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  1. #1
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    Parodox build tips please

    Hi All,

    I normally live on the Niner forum but I have just bought a Banshee Paradox V2 frame to liven the stable up a bit. The Paradox will replace my Santa Cruz Chameleon 26'er which is set up 1x9 and 120mm/20mm axle fork.

    I have a few existing parts for the build and I have a few ideas but I would like to hear what sort of spec. others have built their Paradox's too.

    I only ride a mix of XC including some endurance rides (which I have the 100mm dually for). I am looking for this build to ride my local singletrack with loads of grip and a bit more confidence on the small drops and steeper downhill pinches. So weight is not so important.

    My first question is I have a pair of Stan's Arch rims on XT hubs (20mm front) that are currently on my Jet 9 dually. Would these be suitable or should I look for something stronger and wider, more like the Stan's Flow rims? There are some locally on ebay right now which could fit the bill. If the Arches are suitable I will probably build a lighter and whiter wheelset for the white Jet 9.

    My second question is whether to go single chainring or dual chainring. I have both options easily available with an SLX 22/36 double crankset and an E13 chainguide currently on the Chameleon (BB mount though)? I rode most of my local trails this morning with a 40 tooth front ring and only bailed to the 27 twice, so I can ride 95% with a single 36 front ring.

    Finally what fork options are people using? Would a Revelation dual position 140mm/110mm be too much fork when not in the climbing position (110mm)?

    Thanks in advance for the advice

  2. #2
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    Ozy, I personally don't know your trails or riding preference, but I'll give my $0.02.

    When I built my Paradox the HA was 69* using a 120mm fork and this was one of the things I thought needed changing to 68* and this was done with the V2, so for me I don't think I'd want it any slacker than that with a 140mm fork. That being said, if you get the 110-140 Talaus/Dual position fork, then if you rode it @ 110M your HA would be about 68.5*, which would actually be fairly sweet for most Xc and trail riding and then you'd have the option to go to 140mm and slack the HA out to 67.5* roughly for the descents, so best of both worlds I guess.

    As to double or triple, only you can answer that, but given that you already have the double I'd opt for that to start, then if you notice you're not using the granny, ,then consider dropping it, or maybe consider increasing the ring size to get a higher, high gear and taller granny.

    As to the wheels, if you don't plan on running anything above 2.2" tyres then I'd prob use the Arch wheelset and build the lighter set for racing/XC. If you do plan to go above 2.2" width, then something a bit wider like the Flow or MTX33 would be a benefit in getting a better/truer profile on the tyre. Personally am looking for a new wheelset when $$ allow and I'm seriously considering some of those Chinese carbon rims laced to hubs of choice.
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  3. #3
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    +1 for LyNx's input.

    Also. If you do go with new wheels, look at WTB i23 Frequency (or i19's). Similar to Flow's/Arches, IMO stronger because of the internal rib, and they can be found for cheaper. I recently built a set and have been running the front on my Paradox V1 while I wait for my new frame which it will be going on. Nice rim.

    I run 2x9 and have never dropped a chain, and with an X0 rear mech in VERY chunky terrain have very little chain slap. So, IMO, your chain guide is not necessary. Wrap some inner tube around your drive side chain stay and you'll be good to go.

    I ride a Fox 120mm Talas and it "feels" right, for me. I've only used the travel adjust once, I just ride at 120mm. Climbs great, descends greater, smooth or chunky doesn't matter, for a hard tail this bike really gobbles up trail nastiness.

    This bike will have you riding everything that you're man enough to ride, and even some stuff that you're not, you're in for a treat.

    I've include 2 videos of where I typically ride, the second one is kind of long. The Banshee regulars have seen them from a Prime thread. For reference, I have a very nice 26" AM FS that hangs in my garage while I chose my Paradox for these rides, I like the handling of the Paradox that much.






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    Thanks for the feedback Lynx and Optimus, I will watch the videos this evening when I get some time.

    Lynx re the travel that is what I was thinking, run the Revelation in the low setting and then have 140mm available for knarly descents? I have heard that the TALAS though is not designed to run in the low position for long periods so it would have to be 120 with occasional 95 on ascents.

