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  1. #1
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    Let's speculate about the new Banshee 29er!

    From the Spitfire 2013 thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
    Can't wait to see the model Keith is talking about! My wishlist:

    - KS-Link, 120mm of travel
    - 130-140mm fork compatibility
    - adjustable dropouts, like other KS-link bikes
    - aggressive geometry (68-68.5-69 head angle?)
    - weight around 7 lbs with shock

    What do you expect?

  2. #2
    G_g
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    I expect it not to come so soon, as that will make me regret ordering the Prime xD (well, the prime is from the upgrade program, so it isn't that fair of a comparison)

  3. #3
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    maybe 120 120, like the new transition bandit29, leaving the prime to face the covert (140 140)
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

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    If proto's are coming out in spring, I'd guess the finished product will be about a year away - so don't feel bad if you bought a Prime recently!

    I would agree that it's probably going to look a lot like a Prime, but have 110 - 120mm of travel and be a degree steeper HTA than the Prime. 0.25 - 0.5" longer ETT. Fork ATC based on a 120mm 29er fork.

  5. #5
    FM
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    I have no idea where the gossip & rumours are coming from, news to me!

    Even with the heavier prime proto I have.... for trails where it might be "too much" bike, I'd prefer an AM 29" hardtail (yelli/honzo/etc). The prime pedals great, the weight doesn't bother me (light build helps), geometry is the only area where less bike might occasionally be an advantage. For me I think the Prime is the right bike (although I would like the adjustable geometry of the production version). Although again, there will always be a hardtail in the stable. Thats more about keeping my skills sharp than having the perfect bike for a certain trail.


    But the concept is cool- maybe trading in some travel to get shorter stays and wheelbase, for a more hardtail feel.Wouldn't want to sacrifice stiffness or run less fork personally.

  6. #6
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    I want a 150-160mm 29er, that would be swell.

    Really big bike for really big mountains, if one came out I'd sell my Cotic and buy it. But as things stand I' saving up for a Lenz. 130-140mm is such a wasted opportunity...

    #Edit, 200mm travel, 36er and comes with a coffer grinder and crates of Irn Bru.
    Last edited by Fix the Spade; 12-07-2012 at 03:35 PM.

  7. #7
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    120mm rear travel. Carbon fiber!

    My reasoning being that if it is going to be an aluminum 120mm version of the prime, we would have seen some indication in some of the leak promo stuff. (like the KS rampant?) So I think it will be CF. 120mm CF 29er might give them a little more boutique market share.

    That's what I am betting my $0.02 on.

  8. #8
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    I'd guess that whatever Keith has up his sleeve would be a great bike for a single-stall stable, but like FM, I'm probably always going to have both a FS and a hardtail. If I had to come down to one bike, though, a Spitfire-esque 29er would be pretty much what I'd choose.

  9. #9
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwookie View Post
    Carbon fiber!
    That would be sweet- I'm extremely impressed with the carbon stuff I've been riding (Easton Haven rims on the Prime, and a Raleigh road bike). Light, stiff, quiet. Tons of buddies hucking carbon with no issues. I like it!

  10. #10
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    I'd love to see a carbon fiber Banshee!

  11. #11
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    I'm thinking that my Prime/Paradox stable has it pretty much covered for me.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwookie View Post
    120mm rear travel. Carbon fiber!
    This bike almost exists already...Devinci Atlas: Carbon fibre, 110 mm travel. 16.9" chain stays, 29er. Too bad about the head angle and the integrated headset. I'd own one if it weren't for the integrated headset.

    Only a few tweaks for Banshee to create the perfect trail bike.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  13. #13
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    Hey, it' spring... where is the new Banshee? :-D

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    end of may, spring too =))

  15. #15
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    CF DEATHFINITLY !!!!!!!
    Low Weight is the only target PRIME is missing.

    if tank weight is acceptable on PRIME, won't be on lesser travel, more xc oriented bike.

    ppsssssst........PM brake mount would be nice feature.

  16. #16
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    It's going to be sweet, let's just leave it at that As to time frame, like with the Prime, patience is the key, it'll get here soon enough Evasive is right, think this will be the ideal 1 bike stable beast
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    CF DEATHFINITLY !!!!!!!
    Low Weight is the only target PRIME is missing.
    Probably carbon provides the best stiffness to weight ratio, but I'd rather save 1000$ and have a _stiff_ aluminium frame that weights one pound more than a carbon one.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    patience is the key
    Patience is dead with the advent internet teasing pics and/or posts ;-)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    Probably carbon provides the best stiffness to weight ratio, but I'd rather save 1000$ and have a _stiff_ aluminium frame that weights one pound more than a carbon one.
    With just one pound more I don't think It'd be nearly as stiff.

    I think carbon frame cost will drop,

    IMHO of course

  19. #19
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    i think a fixed geometry (no dropouts, no flip chips) and carbon would save a lot of weight?

  20. #20
    FM
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    Based on the information we have so far, this frame weighs next to nothing!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Based on the information we have so far, this frame weighs next to nothing!
    mmmmhhh unleash 007 !!!!

