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Thread: Primo.

  1. #1
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    Primo.

    Built and ridden.
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    Build:
    -HS pressed in like butter. Very hot, sexy butter.
    -I need to come up with a better chainguide. Bottom roller is good. Lack of a top roller is not so good.
    -Had to clean the edges of the dropout pierce with a scribe--tolerances were so tight I couldn't get the Maxle through at first. 30 seconds to locate the tool, 10 seconds to take the square edge off.
    -Had hoped for real "raw"--none of this clearcoated nancyboy stuff...
    -Cable routing seems clunky, but probably just because it's new to me. Can't yet see how I'd improve it, so it must be working.
    -Maxle placement no worky--have to remove the rear der from the frame to be able to turn the lever. Either that or just forget about removing/installing the wheel! Fortunately it's an easy fix that only requires a running change to the (replaceable) dropouts.
    -Plenty of tire clearance for my 1 x 9 setup. Need to fine tune the chainring's lateral position for better chainline in the gears I use most often.
    -135 dropouts, seatpost, and QR seat clamp were all included. Nice.

    Ride:
    -Started with rear shock at ~140#. Rode for ~30 minutes, felt like I kept getting into the bottom-out ramp despite the fact that my riding can currently be described as 'milquetoast'. Added 20psi. Better, sitting higher, but spikey on square edges now. Tried to reduce the bottom out resistance by 'dialing it down' via the blue knob on the reservoir. Nope--just came off in my hand. Can drop the PSI in the Boost Valve (and I did--to about 100) but the dial is ornamental on my damper. Feels much better at 100psi. Except that there's a sticker *right there* telling you to keep it above 125. Meh?

    If I only get one word to describe it: Brickshithouse.



    More later.

    MC

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    Woottttt....hot hot stuff....Gimme a prime anytime man......

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If I only get one word to describe it: Brickshithouse.

    MC
    How brickshithousey weight wise? Or is it one of those if you have to ask, you don't get the purpose of the bike sort of things?
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    How brickshithousey weight wise? Or is it one of those if you have to ask, you don't get the purpose of the bike sort of things?
    When I pull a ~9# frame/shock out of a box, my mind does not immediately leap to lycra and number plates. But I do breathe heavy.

    That said, it's waaaaaaaay too early (for me) to know how much the weight will determine the 'purpose'.

    I've got a 150mm coil fork and coil shock on standby. Lighter wheels/lighter tires also. As always, will swap and fiddle to try to uncover as much of the potential as I can.

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    Looks like 34lbs to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    When I pull a ~9# frame/shock out of a box, my mind does not immediately leap to lycra and number plates. But I do breathe heavy.

    That said, it's waaaaaaaay too early (for me) to know how much the weight will determine the 'purpose'.

    I've got a 150mm coil fork and coil shock on standby. Lighter wheels/lighter tires also. As always, will swap and fiddle to try to uncover as much of the potential as I can.
    It looks like you are starting with the high and steep setting on the drop outs. Coupled with a longer fork, that might get you just where you like it
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    When I pull a ~9# frame/shock out of a box, my mind does not immediately leap to lycra and number plates.
    Couple of thoughts.
    Measured the tubes with a caliper, the downtube on the prime is significantly larger than the one on my Rune. She's stiff & beefy

    8.5lbs seems to be the weight range for the medium long travel 29'ers that are on the market (i.e. intense T29, shinobi?) and that's generally with an Rp23. The DHX-air is .5lbs heavier than an rp23. My build came in around 33lbs with a coil shock, big tires, steel chainguide and dropper post... not too bad. These are prototypes for testing, I'm sure places can be found to shave weight, if it's a priority. Otoh.. slack and beefy...maybe lycra and number plates weren't the intent!

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    Conundrum? For now, yep.

    Combine the weight, the fact that it comes with a piggyback and a Maxle, has cable guides for a dropper *and* a hammer, plus the 1.5" HT, and few will leap to the conclusion that it's anything other than a trail bike.

    But what *kind* of trail bike? From what I've seen, the guys at Banshee are ripping riders whom live in close proximity to some A+ tech trails. But tech trails come in lots of shapes and sizes--so the question remains.

    Big tires can be 800 to 1400g, wide rims can be 500 to 800g, and component spec can easily mean a difference of a few pounds. Add that all up and you could have a ~32# poppy, floaty, manually, and carvy machine. On the other end you might get a 38# plow bike.

