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Thread: Prime sizing?

  1. #1
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    Prime sizing?

    Does anyone know if a small will be available Im 5'5' and think the med will be to big,I have a jet -9 and a yelli both small and they fit good.the yelli I had to slide the seat back a little(60mm stem).

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    I'm afraid that the Prime will only be avaliable in Medium, Large, and XL. But if you get a shot I'd try to get a test ride on a medium frame before you rule it out. I believe we have a couple of testers who are similar stature to you, who are loving it.
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    do you know when will they be available?

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    The design has been finalised, and submitted to forgers etc... but I don't want to give a time line just yet, as opening forgings and new hydroformings often come with complications and delays. When we have a confirmed date we will make sure everyone knows about it, but that will be a few months off.
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    thanks.....thats cool not in any rush... that will be the next prject

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    I'm 5'-8", so I can't really say if the medium is right for you or not..but I think with the right build it would "fit" fine, long as you aren't looking for that super compact flickable DJ-style handling.

    One thing that will make a big difference, do what you can to keep the bars low. Integral top headset top cup, no spacers and probably a flat bar. If there's anything that makes my prime feel big, it's the bar height, as a result I'm swapping headsets to lower them 1cm.

    The prime has really nice low standover & bb, seems like with a 35 or 50mm stem, in-line seatpost, and low bars it should "fit" you fine. It's a rad bike!
    Last edited by FM; 04-27-2012 at 08:31 AM.

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    On the stack height front, for production the prime with have a tapered zero stack compatible head tube to give the option of a low front end to those that ones it.
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    what travel fork is it built around?can you run a dual crown?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    It's a rad bike!
    Counting on it. Already put a deposit down, have my F34, Saint brakes, and XT cranks sitting on the bench, waiting for production.

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    It is designed around single crown forks in 120-160mm travel range.
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  11. #11
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    bump! I'm 6' 3" and wondering if I should go with L or XL. Based on measurements I typically go by, I fall right in the middle between L & XL. FWIW I am planning to run a 140mm fork and a short stem.

    Or, is there anyone with a Large in New England (Eastern MA) who might allow me to test-ride/test fit? I have a kitchen pass to buy a bike, and want to pre-order asap so I can ride it this season!

  12. #12
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    I was in your position, as I'm also 6'3" and the L/XL break seemed to be right around where my previous frames have been. I went with the L (with Keith's input, too) and can't overstate how pleased I am with that choice. I haven't looked at the production geometry in any detail, however, so I'm not certain what may have changed, if anything. For reference, I have a long torso and short legs. I buy 32" inseam jeans, or 33" if I find them. 34"s drag at the heels.

    I am now a firm believer in FM's advice to choose the smallest frame you can comfortably ride. For AM riding, at least. The bike doesn't need to fit me like a time trial bike, since I'm not stuck in a static position all day. I routinely do sequential 1,000' climbs around town, and 3,000 climbs out in the woods, so sustained climbing hasn't been an issue.

    My L Yelli Screamy has a slightly longer cockpit, and I actually find it a bit tougher on my back for sustained climbs. Both my bikes have 50mm stems, by the way.

    I still have 1 spacer under my stem, and I'm considering getting rid of it. My WFO9 had a stack height that looked ridiculous in photos (I see that a lot with that frame for some reason), but as the Prime encourages me to go (much) faster and corner more aggressively, the benefits of the lower stack are obvious.
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    My suggestion, go by your current bikes and how it fits you. If you like the fit, then measure the ETT, reach and stack and compare to the geo of the Prime, then select which is closest to it between the L and XL. Me, 6'2.25" tall, 35.25" inseam and long arms and find the XL with 70mm stem and 785mm wide bars perfect.

    I started out on a 24.5" ETT with my Giant Trance, but when I moved to 29ers got a 25.25" ETT and have stuck to that or a little longer since and been very happy, recently built up some 650B wheels and threw one upfront on the Trance to see how it felt and it felt cramped still with the shorter cockpit and wheelbase felt too twitchy @ 45.5". Don't worry about the long wheelbase of the Prime, it only matters when you measure it, other than that it doesn't ride/steer like the measurement might indicate it would.

    Attached pics of me on my XL Prime for comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by C.P. View Post
    bump! I'm 6' 3" and wondering if I should go with L or XL. Based on measurements I typically go by, I fall right in the middle between L & XL. FWIW I am planning to run a 140mm fork and a short stem.

