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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Coming from 135 or 142? I have no necessary adjustments going from 135 to 150...or back.

    Agreed, the 150mm rear is a big upgrade in stiffness!
    From 135, it was a pretty easy change over. I've got a DBair on the way, don't much care for the CTD. Otherwise, I'm tearing it up out there. The Prime gobbles up everything.

  2. #52
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    Easiest solution would be to buy a light 150 mm rear hub and have both your wheelsets at 150. At CRC Hopes are less then $200 , WTB $145 and I just bought a DT Swiss 350 for $114. All are around 300 grams and as Im sure you know it is impossible to build as strong as wheel with any 135mm hub
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  3. #53
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    Do the 150 have the grooves to aid with wheel install? Since I have to remove the wheels to fit in the car, that would be helpful.
    I am just thinking about gluing some kind of half-a-shim to create the wheel channel to help with wheel install, probably only on the left dropout. (since I only use one wheel, I am not troubled by the derailleur and brake alignment problem). From the looks of it, the half-a-shim on drive side would be attached to the hanger... Guess trying only on non-drive side first to see how that works

    I just want the ease to install wheels that the groove provides. Every time I had to install a wheel on a 150 bike it was a pita... Hold the wheel exactly in spot with one hand, while lifting the bike with the other and insert axle with leg... That or flip the bike upside down... In the stand it is easy, but in the middle of trail in pissing rain it isnt that fun or easy, and flipping the bike upside down just to get a muddy saddle isn't my cup of tea.

  4. #54
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    There is a 157mm standard that is to 150mm what 142mm is to 135 150mm cannot have grooves - that would cause issues on the drive-side.

  5. #55
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    How can I get some custom turner decals?

  6. #56
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    Any word if Banshee is going to re-design the dropouts? It would be a shame for them to carry the ball all the way to the 1 yard line only to fumble the ball with something as simple as dropouts. Anybody know if a company like North Shore Billet could make some custom ones? My Prime should be here today

  7. #57
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    I have my frame at home, and I'll only be home by March, so I'd also like to see some revised 142mm dropouts. They shouldn't be that different from the 135mm version, just had the grooves for wheel install and change to 12mm instead of 10mm and that's it, right?

    Custom seem like they end up expensive. Also, I like the syntace derailleur hanger concept with breakaway bolt instead of the hanger itself.

    Anyway, I guess I can live with shimming the brake adapter. The lack of the guide to aid wheel install, I'll try to epoxy my own metal part, creating slots on the inside of the dropout, therefore making the wheel guidance. If I do that, I might as well epoxy the shims in place for the brake mount. About the derailleur, guess I cant do much about that one
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco Dog View Post
    Any word if Banshee is going to re-design the dropouts? It would be a shame for them to carry the ball all the way to the 1 yard line only to fumble the ball with something as simple as dropouts. Anybody know if a company like North Shore Billet could make some custom ones? My Prime should be here today
    This subject is getting some heat and this was a quote from a page back. Guess it's possible and probably should be since there seems to be 2 issues involved. Spacing and the reliefs.

    "If it turns out that our customers decide that this is something they really want, then I'll listen and change the mold and pricing, but I suspect most will see beyond the marketing and realize that putting the wheel in place is easy without the recess"
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    This subject is getting some heat and this was a quote from a page back. Guess it's possible and probably should be since there seems to be 2 issues involved. Spacing and the reliefs.

    "If it turns out that our customers decide that this is something they really want, then I'll listen and change the mold and pricing, but I suspect most will see beyond the marketing and realize that putting the wheel in place is easy without the recess"
    i had a nicolai bmxtb with 12mmx135m and it was a pia to line the wheel up. the recess is what makes 142mm atractive as a thru axle. slip it in the slots, then put the axle in. done