    Lynx, you missed my point on the chainrings, I am considering either the SLX double or run it single ring. I only have a triple on my dually which has to be able to climb anything. I am pretty comfortable going a single 36 tooth front ring on this build.

    Lynx, I am thinking of around 2.25/2.35 tyres and as weight is not a major concern, I just put a bid in on the flow wheels on ebay. I already run flows on my rigid SS with 2.4's.

    Optimus, thanks for the feedback on the 2x9, it gives me a bailout gear and if there are no chain retention problems then it might be worth having the extra front derailleur and shifter on the bike for flexibility. Also the chainguide is overkill for my kind of riding so I don't mind dropping it.

    Optimus, TALAS 120/95 fork is definitely under consideration. Interesting that you don't need/use the 95. It might come down to cost for me and I might end up with a 120mm fork with no travel adjust. I do like the idea of travel adjust though and my son now rides my old Epic with a U Turn Reba.

    Re type of riding etc. My local trails are not that challenging but I find the Niner hardtails to be very XC focussed (steep head angle in particular). So I have built my Air 9 light and fast and am thinking of even putting a rigid fork and semi slicks on it and limiting the places I ride it to fast fire roads and mixed dirt/bitumen rides. The Paradox build needs to be more of an all round trail bike but it doesn't need the big ring for long or fast rides.

  5. #5
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    Ozi, if the budget comes tight and you can only do a normal travel 120mm fork, know this, the bike is ace using a 120mm fork, absolutely spot on, you'll enjoy it and be surprised that you don't wish for less, even on the steepest climbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Ozi, if the budget comes tight and you can only do a normal travel 120mm fork, know this, the bike is ace using a 120mm fork, absolutely spot on, you'll enjoy it and be surprised that you don't wish for less, even on the steepest climbs.
    Thanks for the tip. Ironically I just bought a Reba XX 120-20 tapered fork for my Jet 9 and put a 20mm spacer in to drop it to 100mm travel. Apart from being white rather than black it would make a great fork on the raw Paradox. I just have to see how the wheel and fork options pan out. If I get the Flows I bid on the Hope front hub can go to 15mm or 20mm opening up the fork options.

  7. #7
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    ozy, to be completely honest with you, the fact that a Talas is black and an RLC white is the only reason that I used a Talas. If I ever have to send it in for service, I may have it converted to an RLC.

    Even though a Paradox is a very heavy duty frame, it doesn't ride that way. It's very nimble, and it's fast through the twisties. It's going to have you seeking out new lines.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    ozy, to be completely honest with you, the fact that a Talas is black and an RLC white is the only reason that I used a Talas. If I ever have to send it in for service, I may have it converted to an RLC.

    Even though a Paradox is a very heavy duty frame, it doesn't ride that way. It's very nimble, and it's fast through the twisties. It's going to have you seeking out new lines.
    hahaha love the vanity

    I am looking for a black fork too and then some blue highlights on the bike.

    My next question is that CRC have a couple of black Talas options

    Fox Suspension 32 Talas 29 120 Terralogic FIT 2011 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

    Fox Suspension 32 Talas 29 120 RLC FIT 2011 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

    The first one is Terralogic and about $100 cheaper than the RLC FIT model. Ignore the description on the website, it doesn't match the product name and I let them know about it.

    It is also about $100 more than a 140mm Revelation dual position on ebay but free freight reduces most of that difference so call it even.

    So would I regret saving a few $ on the the Terralogic ?

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    Also what if I could get a set of near new Cobalt 2 wheels for half new price? The value is good, 15mm axle to go with Fox forks, but are the rims strong and wide enough?

    EDIT forget that. Just did my own research. 19mm same as Arch rims. Designed for XC and 175lb rider limit. I would need to find some Iodines on special.
    Last edited by ozynigma; 08-06-2012 at 09:35 AM.

  10. #10
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    Ozy, I'd consider ordering from a US based online store to be quite honest, those prices on CRC are just insane I'm sure that even with shipping you can land the same fork from a US based online store for less than the cost of one of those two forks Places I shop, Jenson, Price Point, A E Bike.