    I've got most of what's needed here to hit both ends of that spectrum. And I've got similar bikes in the quiver already--at each end of that spectrum. So there's zero pressure on the Prime to become anything other than what it is. Whatever that turns out to be.

    Looking forward to the process of finding out.

    MC

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    Any full bike shots?
    konahonzo

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    Most of the tubeset on the Prime's seem to come from the Legend DH frame, the seatstays, chainstays and TT are identical to my DHer, these proto's will take anything that can be thrown at them (my XL build is probably 35lbs). As for Maxle clearance I had no interferance with my XT shadow derailleur.
    Jealous that you can ride yours, I'm buried in snow that is currently being rained on making it good and slick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    Most of the tubeset on the Prime's seem to come from the Legend DH frame, the seatstays, chainstays and TT are identical to my DHer, these proto's will take anything that can be thrown at them (my XL build is probably 35lbs). As for Maxle clearance I had no interferance with my XT shadow derailleur.
    Jealous that you can ride yours, I'm buried in snow that is currently being rained on making it good and slick.
    Maxle doesn't interfere with the der *or* the housing on yours?

    It's mostly the housing on mine, but where you have one you usually have the other...

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Any full bike shots?
    Oh yeah--lots of 'em and it is one sexy mofo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Maxle doesn't interfere with the der *or* the housing on yours?

    It's mostly the housing on mine, but where you have one you usually have the other...
    It is relatively clear of both, the lever just brushes the housing on the last couple of turns or so when snugging things up, but I barely noticed because the housing just move out of the way and it is near the end of the lever.

    Primo.-dsc_0114.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    It is relatively clear of both, the lever just brushes the housing on the last couple of turns or so when snugging things up, but I barely noticed because the housing just move out of the way and it is near the end of the lever.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I assume you do know that your lever in that picture is in the "full open" position? I would not ride it like that (for the kids at home)


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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I assume you do know that your lever in that picture is in the "full open" position? I would not ride it like that (for the kids at home)
    Yup, I intentionally did that to show where the lever would hit the housing when installing or removing the wheel.

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    You got a Manitou Tower 140 on there?

    (I'm sure if you wanted to talk about it you would have posted a pic with the whole fork).

    Going to be an interesting year for 120mm+ travel 29ers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    Yup, I intentionally did that to show where the lever would hit the housing when installing or removing the wheel.
    So the dropout is threaded L side?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brougham View Post
    So the dropout is threaded L side?
    my thoughts exactly.

    on the Scythe the threads are on the drive side.

    Primo.-dsc_0090.jpg
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    Permission was granted to let fly with whole bike pics--sounds like the fork might be getting close to production.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/a2561i4l02cX-IKuRXX6v7NqVa4cxzZiKb61FvxUSvk?feat=embedwebsite"> <img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qI9GuxuvhJ4/TyivZS2YfUI/AAAAAAAAexU/kTkSn3lSKQ4/s800/IMG_0543.jpg" height="538" width="800" /></a>

    Dunno what they're calling it (Tower? Minute? Mower?!), but it's air sprung, tapered, 140mm travel, and with a simple, slick, tool-free 15mm TA.

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XiFgyxFX31Z9c__GGgwsqrNqVa4cxzZiKb61FvxUSvk?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-py_uUK5xF8E/Tyivap4rpRI/AAAAAAAAexc/ZfG2Zp8IYWg/s800/IMG_0625.jpg" height="538" width="800" /></a>

    Looking forward to a few days of red rock chunk on it this weekend.

    MC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    my thoughts exactly.

    on the Scythe the threads are on the drive side.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It is strange that the Maxle is on the non-usual side. It does provide some protection to the derailleur and d-hanger though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Permission was granted to let fly with whole bike pics--sounds like the fork might be getting close to production.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/a2561i4l02cX-IKuRXX6v7NqVa4cxzZiKb61FvxUSvk?feat=embedwebsite"> <img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qI9GuxuvhJ4/TyivZS2YfUI/AAAAAAAAexU/kTkSn3lSKQ4/s800/IMG_0543.jpg" height="538" width="800" /></a>

    Dunno what they're calling it (Tower? Minute? Mower?!), but it's air sprung, tapered, 140mm travel, and with a simple, slick, tool-free 15mm TA.

