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  1. #1
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    Prime/Rune Dropouts/Hangers

    I had originally ordered my Prime to come stock with the 142x12 drops, and also ordered an additional set of the 150x12 as well, for the burlier wheelset riding days. The frame arrived (errantly) with 135x10. I called the shop & had them resolve the error by sending out the proper dropouts. Finally, today, the 150's arrived (142's enroute), but clearly they do not ship with hangers and the 150mm requires a different hanger. Can anyone confirm whether the 142 & 150 share the same hanger, or will I need 3 different hangers to run the various drops?

    Many thanks in advance
    Last edited by jncarpenter; 12-17-2012 at 04:18 PM.


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I had originally ordered my Prime to come stock with the 142x12 drops, and also ordered an additional set of the 150x12 as well, for the burlier wheelset riding days. The frame arrived (errantly) with 135x10. I called the shop & had them resolve the error by sending out the proper dropouts. Finally, today, the 150's arrived (142's enroute), but clearly they do not ship with hangers and the 150mm requires a different hanger. Can anyone confirm whether the 142 & 150 share the same hanger, or will I need 3 different hangers to run the various drops?

    Many thanks in advance
    I'm pretty sure I'd read that the 150 and 142 will share the same hangars (also found on the Legends). I doubt the Banshee guys would make things more complicated than need be.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    I'm pretty sure I'd read that the 150 and 142 will share the same hangars (also found on the Legends). I doubt the Banshee guys would make things more complicated than need be.
    That's what I was hoping...I have an email in to Keith to confirm as well.

    EDIT: For anyone interested, here was Keith's response:

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    Thanks,
    Keith"
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    Last edited by jncarpenter; 12-18-2012 at 03:34 AM.


  4. #4
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    Thankfully, the 142x12 drops arrived today, and indeed included not only the hanger, but another set of the flip chips as well


  5. #5
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    Anyone out there running the production frame with the 142x12 drops? I have a couple questions for you...


  6. #6
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    I do.

  7. #7
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    What wheel are you running in the rear?
    Any issues with the wheel being centered in the stays?


  8. #8
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    lbs built Stans 3.30HD on Flow EX rims, it is centered last time i eye-balled it, i can measure it today
    Last edited by sakucee; 12-20-2012 at 06:56 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    What wheel are you running in the rear?
    Any issues with the wheel being centered in the stays?
    142x12, currently testing a soon-to-be released Spank all mtn wheelset. Straight, true, and centered.

  10. #10
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    Normal flow nds 25.5mm, Drive side 28.3mm, hub Hope 2 PRO

    Flow EX nds 26mm, Drive side 27mm, hub Stans 3.30HD

    Measured from seat stay -> rim edge

    Nothing major, could be easily down to wheel dish/throw on rim also?

  11. #11
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    Thanks guys...I think I have it sorted. The I9 axle has a wide range of adjustment at the bearing preload. I didn't realize this at first, and the wheel was way offset to the non-drive side. Now that I have it properly setup, the wheel is essentially centered. Chalk it up to user error


  12. #12
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    OK...so maybe not there yet

    This morning I mocked it up without the cassette installed, nor the brake caliper, to just check the wheel alignment...all seemed good to go. Tonight, I installed the derailleur and cassette...that's where things went awry.

    Both the der. & caliper seem far to outboard with the wheel centered! I am new to the 142x12 standard, but from what I understand, it is just extending the axle 3.5mm on either side with the same flange width & spacing otherwise. I cannot get my hope brakes to not drag without a ton of spacers, and the rear der. seems it would need to be reset a full gear to avoid dropping off the bottom.

    IMHO, you should be able to swap out 135x10 wheels w/ corresponding drops for the 142x12 WITHOUT having to reset the der. cable or realign brake caliper...right? I can do this going from 135x10 to 150x12 with the current setup.

    The Banshee 142 drops do not have the relieved portion that all other 142 drops I have seen have...can this be the culprit? The 142 drops are clearly not placing the IS mounts in the same location as the 135 (same with the der. hanger location.

    I'm sure most w/ the 142 rears are setting up the der. for the first time & didn't notice a difference...but did anyone else have a hard time setting up the rear brake to avoid rotor drag without spacing the caliper inboard?


  13. #13
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    I had to put 2 washers on my XTR is-pm adapter, that being said, i had to use 1 washer with B29 frame too, didn't think much of it, also had no problems getting 10spd XT shadow working.

    Can't compare between 135mm and 142, don't have 135 dropouts, i doubt the lack of releived portion can make any difference since the spacing is still 142 where it counts?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    Can't compare between 135mm and 142, don't have 135 dropouts, i doubt the lack of releived portion can make any difference since the spacing is still 142 where it counts?
    Not true at all, it could mean that the location of the IS mounts & the rear der. mount are each 3.5mm too far outboard (which would explain what I am experiencing). The axle is 142mm wide (7mm wider than the 135mm), but the rotor & der. placement should remain fixed. I'm hoping there is a simple solution, but I don't want to have to redo my der. every time I want to swap out wheels.

    If I am using the same exact wheel, with 2 different axle standards, and the wheel is centered between the stays/drops in each case, why would I need to change my brake/der. setup?


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    Measure distance between brake side adapter and hub flange where brake disk mounts (without a disc of course) that should tell you the difference?

  16. #16
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    I don't need to measure, since it is the same wheel. One sets up superb (135mm), the other requires ~3mm of spacers to even turn the rear wheel without major drag.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I don't need to measure, since it is the same wheel. One sets up superb (135mm), the other requires ~3mm of spacers to even turn the rear wheel without major drag.
    Hmmm weird, Hope PRO2 and Stans 3.30HD have same adapter length on brake side (within few 1/10ths of a mm), i spaced my adapter out 2mm with washers and i can center XTR caliper dead middle of the track with this setup, but like i said, can't try out with 135mm since all i got is 142 hubs these days..

  18. #18
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    It's not the brake caliper that is the PITA so much (easy enough to throw in a spacer or 3 ), but the der. adjustment required anytime I want to throw on my burly 150mm wheels. Not a deal breaker, but I wonder if an oversight was made somewhere?


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    The Banshee 142 drops do not have the relieved portion that all other 142 drops I have seen have...can this be the culprit? The 142 drops are clearly not placing the IS mounts in the same location as the 135 (same with the der. hanger location.
    I thought the relieved portion was one of the main reasons for the 142x12 standard, enabling easier wheel installation. Otherwise, it's no better than 135x12. Tech Speak: 142×12, What’s the Big Idea? - Bike Rumor

    From the article linked above:
    Pros of 142 x 12:
    •Larger captured axle means stiffer, stronger rear end and less deflection of rear hub
    •Easier wheel installation than 135×12 or 135×10 QR
    •Due to its design, the thru axle satisfies CSPC wheel retention requirements in an extremely simple and repeatable manner
    •Design guarantees the same wheel alignment each time the wheel is removed and installed
    •Retains the same chainline as 135 QR wheels, which means no bearing on Q-Factor (going to a wider hub, say 150, would require the use of a wider BB, therefore increasing Q-factor)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly View Post
    I thought the relieved portion was one of the main reasons for the 142x12 standard, enabling easier wheel installation. Tech Speak: 142×12, What’s the Big Idea? - Bike Rumor

    From the article linked above:
    Exactly! Well...there is the larger axle as well, but I was surprised to find they didn't have the relieved channels for ease of installation/better capture (their iteration is no less a pain than the current 150x12 to install).
    Last edited by jncarpenter; 12-20-2012 at 04:05 PM.


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    Maybe a picture can save me a thousand words

    You can see below, the length of axle extending past the end of the cassette carrier on both 142mm (left) and the 135/150mm wheels (with calipers I measured ~10mm for the 142 & ~6.3 on the other two). Since the hanger is essentially flush with the inside of all drops (all are similar thickness), obviously a significant der. adjustment will be required to swap wheels.

    If the 142mm drop was 3.5mm thicker inboard, and relieved 3.5mm for the axle (moving the hanger that much inboard as well), the der. would end up in essentially the same location for all wheels.

    Assume the same for the non-drive side.

    Last edited by jncarpenter; 12-21-2012 at 04:41 PM.


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    "The hangers used on the 150x12 and 142x12 dropouts are the same for all our bike models to keep things nice and easy"
    To whom? - having to space out the IS-PM adaptor is annoying and shouldnt really be neccesary... on any modern frame and why even offer 142mm dropouts if its not the full package with a recessed channel?

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    Hum, I'd have to concur with Marshall on this one, absolutely. The only reason to do the new 142 standard is exactly for this as otherwise there's always 135x12. I can very easily see the hanger and caliper fixing points being off, if by chance the step to do the slots got forgotten somehow as they're about the depth of the spacing between 2 cogs - not quite sure how that's really possible since everything would then have to account for that extra.

    Sadly the only company who's done anything useful with the 142 standard is SpecialED - they actually widened their hub flanges, which to me is what should have been done if it was a proper standard, but that's something a lot of people wouldn't do to gain so little over 135, so they made it something that could work with existing hubs that use end caps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly View Post
    I thought the relieved portion was one of the main reasons for the 142x12 standard, enabling easier wheel installation. Otherwise, it's no better than 135x12. Tech Speak: 142×12, What’s the Big Idea? - Bike Rumor

    From the article linked above:
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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    Hmmm. this is a bit disturbing news about the 142 drops with no relief. Without seeing them would the meat not be enough if the cutout was there or not enough material to attach the hanger. Just tossing out random thoughts as to why. IMO you shouldn't have to go messing around with caliper and RD adjustments other than very slightly with different dropouts. Need an answer from Banshee on this one.
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    Sadly the only company who's done anything useful with the 142 standard is SpecialED - they actually widened their hub flanges, which to me is what should have been done if it was a proper standard, but that's something a lot of people wouldn't do to gain so little over 135, so they made it something that could work with existing hubs that use end caps.
    To bad their 142+ hubs are prone to self destructing. Many threads about that problem.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    To bad their 142+ hubs are prone to self destructing. Many threads about that problem.
    +1 on that, their hubs are garbage.
    Plus the spacing between the dropouts should be the same as 142's, the extra 7mm's comes in in the recessed area so the width of the flanges should be the same regardless. Some manufacturers flanges are just wider than others...

    Strange that Banshee didn't recess the 142's though, doesn't make sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Maybe a picture can save me a thousand words

    JNC, love to see a picture of the drop-outs... definitely fishy if they aren't recessed...

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    I made the descisoon not to recess the dropouts for a few reasons.

    #1 It would have meant increasing the mold size for the forging, which would have meant increasing the price of the dropouts to the customer by a minimum of $20 (likely a bit more once import tax, dealer and distributor margins etc are added on).

    #2 I actually find the wheel is easier to put in place without the recess as you can slide it in forward of the derailleur (making most of large tire clearance) and then pull back into location.... the brake caliper will help you keep it vertically aligned anyway.

    #3 I've never had any issue mounting a wheel on my DH bike, or proto KS bikes that made me ever feel the need for an extra 'cup' of material to justify the extra weight and cost.

    If it turns out that our customers decide that this is something they really want, then I'll listen and change the mold and pricing, but I suspect most will see beyond the marketing and realize that putting the wheel in place is easy without the recess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I made the descisoon not to recess the dropouts for a few reasons.

    #1 It would have meant increasing the mold size for the forging, which would have meant increasing the price of the dropouts to the customer by a minimum of $20 (likely a bit more once import tax, dealer and distributor margins etc are added on).

    #2 I actually find the wheel is easier to put in place without the recess as you can slide it in forward of the derailleur (making most of large tire clearance) and then pull back into location.... the brake caliper will help you keep it vertically aligned anyway.

    #3 I've never had any issue mounting a wheel on my DH bike, or proto KS bikes that made me ever feel the need for an extra 'cup' of material to justify the extra weight and cost.

    If it turns out that our customers decide that this is something they really want, then I'll listen and change the mold and pricing, but I suspect most will see beyond the marketing and realize that putting the wheel in place is easy without the recess.
    The ease of installation is really not a huge deal for me, tho it would be a benefit. However, the fact that these drops essentially move the hanger & IS mounts 3.5mm outboard is a big deal to me. The only reason I bought the drops was to give me the option of running a lighter "trail" set of wheels, as well as a burlier set of wheels setup with the 150 hub/drops. At this point I think I would prefer to run the lighter wheelset with the 135mm drops, since it easily allows me to swap wheels without having to re-tune the der. as well as mess with the caliper alignment.

    I am sure folks can successfully get a der. to shift fine if they stick with one rear wheel, as well as space the caliper inboard with shims, but I might swap wheels a couple times a week and it's just not worth the hassle imho.


    FM...here is a pic of the drops, sans hanger. This is the inside of each.



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    Wheel installation is not an issue here either but having to shim the caliper adaptor by 3.5mm really is a huge turn off. Banshee´s answer makes sense though the caliper mounting issue isnt explained, judging form the dropout structure i dont see why not atleast the IS adaptor tab surface could be +3.5mm offest/inboard. Banshee?

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    Can't we machine the 135mm dropouts 3,5mm to make the channels and keep using the 142mm hub?

    Maybe create not a groove, but an area that allows the wheel to come from either downward or forward.

    Like, remove 3,5mm form the orange area:


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    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    Can't we machine the 135mm dropouts 3,5mm to make the channels and keep using the 142mm hub?

    Maybe create not a groove, but an area that allows the wheel to come from either downward or forward.

    Like, remove 3,5mm form the orange area:

    No, the spacing between drops is already 142mm...you would need a longer axle to do what you're suggesting.


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    I meant to machine the 135mm dropouts, but now I have seen they are 135x10...

    I thought that 142 was supposed to be just like 135mm in terms of disc calliper and rear dérailleur, and those 3,5mm grooves to easy with wheel install...

    Kinda wishing I had ordered another size of dropouts, I find the grooves to help with wheel install (having an old marzo 66 and a fox 36, the grooves in the fox 36 really help... In the Marzo you need to either have a 2nd person helping you, have it on a stand, or flip the bike upside down). One cannot lift the frame, hold the wheel and insert the axle at the same time. The grooves should enable the wheel to rest in the correct position

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    I thought that 142 was supposed to be just like 135mm in terms of disc calliper and rear dérailleur, and those 3,5mm grooves to easy with wheel install...
    Yes, exactly right

    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    Kinda wishing I had ordered another size of dropouts, I find the grooves to help with wheel install (having an old marzo 66 and a fox 36, the grooves in the fox 36 really help... In the Marzo you need to either have a 2nd person helping you, have it on a stand, or flip the bike upside down). One cannot lift the frame, hold the wheel and insert the axle at the same time. The grooves should enable the wheel to rest in the correct position
    I agree, the one benefit of the QR15 standard for forks is the ease of install compared to 20mm. It seems Banshee designed a set of dropouts that accomodate a 142mm axle, however it should not be associated with the current industry standard for 142x12 since the der./caliper mounts are in different locations.

    I have no doubt folks can setup their bikes to make it work, but as I stated previously, disappointing for anyone wanting to run more than one type of rear wheel axle.
    Last edited by jncarpenter; 12-23-2012 at 07:28 AM.


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    Hmm, I have the standard 135mmX10mm dropouts for the 26" wheels, but ordered the 142mmX12mm dropouts for the 650b wheels. If I have to screw with caliper spacers and cable adjustments every time I switch, I'll never bother switching. Actually, spacing the calipers is no big deal, since I could just glue a shim to the dropout, but cable adjustments leave kinks that affect performance and cable life. I wonder if it's possible to shim the hanger...

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    I guess you can do it, maybe not with round shims, they might need some cutting, and even then, there is a tab on the derailleur, that usually hits the hanger, The shims need the derailleur to hit the tab.

    I would gladly pay 20$ more for 142 dropouts that really mimic the 135 in terms of caliper and derailleur spacing, and make not a groove, but a recessed area in the shape from my pic (or something similar that allows the wheel to come from below and front, and we slide it up and back and it notches in place). Just an idea, but I'd really like to see that

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    Quote Originally Posted by belljeffw View Post
    I wonder if it's possible to shim the hanger...
    Not inboard, also the axle sits flush against the hanger...soo it wouldn't be possible without a hanger redesign.


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    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    I would gladly pay 20$ more for 142 dropouts that really mimic the 135 in terms of caliper and derailleur spacing...
    ...as would I.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    ...as would I.
    X3... or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g_g View Post
    i would gladly pay 20$ more for 142 dropouts that really mimic the 135 in terms of caliper and derailleur spacing...
    x4...

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    I am considering a 650b Spitty for the Missus to replace her Sultan...anyone know what axle formats the 650b drops are available in?


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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Not inboard, also the axle sits flush against the hanger...soo it wouldn't be possible without a hanger redesign.
    Oh yea, good point. In theory I could make a hanger, but that would be pushing my meager machining skills to the limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I am considering a 650b Spitty for the Missus to replace her Sultan...anyone know what axle formats the 650b drops are available in?
    So far, ONLY 142X12, at least for the Rune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by belljeffw View Post
    So far, ONLY 142X12, at least for the Rune.
    That's what I was afraid of...


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    I may make my own 135X10 for the 650b. They look pretty easy to make, even on my little mill. I wonder if Keith would part with the CAD drawings...

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    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    I would gladly pay 20$ more for 142 dropouts that really mimic the 135 in terms of caliper and derailleur spacing.

    Me too.
    Last edited by Marshall Willanholly; 12-23-2012 at 02:36 PM.

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    I know that you guys are concerned more with the 142mm drop outs, but I just installed my 150's Friday with no problems. Slight barrel adjust up on my shifter, loosen and re-center of my caliper. 150mm e*thirteen LG1+ made a heck of a difference over a 135mm DT Swiss 240s.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I know that you guys are concerned more with the 142mm drop outs, but I just installed my 150's Friday with no problems. Slight barrel adjust up on my shifter, loosen and re-center of my caliper. 150mm e*thirteen LG1+ made a heck of a difference over a 135mm DT Swiss 240s.
    Coming from 135 or 142? I have no necessary adjustments going from 135 to 150...or back.

    Agreed, the 150mm rear is a big upgrade in stiffness!


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    Where did you guys get your 150mm drops?

    Also is the Prime "yellow" the same as the new Rune? If so, I might have to go all crazy with a yellow one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Where did you guys get your 150mm drops?
    I got mine from CHAD.


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