    Have you considered other brands besdies RS and Fox? Don't forget Manitou (had about 3 years of good service from my Minute, 1.5 of those on the Paradox) and X-Fusion, lot cheaper than RS or Fox and very good reviews and construction seems to be top notch?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Ozy, I'd consider ordering from a US based online store to be quite honest, those prices on CRC are just insane I'm sure that even with shipping you can land the same fork from a US based online store for less than the cost of one of those two forks Places I shop, Jenson, Price Point, A E Bike.

    Have you considered other brands besdies RS and Fox? Don't forget Manitou (had about 3 years of good service from my Minute, 1.5 of those on the Paradox) and X-Fusion, lot cheaper than RS or Fox and very good reviews and construction seems to be top notch?
    I will check out some US shops before I buy. CRC build the freight into their prices. Freight from the US to Oz is more expensive and takes longer than from the UK. I have previously bought from Jenson and Speedgoat and probably others in the US.

    I haven't forgotten Manitou or Marzocchi and I don't know enough about X-Fusion so I hadn't considered them. If I forget travel adjust and go for a simple 120mm travel fork that will probably open a few more options up.

    One of my cheapest options right now is to buy a Manitou 100mm for my Jet 9 and put the brand new white Reba XX 120mm onto the Paradox. I just have to take the 20mm spacer back out to restore the full travel.

  12. #12
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    Personally, Oz, I'd skip the travel adjust, I really don't think that it's necessary on this frame. Again personally, I'd avoid the Terralogic, it's just more stuff that can go wrong. If your trails aren't really that rugged, an RL type fork will probably suit you fine. If you get a little chunkier, an RLC type would be nice. Thing is, it's a hardtail, it's never going to be "plush", so you can get away with avoiding all of the "bells and whistles". With everybody getting more and more advanced with their suspensions, it's getting harder to find a meat and potatoes fork. I'm getting close to starting a new build and I bought my fork maybe 6 months ago, just so I wouldn't have to be stuck with the 2013 Fox CTD 3 position stuff. (it's another Talas, because it's black, haha)

    I agree with LyNx that you may want to consider some of the "off" brands. There's lots of decent reviews for forks other than Fox and Rockshox.

    As far as the white Reba goes, I bet that it would work great for you. You can always paint it, as long as you scuff the finish good first, some quality hardware store spray paint should work acceptably.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Personally, Oz, I'd skip the travel adjust, I really don't think that it's necessary on this frame. Again personally, I'd avoid the Terralogic, it's just more stuff that can go wrong. If your trails aren't really that rugged, an RL type fork will probably suit you fine. If you get a little chunkier, an RLC type would be nice. Thing is, it's a hardtail, it's never going to be "plush", so you can get away with avoiding all of the "bells and whistles". With everybody getting more and more advanced with their suspensions, it's getting harder to find a meat and potatoes fork. I'm getting close to starting a new build and I bought my fork maybe 6 months ago, just so I wouldn't have to be stuck with the 2013 Fox CTD 3 position stuff. (it's another Talas, because it's black, haha)

    I agree with LyNx that you may want to consider some of the "off" brands. There's lots of decent reviews for forks other than Fox and Rockshox.

    As far as the white Reba goes, I bet that it would work great for you. You can always paint it, as long as you scuff the finish good first, some quality hardware store spray paint should work acceptably.
    I agree with you completely about this being a hardtail and not needing all the bells and whistles. The Reba XX I just bought was a 2011 model because I wanted 20mm to match my wheels. The new Reba's are all 15mm axle.

    Re the painting, my eyes hurt reading your suggestions. I have a compressor and spray gun thank you, a rub down with probably 320 grade wet and dry and it would be ready for a semi professional overcoat. I would prefer not to do that though, just leave it white.

    I won the Flow's on ebay this morning and the frame should be posted tomorrow. So I will focus on the fork hunting now. I do have to part out and sell off the Chameleon to pay for all this though.

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    Well here is a couple of more realistically costed options from Jenson.

    Manitou Tower Pro 29 Fork 2011 > Components > Forks > Suspension Forks | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    Under $400 delivered but no tapered steerer

    Manitou Tower Pro 120 29" Fork 2012 > Components > Forks > Suspension Forks | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    Marzocchi Corsa SL 29" Fork 2012 > Components > Forks > Suspension Forks | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

    Both around $600 delivered

    All of them are white, but I guess I am going to have to live with that or repaint them black, maybe after they get a few scratches.