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XiFgyxFX31Z9c__GGgwsqrNqVa4cxzZiKb61FvxUSvk?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-py_uUK5xF8E/Tyivap4rpRI/AAAAAAAAexc/ZfG2Zp8IYWg/s800/IMG_0625.jpg" height="538" width="800" /></a>

    Looking forward to a few days of red rock chunk on it this weekend.

    MC


    Very nice!!!!
    konahonzo

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    Nice shots as usual Mike. Not sure why all the hush, hush on the fork, pics were taken and shown way back last year when the proto was first brought to the US for Sea Otter, with the 140mm Tower fork, only difference was it didn't have the 15mm TA that we all knew they were going to be doing. Have they done anything with the stanchions? Guess you can't answer that yet. But from their comments seemed they weren't going up in size there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Not sure why all the hush, hush on the fork, pics were taken and shown way back last year
    Not the same chassis, nor damper, nor axle, nor crown, nor steerer. In other words, totally new from the ground up.

    Keep up these shenanigans and you'll lose your resident-know-it-all status...

  24. #24
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    Yeah, that 'proto' tower 140 we had at Sea Otter was really just an aesthetic proto, they told us that it was not a true indication of the real deal as they were still working on a bunch of things... From what I have heard the production Tower 140 (or whatever they are going to call it) will be a good fork... although personally I wish they had stuck with 20mm axle and not jumped on the 15mm band wagon, I guess they have to choose what they feel will sell best. I personally see no reason to reduce the stiffness without any real weight saving benefit (haha I am not a fan of 15mm axles if you hadn't guessed, I personally believe that they are just a marketing tool to sell new wheels and forks, feel free to try and sell it to me if you wish). That said, the Hex lock style axle that Manitou uses is definitely the stiffest axle design out there.
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  25. #25
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    Well that's good to hear Mike, but as Keith said, we knew it wouldn't be like what they had, but we knew it would be coming. Glad you know it all

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Not the same chassis, nor damper, nor axle, nor crown, nor steerer. In other words, totally new from the ground up.

    Keep up these shenanigans and you'll lose your resident-know-it-all status...
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Not the same chassis, nor damper, nor axle, nor crown, nor steerer. In other words, totally new from the ground up.

    Keep up these shenanigans and you'll lose your resident-know-it-all status...
    hahahahaha.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Well that's good to hear Mike, but as Keith said, we knew it wouldn't be like what they had, but we knew it would be coming. Glad you know it all
    that's a lot of "we's" in there. evidently you didn't know much about it. nice try though

  28. #28
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    Where does he get those wonderful toys?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Not the same chassis, nor damper, nor axle, nor crown, nor steerer. In other words, totally new from the ground up.

    Keep up these shenanigans and you'll lose your resident-know-it-all status...
    Still has a TPC Absolute+ damper. At least according to qbp's spec. And they are apparently expecting them in stock in a week.

    I agree with builttoride that it is a shame they have gone to the 15mm...seems like only the Revelation is available in a 20mm.
    Stop in at Element Sports. www.elementsport.com
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwiffle View Post
    Still has a TPC Absolute+ damper. At least according to qbp's spec. And they are apparently expecting them in stock in a week.

    I agree with builttoride that it is a shame they have gone to the 15mm...seems like only the Revelation is available in a 20mm.
    it does suck. 15mm is fox and shimano's way to make money. very little, if any weight savings over 20mm and less stiff. another industry standard no one was asking for like press fit bbs. an improvement over an existing standard is acceptable, 15mm isn't an improvement over 20mm

  31. #31
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    Couldn't agree more!
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Built and ridden.
    If I only get one word to describe it: Brickshithouse.



    More later.

    MC
    I love it, The Brickshithouse, best bike name ever!

  33. #33
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    Too bad Banshee didn't spec this bike with an Evolver as with many of their other frames. The inability for each rider to adjust hi/lo compression for their own weight and riding style is STUPID. It's like saying everyone should wear size 10 shoes
    bikesonburke

  34. #34
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    this thing has been consistently crushing BC terrain for a few weeks now.
    so impressed with the capabilities and performance of this machine.


  35. #35
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    You are lucky your BC terrain has less snow than my BC terrain....
    Like the sticker highlights!

  36. #36
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    Very curious about this bike now. Got some time on two 29 FS bikes this weekend. First, a RIP 9. I'm way faster on it then my Rune. Too steep in the HA for my liking.

    Today I got a few hours on the new Yeti SB-95. Was fun and felt a little more laxed, but was somewhat disappointed in its not-as-solid-as-I-expected department. Was expecting more of an allmountainy feel. It does pedal awesome for a 5inch 9er tho.