    Or, is there anyone with a Large in New England (Eastern MA) who might allow me to test-ride/test fit? I have a kitchen pass to buy a bike, and want to pre-order asap so I can ride it this season!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Prime sizing?-capture3.jpg  

    Prime sizing?-gil_3089.jpg  

    Prime sizing?-gil_3063.jpg  

    Last edited by LyNx; 07-09-2012 at 08:55 AM.
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  14. #14
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    I'm a bit over 6'3" with a 34 inseam and the XL fits perfect with a 60 mm stem and 710 mm flat bar, for me the L would have been pretty small. I personally like the roomy-ness of the front end, especially for 3 - 4 hour rides with a bunch o' climbing, DH's aren't a problem either except for the tightest of hairpins.

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    Thanks for the input guys, I'm also 34" inseam. I tend to like the smallest frame I can fit on, since most of my rides involve some sort of cross-struntry/freeride aspects thrown in here/there; but I already have a (26") freeride specific bike, so I also want to be able to take this on a long (over 3 hours) rides and not feel held back by the setup, tough demands I know, but this is kinda why I have my eye on the Prime. I'd loved to get a test ride on either a L or XL, that would tell a lot.

  16. #16
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    Hey C.P. - I live in Burlington Ma and have a medium. I know it's not the sizes you asked about but if you want to meet up and check it out drop me a pm.

    Regards,
    SF

    Quote Originally Posted by C.P. View Post
    bump! I'm 6' 3" and wondering if I should go with L or XL. Based on measurements I typically go by, I fall right in the middle between L & XL. FWIW I am planning to run a 140mm fork and a short stem.

    Or, is there anyone with a Large in New England (Eastern MA) who might allow me to test-ride/test fit? I have a kitchen pass to buy a bike, and want to pre-order asap so I can ride it this season!
    The other Fred........

  17. #17
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    I want to preorder a prime but im not sure if i should go for the M oder L frame.

    size: 176cm with 77cm inseam.

    i tested a Santa Cruz LTa in L for a few days with a 6cm stem.
    reach and stack is nearly the same for a LTa in L and a Prime in M.

    The shorter seattube in the Prime M is fine for me. The seattube from the LTa was a little bit to long.
    The only big difference is that the Toptube lenght from the prime is 580mm and the one from the LTa is 610mm. So how much does those 30mm impact in the frame geo? When Reach and stack is nearly identical the seat will remain nearly in the same position, the only difference here is then the angel of the seattube is stepper so that reach and stack is identical but tube is 30mm shorter.
    im right with my assumption? if not please correct me.

    so what you guys think, what will fit me better, M or L? (if it matters: i like to make "tours" 1:30h - 3h and vertical climbs aswell)

  18. #18
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    My fit: 6'3" on a L

    I've gotten few PMs asking about my fit, so I'll pass on my $0.02 as someone who fell between the L and the XL. I'm 6'3" but with a long torso, short legs. I buy 32" jeans. Happy bike fit includes a lot of personal preference, so I'll try to spell out what I like, too.

    My previous 3 bikes all had 24.5" ETTs and that was the first number I looked at with the Prime. That's where I was waffling between L and XL. I hadn't learned to think in terms of reach/stack yet. I traded a couple emails with Keith after tying my brain in knots, and he encouraged me to stick with my first thought, the L. Niner didn't publish reach on their chart, so I had to figure it from an online calculator. 435mm is what I came up with, which is actually 5mm shorter than the Prime's 440mm reach. I was a little worried about the lower stack height, since the L Prime is 635mm versus the 667mm I calculated for my WFO9. Notice the (silly in hindsight) stack height in the photo below.

    Here's a picture of me standing with my L WFO9 (first generation). That thing felt really tall to me, particularly in the standover.

    Prime sizing?-pa180172.jpg

    And me with my L Prime.

    Prime sizing?-primemta.jpg

    And for comparison, here's a friend of mine on my Prime. He's a hair under 5'11" but has legs slightly longer than mine (buys 34" jeans). He currently rides a M Knolly Endorphin but is planning to move to a L frame on his next build. He liked the fit of the L Prime.

    Prime sizing?-photo-aug-05-7-49-53-pm.jpg

    EDIT: added this photo of him from a slightly different angle. The frame doesn't look quite so long in this perspective.

