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  1. #451
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    Heated blade to remove the bigger, and then paper towels with acetone to remove the leftovers. If the frame was painted I wouldn't use the blade.

    Acetone was not enough to remove them, I needed to pass with the blade first, they seem to have an outer surface that didn't let the acetone sink. Waiting on black crankskins, still undecided if I should murder the fork or not. I guess once it has the wheels I'll be able to get a better idea
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  2. #452
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Personally, I would. I peeled the decals from the white 44 that I have on my Yelli. I just think that Zoke stickers are kind of ugly.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  3. #453
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    Hello from Spain.

    I present my bike.

    Regards

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-c360_2013-03-03-10-54-52-%5B800x600%5D.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-c360_2013-03-03-10-55-14-%5B800x600%5D.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-c360_2013-03-03-10-55-38-%5B800x600%5D.jpgProduction Prime Photo/Build thread-c360_2013-03-03-10-56-03-%5B800x600%5D.jpg

  4. #454
    G_g
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    Stealth you say:

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p4pb9279245.jpg

    Front rotor will be black, and will make some crank skins. Waiting for a new banjo, hopefully it will be here before the weekend (I needed a longer rear hose, thought the stock banjo was reusable, apparently it isn't, it was crimped to the line.)

    Apart from that, digging the stealth look. It should end up under 30 pounds, not bad for an aluminium 29er with proper tyres
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  5. #455
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Looks sweet!
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

  6. #456
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    Looks great G_g!

  7. #457
    TR
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    Anyone other than Lynx got pics of an XL frame?
    I generally run a 25" plus ETT.

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Anyone other than Lynx got pics of an XL frame?
    I generally run a 25" plus ETT.
    My black XL arrives this week so will post pics when she's built.

  9. #459
    TR
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    I guess that also brings me to a question.
    6'2" and 35" inseam.
    Usually ride XC bikes with a 25" or so ETT.
    24" seems too short but 25.4" seems on the long side.
    Given that I will probably use a very short stem, I am assuming the XL is the way to go?
    I would also prefer to have a longer ST rather than running a broomstick length of post so again this is pointing me to the XL.
    I usually have 78-79cm from saddle to BB centre on my XC bikes.

  10. #460
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    What do you intend on using the bike for and what do YOU consider a short stem? Since getting the Prime my definition of a short stem has changed quite a bit, it used to be short was 90mm, now 70-80mm is normal to long and 40-50mm is short. I do fine on the XL with a 70mm stem/785mm wide bar, (could most likely use a 60-65mm stem) but fact of the matter is I could also ride a L and use a 90mm stem and same bar and it would most def be a little bit more nimble ride, but since I couldn't demo and mine's a pre-production and I love to climb I erred on the side of caution and got what I'm accustomed to in a 25"+ ETT. The 48" WB is definitely something you have to man handle is the tight and fast stuff, but it also is very stable and at slow speed I don't notice is hardly.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I guess that also brings me to a question.
    6'2" and 35" inseam.
    Usually ride XC bikes with a 25" or so ETT.
    24" seems too short but 25.4" seems on the long side.
    Given that I will probably use a very short stem, I am assuming the XL is the way to go?
    I would also prefer to have a longer ST rather than running a broomstick length of post so again this is pointing me to the XL.
    I usually have 78-79cm from saddle to BB centre on my XC bikes.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  11. #461
    TR
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    What do you intend on using the bike for and what do YOU consider a short stem? Since getting the Prime my definition of a short stem has changed quite a bit, it used to be short was 90mm, now 70-80mm is normal to long and 40-50mm is short. I do fine on the XL with a 70mm stem/785mm wide bar, (could most likely use a 60-65mm stem) but fact of the matter is I could also ride a L and use a 90mm stem and same bar and it would most def be a little bit more nimble ride, but since I couldn't demo and mine's a pre-production and I love to climb I erred on the side of caution and got what I'm accustomed to in a 25"+ ETT. The 48" WB is definitely something you have to man handle is the tight and fast stuff, but it also is very stable and at slow speed I don't notice is hardly.
    Lynx, my XC bikes usually run a 100mm stem (could possibly go to 90mm but cant be bothered buying one to try).
    I would say 60 - 70mm would bring my overall reach back in line with my XC bikes.
    Most of my riding these days is just general singletrack with nothing much technical and as a result I ride my rigid Blacksheep with H-bars.
    However, I have basically had enough of the XC endurance racing that I have been doing and am looking at some of the Gravity Endurance events that have sprung up locally and in NZ and think that this bike could suit that bill quite well.
    Reading this thread it seems that this bike is a good fit for that sort of thing given that it climbs fairly well but can obviously handle the rougher stuff easily.

