy a RS PIKE 150 for my Prime.
    I can get either 51mm or the 46mm offset; Is anybody using a 51mm offset with benefits or this feature is negligible.

    Keith.. what'd you suggest?
    I had a 140mm 46mm offset on for a short while, then switched up to a 150mm 51mm offset. I felt no difference with the change in offset, but an extra 10mm of travel never hurts. Then again, when I changed forks, I also went from a 2.3 Butcher to a 2.5 DHF. That tire change may have masked some of the difference in offset. Theoretically, the 51mm is the better choice.

  34. #1134
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    some say 51 mm offset make difference, other say they don't feel any...
    I'm not that sensible.... but theory claim 51mm would be and advantage in terms of maneuverability, and make 29er closer to 26er for nimbleness.

  35. #1135
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    some say 51 mm offset make difference, other say they don't feel any...
    I'm not that sensible.... but theory claim 51mm would be and advantage in terms of maneuverability, and make 29er closer to 26er for nimbleness.
    You'll be completely happy with either 140mm or 150, 46mm offset or 51. I had a Pivot Firebird that to me felt less nimble than my Prime, but I never really worry how my Prime feels compared to anything else. I just know that my Prime, as I've spec'd it out, is hands down the best bike that I have ever owned. There is never a time that I wish for "more" bike. It climbs remarkably, it descends through chunk amazingly, it handles tight and twisties with ease, it low gear rock crawls like it is velcro, it hi speed handles with complete confidence. It's rock solid, it's tough, for my use it is perfect.

  36. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    You'll be completely happy with either 140mm or 150, 46mm offset or 51. I had a Pivot Firebird that to me felt less nimble than my Prime, but I never really worry how my Prime feels compared to anything else. I just know that my Prime, as I've spec'd it out, is hands down the best bike that I have ever owned. There is never a time that I wish for "more" bike. It climbs remarkably, it descends through chunk amazingly, it handles tight and twisties with ease, it low gear rock crawls like it is velcro, it hi speed handles with complete confidence. It's rock solid, it's tough, for my use it is perfect.
    I know I'be happy with any variation of PIKE, otherwise I'm coming from 7 months on my PRIME whit a REVELATION and my face when riding was always like this ...but some days ago I tried a pike at a bike shop and has been love at first sight.
    I didn't mean to compare PRIME with anything else ( I really think is one of a kind) but I just wanted to know what differences I'd have found picking one offset or the other.

  37. #1137
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    Not scientific at all, but I owned a rode a Paradox for over 1.5 years before I got my Prime, I figured that the extra 3"+ WB difference would make a huge difference in handling/feel more sluggish, I was wrong. While the 3"+ definitely makes it harder to get around tight corner lined with rocks or close trees/bush, the steering itself doesn't feel much slower than the Paradox and I attribute this to running the 51mm offset F34-140mm as compared to the 46mm offset Minute 120mm on the Paradox. Now don't get me wrong, compared to my Paradox, overall the Prime feels like a tank, but it is not a handful like one would expect a bike with a 3" longer WB and 5-6lbs heavier.

    I'd opt for the 51mm offset, and maybe get a tad livelier handling than get the 46mm if you can find one that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    some say 51 mm offset make difference, other say they don't feel any...
    I'm not that sensible.... but theory claim 51mm would be and advantage in terms of maneuverability, and make 29er closer to 26er for nimbleness.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  38. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I'd opt for the 51mm offset, and maybe get a tad livelier handling than get the 46mm if you can find one that is.
    As would I, in fact, I did. But if one can't be found, I wouldn't hesitate to put on the 46mm, or if a 150mm can't be found I also wouldn't hesitate to put on the 140. I don't doubt the numbers involved with offset and rake and handling, but I think that a rider would have to be really in tune to notice a difference, an then once you were used to what you had you would forget all about it. When I took my 140mm 46mm off my Prime and put it on my Paradox, at first it felt very strange compared to the 120mm F34 Talas that I took off. In fact, at first I almost didn't like it. Now, after a few rides, I'm setting new PR's all over the place, climbing and descending. I've been riding it so hard that I even put 2.3 Minions on it instead of the lighter tires that I had planned. It is a smooth transition from Prime to Paradox and back. My Paradox is pretty much just a lighter rougher riding version of my Prime, a "tank lite".

  39. #1139
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    Hi, hello, welcome to my world Sadly this is me, I can feel the difference in geometry when switching from 2.25" rear/2.4" front to matching 2.4" F&R In fact just did this when I threw the WTB i25 ST rimmed wheels onto the Prime to test them - had set it in the slack setting and it had been riding pretty good running a 2.25" Smorgasbord rear/2.4" Chunky Monkey front, then I put on the WTB wheels with 2.4" Ardent rear/2.4" Chunky Monkey front and guess I was more trying to evaluate the wheels and didn't notice as much the nice geo tweak it made running balanced 2.4" tyres, but when I swapped back to the Primes normal wheels with 2.25" R/2.4" it felt so choppered out in comparison I thought the shock needed air. Had noticed that despite being in the slack setting it was still climbing amazing, but didn't quite put it all together till the switch back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    As would I, in fact, I did. But if one can't be found, I wouldn't hesitate to put on the 46mm, or if a 150mm can't be found I also wouldn't hesitate to put on the 140. I don't doubt the numbers involved with offset and rake and handling, but I think that a rider would have to be really in tune to notice a difference, an then once you were used to what you had you would forget all about it. When I took my 140mm 46mm off my Prime and put it on my Paradox, at first it felt very strange compared to the 120mm F34 Talas that I took off. In fact, at first I almost didn't like it. Now, after a few rides, I'm setting new PR's all over the place, climbing and descending. I've been riding it so hard that I even put 2.3 Minions on it instead of the lighter tires that I had planned. It is a smooth transition from Prime to Paradox and back. My Paradox is pretty much just a lighter rougher riding version of my Prime, a "tank lite".
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  40. #1140
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    Fortunately, I am not quite so sensitive to suspension/rake/offset changes. But I'll tell you what bugs the daylights right out of me, if one brake lever pulls to just a slightly different point than the other. I'm constantly fussing with my brakes. The Zee's that I put on my Prime need a wrench to adjust, no tool free on those. The fact that I have to actually get a tool out to twiddle with them has me almost to the point of putting new brakes on, LOL.

  41. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Fortunately, I am not quite so sensitive to suspension/rake/offset changes. But I'll tell you what bugs the daylights right out of me, if one brake lever pulls to just a slightly different point than the other. I'm constantly fussing with my brakes. The Zee's that I put on my Prime need a wrench to adjust, no tool free on those. The fact that I have to actually get a tool out to twiddle with them has me almost to the point of putting new brakes on, LOL.
    I'm the same way. Takes me half a season to fiddle with the reach adjustment knob before finally being satisfied. Always turn them a bit out or in whenever I stop to get them right. But when I do, oh boy.
    konahonzo

  42. #1142
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    Ok thanks everybody.
    just for the sake of theory, some suggestions and the fact that I'm actually increasing A to C length from my previous Revelation, I see good reason to pick 51mm offset.
    Last edited by filbike; 12-28-2013 at 05:15 PM.

  43. #1143
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    Alright,
    I've read through the entire Derby Rims 29er thread and feel convinced that these should be the carbon rims I ride. Price-wise they are in reach compared to the big name companies and all the rider reviews I can find are very positive.

    Now I just have to decide whether or not to buy soon or wait for the bike saving finances to accumulate. Derby has them currently listed for $299 compared to the usual $379.
    Decisions, decisions!


    A few questions for those who might know:

    -Is there a big difference in wheel strength between a 142mm hub and a 150mm hub? Theoretically, yes, there is, but does anyone have any real word ride time on the two hub sizes? Do you notice a difference? I noticed a huge difference when going from the QR to 12x142 on my Honzo. Is the difference similar to that change?
    I'm okay with anecdotal evidence.

    -With the 150mm sized hub is there an issue with getting the right chainline set up on the Prime. I'll admit to not really knowing anything about this. With all the bikes I've built over the years I've just put the drivetrain together and made the adjustments so that there was minimal to no rubbing with the chain and components. I've never taken a ruler to anything to check if I had the right chainline.

    - With the Derby rims being deep, which shortens the length of the spokes needed, is there a good hub out there that has tall flanges to make the spokes even shorter?
    The reason I have been looking at the eThirteen TRS+ hubs/wheels is because of the giant flange sizes of their hubs. My hesitation in purchasing these hubs is that they aren't widely available yet and they have run-of-the-mill engagement freehubs. There aren't a lot of reviews for these hubs/wheels yet.
    I understand that shorter spokes make the wheels stronger so a deep rim and tall flanged hub should make a close to indestructible wheel?

    Currently, I'm looking at the Heavy Duty 29er 35mm Derby rims and DTSwiss 350 15x100mm/12x142or150mm hubs. I was looking at the 240s hubs but the bank account thinks it's better to go with the 350's.


    Wheels have always been the weakest point on all of the bikes I've had. I'm a giant who is heavy that rides very hard.
    With this build I'm looking to splash out a bit more so that I don't have to continually spend money fixing my wheels or having to warranty them.

  44. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    With the 150mm sized hub is there an issue with getting the right chainline set up on the Prime. I'll admit to not really knowing anything about this. With all the bikes I've built over the years I've just put the drivetrain together and made the adjustments so that there was minimal to no rubbing with the chain and components. I've never taken a ruler to anything to check if I had the right chainline.

    - With the Derby rims being deep, which shortens the length of the spokes needed, is there a good hub out there that has tall flanges to make the spokes even shorter?
    The reason I have been looking at the eThirteen TRS+ hubs/wheels is because of the giant flange sizes of their hubs. My hesitation in purchasing these hubs is that they aren't widely available yet and they have run-of-the-mill engagement freehubs. There aren't a lot of reviews for these hubs/wheels yet.
    My chainline is fine with a 150mm hub. I'm riding the LG1+ hubs, I have absolutely zero issues with the engagement with a years worth of desert abuse. I did break a rear axle sleeve, but it was a gen1 hub and e*thirteen promptly sent me out an upgrade kit with a steel sleeve which brings it to gen2 specs. I have had zero issues since.

  45. #1145
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    Can't honestly answer the 142 vs 150 question, but will point out that for most hubs it's just an end cap swap on a normal 135mm wide hub, i.e. the flanges are no further out/apart than a standard 135mm hub, a 150mm hub the flanges are moved out so that it is a dishless wheel, or it should be.

    As to any issue running a 150mm rear on the Prime with a "normal" 73mm BB? None what so ever, in fact, I run a Hope Pro2 Trials/SS 135mm rear on my Prime and it builds up dishless, run 6 cogs and the chainline is actually about as perfect as it gets. FYI, the granny cog is about the same place as where the 3-4th largest cog would be on a normal 9spd cassette on a 135mm hub.

    Can't help you with hubs, as I'm a light guy and have never had an issue with any, but your thinking of trying to find ones with hig flanges is a good one and build yourself some bomb proof wheels. If you're a heavy guy, a bit more weight for a lot less $$ isn't a bad thing, especially in the hubs as they aren't really where having weight matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    Alright, A few questions for those who might know:

    -Is there a big difference in wheel strength between a 142mm hub and a 150mm hub? Theoretically, yes, there is, but does anyone have any real word ride time on the two hub sizes? Do you notice a difference? I noticed a huge difference when going from the QR to 12x142 on my Honzo. Is the difference similar to that change?
    I'm okay with anecdotal evidence.