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    i had a nicolai bmxtb with 12mmx135m and it was a pia to line the wheel up. the recess is what makes 142mm atractive as a thru axle. slip it in the slots, then put the axle in. done
    I honestly have to say that I see it the same way:
    The main Concept of the Syntace X-12 is easier Wheel-Installment for 12 mm Bolt-Thru, based on 135 x 12 Bolt-Thru. I donīt know if this, or the Benefit of being stiffer and different Hanger-Concept is more Marketing Blabla than real-life-proved?!? If this is all Marketing, then why going a.) 142 mm Width without Reliefs and b.) without resetting the 3,5 mm Offset per Side? This is like going 142 Width just for the sake of it.
    In this Case I would rather prefer Dropouts with the trusty 135 x 12 Maxle/Bolt-Thru and be fine without the necessity to shimm and live with the already known Wheel-Installment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco Dog View Post
    Any word if Banshee is going to re-design the dropouts? It would be a shame for them to carry the ball all the way to the 1 yard line only to fumble the ball with something as simple as dropouts ...
    I do think the same. The new KS-Link Bikes are awesome to ride and ahead of Competitors in many Aspects - please donīt miss the Goal of 100% Perfection. It is more costy, ok, but I think the majority is willing to pay an Upcharge. I would. Especially if a Trade-In at Cost could be done for those who already have them.
    As far as I have read the 135 x 10 and 150 x 12 work as they should. At least it would affect only the 26/650B-142 x 12 Dropouts, right?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    Do the 150 have the grooves to aid with wheel install? Since I have to remove the wheels to fit in the car, that would be helpful.
    I am just thinking about gluing some kind of half-a-shim to create the wheel channel to help with wheel install, probably only on the left dropout. (since I only use one wheel, I am not troubled by the derailleur and brake alignment problem). From the looks of it, the half-a-shim on drive side would be attached to the hanger... Guess trying only on non-drive side first to see how that works

    I just want the ease to install wheels that the groove provides. Every time I had to install a wheel on a 150 bike it was a pita... Hold the wheel exactly in spot with one hand, while lifting the bike with the other and insert axle with leg... That or flip the bike upside down... In the stand it is easy, but in the middle of trail in pissing rain it isnt that fun or easy, and flipping the bike upside down just to get a muddy saddle isn't my cup of tea.
    Just a quick note on this, in my experience it's a whole lot easier to wipe your seat off when it's time to ride than to fumble around with your bike upright changing a flat... And if it's that muddy isn't your seat already fairly muddy from riding anyway??

  12. #62
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    Hey Builttoride

    First of I want to say I LOVE this bike. you did a fantastic job, I did my first 25 km day on Seymour and Fromme on the weekend. Usually I'd stop by the 10 km mark because I didn't want to drag my bike up the climbs anymore.

    The drop outs work fine for me the wheel sits perfectly centered as it does on other 142 mm bikes. but I do like the "channels". My solution was to contact a North Shore Billets about making a modified version. I'm not sure about the cost of this in my be way to much but I thought it was worth at least asking.

    If you don't mind me asking do you see any problems having a cnc'd version rather than forged? If NSB or any other CNC company were interested would you/Banshee be ok with it or even help them with your 3d models of the drop outs?

    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I made the descisoon not to recess the dropouts for a few reasons.

    #1 It would have meant increasing the mold size for the forging, which would have meant increasing the price of the dropouts to the customer by a minimum of $20 (likely a bit more once import tax, dealer and distributor margins etc are added on).

    #2 I actually find the wheel is easier to put in place without the recess as you can slide it in forward of the derailleur (making most of large tire clearance) and then pull back into location.... the brake caliper will help you keep it vertically aligned anyway.

    #3 I've never had any issue mounting a wheel on my DH bike, or proto KS bikes that made me ever feel the need for an extra 'cup' of material to justify the extra weight and cost.

    If it turns out that our customers decide that this is something they really want, then I'll listen and change the mold and pricing, but I suspect most will see beyond the marketing and realize that putting the wheel in place is easy without the recess.

  13. #63
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    If CNCing your own dropouts (expect a pricey quote) then they would have to beef the dropouts up slightly as machined alloy is not as strong as forged, or go with a stronger alloy like 6066 or 7005 (both heat treated to T6). They should be easily able to machine based on the dropouts you give them (they aren't super comlicated parts) but they can contact me if they want any clarification.

