• 12-17-2012
    jncarpenter
    Prime/Rune Dropouts/Hangers
    I had originally ordered my Prime to come stock with the 142x12 drops, and also ordered an additional set of the 150x12 as well, for the burlier wheelset riding days. The frame arrived (errantly) with 135x10. I called the shop & had them resolve the error by sending out the proper dropouts. Finally, today, the 150's arrived (142's enroute), but clearly they do not ship with hangers and the 150mm requires a different hanger. Can anyone confirm whether the 142 & 150 share the same hanger, or will I need 3 different hangers to run the various drops?

    Many thanks in advance :)
  • 12-17-2012
    MartinS
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I had originally ordered my Prime to come stock with the 142x12 drops, and also ordered an additional set of the 150x12 as well, for the burlier wheelset riding days. The frame arrived (errantly) with 135x10. I called the shop & had them resolve the error by sending out the proper dropouts. Finally, today, the 150's arrived (142's enroute), but clearly they do not ship with hangers and the 150mm requires a different hanger. Can anyone confirm whether the 142 & 150 share the same hanger, or will I need 3 different hangers to run the various drops?

    Many thanks in advance :)

    I'm pretty sure I'd read that the 150 and 142 will share the same hangars (also found on the Legends). I doubt the Banshee guys would make things more complicated than need be.
  • 12-17-2012
    jncarpenter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    I'm pretty sure I'd read that the 150 and 142 will share the same hangars (also found on the Legends). I doubt the Banshee guys would make things more complicated than need be.

    That's what I was hoping...I have an email in to Keith to confirm as well. :thumbsup:

    EDIT: For anyone interested, here was Keith's response:

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    Thanks,
    Keith"
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  • 12-18-2012
    jncarpenter
    Thankfully, the 142x12 drops arrived today, and indeed included not only the hanger, but another set of the flip chips as well :)
  • 12-19-2012
    jncarpenter
    Anyone out there running the production frame with the 142x12 drops? I have a couple questions for you...
  • 12-20-2012
    sakucee
    I do.
  • 12-20-2012
    jncarpenter
    What wheel are you running in the rear?
    Any issues with the wheel being centered in the stays?
  • 12-20-2012
    sakucee
    lbs built Stans 3.30HD on Flow EX rims, it is centered last time i eye-balled it, i can measure it today
  • 12-20-2012
    general lee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    What wheel are you running in the rear?
    Any issues with the wheel being centered in the stays?

    142x12, currently testing a soon-to-be released Spank all mtn wheelset. Straight, true, and centered.
  • 12-20-2012
    sakucee
    Normal flow nds 25.5mm, Drive side 28.3mm, hub Hope 2 PRO

    Flow EX nds 26mm, Drive side 27mm, hub Stans 3.30HD

    Measured from seat stay -> rim edge

    Nothing major, could be easily down to wheel dish/throw on rim also?
  • 12-20-2012
    jncarpenter
    Thanks guys...I think I have it sorted. The I9 axle has a wide range of adjustment at the bearing preload. I didn't realize this at first, and the wheel was way offset to the non-drive side. Now that I have it properly setup, the wheel is essentially centered. Chalk it up to user error :D
  • 12-20-2012
    jncarpenter
    OK...so maybe not there yet :( :madman:

    This morning I mocked it up without the cassette installed, nor the brake caliper, to just check the wheel alignment...all seemed good to go. Tonight, I installed the derailleur and cassette...that's where things went awry.

    Both the der. & caliper seem far to outboard with the wheel centered! I am new to the 142x12 standard, but from what I understand, it is just extending the axle 3.5mm on either side with the same flange width & spacing otherwise. I cannot get my hope brakes to not drag without a ton of spacers, and the rear der. seems it would need to be reset a full gear to avoid dropping off the bottom.

    IMHO, you should be able to swap out 135x10 wheels w/ corresponding drops for the 142x12 WITHOUT having to reset the der. cable or realign brake caliper...right? I can do this going from 135x10 to 150x12 with the current setup.

    The Banshee 142 drops do not have the relieved portion that all other 142 drops I have seen have...can this be the culprit? The 142 drops are clearly not placing the IS mounts in the same location as the 135 (same with the der. hanger location.

    I'm sure most w/ the 142 rears are setting up the der. for the first time & didn't notice a difference...but did anyone else have a hard time setting up the rear brake to avoid rotor drag without spacing the caliper inboard?
  • 12-20-2012
    sakucee
    I had to put 2 washers on my XTR is-pm adapter, that being said, i had to use 1 washer with B29 frame too, didn't think much of it, also had no problems getting 10spd XT shadow working.

    Can't compare between 135mm and 142, don't have 135 dropouts, i doubt the lack of releived portion can make any difference since the spacing is still 142 where it counts?
  • 12-20-2012
    jncarpenter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    Can't compare between 135mm and 142, don't have 135 dropouts, i doubt the lack of releived portion can make any difference since the spacing is still 142 where it counts?

    Not true at all, it could mean that the location of the IS mounts & the rear der. mount are each 3.5mm too far outboard (which would explain what I am experiencing). The axle is 142mm wide (7mm wider than the 135mm), but the rotor & der. placement should remain fixed. I'm hoping there is a simple solution, but I don't want to have to redo my der. every time I want to swap out wheels.