    I still have my Blacksheep for the tame stuff, shorter endurance races or fireroad rides along with my 2 road bikes for fitness and racing.

  12. #462
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    Well, for me, since like 2007 or so I have been on the pedal-freeride scene that now is Enduro. Back then I had a 60 stem, which was super short for everyone else that would pedal up a hill. Enter the Rune, and went with a 50mm one. Now on Enduro bikes, 50mm or so isn't rare.

    For the Prime I have a 50mm there and a 40mm on hold (it's on the street bike) until I test it out. I might even go with the syntace 30mm stem. I like the way the perform, I even like the Mondraker Forward Geometry idea.


    Anyway, less talk, more murder (erhm, pics, I meant pics, not murder):
    A banjo somewhere in Europe heading here, that is all I need to finish this puppy. The canfield cassette is working very well, this 9-36 is the poor man xx1, and it seems to be more than enough range, at least considering when I used 11-36 it was almost perfect

    Production Prime Photo/Build thread-p4pb9282933.jpg
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  13. #463
    TR
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    Very nice.
    What size is that G_g?
    I am also a little lost as my Blacksheep runs H-bars with the 100mm stem so my hands are further back than I would be with a flat or riser bar.
    Not a lot of options to try one of these over here in Australia.

  14. #464
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    The frame is a Large, I'm 5'11. I could choose between the Medium and Large, and all the advice pointed to the Medium, and then, I saw one. It looked so weird that I had to go with the large frame. I've run super short stems on DH sleds and like them a lot, so, worst case on the large prime was a 30mm stem from syntace, possibly coupled with syntace 12 degree backsweep bars. For now, playing the waiting game until I can start with the testing
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  15. #465
    TR
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    Looking at your seat height (assuming that is where you would ride it), I would be running a heap of exposed seatpost at 6'2".
    Thanks for the response.

    If I am lucky, one of the Banshee guys might pop their head in and help.

  16. #466
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    Saddle height isn't adjusted yet, I think it would be a little bit higher, an inch at max. These frames have a relatively short seat tube, but it is not unlike any other model in the market. My post is the 380mm, 125mm travel KS. I can move the seatpost 4 in higher to be in the limit that KS imposes. To a certain point, frame choice is a lot personal, I am more likely to go for a bigger frame with short stem, giving more emphasis on downhill capability, than for a smaller frame with long stem.
    Heck, now with the 435mm seatposts, seat height isn't a problem.
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  17. #467
    TR
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    Seat tube on the XL is OK for me, but at only 18" I think the L would be too short.

  18. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Lynx, my XC bikes usually run a 100mm stem (could possibly go to 90mm but cant be bothered buying one to try).
    I would say 60 - 70mm would bring my overall reach back in line with my XC bikes.
    Most of my riding these days is just general singletrack with nothing much technical and as a result I ride my rigid Blacksheep with H-bars.
    However, I have basically had enough of the XC endurance racing that I have been doing and am looking at some of the Gravity Endurance events that have sprung up locally and in NZ and think that this bike could suit that bill quite well.
    Reading this thread it seems that this bike is a good fit for that sort of thing given that it climbs fairly well but can obviously handle the rougher stuff easily.

    I still have my Blacksheep for the tame stuff, shorter endurance races or fireroad rides along with my 2 road bikes for fitness and racing.
    it isn't what you consider short, most modern am bikes are designed around a 50-60mm stem. so don't think of the ett and your idea of a normal stem. think of the bike with a stem in the designers range. so a 25.4" ett and a 50mm stem will be in your range of a 25" ett and 90-100mm stem. short stems, wide bars is the way to go. way more control and comfort and opens your chest up

  19. #469
    TR
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    Yep, all that is going to take some getting my head around.
    Wide bars for me are my 660mm H-bars.

  20. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    ... all the advice pointed to the Medium, and then, I saw one. It looked so weird ...
    I felt the same way when I first saw my med. frame in person (I'm 6')...but once built/ridden...it was obvious that it was the best fitting bike (non-custom; FS) I had ever owned (I had previously always owned LG frames)!
    I would like to ride a large frame for comparison, but the medium just feels perfect.