    Personally if all you are looking for is the recess to potentially help make mounting the wheel a little easier, then I would just make some crescent shapes and bond them to your existing dropouts. This would be far cheaper and performa the same job, as they are not load bearing parts.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Personally if all you are looking for is the recess to potentially help make mounting the wheel a little easier, then I would just make some crescent shapes and bond them to your existing dropouts. This would be far cheaper and performa the same job, as they are not load bearing parts.
    Expect some updates at the beginning of March related to bonding the recess on the dropouts by my part. Can't wait to get back home and have a look at the frame and build my prime.
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Personally if all you are looking for is the recess to potentially help make mounting the wheel a little easier, then I would just make some crescent shapes and bond them to your existing dropouts. This would be far cheaper and performa the same job, as they are not load bearing parts.
    Seriously, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but that is not the point. That will not fix the fact that the brake mount and derailleur hanger do not locate those parts correctly on the bike. The recessed pockets in the dropouts are there to capture the additional 3.5mm on each side of a 142mm hub and the inside face of the brake mount and derailleur hanger should be located on the plane where the 135mm hub caps would end.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy View Post
    Seriously, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but that is not the point. That will not fix the fact that the brake mount and derailleur hanger do not locate those parts correctly on the bike. The recessed pockets in the dropouts are there to capture the additional 3.5mm on each side of a 142mm hub and the inside face of the brake mount and derailleur hanger should be located on the plane where the 135mm hub caps would end.
    X2...get it OEM correct please. It may work with shimming/fiddling but given the choice I'm sure buyers would choose the 142 standard with reliefs. If it requires a new hanger so be it.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy View Post
    Seriously, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but that is not the point. That will not fix the fact that the brake mount and derailleur hanger do not locate those parts correctly on the bike. The recessed pockets in the dropouts are there to capture the additional 3.5mm on each side of a 142mm hub and the inside face of the brake mount and derailleur hanger should be located on the plane where the 135mm hub caps would end.
    Again: Iīm not nit-picking at all - I got my Brakes and Derailleur to work fine and Iīm ok with the usual fiddly Wheel-Installment - but this sounds quite right for me!!!

    Going 142 Axle Width without the reliefs for easier Wheel-Installment is ok - could be seen as an non-mainstream-attitude. But the necessity to space inwards 3,5 mm is something I donīt really get, plus non-loyal-Banshee-Customers donīt get, plus Home-Wrenchers donīt get, plus LBS-Mechanics donīt get. This alone makes X-12/142 mm Axle Width senseless in my Opinion. 2 of 3 Points the X-12 Standard offers are simply not done. Would be easier with the 135x12 Bolt-Thru/Maxle and non-spacing.

    I think Riders who decided for 142x12 want the Benefits of this Standard, plus they have no choice of going 135x12. Downhillers would go with 150x12 and take their existing Wheelsets, others take the good old 135x10. Only the last two are well served ...

  18. #68
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    You guys are funny. Banshee should redesign the dropouts, offer at-cost replacement, etc because the 'majority' of riders (I count 3, maybe 4) want them? Or don't want to get their saddle muddy, for real? Personally I can't understand the issue with wanting to constantly change out dropouts in the first place. Makes way more sense to choose your preferred configuration be it 12x42, 10x135, 12x150 and build your wheels up around that choice. Way easier than removing two dropouts, a derailleur, and a caliper then bolting all 4 back on again rather than just swapping the wheels. You're already going through that unnecessary hassle and complaining about possibly needing a 2mm shim next to certain brake calipers? Pul-eeze.

    I imagine the vast majority of Rune/Spitfire riders (not the half dozen who nit-pick on here) will probably choose one set of dropouts based on what they prefer and call it a day.

    And chalk me up as someone who is glad the sleeves are missing, wheel installation is easier without them anyway (not that wheel installation should ever be considered hard in the first place).

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by general lee View Post
    You guys are funny. Banshee should redesign the dropouts, offer at-cost replacement, etc because the 'majority' of riders (I count 3, maybe 4) want them? Or don't want to get their saddle muddy, for real? Personally I can't understand the issue with wanting to constantly change out dropouts in the first place. Makes way more sense to choose your preferred configuration be it 12x42, 10x135, 12x150 and build your wheels up around that choice. Way easier than removing two dropouts, a derailleur, and a caliper then bolting all 4 back on again rather than just swapping the wheels. You're already going through that unnecessary hassle and complaining about possibly needing a 2mm shim next to certain brake calipers? Pul-eeze.

    I imagine the vast majority of Rune/Spitfire riders (not the half dozen who nit-pick on here) will probably choose one set of dropouts based on what they prefer and call it a day.

    And chalk me up as someone who is glad the sleeves are missing, wheel installation is easier without them anyway (not that wheel installation should ever be considered hard in the first place).
    With all due respect Lee, you're being obtuse. The fact is that the 142x12 dropouts were not built to spec. An apt analogy would be advertising that the frame uses a 30.9 seatpost and the ID of the seatube being 32mm. Sure it will take a 30.9 seatpost, but you'll have to shim it to work. And I'm not personally invested in a frame at this point, I just think the new frames look awesome and it's a shame about the 142x12 dropouts.