    If I am using the same exact wheel, with 2 different axle standards, and the wheel is centered between the stays/drops in each case, why would I need to change my brake/der. setup?
  • 12-20-2012
    sakucee
    Measure distance between brake side adapter and hub flange where brake disk mounts (without a disc of course) that should tell you the difference?
  • 12-20-2012
    jncarpenter
    I don't need to measure, since it is the same wheel. One sets up superb (135mm), the other requires ~3mm of spacers to even turn the rear wheel without major drag.
  • 12-20-2012
    sakucee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    I don't need to measure, since it is the same wheel. One sets up superb (135mm), the other requires ~3mm of spacers to even turn the rear wheel without major drag.

    Hmmm weird, Hope PRO2 and Stans 3.30HD have same adapter length on brake side (within few 1/10ths of a mm), i spaced my adapter out 2mm with washers and i can center XTR caliper dead middle of the track with this setup, but like i said, can't try out with 135mm since all i got is 142 hubs these days..
  • 12-20-2012
    jncarpenter
    It's not the brake caliper that is the PITA so much (easy enough to throw in a spacer or 3 ;)), but the der. adjustment required anytime I want to throw on my burly 150mm wheels. Not a deal breaker, but I wonder if an oversight was made somewhere?
  • 12-20-2012
    Marshall Willanholly
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    The Banshee 142 drops do not have the relieved portion that all other 142 drops I have seen have...can this be the culprit? The 142 drops are clearly not placing the IS mounts in the same location as the 135 (same with the der. hanger location.

    I thought the relieved portion was one of the main reasons for the 142x12 standard, enabling easier wheel installation. Otherwise, it's no better than 135x12. Tech Speak: 142×12, What’s the Big Idea? - Bike Rumor

    From the article linked above:
    Quote:

    Pros of 142 x 12:
    •Larger captured axle means stiffer, stronger rear end and less deflection of rear hub
    •Easier wheel installation than 135×12 or 135×10 QR
    •Due to its design, the thru axle satisfies CSPC wheel retention requirements in an extremely simple and repeatable manner
    •Design guarantees the same wheel alignment each time the wheel is removed and installed
    •Retains the same chainline as 135 QR wheels, which means no bearing on Q-Factor (going to a wider hub, say 150, would require the use of a wider BB, therefore increasing Q-factor)
  • 12-20-2012
    jncarpenter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly View Post
    I thought the relieved portion was one of the main reasons for the 142x12 standard, enabling easier wheel installation. Tech Speak: 142×12, What’s the Big Idea? - Bike Rumor

    From the article linked above:

    Exactly! Well...there is the larger axle as well, but I was surprised to find they didn't have the relieved channels for ease of installation/better capture (their iteration is no less a pain than the current 150x12 to install).
  • 12-21-2012
    jncarpenter
    Maybe a picture can save me a thousand words :)

    You can see below, the length of axle extending past the end of the cassette carrier on both 142mm (left) and the 135/150mm wheels (with calipers I measured ~10mm for the 142 & ~6.3 on the other two). Since the hanger is essentially flush with the inside of all drops (all are similar thickness), obviously a significant der. adjustment will be required to swap wheels.

    If the 142mm drop was 3.5mm thicker inboard, and relieved 3.5mm for the axle (moving the hanger that much inboard as well), the der. would end up in essentially the same location for all wheels.

    Assume the same for the non-drive side.

    http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...er/142v150.jpg
  • 12-22-2012
    Brougham
    "The hangers used on the 150x12 and 142x12 dropouts are the same for all our bike models to keep things nice and easy"
    To whom? - having to space out the IS-PM adaptor is annoying and shouldnt really be neccesary... on any modern frame and why even offer 142mm dropouts if its not the full package with a recessed channel?
  • 12-22-2012
    LyNx
    Hum, I'd have to concur with Marshall on this one, absolutely. The only reason to do the new 142 standard is exactly for this as otherwise there's always 135x12. I can very easily see the hanger and caliper fixing points being off, if by chance the step to do the slots got forgotten somehow as they're about the depth of the spacing between 2 cogs - not quite sure how that's really possible since everything would then have to account for that extra.

    Sadly the only company who's done anything useful with the 142 standard is SpecialED - they actually widened their hub flanges, which to me is what should have been done if it was a proper standard, but that's something a lot of people wouldn't do to gain so little over 135, so they made it something that could work with existing hubs that use end caps.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly View Post
    I thought the relieved portion was one of the main reasons for the 142x12 standard, enabling easier wheel installation. Otherwise, it's no better than 135x12. Tech Speak: 142×12, What’s the Big Idea? - Bike Rumor

    From the article linked above:

  • 12-22-2012
    skidad
    Hmmm. this is a bit disturbing news about the 142 drops with no relief. Without seeing them would the meat not be enough if the cutout was there or not enough material to attach the hanger. Just tossing out random thoughts as to why. IMO you shouldn't have to go messing around with caliper and RD adjustments other than very slightly with different dropouts. Need an answer from Banshee on this one.
  • 12-22-2012
    skidad
    Quote:

    Sadly the only company who's done anything useful with the 142 standard is SpecialED - they actually widened their hub flanges, which to me is what should have been done if it was a proper standard, but that's something a lot of people wouldn't do to gain so little over 135, so they made it something that could work with existing hubs that use end caps.
    To bad their 142+ hubs are prone to self destructing. Many threads about that problem.