    -With the 150mm sized hub is there an issue with getting the right chainline set up on the Prime. I'll admit to not really knowing anything about this. With all the bikes I've built over the years I've just put the drivetrain together and made the adjustments so that there was minimal to no rubbing with the chain and components. I've never taken a ruler to anything to check if I had the right chainline.

    Wheels have always been the weakest point on all of the bikes I've had. I'm a giant who is heavy that rides very hard.
    With this build I'm looking to splash out a bit more so that I don't have to continually spend money fixing my wheels or having to warranty them.
    Last edited by LyNx; 12-29-2013 at 01:28 PM. Reason: To better explain
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  46. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Can't honestly answer the 142 vs 150 question, but will point out that for most hubs it's just an end cap swap, i.e. the flanges are no further out/apart than a standard 135mm hub, a 150mm hub the flanges are moved out so that it is a dishless wheel, or it should be.
    Maybe I'm missing something- my understanding is that there are 2 schools of 150mm hubs:
    • Ones that have the same flange spacing as a 135 hub, so there is no benefit at all.
    • Ones that do have a wider flange spacing for more equal spoke tension.

    Either way your rotor mounts sit farther off-center, so there is no way to swamp a 150mm hub to 142 or 135mm. The difference is in the hub shell, not the end caps.

    I would go 142mm, mainly just for future proofing, seems like 150mm is kind of a dying standard.

  47. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something- my understanding is that there are 2 schools of 150mm hubs:
    • Ones that have the same flange spacing as a 135 hub, so there is no benefit at all.
    • Ones that do have a wider flange spacing for more equal spoke tension.

    Either way your rotor mounts sit farther off-center, so there is no way to swamp a 150mm hub to 142 or 135mm. The difference is in the hub shell, not the end caps.

    I would go 142mm, mainly just for future proofing, seems like 150mm is kind of a dying standard.
    My LG1+ rear is substantially wider than a 135mm, plus the huge flanges, has made for a very solid rear wheel. Is 150mm dying, or was it never really that big in the first place??

  48. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Is 150mm dying, or was it never really that big in the first place??
    Ah- good point. Plus I suppose, if you're looking at DH bikes, it's actually pretty common. I had a FR bike with a 150 rear (DT hub) for a few years.

  49. #1149
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Ah- good point. Plus I suppose, if you're looking at DH bikes, it's actually pretty common. I had a FR bike with a 150 rear (DT hub) for a few years.
    The big names in hubs all offer a 150mm, so maybe it will just never be that big in "mainstream consumer mtbing". But then again, look at the 26" to 29", then out of nowhere here comes a 27.5". Who knows where the industry is headed next.

  50. #1150
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    Sorry, guess I assumed everyone would know I was talking "normal" 135mm hub conversion to 142mm with the end caps, corrected it so it makes sense now for everyone

    Little FYI, despite being the scum of the MTB world, SpecialED are the only ones who have used the 142mm standard to it's fullest potential with their 142mm+ iteration which actually sees the flanges spaced further out on the drive side, thereby adding in a less dished wheel and hence why swapping between a normal 142mm wheel and one that uses the 142mm+ you have to do quite a bit of adjustment to the RD.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something- my understanding is that there are 2 schools of 150mm hubs:
    • Ones that have the same flange spacing as a 135 hub, so there is no benefit at all.
    • Ones that do have a wider flange spacing for more equal spoke tension.

    Either way your rotor mounts sit farther off-center, so there is no way to swamp a 150mm hub to 142 or 135mm. The difference is in the hub shell, not the end caps.

    I would go 142mm, mainly just for future proofing, seems like 150mm is kind of a dying standard.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  51. #1151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    My chainline is fine with a 150mm hub. I'm riding the LG1+ hubs, I have absolutely zero issues with the engagement with a years worth of desert abuse. I did break a rear axle sleeve, but it was a gen1 hub and e*thirteen promptly sent me out an upgrade kit with a steel sleeve which brings it to gen2 specs. I have had zero issues since.
    Thanks for the heads up on the LG1+ hubs. I missed those zeroing in on the TRS+ wheelsets and hubs.

    From what I remember from your descriptions of yourself on the forums you're a tall/big guy? The reason I bring this up is that in my terrain I have straight up climbing to more or less straight down riding. If your terrain isn't like that then my results for longevity of the freehub may vary.
    I know that you've had good life out of the freehub but where I live/ride is the polar opposite to desert. I live in a temperate rain forest with rooty rocky technical trails up and down. In my years of living here I've gone through a minimum of 2 freehubs a season. The only freehubs that have lasted longer than that have been the DT Swiss 350 freehub and the Mavic Crossmax SX freehub that I was and still am running on my 170/180mm pedally freeride-park bike (it was my "one-do-all-bike" for several seasons).

    The biggest thing that draws me to the e*thirteen hubs is the size of their flanges (I'm sure there's an innuendo in that somewhere!). However, the 6 degree engagement has me worried. That amount of engagement is the "standard". That amount of dead space has me destroying freehubs. If the the freehub body is steel I'm sold.

  52. #1152
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    From what I remember from your descriptions of yourself on the forums you're a tall/big guy? The reason I bring this up is that in my terrain I have straight up climbing to more or less straight down riding. If your terrain isn't like that then my results for longevity of the freehub may vary.
    I know that you've had good life out of the freehub but where I live/ride is the polar opposite to desert. I live in a temperate rain forest with rooty rocky technical trails up and down. In my years of living here I've gone through a minimum of 2 freehubs a season. The only freehubs that have lasted longer than that have been the DT Swiss 350 freehub and the Mavic Crossmax SX freehub that I was and still am running on my 170/180mm pedally freeride-park bike (it was my "one-do-all-bike" for several seasons).

    The biggest thing that draws me to the e*thirteen hubs is the size of their flanges (I'm sure there's an innuendo in that somewhere!). However, the 6 degree engagement has me worried. That amount of engagement is the "standard". That amount of dead space has me destroying freehubs. If the the freehub body is steel I'm sold.
    6'0" tall, 210ish fully geared up for riding. I don't have the moisture to ride in that you do, but I'll bet that my technical is at least as technical as yours is. I do have though a lot of dry and dusty to contend with, which presents a different set of concerns. I personally find the 6 degrees of engage of no concern, I do my share of trials type riding and it works just fine. The free hub body is not steel.

  53. #1153
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    I went through 7 Shimano freehubs one year...never again. I went to Chris King from there and never had an issue till I sold those wheels to build up my Prime and...well...the Spank rear hub I have been using has been a nightmare...going back to CK as soon as I can afford it or I can sweet talk them into sending me some for review.

    I would love to build a Derby/Ck set of wheels for the ultimate bling...but I don't see that happening anytime soon...too damn poor...haha.

    I love the idea of the e-thirteen hubs but I hear their axle and freehub is not the strongest so I am staying away. I hear great things about the DT hubs, just if you are a heavy guy like myself stay away from the high engagement star ratchet.

    I am 250lbs and ride BC trails...so rough and wet...and hella fun.

  54. #1154
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    I went through 7 Shimano freehubs one year...never again. I went to Chris King from there and never had an issue till I sold those wheels to build up my Prime and...well...the Spank rear hub I have been using has been a nightmare...going back to CK as soon as I can afford it or I can sweet talk them into sending me some for review.

    I would love to build a Derby/Ck set of wheels for the ultimate bling...but I don't see that happening anytime soon...too damn poor...haha.

    I love the idea of the e-thirteen hubs but I hear their axle and freehub is not the strongest so I am staying away. I hear great things about the DT hubs, just if you are a heavy guy like myself stay away from the high engagement star ratchet.

    I am 250lbs and ride BC trails...so rough and wet...and hella fun.
    Thanks for your thoughts, mudpuppy.

    I have been meaning to ask you what your thoughts are on the Prime and components now that you've had more time on the bike because we are very similar in size and ride very similar terrain.

    That's too bad about the Spank freehubs that you're running. I picked up a set of the Spike Race28 wheels for my park bike and haven't had any issues at all with the freehub. The freehub body that comes with this wheelset is steel so that may be the difference between my wheels and the ones you're running.

  55. #1155
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    I love the Prime...it does everything the Rune did...but better. It's a better climber, better trail bike and I feel better in the steep and nasty stuff too. I swear I was faster at Silver Star Bike Park on my Prime than I was the Rune, at one point I got up to 70k..or at least Strava thinks so, I was railing down that mountain...lol.

    I love all the components except the wheels. Will be doing a writup/review on them soon enough. They are the Oozy wheels...front has be no issues, but man the rear hub sucks.

    People said I would want to get rid of the fox CTD shock PDQ, but it has served me well so far. I may try a Cane Creek on there if I can work out a deal just to see what the difference is...and of course report my findings to our awesome readers...lol.

    The Thomson dropper post has be amazing so far...just...wow. And the wolftooth 30t narrow/wide ring (look for review later this week) has been great...never dropped the chain, and that's without a newfangled clutch derailleur too.

    If you have any specific questions let me know.

  56. #1156
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    Mudpuppy: can you measure the chainline on your bike? I had 5 dropped chains last week, but I'm running a race face 30t. . .
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  57. #1157
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    Yeah, Unrooted. It's right at 2". I should mention that I am also running a C-guide as I hate the chainslap on the bottom of the chainstays...so that may be helping. But nothing on top...just a the ring. I am running a 36-11 cassette and older sram x9 (3ish years) derailleur.

    I also run my chain as short as possible...I could actually take out another link, but I want to put in a 42...so I am going to leave it for now.

    I should also mention that I am a few rum and cokes in...so my measurements may not be exact...but pretty damn close I would say.

  58. #1158
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    I love the idea of the e-thirteen hubs but I hear their axle and freehub is not the strongest so I am staying away.
    As I stated above, somewhere, I did break the axle sleeve in my LG1+ which was a gen1 hub. e*thirteen promptly sent me an upgraded kit to replace it with, which now meets gen2 specs. The original axle sleeve was a fairly light weight aluminum manufacture. The replacement is substantially thicker and is steel, it has been precision ground, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was heat treated or at least a nice alloy. So far, no problems. If I break this one, I'll go back to my favorite 240s, or maybe try a Hadley.

  59. #1159
    unrooted
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-image.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-image.jpg

    Still need to shorten the brake hoses. I'll also be changing the 30t ring out for a green 34t and a green one up 42t cog. I wish the colors wee closer matches, but that's the downside to buying online.
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  60. #1160
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    Man you like em bright huh, me too Looks sweet, the addition of the green ring and cog will add nicely Curious, that is a size Large frame or Medium? Have to ask as you have a crap load of post out and the dropper slammed.
    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
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    Still need to shorten the brake hoses. I'll also be changing the 30t ring out for a green 34t and a green one up 42t cog. I wish the colors wee closer matches, but that's the downside to buying online.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  61. #1161
    unrooted
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    It's an xl! I'm 6'4" tall.
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  62. #1162
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    Did you just put the post in and not set the proper height? Very curious, because if not, even if that's only a 100mm dropper, from the photo it would seem you've got inches of drop from saddle to bar.
    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    It's an xl! I'm 6'4" tall.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  63. #1163
    Chris Bling
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    Subscribed! I am currently putting together a build list for a new Prime. I can steal parts from my other bikes, but will be getting a new Pike for sure.
    The obsession of wheels fused with the passion of cycling
    Affordable Custom Wheels

  64. #1164
    unrooted
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-photo-2.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-photo-3.jpg

    Gottamn this is a fun bike! I just found some trails nearby my house, they are like mini DH runs with really fun jumps.