  20. #70
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    I donīt know if there is a majority complaining and wanting them redesigned, or if itīs a minority. At least I donīt care, because Iīm ok how they are, but would not mind if they where correct to the X-12 Standard.
    Truth is: I have bought 142x12 for both 26/650B, build my two Wheelsets around this Standard for my new Spitfire and Iīm NOT going to spend more money on proper working 150x12 or 135x10 Dropouts or new Hubs or new Hub-Spacers. Well yes, changing Dropouts frequently is something that Iīm aware of and Part of my Riding, because Iīm going to switch between Wheelsets plus Wheelsizes.

    The good thing: Spacing and Derailleur-Adjustments simply keeps the same.

    If Banshee is going to redesign them: fine. If thereīs going to be a Trade-in at Cost: fine - iīll take it. If they keep them as they are: fine - Iīm out for a Ride ...

    "Banshee should redesign the dropouts, offer at-cost replacement, etc ..."
    My Point of view: Banshee should have designed them correctly from the start, sell them to the Cost that is required for Production and all this would be a Non-Topic! Even if they would be more expensive, Banshee would be still on the pretty good Side of Money/Value-Ratio.

    Ps: Always referring to my Post #60.
    Last edited by NoStyle; 02-19-2013 at 11:05 AM.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy View Post
    With all due respect Lee, you're being obtuse. The fact is that the 142x12 dropouts were not built to spec. An apt analogy would be advertising that the frame uses a 30.9 seatpost and the ID of the seatube being 32mm. Sure it will take a 30.9 seatpost, but you'll have to shim it to work. And I'm not personally invested in a frame at this point, I just think the new frames look awesome and it's a shame about the 142x12 dropouts.
    mine is 30.9mm (looser fit tho) but the post that comes with the frame is only 30.8mm (but labeled 30.9mm)

    I already pointed that out 4 years ago, and they still did not get it right... which is a pitty... but the seattube works great with 30,9mm kindshock post (wobblefree, but it will slide inside the seattube rapidly on its own weight if not clamped - sure sign that the seatpost ID is a bit on the big side...

  22. #72
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    I must be missing something. I had 10X135 dropouts for 26” wheels and switched to 12X142 for 650b wheels when they were available. I just bolted them up and made minor brake and derailleur adjustments. I didn’t need a shim for the brake, and was able to set the derailleur with the adjuster on the shifter. Neither seemed anywhere near 3.5mm off. Is that just for the 12X150?

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by belljeffw View Post
    I must be missing something. I had 10X135 dropouts for 26” wheels and switched to 12X142 for 650b wheels when they were available. I just bolted them up and made minor brake and derailleur adjustments. I didn’t need a shim for the brake, and was able to set the derailleur with the adjuster on the shifter. Neither seemed anywhere near 3.5mm off. Is that just for the 12X150?
    Not that all this is a "big Problem", but if the 142x12 Dropouts were up to the Standard then you should have to do nothing but swap the Dropouts, without these "minor" Adjustments.

    These Adjustments, and the missing recesses, donīt really bother me much, because I consequently go with X-12 for both Wheelsizes. In Fact my Mechanic shimmed about 1 mm and the Brakes were screwed non-centric on the Adapter and now do their Work. Same for the Derailleur.

    There are others that had to shimm 1, 2 or 3 mm, not knowing this to be necessary at all. Me too. Again others with older Derailleurs have to buy new ones because the Swing-Range doesnīt fit to the more 3,5 mm inward Adjustment. Some likes to have the Recesses (Part of X-12 Standard), others donīt miss them.

    If you find this Adjustments "minor", thatīs really ok. Others, frequently switching Wheelsets, might feel bugged, because this Adjustments possibly have do be done every Time.

    Truth is: These Dropouts are like the common 135x12, with just 7 mm more complete flush Width which has to be re-adjust on Brakes and Derailleurs. This "Problem" does not appear for the 150x12 and 135x10.

  24. #74
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    I get it, thanks. I guess I don't change wheels often enough for it to bug me.

  25. #75
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    I get that those who change dropouts every now and then have the alignment as a problem. For me, it is really the hassle to put the wheel on every ride. It reminds my of the older Marzocchi with 20mm axle. I remember resting the wheel vertically, locked by my knees, using one hand on the handlebar to try and align everything and the other to insert the axle. Nowadays, with the grooves, it is so much easier, as one doesn't need to align everything and insert the axle at the same time, the system is self centering, and rest on the appropriate spot.

    On another note, just realised the new Rocky Mountain are using bushings. As one of those that supported Banshee when they were using bushings (and still love my v1 rune with angleset), I'm curious to see how will those Rocky last
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

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