    Prime sizing?-photo-aug-05-7-49-39-pm.jpg

    I have had stretched-out XC fits before (see my EMD9 below)

    Prime sizing?-img_1182.jpg

    but for this class of bike I prefer a more upright riding position. I want room to move the bike around underneath me. My short legs probably play into this a bit - I'd have a hard time with the XL. My home trails include 1-2 mile climbs that are 400-600 feet/mile, and when we get out into the woods, we climb USFS trails that average 500 feet/mile for 5-6 miles. I'm quite happy with the L for those climbs. I move around the cockpit a bit and stand occasionally, so I find fit is a bit forgiving in a AM bike.

    Hope that helps a few of you. You're going to love it. Fire away with questions if I've forgotten something or been unclear.
    Last edited by evasive; 08-15-2012 at 02:07 PM. Reason: added a photo
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I've gotten few PMs asking about my fit, so I'll pass on my $0.02 as someone who fell between the L and the XL. I'm 6'3" but with a long torso, short legs. I buy 32" jeans. Happy bike fit includes a lot of personal preference, so I'll try to spell out what I like, too.

    My previous 3 bikes all had 24.5" ETTs and that was the first number I looked at with the Prime. That's where I was waffling between L and XL. I hadn't learned to think in terms of reach/stack yet. I traded a couple emails with Keith after tying my brain in knots, and he encouraged me to stick with my first thought, the L. Niner didn't publish reach on their chart, so I had to figure it from an online calculator. 435mm is what I came up with, which is actually 5mm shorter than the Prime's 440mm reach. I was a little worried about the lower stack height, since the L Prime is 635mm versus the 667mm I calculated for my WFO9. Notice the (silly in hindsight) stack height in the photo below.

    Here's a picture of me standing with my L WFO9 (first generation). That thing felt really tall to me, particularly in the standover.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And me with my L Prime.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And for comparison, here's a friend of mine on my Prime. He's a hair under 5'11" but has legs slightly longer than mine (buys 34" jeans). He currently rides a M Knolly Endorphin but is planning to move to a L frame on his next build. He liked the fit of the L Prime.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    EDIT: added this photo of him from a slightly different angle. The frame doesn't look quite so long in this perspective.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have had stretched-out XC fits before (see my EMD9 below)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    but for this class of bike I prefer a more upright riding position. I want room to move the bike around underneath me. My short legs probably play into this a bit - I'd have a hard time with the XL. My home trails include 1-2 mile climbs that are 400-600 feet/mile, and when we get out into the woods, we climb USFS trails that average 500 feet/mile for 5-6 miles. I'm quite happy with the L for those climbs. I move around the cockpit a bit and stand occasionally, so I find fit is a bit forgiving in a AM bike.

    Hope that helps a few of you. You're going to love it. Fire away with questions if I've forgotten something or been unclear.
    Very informative on your "comparison" with the Niner sizing, with that said, I want to translate my sizing to the Prime, I know it's like comparing apples and oranges in terms of geometry but I hope I can come up with a decision when the time comes to get a Prime. I am 6ft flat and an inseam of 34", proportional torso and limbs.

    I ride a '99 RIP9 L and the sizing for me is perfect when I do casual trail riding but when it comes to fast tight corners and jumps, I wished I got the M. I did demo a 99 WFO medium, and I felt that I was at home with it. Now I think I am a tweener between the Medium and Large with the production geo of the Prime. You input would be much appreciated...BTW, I live in the Philippines and it's very rare to try out demo bikes out here. Thanks!

  20. #20
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    It sounds to me like you have it figured out. You could probably be comfortable on either, but let yourself be guided by your intended use. Assuming you can get the saddle height you want, it sounds like the M is what you're looking for. Are you keeping your current bike? If you are, then the decision is even easier.

    I'm in the field and on my phone, but IIRC, the Prime's reach measurement is slightly longer than the WFO (confirm that with the production geometry chart). If that is the case, the Prime may feel slightly roomier than the WFO you tried out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    It sounds to me like you have it figured out. You could probably be comfortable on either, but let yourself be guided by your intended use. Assuming you can get the saddle height you want, it sounds like the M is what you're looking for. Are you keeping your current bike? If you are, then the decision is even easier.

    I'm in the field and on my phone, but IIRC, the Prime's reach measurement is slightly longer than the WFO (confirm that with the production geometry chart). If that is the case, the Prime may feel slightly roomier than the WFO you tried out.
    You certainly are right, I think I answered my own question. haha. I'm keeping my current bike. I do want to take the prime on the occasional weekend DH races and FR romps ( no big ass drops and the like) round my place and pretty much make it an alternative to my RIP as an AM bike. thanks for the enlightenment! Now it's much easier to make my decision size wise, now if I can only sell my soul...

  22. #22
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    G'day!

