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  1. #1
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    Paradox Updated for 2012

    I've heard it's getting updated, what's the scoop??? I'm betting tapered HT is one of the changes.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  2. #2
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    I know there will be some updates but I'm not sure if they are finalized yet. I'm sure we'll hear something within a month or so. The Paradox will be my XC/Trail bike next season so I'm anxious to see what is in store as well.

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    Here's what I'm hoping to see in a Paradox MkII:

    1.) tapered or 1.5" headtube (so I can try out the new Fox 34mm forks). There's nothing wrong with 1 1/8" head tubes for this style of bike (I mean, it's not a DH or FR beast), but the industry is going this way whether we need it or not.

    2.) direct mount front derailleur (so I can replace my crappy SRAM FD with a Shimano). This is one of the better ideas that's come along lately. I'm all for easier setup and more tire clearance.

    3.) more rear tire clearance (so I can run even more extreme meat back there). This isn't an absolute necessity for me - more like one of those "what the heck, while you're at it ..." things. I've been running the WTB Bronson 2.2" on my Paradox, and it feels like I'm cheating out there.

    4.) BB30 or BB92 - what the heck, the industry's already heading in this direction also. Plus, it will allow for more weld area to widen and strengthen the chainstays.

    5.) interchangeable rear dropouts - 135x10, 135x12, 142x12 (F*ck Specialized and their proprietary BS), and horizontal (for SS).

  4. #4
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    I'm excited for the new changes. After this season's over, I'm selling my 26er Transition TransAM and getting on the 2012 Paradox for next season. I emailed Banshee this week if they planned on using the tapered headtube and it's confirmed, along with a direct mount FD and slightly slacker HA. Pretty stoked on the tapered HT as I plan on running either the Rockshox Reba/Revelation 140 or Fox 34.
    konahonzo

  5. #5
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    I'm hoping for more rear tire clearance. I want to run some 2.4's
    "Bound to cover just a little more ground"

  6. #6
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    any cad drawings, or the like?
    give the monkeys some sugar, come on

    lower standover toptube would top it off...

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    When will the updated version be available?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pieterpan View Post
    When will the updated version be available?
    I would expect it is about two months out. I'm impatiently waiting myself.

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    will we see a prototype/cad drwaing, please?

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    Just got an email from Banshee: the new paradox will be at the dealers in November.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pieterpan View Post
    Just got an email from Banshee: the new paradox will be at the dealers in November.
    If it is expected to be available from dealers in November, why is there no information available? There is no mention on the Banshee website that I can see. I'd like to know the details.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    If it is expected to be available from dealers in November, why is there no information available? There is no mention on the Banshee website that I can see. I'd like to know the details.
    Likewise.

    It's either a Paradox or Canfielf Yelli for me at this point.
    konahonzo

  13. #13
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    I'd like tapered headtube and a longer TT (which will yield a longer wheelbase). I'm 6', and I'd like the TT on my Large to be an inch longer.

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    I am in Chile and the dealer here said that Banshee had a delay on the CURRENT production batch, now I understand why is that... I am anxious to buy the fork and the tapered tube is everywhere. Dunno what to do, maybe I should stay waiting until the frame is in my hands...

  15. #15
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    If you squint, you can see the tapered headtube on the Paradox in the back, from Interbike.

    konahonzo

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    Sorry Eurospek, that was an old paradox build at interbike, but I did talk to the reps and they said it should be available in November and will have a tapered HT, slightly slacker head angle (I think they said a degree slacker), and redesigned chain/seatstays (rep said some people were rubbing heels and legs on them and better tire clearance)

    That's all I got, but it just might be enough for me to wait until November

    Also saw the new Trans Am 29er there, but that's for another thread

  17. #17
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    ^ See, when I asked about the chainstay updates and tire clearance in my email, all I received was slacker HA, tapered steer tube, and direct mount front der. I was specifically answered chainstays are staying the same ("The chainstay clearance will be the same on the V2 Paradox") with slightly more room for tire due to the direct mount front der.

    So idk who to believe now, plus looking at Paradox geo, the Large fits me well with its ETT and seat tube but the reach is super short, and their XL size is just way too big for my taste, I have no desire for 22" seat tube.

    At this point, I'm ready to commit to a Canfield Yelli Screamy, better geo, better tire clearance, available now. The TransAM 29er looks nice, but I want a sub-30 lb hardtail next. My 26er TransAM sits at 32.5 lbs, way too much, even with lightish components. That frame from the get-go is quite heavy.
    konahonzo

  18. #18
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    Squint? I can't get past looking at the Prime!
    These days... most every ride on my Rune, I wish it had 29" wheels....
    And many rides on my Yelli Screamy, I wish it had the Rune's suspension.
    I have always been an AM hardtail guy, but when things get really fast & rowdy, it's nice to have some cush.....
    Just waiting patiently and happily riding my current bikes...