    Here is the Revelation Dual Position on ebay

    eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d

    Which is close to $800 delivered

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    Ozy, give these 2 links a browse and then do some research on their contents, I think you might be impressed by what you find/read.

    Universal Cycles -- Forks - MTB Suspension > X-Fusion Forks
    X-Fusion Slide RL2 29er Suspension Fork 100mm 1-1/8" Black - AEBike.com - Thousands of bicycle parts and accessories - Shipped Worldwide
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  16. #16
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    I spotted those myself, just forgot to add Universal Cycle to the list of suggested places to shop. I deal with Universal a lot, no problems. $400-$440 for a brand new, nicely equipped fork looks like a really good deal. Also, at Universal, with an order over $300 you can get 15% off. They're black, tapered steerer, only 9mm axle, but if you use the DT Swiss 9mm axle thingy it should be stronger than a skewer. Looks like it could be a win.

    ozy, in a previous life I used to paint cars, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to change color. But I'm also a bit lazy these days, I'd actually just buy the color if it was available, even if it was a Talas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    ozy, in a previous life I used to paint cars, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to change color. But I'm also a bit lazy these days, I'd actually just buy the color if it was available, even if it was a Talas.
    Haha glad I said I would only do a semi professional job of it myself then hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Thanks, that is a very good price, just wish I could find a black one.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Ozy, give these 2 links a browse and then do some research on their contents, I think you might be impressed by what you find/read.

    Universal Cycles -- Forks - MTB Suspension > X-Fusion Forks
    X-Fusion Slide RL2 29er Suspension Fork 100mm 1-1/8" Black - AEBike.com - Thousands of bicycle parts and accessories - Shipped Worldwide
    Sorry but the 9mm is now a show stopper for me. I can live with the wretched new standard (like we needed another one) 15mm but my preference is for 20mm so at least I can swap wheelsets between my Jet 9 dually and this bike if required.

  21. #21
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    They do do 15mm TA as well, just take a look about and you'll find it, if not contact them directly and ask a question.
    Quote Originally Posted by ozynigma View Post
    Sorry but the 9mm is now a show stopper for me. I can live with the wretched new standard (like we needed another one) 15mm but my preference is for 20mm so at least I can swap wheelsets between my Jet 9 dually and this bike if required.
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    OK some key decisions have been made and pretty much all the parts for the build are ordered and on their way to the land of Oz.

    Fork will be the white Manitou Tower Pro 120mm tapered steerer with 20mm through axle.

    Wheels have arrived from a local ebay seller, Flows on Hope front hub and X9 rear hub.

    1x9 or 2x9 is about the only question to resolve. I have ordered the direct mount SLX FD in case I go 2x9. If I go 1x9 my existing chainguide uses a BB mount and won't make use of the ISCG tabs on the frame. I am looking into whether I can get a replacement backing plate only to convert the chainguide to ISCG.

    Here are the wheels with more photos to come as the build progresses.


    Untitled by ozynigma, on Flickr

  23. #23
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    Nice wheels, going to be a nice bike. I considered 1x10 on my new build, but decided on 2x. I don't granny often, but it is nice when you need to.

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    Another Aussie Paradox

    Hi Oz

    Good to see another Paradox down under. My bike of choice, it does it all from the rough rocky trails to 50km enduros. Awesome bike.

    My build Medium V1,
    120mm RL Fox Fork, all you need.
    Slx triple cranks
    x9 geartrain
    Cheapo DT swiss wheels for training and general trail riding.
    Arches on hope hubs for racing.
    Hardtails are for the road, Full Sus is for the dirt. Guess what...PARADOX... Its wrong that a Hardtail can be this much..FUN

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Nice wheels, going to be a nice bike. I considered 1x10 on my new build, but decided on 2x. I don't granny often, but it is nice when you need to.
    Yes the double makes the bike more usable in more conditions. I really haven't decided yet. I rode most of my local trails with the 40 tooth front ring on my Air 9 hardtail 2x9 last weekend. I am looking for the Air 9 and Paradox to be contrasting builds. I am thinking rigid carbon fork and semi slicks on the Air 9. They are both raw frames and I have the white carbon fork sitting on a shelf at home, it was on a commuter.

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