    I'm currently at a loss. Was aiming for a L Prime and ride a rigid SS Kona Unit 29er in 19" which fit me fine. The Prime will mostly do Trail duty and I'm a clyde that is kind of rough with my bikes so I think it will do just fine.

    At 186 cm with 89 cm inseam I have my saddle at 82,5 cm from center BB according to the BG-fit I did last year.

    Haven't had the opportunity to testride a lot of 29ers and then today I tested an XL Spec Stumpy FSR which fit me incredibly well, even with a 90 mm stem. All legs and arms I guess? It has a reach of 466 and a stack of 656.

    The L Prime has 440 reach and the XL 470 reach and they both have a stack of 633 according to the official numbers.

    Seems like an XL Prime would fit me fine with a 60 mm stem? I've never ridden that large a bike ever. Scares me a little.

    Do you guys have any input? Don't want to buy the wrong size so to speak.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfuel View Post
    G'day!

    Do you guys have any input? Don't want to buy the wrong size so to speak.
    Not to be a broken record, but I would always reccomend the smaller size, when in doubt. Benefits of the smaller frame being shorter wheelbase- quicker turning and easier to lift the front end! Both good things especially with big wheels

    35mm difference in top tube length and wheelbase between the L and XL.

    You're only 10cm taller than I am, and I am on a medium proto with a 50mm stem. Hard to believe you'd want to ride a bike 2 sizes larger.... although the protos do fit a tiny bit larger than the production frames. A stretched out fit may feel comfortable, but may sacrifice handling to get that roomy fit. Wider bars make bikes feel larger, so I'd max out the bar width before you put a longer stem on or upsize the frame.

    Just my .02c... take it with a grain of salt as I'm 175cm.

  24. #24
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    And yet here I am, not even a 1/4" shorter than you (6'2"), I'm on an XL proto with 70mm stem and 785mm bar I've always ridden bikes with a ETT of 24.5" or longer and since moving to 29ers have been above 25". I have a 35.25" inseam and very long arms, so I think we're of quite similar builds.

    Biggest deciding factor is your intended usage for the bike. For me I like big chunky, slow, steep and the stability the XL gives me is unreal, I also don't leave the ground much if any, so having the larger bike isn't as much of a concern. My bike is an all around bike I use for anywhere from XC to I guess you could say Trail/light AM and the 48" WB has not given me ANY trouble on any of my tight, technical trails, if anything I've cleared more since I got the Prime - stalling and sticking are easier and response when I pedal kick is right on. FYI, I cam off riding an XL Paradox for 1.5 years with a 45" WB and yet, for me somehow (still haven't quite figured this out yet) the Prime's handling with it's 48" WB just doesn't feel that much different - actually only felt it when I initially hoped on it.

    I'd love to try a L Prime for sure, just to see how it would feel, but I don't have the luxury to even see another Banshee down here except my Paradox, so it'd be a costly experiment to buy and ship one in.

    Couple pics of me next to my XL Prime and on it, more pics above. If you like to sit more upright than that, then I'd think the L would do you fine, for me in that position I feel quite "sat up".

    Quote Originally Posted by rocketfuel View Post
    G'day!
    Seems like an XL Prime would fit me fine with a 60 mm stem? I've never ridden that large a bike ever. Scares me a little.

    Do you guys have any input? Don't want to buy the wrong size so to speak.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Not to be a broken record, but I would always reccomend the smaller size, when in doubt. Benefits of the smaller frame being shorter wheelbase- quicker turning and easier to lift the front end! Both good things especially with big wheels

    35mm difference in top tube length and wheelbase between the L and XL.

    You're only 10cm taller than I am, and I am on a medium proto with a 50mm stem. Hard to believe you'd want to ride a bike 2 sizes larger.... although the protos do fit a tiny bit larger than the production frames. A stretched out fit may feel comfortable, but may sacrifice handling to get that roomy fit. Wider bars make bikes feel larger, so I'd max out the bar width before you put a longer stem on or upsize the frame.

    Just my .02c... take it with a grain of salt as I'm 175cm.


    Last edited by LyNx; 09-23-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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  25. #25
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    I'm 193 cm with an 87 cm inseam (converted from my previous post)and ride an XL with a 60 mm stem and 710 mm bars and it fits me for the fast tight twisty singletrack and long rides where I live. I'm with FM on this one, I'd push you towards the L if you don't have the monkey arms of LyNx
    Do you have the opportunity to take out a L Stumpy? It's numbers seem close to the L Prime in the stack and reach....

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