Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,899

    Production prime geometry

    You can find the final Prime production geometry here

    I'm aware from a few emails I have recieved, that some people are trying to pick the best frame size fit from the pre production geometry, which is not quite the same as production geometry. So I've put the production geo chart up on our blog to ensure you have the latest info.

    Enjoy number crunching, but please remember that you need to consider all the numbers (not just reach and stack, or effective seat and top tube). One thing to pay particular attention to on the Prime is the difference between EFFECTIVE seat angle, and REAL seat post angle. Essentially the higher you put your saddle the stacker the seat angle will become, due to the bend in the seat tube. So it is unlikely you will be riding the bike with the effective seat angle of 75.5 degrees in neutral postion unless you are 5'0" tall.

    Ideally I recommend you try and get a test ride on a frame (or at least sit on one in a dealer) if possible before you buy, although I do realise that this is easier said than done with a brand new model.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  2. #2
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    awesome Keith. The production geometry looks to have some subtle improvements

    Can you please describe the effect of the adjustable geometry on the wheelbase?

  3. #3
    Prime
    Reputation: Optimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,138
    Pretty much what I was working to. When I drew my CAD frames overlay, I intersected the 75 effective and 70 degree seat tube angles at a point of 30" saddle top to bb center line on the 75 degree angle, when I drew in my ett at the stack height I was only off by 3/4 mm. Close enough for what I was trying to figure out, and close enough to know that I was on the right track. But you can never have too much information, thanks builttoride.

    Man, I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jncarpenter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,767
    Isn't this the same geo as what's been posted on the site for a bit now?


  5. #5
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    17,920
    Looks to be, just easier to read laid out as a static jpeg instead of web code.
    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Isn't this the same geo as what's been posted on the site for a bit now?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  6. #6
    CP
    Reputation: C.P.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    174
    Question...I have been number crunching using a few of the pre-production testers posts (and very informative PM's sharing detailed info) regarding what size to pick. With out rambling on or digging up multiple geo charts previously published...does anyone know what actual spec' numbers changed from pre-production test bikes to the production model? I hope I haven't thrown a wrench into the proverbial gears with this request...

  7. #7
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    This may not be everything & all, but what I recall from a conversation with Keith based on medium size frame;
    • Reach & wheelbase will be 2-3mm shorter, top tube is 7mm shorter. Much of the shorter top tube is the result of steeper seat angle.
    • Based on geometry charts, the head tube will be .25" shorter.


    These are subtle differences, but all improvements in my opinion.....

  8. #8
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    17,920

    Old geo

    Below is the old geo chart so you can more easily go over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by C.P. View Post
    Question...I have been number crunching using a few of the pre-production testers posts (and very informative PM's sharing detailed info) regarding what size to pick. With out rambling on or digging up multiple geo charts previously published...does anyone know what actual spec' numbers changed from pre-production test bikes to the production model? I hope I haven't thrown a wrench into the proverbial gears with this request...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production prime geometry-prime-new-geo.jpg  

    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,899
    Yeah it is, but people were contacting me quoting numbers from pre production geometry, so some people hadn't seen the new info on our website. I figure that it doesn't hurt to post it up again.

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Isn't this the same geo as what's been posted on the site for a bit now?
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    866
    I'm not seeing any perks on long wheel base for technical.tossing around replacing my Titus EG with the Prime,at 1.8" longer then the EG on a medium I will find it hard to compare in tight tech with features that I use it for,1.8" longer is enough to get hung up or work harder in some of the tech I ride,that being said I like all of the other characteristics of the frame.

  11. #11
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    You're guapo is a 26'er, correct? The advantages of bigger wheels will more than offset the longer wheelbase in a lot of tech situations. Get a testride if you can

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    866
    This is the first 29er that I have been excited about after owning several disappointments,it being made specifically for AM is really exciting and the numbers all look very good,just from my experience longer wheelbase though excellent in high speed stability does not always translate very well in steep tight tech climbing and some of the almost trials tech I really enjoy.the EG is a very tough bike to live up to in these situation descends and turns with the best of them.believe me I really want the Prime to be everything an AM bike should strive to be in a 29er format,no local dealers in my area and have never even seen a Banshee of any type in the flesh,will continue to look for new reviews as more riders post.

  13. #13
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    17,920
    Take FMs suggestion, get a test ride, you will be surprised how it handles Just an FYI, I too was worried about going for the XL which is the size I normally do because the WB would be 3"> than the Paradox I had been riding and I'll tell you straight, not been an issue, maybe a bit more work, but the overallness of the bike more than makes up for it and honestly it doesn't feel much bigger somehow.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    You're guapo is a 26'er, correct? The advantages of bigger wheels will more than offset the longer wheelbase in a lot of tech situations. Get a testride if you can
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    866
    If only it was possible to test ride one,tested a Tallboy LT and a Transition bandit, if push comes to shove will lean to the Tallboy.I have the funds and am ready to build.

  15. #15
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    Very cool! Just realized something....

    On the proto frames, rotating the drop-outs to the steeper/taller setting makes the chainstays longer.
    According to the chart below, on the production frames, rotating the drop-outs to the steeper/taller setting makes the chainstays shorter.
    Big improvement IMO!