    Here's my spec list:

    2013 Banshee Prime XL Frame
    Cane Creek DBAIR CS Shock
    2013 X-Fusion Trace 140mm Tapered Fork
    Hope Pro2 Evo Straight Pull Hubs/Stans Flow EX Wheels
    Ardent EVO 2.4 Tires
    RockShox Reverb 125mm Seatpost
    Sram Carbon Crankset w/rf crankboots
    RaceFace N/W 34t Ring
    MRP 1x Low Direct Mount Chain Catcher
    SDG Belair Ti Shibuya Saddle
    Spike Spank Bearclaw Stem-50mm
    Race Face Sixc 780mm Bars
    Ergon GA1 Leichtbau grips
    XT Trail Brakes-180mm front, 160mm rear
    Cane Creek 40 Headset
    XT Trail pedals
    Token GPX bottom bracket

    The following items are currently on her/will be on in the next few weeks:

    Shimano XTR 9spd R-Derailer/XT M786 Shadow Plus
    XT 9spd 11-34 cassete/XT 10 speed 11-36 Cassette & Oneupcomponents 42t cog
    Sram 990 chain/shimano xt 10 chain w/sram quicklink
    XT 9spd shifter modified for double click down/10 spd xt shifter
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
    Ride Mammoth, Tahoe & Vegas

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  65. #1165
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    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
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    Gottamn this is a fun bike! I just found some trails nearby my house, they are like mini DH runs with really fun jumps.
    Isn't it great! the Prime is perfect for us tall aggressive riders.

  66. #1166
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    Awesome prime!! If anyone has a large production prime they want to sell....shoot me a pm.

    That terrain looks like it would be great for some low-speed-rock-crawl'n fatbike action!!

  67. #1167
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    Yes, I can concur with that statement Your build looks really sweet, like all the colour Have a Trace on my Prime right now and will definitely have to say, that for the $$, there's no better fork out right now. You definitely look to have Prime terrain, sadly the Prime is mostly too much bike for most of our trails, so here patiently awaiting the production and release of the Phantom
    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
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    Gottamn this is a fun bike! I just found some trails nearby my house, they are like mini DH runs with really fun jumps.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  68. #1168
    live long and huck
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    sadly the Prime is mostly too much bike for most of our trails,
    There's nothing wrong with taking a gun to a knife fight. LOL.

    Or should I say tank.

  69. #1169
    unrooted
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    Lynx, can't you build some jumps and drops?
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  70. #1170
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    Honestly, I'm not a jump/drop kind of guy, not more than a couple feet at most anyways and with natural roll in speed I like it nice slow, chunky, technical and steep, up or down and man does the Prime shine there, but not many trails fit that bill, most stuff is quite flowy XC type.

    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    Lynx, can't you build some jumps and drops?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  71. #1171
    unrooted
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    You should've traded your prime for my transition trans am frame!
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  72. #1172
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    @unrooted, sweet looking bike! It's nice to see more XL Primes in this thread.


    I'm planning on buying a Prime in the next couple of weeks. I have a 2014 XL black frame lined up along with a 2014 Fox Float 34 CTD fork. I'm waffling between which shock to get only because of my finances. I really want the CCDBa CS but I may have to settle with the Fox Float CTD shock.
    Decision time isn't happening just yet so I still have a bit of time to organize/finance my dream build for this bike.

    I just received my Derby Rims today for this build. I picked up the Heavy Duty 29er rims.
    I want to give a super positive shout out to Ray at Derby Rims for all his help and quick responses to my questions/emails. I feel very confident that these rims will withstand my smashing and that if I have any issues I will be taken care of promptly.
    I've decided to go with the DT Swiss 350 hubs and the 150mm rear spacing. Now I just have to find a solidly recommended wheel builder in my area to get them built up.

    Here's a shot that doesn't do justice to the sexiness that these rims are.
    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-img_20140130_151634.jpg
    I have a serious carboner looking at these!

    My plan is for a blacked out colour scheme with, maybe, some hints/highlights of red.

  73. #1173
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    My plan is for a blacked out colour scheme with, maybe, some hints/highlights of red.
    Good call on the rims! Stoked to see your ride come together!

    recent Prime stoke from my neck'o'the woods...you should see her ride that thing

    PS- 160mm air shaft has arrived for my Pike!


    _DSC8932 by emailsucks98, on Flickr

  74. #1174
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    Unlike it seems alot of people, my pre-production Prime holds a special place in my heart, it was a great experience being part of the design and feedback, something I'll prob not get to do again AND I still have it for trips overseas to the likes of CO, Utah, C'dian Rockies.

    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    You should've traded your prime for my transition trans am frame!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  75. #1175
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Unlike it seems alot of people, my pre-production Prime holds a special place in my heart, it was a great experience being part of the design and feedback, something I'll prob not get to do again AND I still have it for trips overseas to the likes of CO, Utah, C'dian Rockies.
    Don't forget Phoenix.

  76. #1176
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    Your bikes are all too clean!! :P

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p1050475s.jpg

  77. #1177
    unrooted
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    I'll take sand over mud any day!
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  78. #1178
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    Can't quite see the sand on the beach below (15-20ft drop) but it's there and temp was around 26C

    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    I'll take sand over mud any day!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-dsc_7633__fb.jpg  

    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  79. #1179
    unrooted
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    Would anyone else want a banshee t-shirt?