    PS. Your murder'd frame has me in full-on buyer's remorse!


  21. #471
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    This comment has been moved to a more relevant spot within the thread.
    Stoopid thread posting placement mechanics!
    Last edited by RideEverything; 03-05-2013 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Wrong place in thread. Stoopid thread posting mechanics!

  22. #472
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    I to am waiting for more pictures of XL frames.
    Being that I'm a giant at 6'6" with an over 35ish" inseam I'd like to see more pictures of this XL bike in the wild.

    The Prime is on my very "short" (Haha, short! pun intended!) list for full suspender AM 29er's.

  23. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I would say 60 - 70mm would bring my overall reach back in line with my XC bikes.
    Just a quick food-for-thought comment, because fit is subjective: I think the Prime should fit you a little differently than your XC bikes. I think this style of bike is best ridden in a more upright position, rather than a stretched out XC position. The ETT might well be shorter than what you're used to, but look at the reach for an idea of how it'll feel when you're out of the saddle.

    Your long legs might make the seat tube and seat post an issue; I'm not certain. I'm not familiar with those numbers on the production frames. I can tell you that at 6'3" with a 33" inseam, the L is all I'd want. A XL would be way too big for me.

    Along those lines, the wider bars make more sense as you come more upright. You can probably mime that for yourself - if you're stretched out, narrower bars feel better. As your torso straightens up, wider feels better.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  24. #474
    TR
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Just a quick food-for-thought comment, because fit is subjective: I think the Prime should fit you a little differently than your XC bikes. I think this style of bike is best ridden in a more upright position, rather than a stretched out XC position. The ETT might well be shorter than what you're used to, but look at the reach for an idea of how it'll feel when you're out of the saddle.

    Your long legs might make the seat tube and seat post an issue; I'm not certain. I'm not familiar with those numbers on the production frames. I can tell you that at 6'3" with a 33" inseam, the L is all I'd want. A XL would be way too big for me.

    Along those lines, the wider bars make more sense as you come more upright. You can probably mime that for yourself - if you're stretched out, narrower bars feel better. As your torso straightens up, wider feels better.
    I understand what you are saying but will say this.
    With the H-bars on my 25" ETT Blacksheep I already sit more upright than I would with a flat bar.
    With the truss fork the bars are also much higher than with a flat bar.

    I am shorter than you but have a cycling inseam 2" longer than you.
    Having ridden bikes with an 18" ST I am 100% sure that this is too short for me.

  25. #475
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    You could always just book a flight over to New Zealand & you could take some of my bikes for a ride for the weekend..

    I'm not saying that any of my bikes are what you are looking for but at the end of the weekend you would have a better idea of what you do & don't like bike fit wise for what you want to do.

    I could front with a Lge Jet9 RDO, Should have my Rip9 RDO very soon & could also borrow a friends Large Rip9 Alloy

    You could even try XX1 at the same time.

    Your call just offering.
    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Lynx, my XC bikes usually run a 100mm stem (could possibly go to 90mm but cant be bothered buying one to try).
    I would say 60 - 70mm would bring my overall reach back in line with my XC bikes.
    Most of my riding these days is just general singletrack with nothing much technical and as a result I ride my rigid Blacksheep with H-bars.
    However, I have basically had enough of the XC endurance racing that I have been doing and am looking at some of the Gravity Endurance events that have sprung up locally and in NZ and think that this bike could suit that bill quite well.
    Reading this thread it seems that this bike is a good fit for that sort of thing given that it climbs fairly well but can obviously handle the rougher stuff easily.

    I still have my Blacksheep for the tame stuff, shorter endurance races or fireroad rides along with my 2 road bikes for fitness and racing.
    Raising money, my friend broke his neck Mtbing, Please Share link. http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/elliottkeys/donations

  26. #476
    TR
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    As soon as I saw who had posted I thought to myself I need to contact Muzzanic when I go to NZ riding.
    A couple fo guys I know just got back from the Gravity Enduro that was held over there recently.
    They had a ball.
    I do like the look of the Rip9RDO and I have access to Jet9's and older Rip9's if I wanted.

  27. #477
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    Yes there is always a bed over here.