  19. #19
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    LOL, same thing when I ride my current TransAM, I wish for bigger wheels.
    konahonzo

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    i most admit that i am all excited about the prime, but the cs length is a bit out of the range for me... especially since kona is prooving that there are ways to go shorter... and devinci as well, and the super short stay hardtails popping up with 405mm chainstay length like the stijncycles mike... (god knows what tire will fit in the kona satori tho)

    i like technical riding (for bikepark action i have my legend) and i always thought about a paradox as a 3rd bike... but it cannot replace the rune cause i need some "squich" out back on the alpine trails, and i dont want 2 trailbikes (rune and paradox) so the only way is to further keep the rune and patiently wait for some upgrades in the 29er components (esp. forks - i hate the current fox rlc damping system, and RS has the noodly 32mm chassis for a 210' guy, plus there is nothing with coil, although i know this issue can be sorted out with RS pike coils and some fiddeling with spacers for the shaft of the coil) and frames section... so please banshee, do us all a favour and try to work over the cs length for mass production...

  21. #21
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    I could make the chainstay shorter by going single pivot like the other bikes mentioned very easily. But if you want virtual pivot performance (will definitiely be noticable when pedaling) then is 12mm more CS length really a killer especially when it can fit 2.5" tires...?
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    not so sure on which side of the tradeoff the disadvantages are bigger...

    i have ridden wfos and rips with similar cs length, one 2011 with the upgraded headangle with dorado, so plenty slack, one with angleset, so comparable front geometry, and they were not hard to wheely or anything, but in really steep technical descents, i was not comfortable with the whole setup...
    it is hard to isolate geometry parameters, especially on a full suspension bike, but i recently rode a 29" hardtail with 416mm cs length and 67.5° headangle an alpine trails, switching back and forth with my rune, and i had a huge blast on it... it only lacked the rear suspension... had a 2.4" tire with room to spare...
    i know, that the geonometrical problems are multiplied with rear suspension, that is why i am no suspension designer, obviously..
    so geometrywise, i am pretty sure, a short cs length is key... and also a key argument in selling... slack headangle is no problem these days even with tapered fork since more and more frames are offeres with 44mm upper and 56mm lower cup which enable angleset with tapered fork - great move, in my opinion, or straight 1.5" headtube, which gives you the same possibility...

    the prime is late on the market, and you have to have an ace selling argument, or the costumers will go somewhere alse... because slack headangle is coming 1 year to late already to be a real argument imho...

    sorry, i dont want to offend you, if i didnt think you made great products, i would not have bought my first 2 banshees... it is just what i think about the whole thing... is there no way to get more space by modyfying the seattube more agressifly, or something like that?

  23. #23
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    Haha, don't worry, the slacker than average headtube on the prime is one of the most basic things about the bike, it isn't that big a deal as far as I'm concened. I admit we have taken too long to get to the market, and posted info on the bike too early. As a result I've seen other brands following the geometry trend and release bikes quickly... but good things come to those who wait!
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  24. #24
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    if it goes with the prime as it went with the legend, i am okay with that

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    I copped a feel of that L sized Prime in Eurobike... it didn't feel too big and my optimal frame size is M..

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalcolmX View Post
    not so sure on which side of the tradeoff the disadvantages are bigger...

    i have ridden wfos and rips with similar cs length, one 2011 with the upgraded headangle with dorado, so plenty slack, one with angleset, so comparable front geometry, and they were not hard to wheely or anything, but in really steep technical descents, i was not comfortable with the whole setup...
    it is hard to isolate geometry parameters, especially on a full suspension bike, but i recently rode a 29" hardtail with 416mm cs length and 67.5° headangle an alpine trails, switching back and forth with my rune, and i had a huge blast on it... it only lacked the rear suspension... had a 2.4" tire with room to spare...
    i know, that the geonometrical problems are multiplied with rear suspension, that is why i am no suspension designer, obviously..
    so geometrywise, i am pretty sure, a short cs length is key... and also a key argument in selling... slack headangle is no problem these days even with tapered fork since more and more frames are offeres with 44mm upper and 56mm lower cup which enable angleset with tapered fork - great move, in my opinion, or straight 1.5" headtube, which gives you the same possibility...

    the prime is late on the market, and you have to have an ace selling argument, or the costumers will go somewhere alse... because slack headangle is coming 1 year to late already to be a real argument imho...

    sorry, i dont want to offend you, if i didnt think you made great products, i would not have bought my first 2 banshees... it is just what i think about the whole thing... is there no way to get more space by modyfying the seattube more agressifly, or something like that?
    What bike was it?
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    What bike was it?
    it was the 2souls quarterhorse prototype krull introduced in the 29er section...
    here is the link, but i think you are familiar with that one
    2 Souls Cycles All Mountain Hardtail + Video

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by aflax View Post
    Sorry Eurospek, that was an old paradox build at interbike, but I did talk to the reps and they said it should be available in November and will have a tapered HT, slightly slacker head angle (I think they said a degree slacker), and redesigned chain/seatstays (rep said some people were rubbing heels and legs on them and better tire clearance)

    That's all I got, but it just might be enough for me to wait until November

    Also saw the new Trans Am 29er there, but that's for another thread
    Yeeah, let's wait.