  22. #22
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    Probably we'll see something at Sea Otter... Banshee is listed between the exhibitors.

  23. #23
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    Fingers crossed for a new recumbent! Solar powered dampers!

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  24. #24
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    No more need to speculate, Banshee just posted this sneak peak on their FB page
    Let's speculate about the new Banshee 29er!-902240_511468042245205_1750984399_o.jpg
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  25. #25
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    more interestingly, the stealth dropper cable entry

  26. #26
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    love the black logo.

    seems like the frame is alu and way less burlier then the prime -> much lighter?

  27. #27
    Hard funkinī Kraut
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    Stealth-Routing ->Check
    Black Decals on Anodized is awesome -> Check
    Wheelsize, Travel, Name -> Iīm sorry ...

  28. #28
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    Always interesting to read what you guys are speculating.

    Lets turn his on it's head a little...

    What do you personally want from the new frame?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Always interesting to read what you guys are speculating.

    Lets turn his on it's head a little...

    What do you personally want from the new frame?
    I just bought a superb Prime so I'm not looking forward for another bike,
    but I suppose that the new model will have, in 29ers field, the same relation that exist in 26ers with Spitfire and Rune.
    I'd have gone on CF, because lightness would be an important feature in a more xc oriented bike.

  30. #30
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    How much would you be prepared to pay per gram saved in weight?
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  31. #31
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    I'd expect a price in line with other brands carbon frames ( Santa, Intense, Ibis) maybe little less.

  32. #32
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    Come now Keith, stop teasing, we know you've managed to drop another 1lb+ off this new frame compared to the Prime and it has 17.1-17.4" stays and has 68*/68.5*/69* HTA angles, a real anything type bike except maybe some serious DH/FR Or at least that's my dream. As to carbon, please don't cave on this one, stay away, I like to know I can lay down my bike hard and not have to worry about it
    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    How much would you be prepared to pay per gram saved in weight?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Come now Keith, stop teasing, we know you've managed to drop another 1lb+ off this new frame compared to the Prime and it has 17.1-17.4" stays and has 68*/68.5*/69* HTA angles, a real anything type bike except maybe some serious DH/FR Or at least that's my dream. As to carbon, please don't cave on this one, stay away, I like to know I can lay down my bike hard and not have to worry about it
    ...so a Prime 1.5 as soon as the 1.0 has been released ??

  34. #34
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    Don't worry, it is not a prime 1.5.
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  35. #35
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    yeah, I'd expect less aggressive specs, not too much anyway,
    here it comes !!......Spitfire 29er

  36. #36
    Hard funkinī Kraut
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    If the Prime is the 29ers aggressive AM-Bike, then this one maybe could be the 29ers aggressive XC-Bike. I think I know a thing or three, but sorry, itīs up to Banshee to give official Information ...

  37. #37
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    I'm happy with my Prime, but for less difficult trails a 29er version of the old Spitfire (of course with KS-Link) would be interesting.

    What I would like:
    - no adjustable geo, only slack setting
    - Syntace X-12 dropout/axle system (I had it on 2 bikes, it's light and easy to use - don't like to fiddle around with a 2nd lock screw)
    - all cables on top of the down tube

  38. #38
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    I definitely don't think this is a 1.5 Prime, you can chuck a Prime off a mountain IMHO and pick it up, replace necessary hang on parts and use back old frame no problem I'm definitely thinking or at least seriously hoping, for a more "XC" friendly/pedally type bike, but still want me slacker angles than a typical XC bike, so HTA under 70* for sure, <69* preferably. Can't wait till Thursday for the official release and info
    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    ...so a Prime 1.5 as soon as the 1.0 has been released ??

    Curious how tall you are? I'd guess not over 5'8" and ride a Medium. I say that as routing all cables on the TT leads to some very serious cable kinking/bowing out in my past experience on the XL sizes, which can cause trouble shifting, destroy cables and or be very annoying if they bow out and rub your leg.

    As to the no adjustable geo, it would def save weight, but it would greatly reduce the capabilities of the bike being a "One Bike" for someone who doesn't do DH/FR - ride it in the steepest setting for general trail riding, but if you go visit someplace steep you have the option to slacken it out and enjoy Well actually, after my year + on the Prime I've come to like the slack setting just fine and is what I ride now, but sometimes having steeper angles to make it more XC friendly is nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by walt06 View Post
    I'm happy with my Prime, but for less difficult trails a 29er version of the old Spitfire (of course with KS-Link) would be interesting.

    What I would like:
    - no adjustable geo, only slack setting
    - Syntace X-12 dropout/axle system (I had it on 2 bikes, it's light and easy to use - don't like to fiddle around with a 2nd lock screw)
    - all cables on top of the down tube
    Last edited by LyNx; 04-16-2013 at 05:52 AM.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  39. #39
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    @LyNx

    I wrote "on top of the down tube", like the cables for rear brake and der. are now. I put also the cable for the KS LEV seatpost on the down tube. The cable for front der. I only put along the bottom of the down tube because my remaining piece of cable houising was to short to put it on top with a loop to the side and around the BB, like I did on the Spitfire. Cables disturb least on top of the down tube.
    When I carry my bike up/down stairs etc. I grap it on the top tube and don't like to grab on a cable. When carrying the bike up steep hiking trails I lay it with the down tube on my shoulders/neck and don't like to have a cable there.