    Jet9's or Jet9 RDO's because they are very different to ride ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    As soon as I saw who had posted I thought to myself I need to contact Muzzanic when I go to NZ riding.
    A couple fo guys I know just got back from the Gravity Enduro that was held over there recently.
    They had a ball.
    I do like the look of the Rip9RDO and I have access to Jet9's and older Rip9's if I wanted.
    Raising money, my friend broke his neck Mtbing, Please Share link. http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/elliottkeys/donations

  28. #478
    TR
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    Dont know.
    I still have a love hate relationship with Niner after the whole Jet fiasco where they basically lied to me about what was going on for 6 months while I broke 3 of them.

  29. #479
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    I'm not trying to talk you into one, just saying that riding them might help you decide what size & style bike you might like more.


    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Dont know.
    I still have a love hate relationship with Niner after the whole Jet fiasco where they basically lied to me about what was going on for 6 months while I broke 3 of them.
    Raising money, my friend broke his neck Mtbing, Please Share link. http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/elliottkeys/donations

  30. #480
    TR
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    I'm not trying to talk you into one, just saying that riding them might help you decide what size & style bike you might like more.
    Yep.
    Sadly I cannot see myself getting over there before November.
    By that time I will have probably have gotten itchy feet and bought.
    I am convinced that the 18" ST on the large is too short so the XL is the only other option.
    I have ridden a Rune in Vancouver a few years ago and that was a very nice bike.
    Also rode an older Wildcard at Whistler which was fun but too much bike for me (and had silly small wheels).

  31. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post

    Your long legs might make the seat tube and seat post an issue; I'm not certain. I'm not familiar with those numbers on the production frames. I can tell you that at 6'3" with a 33" inseam, the L is all I'd want. A XL would be way too big for me.

    .
    Please! no more post regarding sizing if you are around 6'3''/6'4''!! :-), just comfirmed my order for a XL (6'3½''), and you are allready making me second-guess my choice..

    Naa, it will be fine - I'm planning on running a WB fluid 150 fork on the beast, anybody got experience with this combo?

  32. #482
    TR
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    Hmmm after reading another post it seems that there is no Banshee dealer in Australia.
    Who would be the recommended retailer in the US to order from for shipping down here?

  33. #483
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    TR, OK, well to me that seals it, if you're looking at this as a specific bike, then size wise I'd suggest a L with a slightly longer stem, but still wider bar in the 720mm> range. For me the Prime is a do all bike, XC, AM, whatever I come across, not specifically for one style/genre of riding, the sort of stuff you're describing, if it was, I most likely would want the smaller frame.

    As to seatpost, on my XL the stock 350mm post was at the max extension line when set to my preferred riding height of roughly 32" centre of BB to top of saddle, but a 410mm post more than gave enough in tube post to be comfortable (only needed some post in the frame), so I'd think a 410mm post would work for you on the L frame. If you're going to be doing the Enduro type stuff a dropper post is most definitely going to be part of your build, so then post selection could get dicey as I think they require a bit more post into the frame than a normal post. FYI, the ST length on the L is 19" not 18".

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Lynx, my XC bikes usually run a 100mm stem (could possibly go to 90mm but cant be bothered buying one to try).
    I would say 60 - 70mm would bring my overall reach back in line with my XC bikes.
    Most of my riding these days is just general singletrack with nothing much technical and as a result I ride my rigid Blacksheep with H-bars.
    However, I have basically had enough of the XC endurance racing that I have been doing and am looking at some of the Gravity Endurance events that have sprung up locally and in NZ and think that this bike could suit that bill quite well.
    Reading this thread it seems that this bike is a good fit for that sort of thing given that it climbs fairly well but can obviously handle the rougher stuff easily.

    I still have my Blacksheep for the tame stuff, shorter endurance races or fireroad rides along with my 2 road bikes for fitness and racing.
    Well then, you're in luck, just deal directly with Jay at the factory, it's what I had to do since there's none down here either.
    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Hmmm after reading another post it seems that there is no Banshee dealer in Australia.
    Who would be the recommended retailer in the US to order from for shipping down here?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  34. #484
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    Lynx, I am not convinced.
    The ST is 1" shorter than my sheep and the ETT also 1" shorter.
    I would think I would need to run a 100mm or so stem to get me in a comfortable position.
    I also dont want to be setup with my bars below my saddle which is generally what happens on smaller frames.

    Why would you want to run a long seatpost and a longer stem rather than a longer ETT, less seatpost and a shorter stem?

  35. #485
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    Shorter Wheel Base - The XL Prime has a 48" WB, whereas the L has a 46.6" WB.

    Right now I'm pretty much the anomaly in terms of the size I'm riding I think, most others my height are riding L frames who are using the Prime for more gravity oriented reasons. If you're getting this bike, you also have to force yourself to toss your XC Race thought pattern out the window if you want to use it to it's full potential, you have to embrace a nice short stem <90mm and nice wide bar 720mm>. While your inseam is only sposed to be a 1/4" shorter than mine, your saddle height is almost an inch lower (could be my size 48/13 feet), so even with a 350mm post you'd have about 3/4-7/8" above max extension into the the ST, which in turn would make a 410mm more than enough for the L frame. I think with a 720mm> bar (I'd suggest 750mm at least), even on the L you wouldn't need a stem over 90mm. Having the L frame instead of the XL you'd have a much more agile bike and for Enduro, which AFAIK is more based around the DHs you'd want something you can move around easier.

    Throw up a pic of you on one of your current bikes to let us see just how stretched you like to be. There's a side on of me running the 785mm wide bar and 70mm/6* stem, flipped.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Lynx, I am not convinced.
    The ST is 1" shorter than my sheep and the ETT also 1" shorter.
    I would think I would need to run a 100mm or so stem to get me in a comfortable position.
    I also dont want to be setup with my bars below my saddle which is generally what happens on smaller frames.

    Why would you want to run a long seatpost and a longer stem rather than a longer ETT, less seatpost and a shorter stem?
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  36. #486
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    Here you go Lynx.
    This is my favourite bike and is quite a lot more upright than any of my previous race bikes.




  37. #487
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    To me looking at that pic, you definitely look to have shorter arms than me and your back is hunched, whereas mine is straight and with my 70mm stem and 785mm bars I look more forward/bent over than you on your BS and why I say the L would work for you with a 90mm stem and 720mm> bar, as I think it would almost work for me and my current style/type of riding.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Here you go Lynx.
    This is my favourite bike and is quite a lot more upright than any of my previous race bikes.
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  38. #488
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    I think that the "hunch" you are seeing is the spare tube I have in my back pocket and the fact that I am turning to look at the photographer.

    I think it might be best for me to email the guys at Banshee and get their take on their sizing.
    I was hoping that builttoride may have stuck their head in here and commented.
    Might also need to find out why they dont have an Aussie distributor and whether they are keen to get one too.

  39. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I think that the "hunch" you are seeing is the spare tube I have in my back pocket and the fact that I am turning to look at the photographer.

    I think it might be best for me to email the guys at Banshee and get their take on their sizing.
    I was hoping that builttoride may have stuck their head in here and commented.
    Might also need to find out why they dont have an Aussie distributor and whether they are keen to get one too.
    I disagree...I think your back is rounded as well. That is not only a compromised riding position, anatomically, but also far from an aggressive riding position for a Prime-style of riding. Either you are looking at the wrong style of bike for your riding needs, or perhaps you should simply try the newer geometry of the AM genre. Either way, I agree a LG Prime would suffice.


  40. #490
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    I guess everyone has their opinions.
    I think from the picture that Lynx's saddle is too high and I wonder why he has a neg rise stem a riser bar AND spacers under it.
    But that is just me.
    Anyway I have sent an email to the guys at Banshee looking for their feedback.
    I dont know anything about AM geometry whether it be new or old so I am needing to get some help.

  41. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I guess everyone has their opinions.
    I think from the picture that Lynx's saddle is too high and I wonder why he has a neg rise stem a riser bar AND spacers under it.
    But that is just me.
    Anyway I have sent an email to the guys at Banshee looking for their feedback.
    I dont know anything about AM geometry whether it be new or old so I am needing to get some help.
    Lynx's leg extension looks good in his pic, but I would agree with you, in the sense that, this type of bike would require a dropper post if you want your saddle at optimum ride height..at all.

    I think you would be surprised by the fit of the large, but if you're wanting a xc-ish fit...I would advise you to look elsewhere. Anything that fits that objective will likely not perform well in an AM setting...and vice versa.


  42. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Lynx's leg extension looks good in his pic, but I would agree with you, in the sense that, this type of bike would require a dropper post if you want your saddle at optimum ride height..at all.

