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  1. #1
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    Prime or Covert29

    I hate seeing these kinds of threads, particularly when they relate to two bikes (almost) no one has ridden. That hasn't stopped me, so here goes.

    I've been riding a Bandit29 and loving it. It's my first experience with a FS 29er and It's great, but at times I find it a little lacking when the trail gets really nasty.

    When I saw Transition would have a Covert29 this year, I figured that bike addressed what I found lacking in the Bandit29. I figured I should also check out the other 130-140mm travel 29ers out there. The only other one I found that interested me was the Prime. I've long been a fan of mini-link bikes. While the Bandit is a great ride, I do feel it hanging up a bit in the chunk. I also notice some stiffening under braking. I'm hoping the KS Link addresses these issues. Does anyone have experience going from a single pivot to a KS Link bike?

    I'm 5'11" with a 33" inseam. I currently ride a large Bandit, with a 23.5" TT and 16.3" reach. Looking at the Prime geometry, I'm guessing I'd be happy on a medium?

    Last question. Can I get a Prime with a DB Air?

  2. #2
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    Never do get why people go into manufacturer specific forums to ask questions like this, it's akin to rolling into Miami and asking, "Heat or Lakers?" Do you really think you'll get a non biased answer in here? I'd go ask in the 29er forum and hope for more honest, non-biased feedback

    All this being said, my pre-production Prime is the absolute bomb, stiffest, most confidence inspiring bike I've ever ridden, climbs and descends fantastic, but I, nor anybody else could honestly give you a fair answer to if it's better than the Covert since no one has ridden one yet. I can whole heartidly and most assuredly tell you though that it's definitely fugly compared to the Prime


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  3. #3
    Hard funkinī Kraut
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    Transition makes great Bikes, no doubt about that! And so does Banshee.
    Iīm still waiting for my KS-Link Spitfire, so I only can quote on a Wildcard Faux-Bar-Suspension at the moment.

    I truly believe that virtual-Pivot-Designs like the KS-Link are superior to a Faux-Bar-Designs, even if they are best executed. They offer more neutral Pedaling, have more Small-Bump-Sensitivity and are neutral when Breaking. So in Terms of Suspension-Systems the Choice could be clear.

    But there is more to a Bike than just that. Best you can do is ride both and decide then, because the overall Feel is more important. You have to be at Home when riding it, the Geometry has to suit you, regardless of what Suspension might be better on Paper.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Never do get why people go into manufacturer specific forums to ask questions like this, it's akin to rolling into Miami and asking, "Heat or Lakers?" Do you really think you'll get a non biased answer in here? I'd go ask in the 29er forum and hope for more honest, non-biased feedback
    I really didn't request, or expect, non-biased feedback. Did you read the content of my post, or just the title? I asked about experiences with going from a single pivot to a KS-link (DW Link or VPP to KS Link comparisons would also be welcome), sizing (yes, I've read the Prime sizing threads in this forum, just hoping someone may have ridden a lg Bandit29 AND a Prime), and lastly if the frame was available with a DB Air instead of the Fox. To me, those questions seem best answered in the Banshee forum.

  5. #5
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    The Prime will be avaliable with a DB air for 2013. I can answer that part.
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  6. #6
    FM
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    I haven't the ridden a covert 29'er....has anyone?

    I will say, i've had the pleasure of riding with Sam and Kevin from Transition a few times, great dudes and very talented riders. Great to have them here in Wa state!

    On to the bikes....I don't think you can go wrong, but the differences...
    The prime has the flip-chip adjustable geometry. In the steepest setting the stays are 1/2" shorter than the coverts.
    Suspension feel is gonna be different obviously. Riding my prime back-to-back with a bandit29 for instance.... on the bandits suspension felt more like the frame was "scissoring" as the suspension compressed. The Prime has more rearward axlepath (but nowhere near as much as the older V4B banshees) so the frame feels more like the swingarm is moving front/back rather than up/down as the suspenion compresses. Obviously the covert will be different...

    Sizing- I think you would love a medium production prime. The protos run just a bit larger, I am 5'-9" and the medium feels on the large side of perfect for me. The medium Prime and Large transition look pretty close in size.

  7. #7
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    I guess my thread title was very misleading. I had been going back and forth comparing the two bikes before I started the thread. In retrospect, I should have just asked my Prime questions in one of the existing threads. Outside of the guys at Transition, I doubt anyone has ridden a Covert29 yet. As happy as I've been with the Bandit, I had been figuring the Covert29 would be a no-brainer. I really like Transition as a company and i think they build great bikes. It was only after checking out the Prime that I started to question my choice. It seems the Prime addressed some of the things that I've discovered are important to me after riding the Bandit for a year. I got all excited about the Prime and barfed all my thoughts into a new thread.

    Thanks for your input. I need to pick your brain about 29er tires for the PNW. I've been running a 2.35 Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic combo, which I've been pretty happy with, although I think I'd rather have a 2.25 NN in the back. The 2.35 is huge and heavy. The Specialized offerings intrigue me. It seems you're happy with the Purgatorys? I'm thinking about a Butcher/Purgatory combo. Love the Butchers on my DH bike, but don't know how they'd be as a trail tire.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I haven't the ridden a covert 29'er....has anyone?