  29. #29
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    Worth noting on chainstay length. Canfield lists the yelli screamy as having ""shortest chainstays of any production frame 29er" and the geometry chart shows 16.7". However this dimension is horizontal equivalent....the "true" center-to-center measurement on my frame is 16.9".

    Splitting hairs, but my point is that dimensions can be misleading, and don't always tell the whole story of how a bike rides. 17.6" chainstays seem very reasonable for a mini-link 29'er with 130mm travel...and one that could take a 29" minion dhf!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Worth noting on chainstay length. Canfield lists the yelli screamy as having ""shortest chainstays of any production frame 29er" and the geometry chart shows 16.7". However this dimension is horizontal equivalent....the "true" center-to-center measurement on my frame is 16.9".

    Splitting hairs, but my point is that dimensions can be misleading, and don't always tell the whole story of how a bike rides. 17.6" chainstays seem very reasonable for a mini-link 29'er with 130mm travel...and one that could take a 29" minion dhf!
    17.8" in the slack position, which is the one most people are going to use... and it is quite a lot more than the 16.4" stays (measured) from the hardtail i rode...

    just thinking if, for instance, a horstlink or faux bar would actually make such a huge difference in a 130mm chassis.
    and how many people would need the tire clearance postet originally... if an ardent 2.4 or the like fits in back there, and the chainstays can be 5-7mm shorter, i would go for that compromise... it is still a trailbike, no freeridemachine... so the 2.5" minion is not likely really an important design goal...

    for now i have my rune, but once i replace it, i will not get something with longer stays than the rune... i'd rather pay nicolai for making me on of their horstlink frankenstein 29er afr frames, when i can get the short stays there... and many people will think the same way...

    among hardtails, short chainstays seem to get accepted as a necesary design feature... why not on full suspension designs?
    with hardtails, thinking out of the box, and leaving traditional designs behind was necesary...

    and some companies state both meassurements, chainstaylength and rear-center...

  31. #31
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    I hear ya, shorter would be great!
    I just prefer to use numbers for reference, and not assume to much about ride quality from them.

    Also, the modular drop-outs might provide some nice flexibility here. Personally, I'd prefer drop-outs that only offered one travel/geometry option; which would be the lowest, slackest, shortest chainstay option physically possible. I've had a few bikes with adjustable travel or geometry, and always felt like too many geometry compromises get made just to provide extra options not many people use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I hear ya, shorter would be great!
    I just prefer to use numbers for reference, and not assume to much about ride quality from them.

    Also, the modular drop-outs might provide some nice flexibility here. Personally, I'd prefer drop-outs that only offered one travel/geometry option; which would be the lowest, slackest, shortest chainstay option physically possible. I've had a few bikes with adjustable travel or geometry, and always felt like too many geometry compromises get made just to provide extra options not many people use.
    yeay... maybe we can convince banshee to make some dropouts that limit the clearance to 2.2" nevegal , and make the chainstays shorter by 1cm or so...

  33. #33
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    So much for a Paradox thread...

    I would have zero interest in a trailbike that can't take a rear tire bigger than a 2.2. A lot of my friends ride Minions on their trailbikes, and I plan to when the 29" version arrives- I like traction, and I like being able to run a softer tire without worrying about flats. I ran Dissents on my WFO, and I miss the climbing traction in steep, loose gravel.

    MalcomX- I'm a little confused as to what you're getting at. You say Banshee needs to distinguish themselves in the 29er trailbike market since the Kona and Transition are coming out, but then you suggest limiting tire clearance or using a less complex suspension design. Neither of those suggestions would make for a unique bike. Lenz has (had for a long time) frames with lots of clearance, really short stays, but a simpler suspension. We're probably still guessing about what kind of clearance the Transition and Kona will have (if I've read, I've forgotten it), but I'd guess it's less. In short, if the chainstay length is a make it or break it number for you, there are/will be other options. I certainly don't want to see Banshee making adjustments that large at this stage in the game.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    So much for a Paradox thread...
    .



    Personally, I hate squat (having owned a lot of squatty bikes), so I'd probably rather have V4B and longer stays, as opposed to short stays and single pivot.