    I think you would be surprised by the fit of the large, but if you're wanting a xc-ish fit...I would advise you to look elsewhere. Anything that fits that objective will likely not perform well in an AM setting...and vice versa.
    Again we all have our opinions on fit.

    I am not saying I want an XC fit at all as if I did, I would not be looking at this bike.
    I am going to go and sit on some all mountain style bikes if I can (but it will only be sitting as bike shops in Australia dont have test bikes that you can ride anywhere outside of their carpark).
    There is also no Banshee distributor in Australia so that is also tricky.
    My big concern is the 19" ST which has caused me isures in the past with Ventana's and Niner's.

  43. #493
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    Ok, at 5'11, I am using the saddle 1cm over the full slammed downwards (keep in mind it is a telescopic, which has 125 travel. Just imagine what you see in my pics with saddle 1cm higher). Considering the post can be run 9cm more upwards, and that there are longer posts (385 is mine, thomson makes 410, and 150mm travel telescopic are 435).

    You are 3" taller than me, and even if that would be all in the legs, you could still ride with posts like mine. Yes there will be seatpost exposed. Well, when you have slopping in the top tube, you get shorter seattubes. I don't see any problem with that, especially when you can run everything well within the secure area, and you could even get longer posts just for extra safety. The frames are longer than the v1 frames, which I expected.
    For me, 40mm stems feels very nice, with 745mm bars. When I can, I'll switch to wider bars (800 or so) and a 30-35mm stem. Remember to shorten stem when widening bars
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  44. #494
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    G_g
    Just did some calcs.
    My usual seat height is 79cm from BB.
    The ST at 19" is 48.3cm.
    Therefore my exposed seatpost (allowing for 2.5cm of stack for saddle) is approx 28.2cm (11.1") which probably works.
    Also looking at the H-bars they see my hands probably 20mm or so further back than if I was using the same stem with a normal bar which basically means I am running the equivalent of a 70 - 80mm stem.
    That sees my total effective top tube as say 71.5cm compared to 67cm with a 24" ETT plus 60mm stem.

    Does that seem a reasonable change to ETT?
    I understand that some of this lost reach will be taken up through the wider bars.

  45. #495
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    ETT is a pretty unpredictable figure these days, with curved seat tubes and all that. Not to mention layback posts etc.
    I think you'd be better served to consider stack & reach.

    FWIW, I am running 10-11" of exposed post (saddle not included) on my current bikes (M Prime & S Kona Honzo). Perfect for a 150mm dropper post!

  46. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    ETT is a pretty unpredictable figure these days, with curved seat tubes and all that. Not to mention layback posts etc.
    I think you'd be better served to consider stack & reach.

    FWIW, I am running 10-11" of exposed post (saddle not included) on my current bikes (M Prime & S Kona Honzo). Perfect for a 150mm dropper post!
    Well what do you know.
    According to this link the XL TB is only .5cm shorter reach than the L Prime and is actually 1cm lower stack height.

    The XL Prime would be 30mm longer reach than the XL TB.

    Thanks FM.

  47. #497
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    Wondered how come it too you so long to pick up on that The reason I have a neg rise stem and spacers is because I didn't want to cut the steerer tube too short and regret it if I happened to want to run this fork on a frame with longer HT or any other feature requiring a longer steerer, it's that simple, that's it. I could easily run a ) rise stem and 20-25mm of spacers and also be happy, but without cutting the steerer more I'd have more exposed steerer ontop than I care to have.

    As to my leg reach, I would have to agre, in that still capture from a vid, it does look a bit tall, but that was also taken very soon after I got the Prime and was still getting used to it and IIRC I did lower the saddle height a tad from where it was in the pic, but I adjust my saddle height depending on what baggies I'm wearing or not, also may not have been sat properly on the saddle as that was right after climbing up a 20" step up. If you look at your pic and realise your foot isn't at the full bottom of the pedal stroke then yours is about the same as mine in that pic

    I think it's a good idea for you to try to swing a leg over some "AM" type bikes to just get a feel for how they feel as they will feel quite a bit different than what you've been accustomed to. It definitely takes some getting used to when coming off more XC type geo with steeper angles and such, but if you're honestly looking for this type of bike, then I think the Prime will give you miles upon miles, of smiles

    Hope Keith can help you shed some light on this and give you some confidence in which size to go with. All I'm trying to do is impart what knowledge I have gained in being a tester and saying OK to test the XL going on ETT measurement mainly to see how it fit an rode compared to my previous XL bikes. What I have learned is that I might have been able to go with a L frame instead of the XL and had a more nimble ride which doesn't require as much muscle and in crunching numbers they seem to correlate with this thought process.