    I ride both, steep up and down. The steep setting on my (old) Spitfire I only tried once and didn't liked it even uphill. The Prime I set directly to slack setting and it's spot on for allround use. I would like to have a slacker/lower setting for flowy shaped bike trails.
    As nice as the exchangeable dropouts on the KS-Link bikes are, they are really heavy and I assume that you can save approx. 200g with a light fixed dropout design.

  40. #40
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    Seems like a lot of Riders, for all the Primes, Runes and Spitfires are going with the slack Setting most of the Time. Not sure yet, but maybe Time to think about if the different Geo-Settings are a Must-Have or not?!? The Dropouts add weight, but I like the Possibilities they offer.
    But: If the Decision is going to be made towards fixed Dropouts, an adequate Seattube-Angle has to be found. Me personally I like the changeable Dropouts on the Spitfire, because mostly to change between Wheelsize, which does not appear on this Bike or the Prime. And I too like the Possibility of a really steep Seatangle (74 Deg or steeper), which for me is on of the other major Benefits of the new Geometrys the V2 offers.
    BTW: I too changed the Cable-Routing on my Spitfire - the Frontderailleur-Cable is fixed on the Downtube.

  41. #41
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    Sorry, my bad reading comprehension, reading too fast and not digesting properly. I thought about running my FD along the top of the DT as well, but in the end just went with the existing routing and haven't had any issues to date in the about year of doing so. One side effect of having the FD housing run along the DT is it give a bit of protection from rock strikes, which isn't a bad thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by walt06 View Post
    @LyNx
    I wrote "on top of the down tube", like the cables for rear brake and der. are now. I put also the cable for the KS LEV seatpost on the down tube. The cable for front der. I only put along the bottom of the down tube because my remaining piece of cable houising was to short to put it on top with a loop to the side and around the BB, like I did on the Spitfire. Cables disturb least on top of the down tube.
    Again and again I hear people talk of the STA, when the fact of the matter is, the only effect the STA angle really has on a bike is affecting the Reach in relation to the ETT, because your saddle goes "X" inches/CM behind the BB no matter what the STA is, you just either use a regular post, setback post and run saddle to suit to get you were you want to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    ....But: If the Decision is going to be made towards fixed Dropouts, an adequate Seattube-Angle has to be found. Me personally I like the changeable Dropouts on the Spitfire, because mostly to change between Wheelsize, which does not appear on this Bike or the Prime. And I too like the Possibility of a really steep Seatangle (74 Deg or steeper), which for me is on of the other major Benefits of the new Geometrys the V2 offers.
    BTW: I too changed the Cable-Routing on my Spitfire - the Frontderailleur-Cable is fixed on the Downtube.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    ... Again and again I hear people talk of the STA, when the fact of the matter is, the only effect the STA angle really has on a bike is affecting the Reach in relation to the ETT, because your saddle goes "X" inches/CM behind the BB no matter what the STA is, you just either use a regular post, setback post and run saddle to suit to get you were you want to go.
    I know about the Fact that Seatangles have Affect on the Reach and effective Toptube. Another Fact, for sure you know it, is a different Position (Body more towards and over the BB/more centered over the Bike) compared to slacker SAs. For me personally a lot better Pedalling and more powerfull Legmotion ... and no ... I absolutely donīt want to fiddle with setback-Posts or Stuff like that. Banshee has done a nice Job to steepen up the SAs significantly on the V2s, along with other great Geo-Refinements.

  43. #43
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    My Spitfire frame is due sometime this week but if this is a lightweight 29'er (judging from the Spitfire size tubing) I just might have to rethink it. Rear tire looks to be large radius like a 29'er and maybe it's just the angle but the rocker arm looks to be in a more vertical position and the tire looks much closer to the seat tube. Either shorter stays or reduced travel? Maybe no provision for a FD so it has to be a 1x10 or 1x11?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  44. #44
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    I actually found the reverse, that on my Prime I could run a straight post instead of needing a setback along with saddle back on the rails like I've needed in the past. I'm gone surmise that this is because the ST is bent, the angle increases the more you extend it and hence my finding, unlike a straight tube where the angle would change, but not as dramatically. I find the further back I go on the saddle/behind the BB, the more power you can put down in bigger gears as it engages the bigger muscles of the upper leg/glutes better - does put some hurt on the glutes and inner groin muscles though

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    I know about the Fact that Seatangles have Affect on the Reach and effective Toptube. Another Fact, for sure you know it, is a different Position (Body more towards and over the BB/more centered over the Bike) compared to slacker SAs. For me personally a lot better Pedalling and more powerfull Legmotion ... and no ... I absolutely donīt want to fiddle with setback-Posts or Stuff like that. Banshee has done a nice Job to steepen up the SAs significantly on the V2s, along with other great Geo-Refinements.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  45. #45
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    The rear shock looks small.
    I think it is a short travel 110 -120 mm, very light alu, slack geometry 26.
    I love the black decals on anodized black.
    The stealth internal routing is genius.
    If so, this will be my next bike.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I actually found the reverse, that on my Prime I could run a straight post instead of needing a setback along with saddle back on the rails like I've needed in the past. I'm gone surmise that this is because the ST is bent, the angle increases the more you extend it and hence my finding, unlike a straight tube where the angle would change, but not as dramatically. I find the further back I go on the saddle/behind the BB, the more power you can put down in bigger gears as it engages the bigger muscles of the upper leg/glutes better - does put some hurt on the glutes and inner groin muscles though
    Maybe for 29ers the Seattube-Angle can/has to be slightly different from the 26/650B, due to the longer Chainstays - not sure?!?
    Runes and Spitfires have a virtual 74 Deg SA in the neutral Setting. It may change to 73,5 Deg or something the longer the Saddle is up, which will raise the effective Toptube-Length - but it still remains steep! From my experience I can say that I donīt want it any slacker anymore. Legmotion feels more like going upstairs, or on a Stepper in the Gym, which for me has alot more Power on the Pedals - more downward instead of downward/forward. Feels more natural for me and is more friendly for my Knees. It too helps on Climbing because there is more Power on the front and prevent the Frontwheel to lift up.

    You are on a XL-Prime, if Iīm not wrong, and you must be a tall Man?!? I suspect that a Setback-Post maybe was the only Chance to get the right Toptube/Cockpit-Length in the Past and to avoid needing overly long Stems ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    My Spitfire frame is due sometime this week but if this is a lightweight 29'er (judging from the Spitfire size tubing) I just might have to rethink it. Rear tire looks to be large radius like a 29'er and maybe it's just the angle but the rocker arm looks to be in a more vertical position and the tire looks much closer to the seat tube. Either shorter stays or reduced travel? Maybe no provision for a FD so it has to be a 1x10 or 1x11?
    I bet this is a lighter 29er, with the slimmer Spitfiresque-Tubing, 100-120 mm Travel, of course FD-Directmount, slightly steeper HA and slightly shorter Chainstays. Think of Rune/Prime = Aggro AM, Spitfire/Fresh Puppy called ... = Aggro XC ...

  47. #47
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    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Lynx, I was just about to post the bike rumor link^^^^ in the 29er forum under a new thread titled: Want to see how to make Lynx's head explode.

    Then I checked the Banshee forum because I just knew you were already onto it.

  49. #49
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    I would love my prime to have a 1š slacker head angle in all settings, guess I could just slap a angle reducer headset. I like the higher BB and shorter chainstays on rocky trails of the steep setting, but it is steep enough to remove some confidence. 1š degree would make it like the Slack, and I reckon that the slack setting can be slacker with little trouble
    Keith Scott: If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking

  50. #50
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    Go right ahead man, I'm really digging this new frame, waiting patiently for confirmed info on exactly what it is spec wise, angles etc and of course weight - still thinking this is going to be a killer, slack angle "XC" bike, made to run a 120mm fork, but we'll wait and see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Lynx, I was just about to post the bike rumor link^^^^ in the 29er forum under a new thread titled: Want to see how to make Lynx's head explode.

    Then I checked the Banshee forum because I just knew you were already onto it.
    You know, when I first got my Prime I noticed the lower BB in the slack setting immediately when I gave it a try and immediately went back to the steep setting. Now just over a year later and a few thousand miles on it, I run it in the slack setting and don't notice the lower BB at all. I think what happened initially was the Prime is such a beast in monster truck type way that you could just plow over nearly anything and having the higher BB helped this and made it even more fun, but fact is, that even in the slack setting the BB is still a good 1/2"> taller than any previous bike I've had, so I just guess I got back in touch with a little pedal stroke timing and am enjoying the more confident descending in the slack setting now.
    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    I would love my prime to have a 1š slacker head angle in all settings, guess I could just slap a angle reducer headset. I like the higher BB and shorter chainstays on rocky trails of the steep setting, but it is steep enough to remove some confidence. 1š degree would make it like the Slack, and I reckon that the slack setting can be slacker with little trouble
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    WOW! Looks nice. Like the slim tubing.

  52. #52
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    Bike looks excellent. Pending the ride, I think 100mm bike makes a lot of sense. Would love to try one. Perfect for NW flow.

  53. #53
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    Ahhh ... the allnew Phantom ... looks really great!
    Now that it is official: Maybe it was a Mistake, but I know about this upcoming Bike since July 2012 and had to promise to keep my Lips closed - I swear by the Life of my beloved Mum that I did!!!
    Now itīs so cool to see the Development turning from early Numbers on an Excel-Chart into a real Bike.

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    how slack is slack enough? all personal feel i guess. sometimes i do wonder though, when someone says, not slack enough, even on this Prime, i gotta wonder why, as in an honest why. a 67 is virtually equivalent to a 66 on a 26er, and at what point are the diminishing returns of going way way way slack?

  55. #55
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    Longer, more in-depth writeup on PB. Here.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    how slack is slack enough? all personal feel i guess. sometimes i do wonder though, when someone says, not slack enough, even on this Prime, i gotta wonder why, as in an honest why. a 67 is virtually equivalent to a 66 on a 26er, and at what point are the diminishing returns of going way way way slack?
    Of course, so many other variables that figure in....I did a whistler/Squamish trip on my old Yelli Screamy with a fox 120 fork and found it to be slack enough for the steeps. It was probably 69 degrees.

    I think the prime is perfect- 67.5 felt great on fromme. On a production prime Ill try the mid setting for local all mountain stuff. For this shorter travel bike I'd think 68/69/70 with a 140 would be plenty slack. So +1d steeper with a 120 fork which makes sense for a more trail oriented bike. Too slack on a 29r and cornering can get sluggish.

  57. #57
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    Some more info:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/i7EX8dcutuQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Banshee’s Phantom – 100mm 29er – Their answer to a Fast 29er Trail Bike

    First Look: Banshee's Prototype Phantom 29er - Sea Otter 2013 - Pinkbike

    And I like Banshee's theme of sticking with P-letter starting names for their 29er models.
    Last edited by eurospek; 04-19-2013 at 03:08 PM.
    konahonzo

  58. #58
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    Wow I want. This may be the first bike in a long time to tempt me away from my Canfield The One. I'm looking for a slack, short travel trail killer and turn the One into a more DH/FR rig and this seems to be the perfect sled for that! I've been seriously considering a Prime, but this may well be the ticket! Can't wait to swing a leg over it.

  59. #59
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    The bike looks really good: slimmer tubing and "stealth" sticker scheme give it a nice and elegant touch. I'm a bit disappointed with travel: I know you can't judge a frame just on its travel but I guess that, for trail riding, something more would be a bonus. Probably Banshee didn't want to approach Prime territory too much... but I think that, by the time the Phantom will be in production, the Prime will have received a bump in travel to keep up with competitors.

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    I am really digging this frame. Since I saw the pictures, I have been searching for more info daily. This is what I have been wanting for a while. The Prime had been at the top of my list for a fs frame to get but have been hesitant since it is a bit much for where I ride. Liking the idea of 140/100 ish setup for a playful 29er, running a 120mm fork on my HT. This would compliment the ht nicely.
    Glad, Banshee hasn't forgotten about us riders that would like to keep their 135mm rear wheel.
    If it had an old english 'B' on the top tube, a la Morphine, it would take the cake -don't care if it matches the rest of the style.
    Any ideas when this will be ready for purchase? 2015 is too far away, I want to ride this today

  61. #61
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    Is there any information about the release date?I'M in the market for a 29er and this one would be top pick for me.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikingDaddy View Post
    Is there any information about the release date?I'M in the market for a 29er and this one would be top pick for me.
    Not at the moment...bet its next year released.

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    Been dreaming of a Paradox dually,

    First I must repent my sins. Please forgive me.
    Being a diehard Banshee fan, V1 Spitfire and V1 Paradox. I was looking for a 29er dually. I am man enough to admit the Prime is to much bike for me and my riding, more trail - Enduro riding.
    So I built up a Devinci Atlas Alloy. Hard to go pass those short chain stays. It is a good bike second only to the paradox for 29er flickability on fast flowy single track.
    Yes I would like a slacker head angle. But all in all for a non Banshee it is a good bike.

    For this type of bike Keith, 110mm rear travel is plenty, with the 120mm Fork.

    Keith any chance of one of these protype bikes heading down under to Australia? I would love to give some feed back on this compared to the Paradox and the Atlas.

    Distributers for Australia been sorted out yet?
    Hardtails are for the road, Full Sus is for the dirt. Guess what...PARADOX... Its wrong that a Hardtail can be this much..FUN

  64. #64
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    First off, we have been working dealer direct in Australia through a few good dealers, as the market doesn't really have space for distributors we have found. So bikes are avaliable there.

    The few phantom protos are in high demand in our biggest markets for us and probably not going to make it to aus before the production frames start coming out the factory... take from that what you will. (Hint, it might be a good thing!).

    I do intend to offer this frame with a 120mm forks and travel at the back will be a touch less than 110mm. All I can really say is that we are LOVING the way the protos ride, so not much requires changing really. I wouldn't say the Phantom was so much a ful sus paradox, more a 29er spitfire... it shreds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydo View Post
    First I must repent my sins. Please forgive me.
    Being a diehard Banshee fan, V1 Spitfire and V1 Paradox. I was looking for a 29er dually. I am man enough to admit the Prime is to much bike for me and my riding, more trail - Enduro riding.
    So I built up a Devinci Atlas Alloy. Hard to go pass those short chain stays. It is a good bike second only to the paradox for 29er flickability on fast flowy single track.
    Yes I would like a slacker head angle. But all in all for a non Banshee it is a good bike.

    For this type of bike Keith, 110mm rear travel is plenty, with the 120mm Fork.

    Keith any chance of one of these protype bikes heading down under to Australia? I would love to give some feed back on this compared to the Paradox and the Atlas.

    Distributers for Australia been sorted out yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I do intend to offer this frame with a 120mm forks and travel at the back will be a touch less than 110mm. All I can really say is that we are LOVING the way the protos ride, so not much requires changing really. I wouldn't say the Phantom was so much a ful sus paradox, more a 29er spitfire... it shreds!
    Keith,

    any chance you might drop a word on the weight of the frame?
    Building up a Rune V2 in the next few days for steep, technical, high alpine riding. Want to get a Phantom as a fast aggressive Trail rig, that I do fast multi day traverses in the Alps on, still with technical descents. Don't want the weight or burliness of the Prime. Will the Phantom frame be stiff enough for a 200lbs guy (ready to ride)?

    Thanks a bunch!
    alex

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockymonster View Post
    Keith,

    any chance you might drop a word on the weight of the frame?
    Building up a Rune V2 in the next few days for steep, technical, high alpine riding. Want to get a Phantom as a fast aggressive Trail rig, that I do fast multi day traverses in the Alps on, still with technical descents. Don't want the weight or burliness of the Prime. Will the Phantom frame be stiff enough for a 200lbs guy (ready to ride)?

    Thanks a bunch!
    alex
    Since frames aren't in production yet I can't really give a weight yet, but the should be a bit lighter than the proto, and theiy all built up between 26 and 30lbs. For a 200lbs guy I would recommend going towards the 30lbs end of the spectrum as stiffer wheel etc will make you climb faster and easier. The Phantom is more than capable as a trail bike for a 200lbs rider.
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    cool, thanks for the quick answer!

  68. #68
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    I suppose its too early to ask about production colours? Presumably stealth, raw and ?

    If its worth anything I vote CanAM yellow

  69. #69
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    Just came across the Banshee Phantom and this thread. This is the bike that I've been hoping somebody would make. I think it would be the perfect bike for PNW trails.

    Any new news?
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  70. #70
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    Nope, nothing new recently. To recap, 100-110mm rear travel to be used with forks in the 110-130mm travel range, frame built lighter like the Spitfire compared to the Rune, will still have adjustable geo via flip chips, HA somewhere around 67-68*, pretty much a 29er Spitfire. Can't wait for this myself, will be perfect for me and my trails.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Just came across the Banshee Phantom and this thread. This is the bike that I've been hoping somebody would make. I think it would be the perfect bike for PNW trails.

    Any new news?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  71. #71
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    Any idea about the expected release date for the Phantom? Spring of '14? Summer? Fall? I'm currently researching 29er frames for purchase sometime around next April. This bike would be a serious candidate if it's available.

  72. #72
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    Last I'd heard from Keith was they were trying to get production frames out by summer, but as he said, a lot can change in that time and things can go forward smoother or with more hassles. I'm hoping they're done so I can get one for my 45th Bday end of summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by 12snap View Post
    Any idea about the expected release date for the Phantom? Spring of '14? Summer? Fall? I'm currently researching 29er frames for purchase sometime around next April. This bike would be a serious candidate if it's available.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    @builttoride: I can't decide if I should go for a Spitfire (using 650b wheels) now or wait, see the Phantom specifications and then decide. I currenty ride a SJ FSR 29" and I'm quite liking the big wheels: lots of traction, climbs everywhere and really stable on the descents (but not as nimble as I'd like in very tight stuff). I guess the Phantom is going to pedal better than a Spitfire, but I'm a bit scared of having just 110mm of travel for rough stuff or (occasional) jumps. I'd like to use a F34/Pike in my build since every 29"/32mm stanchion fork I tried seems a bit flexy... but I don't know if 140mm front/110mm back is going to work fine. On the other hand I don't know if a Spitfire will be more nimble than my SJ (wheelbase is 3cm longer and head tube angle 3 degrees slacker!) and if it's going to be pedal well. I ride everyting: from really steep and technical descents to 70-80km epic rides, but mostly ~30km singletrack loops with many kinds of terrain (I guess that's defined as "trail riding").
    What would you suggest? Thank you.

  74. #74
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    Well, I'm certain you would love the spitfire with 650b wheels, it will be more nimble, and probably just as stable as your current bike due to the planted geometry.
    But if you do want to wait 6 months or so for the phantom... we will be selling it with a 120mm Pike, and I know it feels great with that setup, as I too felt that 32mm stanchions didn't cut it for the way the Phantom is made to be ridden.
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  75. #75
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    I wasn't certain whether that was an option for the Pike, but it sounds like a perfect match for the Phantom.

  76. #76
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    I would personally say wait for the Phantom or get a Prime. Lots of guys here riding the SJ FSRs and so I've worked on a few and test ridden them and the long stays on them are what make them so dead, much prefer my 34lb+ Prime anyday to one those <30lb SJ FSRs. Ontop of the shorter stays you've got the adjustable geo and stiffness that Banshee frames are known for. Not sure what your riding is like (slow tech or fast etc) but for me on the chunky, slow tech I love so much the Prime is AMAZING, holds it's line, feels planted, very reassuring on this type of stuff and I'm on an XL, but prob should be on a L, still no worries navigating the tighter stuff.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    But if you do want to wait 6 months or so for the phantom... we will be selling it with a 120mm Pike, and I know it feels great with that setup, as I too felt that 32mm stanchions didn't cut it for the way the Phantom is made to be ridden.
    This is sounding even more appealing.

    Have you settled on the amount of rear travel?
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  78. #78
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    Final details of the phantom will be released in early 2014.
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    As I 270lb clyde I have been eying up the Prime because of its extra burly frame, but have been shy to buy because it is overkill for my riding terrain.

    I am thinking the Phantom is going to click all the boxes for me. Time to start saving the pennies.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    @builttoride: I can't decide if I should go for a Spitfire (using 650b wheels) now or wait, see the Phantom specifications and then decide. I currenty ride a SJ FSR 29" and I'm quite liking the big wheels: lots of traction, climbs everywhere and really stable on the descents (but not as nimble as I'd like in very tight stuff). I guess the Phantom is going to pedal better than a Spitfire, but I'm a bit scared of having just 110mm of travel for rough stuff or (occasional) jumps. I'd like to use a F34/Pike in my build since every 29"/32mm stanchion fork I tried seems a bit flexy... but I don't know if 140mm front/110mm back is going to work fine. On the other hand I don't know if a Spitfire will be more nimble than my SJ (wheelbase is 3cm longer and head tube angle 3 degrees slacker!) and if it's going to be pedal well. I ride everyting: from really steep and technical descents to 70-80km epic rides, but mostly ~30km singletrack loops with many kinds of terrain (I guess that's defined as "trail riding").
    What would you suggest? Thank you.
    Iīm on a 650B Spitfire and like to say it pedals exceptional well. But this is due to the really good KS-Link-Design and the great Geometries overall, which appears on every Banshee like Prime, Rune and the upcoming Phantom. The 29 Wheel will smoothing out Terrain more because of the larger Diameter.
    Plus what Keith has mentioned: Itīs Geometry is greatly known for being playfull enough while it is on the low & slack Side.

    I can imagine the Phantom will become the fantastic 29-Version of the Spitfire, as the Geometry Banshee will turn out always is more aggressive than average. Therefor good Quote for a reasonable stiff Fork that can compete with the rear Suspension, even with possibly 110 mm "only". Itīs the Quality of Travel, not the Quantity!
    So if you already like the 29 Wheel I would wait till the Phantom is finalised. And try to get a demoride on a 650B Spitfire in the Meantime, to check out if you like it.

  81. #81
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    Thank you guys for your opinions! Guess I'll wait 2014 for Phantom details and then decide!

  82. #82
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    This Phantom is definitely sounding like the FS 29er I've been waiting for that truly fits my riding & trails. Time to start saving up also!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  83. #83
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    So let have some more details. Is this a more XC friendly Prime? I was looking at getting a Prime but this seems closer to what I wanted. I read complete bikes will weigh closer to 25lbs than 30lbs. Although I'm not afraid of weight as my current ride is a 29lb steel HT.

  84. #84
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    Yea, my XC but to get tech its labeled as trail. Weight should be managable.

  85. #85
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    Yesterday I spent some time on an Enduro Expert 29er. It changed my mind about "long travel" 29ers (but that's another story) and about 1x transmissions. Silent, smooth shifting without having to think about front derailleur and weird front/rear cogs combinations... it's awesome! The only concern: the 32t chainring is a bit hard to pedal on a 29er... 30t or possibly 28t would make things better (as I can totally live with 28x10 as higher gear). Keith, what about 1x compatibility for the Phantom? Will the suspension work well with a 28t/30t chainring in the front? Thank you!

  86. #86
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    The phantom is designed to work well with 28-30 tooth chainrings, as I know a lot of peiple will want to set them up as 1x10 or 1x11.
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    @builttoride
    Keith,

    any word on Spitfire 650B vs. Phantom - in terms of covering ground fast und long alpine asphalt/ forest road climbs, and descending ability in steeper and tech terrain?
    Same build basically, likely with 150mm/ 120mm Pikes.

    Faster climbing on the Phantom?

    Thanks!

  88. #88
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    29ers are not magic, they do not somehow give you more travel than you actually have There is no replacement for displacement i.e. Any 150mm travel bike is going to handle the DHs better than a 120mm travel bike both with similar angles, especially the more knarly it gets.

    What I'm curious about is the fork range Keith's designing the Phantom to use, wonder if he'll allow up to a 140mm travel fork say with travel adjust, so 110-140 for the DHs? Also still waiting on the announcement of the final rear travel, 100mm, 110mm, 120mm?? AND, with the lesser travel has he managed to shorten up the rear? Can't wait until production is done, this is o tailor made for our trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by cockymonster View Post
    @builttoride
    Keith,

    any word on Spitfire 650B vs. Phantom - in terms of covering ground fast und long alpine asphalt/ forest road climbs, and descending ability in steeper and tech terrain?
    Same build basically, likely with 150mm/ 120mm Pikes.

    Faster climbing on the Phantom?

    Thanks!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  89. #89
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    As we get closer to release dates of the Phantom, does Banshee want to give any hints about what it might weigh? Less than the Rune V1?


    The new Salsa Spearfish proves that an alloy short travel 29er can hit 6lbs or less, now if only Banshee could hit those numbers along with being Banshee rowdiness-ready. That'd be rad.

    I'd probably own a Spearfish if I weren't so afraid of busting it up.
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  90. #90
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    At Banshee we focus on pure riding performance, not a bike that is a little easier to lift onto a bike rack. Have a sh*t before you ride and you'll save the weight of running a weight weenie limp noodle bike.
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  91. #91
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    Wouldn't a lighter bike technically offer better performance all things equal?

    No offense Keith, but that comments comes off as "we don't feel like messing with carbon and want our customers to ignore its benefits."0

    PS: I'm not advocating for a noodley bike. I'm just hoping Banshee knows how to achieve both a competitive weight (6lbs) and be strong enough to abuse within limits.
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  92. #92
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    What I was getting at is that this is not an XC bike, it is designed to be ridden hard and aggressively as all banshee's are. I could easily cut weight, but as a result would sacrifice frame stiffness which would result in poorer riding performance. One major thing of note that many overlook, is that a latterally stiff bike that weighs a couple of hudred grams heavier than a flexy light bike will not only accelerate faster, but also be more efficient on long climbs, and totally dominate on descents.

    Yes, equal stiffness could probably be achieved with carbon, no desputing that, but I don't feel I can justify the $1000+ price increase it would take to save maybe 400g max to achieve this. If carbon was the same price, showed when it was damaged, and was as environmentally friendly as alloy then we would only make carbon bikes.

    We want to continue to focus on making alloy bikes that out perform the far more expensive carbon competition. This way our customers can do things ike go on expensive riding holidays to amazing locations with the money they have saved! Plus we know that the vast majority of our customers want to ride harder than most competitors bikes will be able to handle (especially true for phantom considering other bikes in the travel range), and want it in a good value package.

    Sure we could do what all other bike brands do, and follow all the same trends and offer something that performs on par, weighs about the same, costs about the same and doesn't stand out... but we prefer to make bold descisions to satisfy customers who need something aimed at more aggressive riders. I hope that made sense. I don't mean to come across as arrogant or stuborn, it's just that we have chosen where our focus lies (our niche, we are a very small niche company after all) and are pushing the limits in a certain direction to satisfy what the majority of our customers are asking for.
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  93. #93
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    Which is exactly what draws me to a bike design like this!! There are other companies for the spandex clad crew. Even if there was a Carbon version of the bike, I'd take the AL over it every time.

    I'd rather know the frame is burly enough to handle me than always be wandering.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Which is exactly what draws me to a bike design like this!! There are other companies for the spandex clad crew.
    Exactly.

  95. #95
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    I think Keith summed it up pretty well, Banshee riders like to know that the frame isn't the weak point while riding. As for weight, if my calculations are correct from looking at the prototype and from my Prime proto, the 1.5lbs it dropped going into production and the more specific tubing and gussets, I'd guess that an Phantom in XL will prob weigh 7.5lbs and damned solid. Yes, the time draws nearer as my ideal bike comes to fruition
    Last edited by LyNx; 01-17-2014 at 05:09 PM. Reason: spelling
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  96. #96
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    I really do think that PHeller is the first person here abouts to ***** about Banshee frame weights. If I took a shit, and ate less ice cream, I could probably be rocking near carbon frame performance. Hmmm. Take a shit, less ice cream, get a hair cut, and quit wearing socks when I ride. We may be onto something here.

  97. #97
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Take a shit, less ice cream, get a hair cut, and quit wearing socks when I ride. We may be onto something here.
    Also a fan of going through the camelback for weight savings. No keys, wallet, phone, crusty old food & empty beer cans, carry a filter instead of excess water, etc etc. It does all make a difference on the big rides....

    I'm following this thread, and love the discussion!

    For this AM/XC area I typically lean towards a AM29 hardtail, always keep one around. I'll be curious to see how things develop...I'm sure this will be an awesome bike.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    I'm following this thread, and love the discussion!

    For this AM/XC area I typically lean towards a AM29 hardtail, always keep one around. I'll be curious to see how things develop...I'm sure this will be an awesome bike.
    And just when I was thinking that a Paradox and a Prime fulfilled all of my needs.

  99. #99
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    I'll end up with a quiver of quiver killers.

  100. #100
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I'll end up with a quiver of quiver killers.
    Hard to argue with that strategy!

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