    Here's a pretty cool vid I stumbled across. Based on this, I think Banshee is doing well by gearing the prime towards aggressive riding. (I don't think any bandits were actually destroyed making this video)

    <object width='500' height='375'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/218418/l/' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/218418/l/' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='375' allowFullScreen='true' allowScriptAccess='always'></embed></object><p><a href="http://www.pinkbike.com/video/218418/"></a> on <a href="http://www.pinkbike.com">pinkbike.com</a></p>

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I could make the chainstay shorter by going single pivot like the other bikes mentioned very easily. But if you want virtual pivot performance (will definitiely be noticable when pedaling) then is 12mm more CS length really a killer especially when it can fit 2.5" tires...?
    No, it is not a killer.. heh, my current AM rig as 26inch bike has 17.1 inch CS _and_ it is a singlepivot.

    Personally i think the BB area looks cool how you have managed to fit everything there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmetless View Post
    Yeeah, let's wait.
    There's no other option than waiting, but could we get some pictures, technical drawings, etc to keep us bussy while waiting

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    .Personally, I hate squat (having owned a lot of squatty bikes), so I'd probably rather have V4B and longer stays, as opposed to short stays and single pivot.
    I think I am the opposite. Geometry trumps any particular suspension design for me. Maybe the V4B will blow my mind. The only way to know is comparison riding. I will absolutely notice a 12mm (1/2" increase) in chainstay length and I can't believe it will be a positive impression. I certainly disliked the RIP's 17.9, although the entire RIP package was sucky super steep as well.

    Anyhoo, will compare the Lenz and Prime (if it ever arrives) straight up and the loser takes a walk Until then, enjoying all my bikes with true center to center chainstay lengths of 16.7", 16.9, 17.3 and 17.3"

    YMMV.
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  38. #38
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    Seems the 2012 Paradox is already available from JensonUSA BUT an almost 30% increase in price from 2011 frame pricing of $600 to now $775? What gives? At these prices, the Canfield Yelli Screamy at $650 is looking real good ATM.
    konahonzo

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    No tapered steerer? 70° hta with 100mm fork? Still the same... hmmm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmetless View Post
    No tapered steerer? 70° hta with 100mm fork? Still the same... hmmm...
    I checked out the JensonUSA website just now and it looks like the pics they have are of the old (MK1) Paradox (no tapered head tube, no direct mount FD).

  41. #41
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    Pics and spec details may be old, but the price is new lol.
    konahonzo

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    The Paradox V2 update will be up on the blog soon... it is already floating around the internet, but we have been letting dealers and distributors check it out before it goes 100% public.
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    I just posted it on our blog... banshee bikes industry insider: Paradox V2

    <a title="View ParadoxV2PR110928 on Scribd" href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/68316780/ParadoxV2PR110928" style="margin: 12px auto 6px auto; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,Sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; display: block; text-decoration: underline;">ParadoxV2PR110928</a><iframe class="scribd_iframe_embed" src="http://www.scribd.com/embeds/68316780/content?start_page=1&view_mode=list&access_key=key-vv7xqq1n57f8sh1ovzu" data-auto-height="true" data-aspect-ratio="0.772727272727273" scrolling="no" id="doc_81391" width="100%" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe>
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  44. #44
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    GREAT!!! Thanks Banshee Bikes!

  45. #45
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    Nice job. Looks great!
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    Looks very, very nice indeed All the changes everyone wanted, well at least what I had on my wish list as far as changes goes. Any idea on colour options?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Looks very, very nice indeed All the changes everyone wanted, well at least what I had on my wish list as far as changes goes. Any idea on colour options?
    I've got to agree with you. Looks really nice!

    According to the Jenson USA listing for 2012 models there is raw, black ano and white.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  48. #48
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    Meah I guess maybe White could be built and accented with some colour, but really would like to see a 2 tone paint job like Banshee have become known for, but this time PC or Ano so it's durable, or at least both paint, as the polish on my Orange/Polish really looks quite beat up already after a year - but I do love how that combo looks
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    I've got to agree with you. Looks really nice!

    According to the Jenson USA listing for 2012 models there is raw, black ano and white.
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    Just black ano and raw (clear coated) will be avaliable for 2012... don't believe everything you read on the internet (although believe this, because it is true! haha)
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  50. #50
    MTB B'dos
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    Hum, not sure which will be more popular, black or raw. For me if I went raw I'd like it just actual real plain raw, no clear coat, that way I could "polish" it up when it got scuffed wit some 1000 grade sandpaper. Personally though I think I'd go Ano Black over the raw/polish, or even better raw no clear and get it custom PCd myself
    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Just black ano and raw (clear coated) will be avaliable for 2012... don't believe everything you read on the internet (although believe this, because it is true! haha)
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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