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    I guess everyone has their opinions.
    I think from the picture that Lynx's saddle is too high and I wonder why he has a neg rise stem a riser bar AND spacers under it.
    But that is just me.
    Anyway I have sent an email to the guys at Banshee looking for their feedback.
    I dont know anything about AM geometry whether it be new or old so I am needing to get some help.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  48. #498
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    Yep, my foot is pointed there but I am pretty flat footed at the bottom of my stroke.
    I could show you a picture but it would involve road bikes and nobody wants to see that here.

  49. #499
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    Production Prime Photo/Build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    What I have learned is that I might have been able to go with a L frame instead of the XL and had a more nimble ride which doesn't require as much muscle and in crunching numbers they seem to correlate with this thought process.
    Wow. Being familiar with your post history, I can imagine what kind of a vision quest you've experienced to write that. I went through the same curve, but earlier. I got away from mountain biking around 1991, and when I came back to it in 2004, I expected, if not demanded, a saddle 4-6" higher than my bars, and all that comes with that fit. I still remember demoing a Trek 4300 that summer and thinking: "No! This feels all wrong!" Then I bought a 1998 Stumpjumper and thought I had it dialed. I have an advantage for which I'm grateful- I live in a town with a strong bike culture and I can learn from others who know a lot more than I do, whereas I get the idea the bike culture in Barbados is still embryonic. I have fallen in with guys who can outclimb most anyone around on heavy FR-AM bikes and have postures like unicycle riders. They aren't as fast on the smooth or gentle trails, but they'll beat you on the big, steep and nasty climbs, because they don't stop. That was an awakening, although it took a few years to play out.

    Welcome to the dark side. Come visit us in Montana; we have some sufferfest climbs you'd love.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

  50. #500
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    Still not 100% sure on this, a test ride is the only thing that would confirm. What I can say about the XL and current setup is that I like where I am and my bar in relation to the front hub. I cannot see the front hub, it is directly hidden by my bar, where most bikes my bar is infront of it, this for me makes those crazy steep, slow descents I love so confident for me and if I did go for a L and 90mm stem I'd be seeing the front hub behind the bar, so as said, not 100% certain and when I next make a trip up north I'm planning to find out.

    Yes, MTBing in Barbados is not very big, just handful of riders (loads and loads of roadies) and right now I'm about it as far as knowledge goes in terms of MTBs Being a little OCD/ADHD/Bi-Polar I tend to focus mainly on one thing at a time and as such I think I've learned quite a bit about MTBs and MTBing in general. I will definitely say I credit m,y 2 Colorado trips for opening my eyes to "big" riding and what steep was and was rideable, totally changed my outlook on what we had here and what was rideable. When I started MTBing I could only ride about 10-15% of my fav trail, now I can ride about 90-95% of it. Riding here is just different from up north, different terrain, def diff climate and heat index, which all factor in, but I've grown to love it despite our longest MTB descent only being 8-10 minutes, not thing to compare with the available 30 min descents in CO.


    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Wow. Being familiar with your post history, I can imagine what kind of a vision quest you've experienced to write that. I went through the same curve, but earlier. I got away from mountain biking around 1991, and when I came back to it in 2004, I expected, if not demanded, a saddle 4-6" higher than my bars, and all that comes with that fit. I still remember demoing a Trek 4300 that summer and thinking: "No! This feels all wrong!" Then I bought a 1998 Stumpjumper and thought I had it dialed. I have an advantage for which I'm grateful- I live in a town with a strong bike culture and I can learn from others who know a lot more than I do, whereas I get the idea the bike culture in Barbados is still embryonic. I have fallen in with guys who can outclimb most anyone around on heavy FR-AM bikes and have postures like unicycle riders. They aren't as fast on the smooth or gentle trails, but they'll beat you on the big, steep and nasty climbs, because they don't stop. That was an awakening, although it took a few years to play out.

    Welcome to the dark side. Come visit us in Montana; we have some sufferfest climbs you'd love.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

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