    Curios if anyone has ride time on either of those to compare? As a side not, I think Fox should make a 29 version of the 36 series.
    Last edited by Jwind; 03-04-2012 at 07:36 PM.

  37. #37
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    I've time on the V1 rip9 and a '05 Giant Trance and I can say for sure that the Prime pedals better than both of them and is most definitely a confidence giver when you point it down. Although I do have a RP23 with blown Pro Pedal I'm going to be throwing on the Prime in the next couple weeks to really see if this is true or not - had it on the rip9, pedaled like crap without platform - rides fantastic right now with the DHX5.
    If you like to work for your ride, then you might not like it though What I mean to say is, the damn thing all but pedals itself, thought my Paradox was the best climber I've had, WRONG, the Prime is, requires way less english and effort, front end just stays planted while the rear has gobs of traction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Very curious about this bike now. Got some time on two 29 FS bikes this weekend. First, a RIP 9. I'm way faster on it then my Rune. Too steep in the HA for my liking.

    Today I got a few hours on the new Yeti SB-95. Was fun and felt a little more laxed, but was somewhat disappointed in its not-as-solid-as-I-expected department. Was expecting more of an allmountainy feel. It does pedal awesome for a 5inch 9er tho.

    Curios if anyone has ride time on either of those to compare? As a side not, I think Fox should make a 29 version of the 26 series.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  38. #38
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    Skippy and I headed to the 5 Year Trail yesterday--it was his maiden voyage on the Prime.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/a7-OwOd6yhdslxrf2hrouY1O_uoH6pYgJGyAcIuOPYI?feat=embe dwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I2tn4ZZ4BmQ/T4IAIvWZxVI/AAAAAAAAfr8/zhLQPdBS30Q/s800/IMG_0350.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q-6ibFkNW3w_ICJLLFtUPo1O_uoH6pYgJGyAcIuOPYI?feat=emb edwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aTowkQd_8JQ/T4IAJwQ-XgI/AAAAAAAAfsE/HMH_D6YnYwU/s800/IMG_0391.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F9qKekcKQZ__wwT2UDAUXo1O_uoH6pYgJGyAcIuOPYI?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CfzYTBUOT-A/T4IALRJGWdI/AAAAAAAAfsM/NKJyUX-8mi4/s800/IMG_0406.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/T1DvHKSjDgl4uKbBBe_WII1O_uoH6pYgJGyAcIuOPYI?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q9PiWb14xKs/T4IAMzItVYI/AAAAAAAAfsU/gPV4rX2G284/s800/IMG_0444.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9sAjANIDdKqg-SPENwNzYY1O_uoH6pYgJGyAcIuOPYI?feat=embedwebsite"> <img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P_7lo_-dj-U/T4IAOptWGOI/AAAAAAAAfsc/nKT6CRlVyaY/s800/IMG_0435.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    This trail system is a slow-speed rock crawlers delight. He enjoyed the Prime enough that he asked to borrow it once more--to see how it flies.

    Might have pics of that later in the week.

    MC

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post


    This trail system is a slow-speed rock crawlers delight. He enjoyed the Prime enough that he asked to borrow it once more--to see how it flies.


    MC
    You rang?

    Looks fun.
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    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  40. #40
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    Time to move her along to a new home.

    See ad link in my sig, below.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Time to move her along to a new home.

    See ad link in my sig, below.
    Next question is: what will be replacing it?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Next question is: what will be replacing it?
    I've got a 120mm travel Lenz Mammoth for long XC/alpine days.

    And I've got a 150mm travel Lenz LunchBox for everything else.

    The Prime does a lot of things really, really well. But it didn't do anything well enough to replace either of the above.

    If I could only have one, then maybe the Prime would stay. But I have the luxury of being able to keep two dedicated MTB's in the stable, and the above two are the best I've found for me, where and how I ride.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've got a 120mm travel Lenz Mammoth for long XC/alpine days.

    And I've got a 150mm travel Lenz LunchBox for everything else.

    The Prime does a lot of things really, really well. But it didn't do anything well enough to replace either of the above.

    If I could only have one, then maybe the Prime would stay. But I have the luxury of being able to keep two dedicated MTB's in the stable, and the above two are the best I've found for me, where and how I ride.
    Really enjoy your ride impressions of these burlier 29er FS bikes. Hopefully you'll get the itch to try another one out soon.

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