    Banshee T-Shirts
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  80. #1180
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    A bit of Prime in action photos here

    There.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  81. #1181
    Bnerd
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    !STOKED!

    I've just put my order in for an XL Prime!
    Unfortunately I couldn't get my first or second choice of frame colour. But that doesn't mean the raw finish still won't be a badass shred machine!

    Here's my updated build list (about to be acquired and still needing to be acquired):

    Frame: Banshee Prime XL raw aluminum
    Dropouts: 150mm
    Fork: 2014 Fox 34 Float CTD FIT 140mm
    Shock: CCDBa CS
    Headset: Banshee 56mm tapered zero stack
    Rims: Derby Heavy Duty 29" carbon

    Items yet to be acquired:

    Chromag: BZA carbon bars, BZA 50mm stem, Trailmaster LTD saddle, Scarab pedals, qr seat clamp, Squarewave grips
    SRAM: X9 or X7 Elixir Trail 200mm F/180mm R brakes, X0 or X9 shifters and derailleurs (2x10), cassette, X0 or X9 crankset, Reverb 160mm stealth dropper post
    Hubs: DTSwiss 350 15mm F / 150mm R

    This is the dream build. However, certain parts may be changed because of finances. But here's hoping to the build I want!

    It's funny how my bike is starting to come together as winter has finally descended here in Whistler. It has been a piss poor winter up until 3 days ago. In the last 3 days there's been almost a meter of snow and there's still almost another meter forecast for the coming 3 days!
    At least I'll be kept occupied shredding powpow while my build comes together!

  82. #1182
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    Looks like a very nice build (prefer Shimano myself), my only exception would be the brakes and stem. Brakes because Avid just plain sucks compared to a set of XTs and the stem just because it's a new build and you might not actually like that length, may want shorter and longer and end up having to spend twice, try a few "cheapies"first and then buy the nice one when you've settled on your preferred length.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  83. #1183
    unrooted
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    I have a 50mm stem, and I love it, but I feel like fit is great, but you learn to ride what you got!
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  84. #1184
    live long and huck
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    Prime feels pretty good with a compact cockpit.

  85. #1185
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    Good advice above, short stem (although I see you have a 50mm stem specc'd so you should be good), Shimano trail series brakes are really the best way to go - Avids are a royal pain.

  86. #1186
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    I'm liking the power of the Zee brakes, but hate the fact that you need a wrench to adjust them. I'd definitely do some XT's though, and I'm trying to decide if I'm willing to pop for some new Saints just for the tool free adjustability.

  87. #1187
    FM
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    Right on RideEverything! Stoked for you!
    Maybe we can coordinate some valley trail/westside action next summer.

  88. #1188
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Right on RideEverything! Stoked for you!
    Maybe we can coordinate some valley trail/westside action next summer.
    Yeah, definitely!
    I'm also hoping that I can get down to Bellingham and Seattle in the Fall for some riding. It would be sweet to hook up with you for a ride in either of those areas.

  89. #1189
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    I know that there's a lot of Shimano love on this board but I've been on SRAM for so long now that I guess I'm SRAM through and through!

    Also, In my circle of friends I'm the bike mechanic/builder. Over the years of helping them out I find that I've been turned off of Shimano because their parts never play nice with any other company's parts. Mainly in the cockpit. Shimano is kind of like Burton in the snowboard world. You either run all Shimano/Burton or you don't because nothing else fits with them. At least Burton hasn't fully done away with the 4x4 binding disks so you can still run their bindings with other companies' boards.

    The other thing is that I already have the bleed of Avid brakes fully dialed. And, I already have all the tools and fluids specific to Avid brakes. I've only had issues with Avid's lowest end brakes and none with their higher end. I'm a big guy who needs a lot of stopping power and I've yet to have issue with the Codes and Elixir 7's I've run.

    As to stem length, I've run the numbers of the Prime to the only other 29er I've been on, the Honzo. The most telling stat is the Reach number. The Prime is an inch longer than the Honzo so I feel confident that I'll be alright with a 50mm stem.
    To paraphrase @unrooted, run what you brung!

    I'm SO STOKED!!
    I'm picking the frame, fork and shock up in 3 weeks. At which point it'll be put up on the dresser in our bedroom. Hopefully my wife won't become too jealous as I gaze lovingly at my new bike as I drift off to sleep! Haha!

  90. #1190
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    Prime going to Málaga
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production Prime Photo/Build thread-image.jpg  


  91. #1191
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    See, that's the thing, with the Shimanos you don't have to be bleeding them every other month for them to work right, you just install them and change the pads when needed, that's it, not even when you shorten the lines. I was also of your thinking since I'm the local wrench, but after being able to just install the XTs and then about 8 months down the line thinking maybe I need to bleed, then hearing metal on metal and realising pads needing changing, changed the pads and voila, like new again.Sorry, for brakes, Avid has had the same issues for years and either isn't bother to or just plain can't fix them, I'd go Hayes first before Avids again.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    I know that there's a lot of Shimano love on this board but I've been on SRAM for so long now that I guess I'm SRAM through and through!

    Also, In my circle of friends I'm the bike mechanic/builder............The other thing is that I already have the bleed of Avid brakes fully dialed. And, I already have all the tools and fluids specific to Avid brakes. I've only had issues with Avid's lowest end brakes and none with their higher end. I'm a big guy who needs a lot of stopping power and I've yet to have issue with the Codes and Elixir 7's I've run.
    OK, was just saying since those are nice stems, but also very pricey IMHO. How tall are you RE? 6'2" with ape arms and 35.25" inseam, right now on a XL Prime w/ 60mm stem and 785mm wide bar, was thinking of getting a production Prime and going to a Large but then the Phantom was revealed and have been waiting for that and have decided to definitely go for the Large instead of XL and use a 75-80mm stem.
    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    As to stem length, I've run the numbers of the Prime to the only other 29er I've been on, the Honzo. The most telling stat is the Reach number. The Prime is an inch longer than the Honzo so I feel confident that I'll be alright with a 50mm stem.
    To paraphrase @unrooted, run what you brung!

    I'm SO STOKED!!
    I'm picking the frame, fork and shock up in 3 weeks. At which point it'll be put up on the dresser in our bedroom. Hopefully my wife won't become too jealous as I gaze lovingly at my new bike as I drift off to sleep! Haha!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  92. #1192
    unrooted
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    I'm 6'4" with 6'7" wingspan and I love the 50mm stem.

    I am currently on xt brakes after running avid elixir cr for 3 years. I never had to mess with my avids and the only difference I've noticed is the xt a never make a sound like the squeaky avids. Otherwise I don't notice a difference in power.
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
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  93. #1193
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    What width bar again UR?
    Quote Originally Posted by unrooted View Post
    I'm 6'4" with 6'7" wingspan and I love the 50mm stem.

    I am currently on xt brakes after running avid elixir cr for 3 years. I never had to mess with my avids and the only difference I've noticed is the xt a never make a sound like the squeaky avids. Otherwise I don't notice a difference in power.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  94. #1194
    unrooted
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    785mm
    195 lbs-6'4" Banshee Prime XL
    Ride Mammoth, Tahoe & Vegas

    PLEASE GIVE ME NEGATIVE REP!

  95. #1195
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    @LyNx you're reading a little too deep into what I wrote.

    Just because you've had a horrible experience with your Avid brakes doesn't mean that everyone else has.

    Yes, the Elixir 1 brakes I had were shit but they helped me learn the in's and out's of bleeding Avid brakes.
    I find it funny that people think regular maintenance of their high tech bike equipment is a hinderance. The expectation that their high end equipment should always function like new without doing anything to it is a joke.

    Let me take a dig at you:
    You decided to check your brake pads when they were metal on metal because of a noise you heard? Shouldn't you be on top of that and change them before that happens? Metal on metal is not good for the rotors.

    On my wife's two bikes she has Codes and X0 brakes. She rides as hard as I do so puts the brakes through their paces. I do a bleed/change of brake fluid at the start of each season because that's what keeps them feeling like new. There's never been a problem between those bleeds/fluid change.

    I've run a whole bunch of different Hayes brakes in my time on bikes. As a whole they've been great. But Hayes brakes are a f***ing PIA to bleed properly.

    My biggest reason for fully moving to Avid is because of my cockpit setup. That is why I'm not looking at Shimano. My experience with setting friends bikes up with Shimano brakes and other companies shifters has me looking elsewhere because Shimano doesn't play nice with cockpit setup unless you run a full Shimano cockpit.
    I've read all the great reviews about Shimano brakes. But I've also read and talked to people who have had great experiences with Avid. I'm going with Avid because I really like my SRAM shifters/derailleurs. And, as I've stated Shimano doesn't like to mix with other companies.

    I've written way more than I planned to. But once I started typing I couldn't stop!
    @LyNx, you generally have great info to pass on. However, sometimes you really do try to push your opinion to the exclusion of every other point of view.
    Last edited by RideEverything; 02-15-2014 at 08:59 PM.

  96. #1196
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    Myself and my riding circle have had more positive experiences with Avid than Shimano, though both are great. I adore my XO Trails.

  97. #1197
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    Yea this.

    I have had a very good run with Avid brakes, I too only run the top end ones.

    It is all about understanding how they work & how to set them up.

    I have to say that ridding some other peoples bikes with cheap avid's on them & wow what crap.

    I do like how nice the Avid/ Sram/ Rock Shox setup looks.

    I do also like the Shimano brakes & have them on 2 of my bikes, But don't find them to work better than my World Cup Avid/ Sram brakes that I have run on my last 10 or so bikes.

    That said when I build a bike for someone else I use Shimano brakes because I know that ( Joe blogs ) will have a better overall run with them.



    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    @LyNx you're reading a little too deep into what I wrote.

    Just because you've had a horrible experience with your Avid brakes doesn't mean that everyone else has.

    Yes, the Elixir 1 brakes I had were shit but they helped me learn the in's and out's of bleeding Avid brakes.
    I find it funny that people think regular maintenance of their high tech bike equipment is a hinderance. The expectation that their high end equipment should always function like new without doing anything to it is a joke.

    Let me take a dig at you:
    You decided to check your brake pads when they were metal on metal because of a noise you heard? Shouldn't you be on top of that and change them before that happens? Metal on metal is not good for the rotors.

    On my wife's two bikes she has Codes and X0 brakes. She rides as hard as I do so puts the brakes through their paces. I do a bleed/change of brake fluid at the start of each season because that's what keeps them feeling like new. There's never been a problem between those bleeds/fluid change.

    I've run a whole bunch of different Hayes brakes in my time on bikes. As a whole they've been great. But Hayes brakes are a f***ing PIA to bleed properly.

    My biggest reason for fully moving to Avid is because of my cockpit setup. That is why I'm not looking at Shimano. My experience with setting friends bikes up with Shimano brakes and other companies shifters has me looking elsewhere because Shimano doesn't play nice with cockpit setup unless you run a full Shimano cockpit.
    I've read all the great reviews about Shimano brakes. But I've also read and talked to people who have had great experiences with Avid. I'm going with Avid because I really like my SRAM shifters/derailleurs. And, as I've stated Shimano doesn't like to mix with other companies.

    I've written way more than I planned to. But once I started typing I couldn't stop!
    @LyNx, you generally have great info to pass on. However, sometimes you really do try to push your opinion to the exclusion of every other point of view.
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  98. #1198
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    Sorry, I read what I read, need a bleed every season, to me now that I've moved to Shimano XTs, while not a lot, most people aren't so lucky with their Avids and it's normally several times a season. Maybe it has something to do with our environment, maybe the DOT fluid doesn't like our high humidity, how/when bikes are shipped here, I don't know, but my experience with at least 5+ sets of Avids have always been the same, a royal PITA. This has been with very high end XX and XX World Cup and down lower from Juicy7s, Elixir 7s back to Elixir1s. I called SRAM about it once, on the XX and the guy there told me basically be prepared to bleed them every month to couple of months, when I get that sort of response from the company, no, not a product I'll be using. I've got guys who ride the cheapest Shimano, not an issue from the start, never need bleeding, aligning them to the rotor is simple and easy like it should be, not all the PITA fuss and fiddling.

    Maybe the Codes and CRs work better than the normal Elixirs and the higher end XX, I don't know and will never find out, not worth the hassle to me. To me Avid with it's brakes are about as bad as Fox and it's creaky crowns, they've known about the issue forever and still can't or don't care to fix the problem. Personally I think it's a seal issue, but what do I know, no other real explanation for bleeding them and having them work perfectly only if left to sit and then pick the bike back up a few weeks later they're locked on. NO ONE down here is on Avids and happy, if they had Avids, they've bought Shimano XT or XTRs, had them bolted on and never had to look at them again, except to check pad wear, that's it.

    As to your "dig" at me and my XTs and letting the pads wear down that far - First time on them and organic pads, wore much faster than previous sinistered pads I've used in Hope, Hayes and Avids, so lesson learned, you only get about 800 miles on a set if you ride aggressively, but I'll take that as they work silently and have unreal stopping power. I am a firm believer in the fact that anything needs maintenance, normally the higher end the part, the more it needs and am very anal about checking stuff and why everyone brings their bikes to me to service.

    As for pushing my thoughts, might be in this case because all people down here have had and most times I read on the interwebs, people constantly have trouble with Avids and turkey worble, needing bleeding too regularly and just generally being a PITA. I don't choose parts just because I can use match makers to mate my shifters with my brakes, I choose equipment that works, don't care how it looks, but generally no issues using Shimano brakes with Sram shifters or vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by RideEverything View Post
    @LyNx you're reading a little too deep into what I wrote.

    Just because you've had a horrible experience with your Avid brakes doesn't mean that everyone else has.

    Yes, the Elixir 1 brakes I had were shit but they helped me learn the in's and out's of bleeding Avid brakes.
    I find it funny that people think regular maintenance of their high tech bike equipment is a hinderance. The expectation that their high end equipment should always function like new without doing anything to it is a joke.

    Let me take a dig at you:
    You decided to check your brake pads when they were metal on metal because of a noise you heard? Shouldn't you be on top of that and change them before that happens? Metal on metal is not good for the rotors.

    On my wife's two bikes she has Codes and X0 brakes. She rides as hard as I do so puts the brakes through their paces. I do a bleed/change of brake fluid at the start of each season because that's what keeps them feeling like new. There's never been a problem between those bleeds/fluid change.

    I've run a whole bunch of different Hayes brakes in my time on bikes. As a whole they've been great. But Hayes brakes are a f***ing PIA to bleed properly.

    My biggest reason for fully moving to Avid is because of my cockpit setup. That is why I'm not looking at Shimano. My experience with setting friends bikes up with Shimano brakes and other companies shifters has me looking elsewhere because Shimano doesn't play nice with cockpit setup unless you run a full Shimano cockpit.
    I've read all the great reviews about Shimano brakes. But I've also read and talked to people who have had great experiences with Avid. I'm going with Avid because I really like my SRAM shifters/derailleurs. And, as I've stated Shimano doesn't like to mix with other companies.

    I've written way more than I planned to. But once I started typing I couldn't stop!
    @LyNx, you generally have great info to pass on. However, sometimes you really do try to push your opinion to the exclusion of every other point of view.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  99. #1199
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    Who knows... I ran shimano on all my bikes till '08, SRAM/Avid brakes -'08-'11, then Formula Ones till last year, back on shimanos now (XTR's on the Prime).

    I have to say I also had pretty bad luck keeping SRAM brakes bled, although they worked well when they had a good fresh bleed. My theory is that the SRAM contact adjusters get sloppy with wear and crashes, then somehow let air into the lines- mainly a problem on well-used brakes. A fresh bleed always fixed things, but only temporarily.

    The formulas were light, maintenance free, looked great and were very well made... but lacked the modulation of the Shimano XTRs and also they SQUEALED like crazy in wet conditions.

    For Shimano, I like the use of mineral oil, and that you can buy levers and calipers independently, mix & match. Also nice & quiet.

  100. #1200
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    Exactly, who knows?

    I may be eating my words in the months to come!

    I never said that Shimano sucked nor that Avid was the best. I know that both companies make great components. Perspective and experience makes us choose one over the other.
    I just found the absolutist position that Avid outright sucks both entertaining, irksome and in need of a response.

    I started with getting great deals on SRAM parts so that is where all my buying went to when getting new parts. If I can somehow get a miraculous deal on XT or XTR brakes then that will become a serious option. But right now I can get a pretty solid deal on Avid/SRAM components and have had positive experiences with Avid up to this point.

    Funnily enough I don't use matchmakers with anything on my bars because of the size of my hands, where I rest them on the grips and the positions I like my brake levers and shifter paddles at. I even squeezed the Reverb button between the 2 shift paddles of my front derailleur shifter so that my bar ergonomics would work for me. I like to run the right-side Reverb button upside down on the left side.
    I know that you can run Shimano and SRAM bits together on the bars but the shape of the Shimano bits puts everything else in my setup out of whack. It leads me to either compromise my brake lever positions or my shifter positions.

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