    I will say, i've had the pleasure of riding with Sam and Kevin from Transition a few times, great dudes and very talented riders. Great to have them here in Wa state!

    On to the bikes....I don't think you can go wrong, but the differences...
    The prime has the flip-chip adjustable geometry. In the steepest setting the stays are 1/2" shorter than the coverts.
    Suspension feel is gonna be different obviously. Riding my prime back-to-back with a bandit29 for instance.... on the bandits suspension felt more like the frame was "scissoring" as the suspension compressed. The Prime has more rearward axlepath (but nowhere near as much as the older V4B banshees) so the frame feels more like the swingarm is moving front/back rather than up/down as the suspenion compresses. Obviously the covert will be different...

    Sizing- I think you would love a medium production prime. The protos run just a bit larger, I am 5'-9" and the medium feels on the large side of perfect for me. The medium Prime and Large transition look pretty close in size.

  8. #8
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall Willanholly View Post
    Thanks for your input. I need to pick your brain about 29er tires for the PNW. I've been running a 2.35 Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic combo, which I've been pretty happy with, although I think I'd rather have a 2.25 NN in the back. The 2.35 is huge and heavy. The Specialized offerings intrigue me. It seems you're happy with the Purgatorys?
    Marshall Willanholly, where are you located?
    I am also running the HD/NN 2.35 combo and have the exact same impressions. If I were to buy again I would do the NN 2.35 F / NN 2.25 rear. The purgatories rolled a lot faster and felt lighter, but were a little scary on wet squamish rock.

    One thing I think will be great about the lighter production prime, you could throw light tires on and use the steeper geometry setting for more XC usage.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Marshall Willanholly, where are you located?
    I am also running the HD/NN 2.35 combo and have the exact same impressions. If I were to buy again I would do the NN 2.35 F / NN 2.25 rear. The purgatories rolled a lot faster and felt lighter, but were a little scary on wet squamish rock.

    One thing I think will be great about the lighter production prime, you could throw light tires on and use the steeper geometry setting for more XC usage.
    I'm in the Portland area.

    Looking at Specialized's website, they have supposedly improved the Purgatory for 2013. I'll be doing a fair amount of enduro races next year, so I want a tire that won't cut easy but also rolls well. I've been running the Schwalbes tubeless with no problems, and I'd like to avoid running tubes in the future.

    I like the idea of the NN 2.35/2.25 combo. I wasn't sure if the NN would have enough traction for the front, but it may be worth a try. Looks like the NN are comparable in weight to the Purgatory.

    Back on topic, I think I'm pretty much set on getting a Prime.

  10. #10
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    I love both brands, but I too would lean towards the Banshee (I spent more time in the Transition forum than here too, so I'm not biased towards Banshee). Main reason being that it's got the adjustable geometry which is a major plus for me. I also like the shorter seat tube.
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  11. #11
    FM
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    The adjustable geometry on the production frames will be a really cool feature.
    On the protos, adjusting to the steeper angles actually extends the wheelbase slightly, so I havenít really messed with it. The low/slack setting is perfect for airtime, rough, techy DH, higher speeds or flow trails. On some of the more XC descents I do, I suspect a slightly steeper angled, shorter wheelbase bike would be fasterÖ and thatís exactly what you get with the flip-chips on the production prime. Not to mention the lighter weight!

    Tires- Iím sure the new purgatories will be winners. My 2.4ís were super durable, and I loved how they drifted predictably in dry conditions. Iíll be going back to purgatories when my schwalbes wear out- hopefully they'll get me through the wet season!

    MWH, if you make it up near Seattle, youre welcome to take my Prime for a testride. Duthie Hill would be perfect.
    Last edited by FM; 11-27-2012 at 05:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Cannonball!
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    I had the chance to ride the Covert 29 on my local trail, and it rocked! I felt like it could take about anything I could give it. I hit a couple drops that were 2-3 and one bigger one that is probably 4ish from take-off to tranny. I have never ridden a demo bike that was more confidence inspiring. That being said I owned a V1 Spitfire and just built my V2 Rune, and I really believe in Keith and his design, and in Banshee as a company. I can't imagine the Prime would be anywhere short of amazing.

    I will most likely be picking up a Bandit29 this spring, but built more as an XC machine. At this time I don't need/want something as beefy as the Covert29 or Prime. I only hope the Bandit rides close to as well as the Covert!

  13. #13
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    I just got my Banshee Prime delivered and I couldn't be more happy. Burly and a little heavy but no tank. Really agile and fun to ride.

    Had my premier ride last night and it was raining like crazy. We have a lot of roots and slick rock so it's a little technical riding over here. It performed nicely, the rear tire hooked up nicely and I lost traction when I fell over backwards of my legs gave up.

  14. #14
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    Marshall, my name is Joe Mosquera and I along with my business partner Max are the Banshee Reps for your area. I am based in Salem, OR and Max is in Portland. We have a pretty extensive demo fleet of bikes between the 2 of us. Please send me a personal email if you are interested in trying to setup a time to demo a Prime. I am sure we can get you out on the bike in the very near future.

    We were actually riding up at Sandy Ridge yesterday and the conditions were great.

    Look forward to hearing from you.

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