    The numbers posted are in the neutral setting....in the steep setting, looks like both front and back wheels will tighten up.

    Even in the longest setting, the prime chainstays are shorter than the Tallboy LTC. And the prime is still slacker, even in the steepest setting.

    So if you're comparing numbers, keep it all in mind. Would be great to get to get the wheelbase lengths in the different geometry settings. My guess is that the production Prime's steep setting is much closer to the B29 or tallboy.

    Not that I have any complaints with the geometry on my proto in the slack setting

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,899
    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Very cool! Just realized something....

    On the proto frames, rotating the drop-outs to the steeper/taller setting makes the chainstays longer.
    According to the chart below, on the production frames, rotating the drop-outs to the steeper/taller setting makes the chainstays shorter.
    Big improvement IMO!

    The numbers posted are in the neutral setting....in the steep setting, looks like both front and back wheels will tighten up.

    Even in the longest setting, the prime chainstays are shorter than the Tallboy LTC. And the prime is still slacker, even in the steepest setting.

    So if you're comparing numbers, keep it all in mind. Would be great to get to get the wheelbase lengths in the different geometry settings. My guess is that the production Prime's steep setting is much closer to the B29 or tallboy.

    Not that I have any complaints with the geometry on my proto in the slack setting
    Yeah, this was something I never liked much about proto design, I wanted the CS to become shorter in taller setting, and longer in slack, as this amplifies what each setting is all about slightly. Slack you choose for stability (longer CS), and steep you choose for being nimble (shorter CS).
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,899
    Quote Originally Posted by techfersure View Post
    This is the first 29er that I have been excited about after owning several disappointments,it being made specifically for AM is really exciting and the numbers all look very good,just from my experience longer wheelbase though excellent in high speed stability does not always translate very well in steep tight tech climbing and some of the almost trials tech I really enjoy.the EG is a very tough bike to live up to in these situation descends and turns with the best of them.believe me I really want the Prime to be everything an AM bike should strive to be in a 29er format,no local dealers in my area and have never even seen a Banshee of any type in the flesh,will continue to look for new reviews as more riders post.
    There are 2 options here that might work for you.

    #1 If you have a local bike shop that you know and trust (or just one that is convenient) they can contact our distributor and buy just a single frame for you. Our North American distributor has no minimums or contracts for first time dealers that I am aware of.

    #2 Rbikes.com , (and perhaps other online dealers) offer a demo program where you pay something like $200 to have a bike of your choice for a week to test out on the local trails you know well. If at the end of the week you like the bike and choose to buy one, I'm pretty sure that you get the $200 off the price of a new bike. You'd have to check with Rbikes that my facts are right here, as I'm remembering this from a chat I had a couple of years back.

    As the guys indicated, you can never really know a bike from the numbers, you have to ride it.

    Hope that helps,
    Keith
    Banshee Bikes Designer
    www.bansheebikes.com
    Banshee Blog

  18. #18
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    Sounds good to me


    IMG_4218 by emailsucks98, on Flickr

  19. #19
    Prime
    Reputation: Optimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,138
    Amazing picture FM. And I thought that I had awesome places to ride. Question, what chain guide are you running and do you like it well enough to buy another?

  20. #20
    Hard funkinī Kraut
    Reputation: NoStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    732
    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Yeah, this was something I never liked much about proto design, I wanted the CS to become shorter in taller setting, and longer in slack, as this amplifies what each setting is all about slightly. Slack you choose for stability (longer CS), and steep you choose for being nimble (shorter CS).
    ... and itīs great to have this nice little feature on the Runes and Spitfires as well!

    FM, is your Proto a medium frame-size?

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  21. #21
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    Thanks Optimus. Washington Cascades are pretty awesome- here's the view looking the other direction, these were both taken yesterday...

    Far as chainguides- I had originally tried an MRP and it didn't clear the lower pivot on the prime. I ended up with an E13 LG1. It works great and was easy to set up. However with the new clutch rear derailuers a chainguide may not be required.

    Very stoked about the geometry refinements for the production frames!


    IMG_4213 by emailsucks98, on Flickr

    IMG_4223 by emailsucks98, on Flickr

  22. #22
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    FM, is your Proto a medium frame-size?
    Yes, it's a medium with 30" bars and a 50mm stem. I'm 5'-9".

  23. #23
    Hard funkinī Kraut
    Reputation: NoStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    732
    Thanks FM

  24. #24
    Prime
    Reputation: Optimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,138
    Beautiful pics, FM. I'm truly envious. My best views can't compare to yours.

    Sorry for the semi-hijack.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Production prime geometry-dscn4446.jpg  

    Production prime geometry-dscn5838.jpg  

    Production prime geometry-dscn4854.jpg  

    Production prime geometry-dscn4201.jpg  


  25. #25
    FM
    FM is offline
    luxatio erecta
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,007
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Beautiful pics, FM. I'm truly envious. My best views can't compare to yours.
    Eh, I don't know.... just different.
    The best pics I'm posting, these trails are only open 2-3 months a year.
    We have great riding here in the off-season too, more AM/FR stuff, but it does get wet and grey here. I would gladly trade you places around february

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •