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  1. #1
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    Let's speculate about the new Banshee 29er!

    From the Spitfire 2013 thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
    Can't wait to see the model Keith is talking about! My wishlist:

    - KS-Link, 120mm of travel
    - 130-140mm fork compatibility
    - adjustable dropouts, like other KS-link bikes
    - aggressive geometry (68-68.5-69 head angle?)
    - weight around 7 lbs with shock

    What do you expect?

  2. #2
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    I expect it not to come so soon, as that will make me regret ordering the Prime xD (well, the prime is from the upgrade program, so it isn't that fair of a comparison)

  3. #3
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    maybe 120 120, like the new transition bandit29, leaving the prime to face the covert (140 140)
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    If proto's are coming out in spring, I'd guess the finished product will be about a year away - so don't feel bad if you bought a Prime recently!

    I would agree that it's probably going to look a lot like a Prime, but have 110 - 120mm of travel and be a degree steeper HTA than the Prime. 0.25 - 0.5" longer ETT. Fork ATC based on a 120mm 29er fork.

  5. #5
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    I have no idea where the gossip & rumours are coming from, news to me!

    Even with the heavier prime proto I have.... for trails where it might be "too much" bike, I'd prefer an AM 29" hardtail (yelli/honzo/etc). The prime pedals great, the weight doesn't bother me (light build helps), geometry is the only area where less bike might occasionally be an advantage. For me I think the Prime is the right bike (although I would like the adjustable geometry of the production version). Although again, there will always be a hardtail in the stable. Thats more about keeping my skills sharp than having the perfect bike for a certain trail.


    But the concept is cool- maybe trading in some travel to get shorter stays and wheelbase, for a more hardtail feel.Wouldn't want to sacrifice stiffness or run less fork personally.

  6. #6
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    I want a 150-160mm 29er, that would be swell.

    Really big bike for really big mountains, if one came out I'd sell my Cotic and buy it. But as things stand I' saving up for a Lenz. 130-140mm is such a wasted opportunity...

    #Edit, 200mm travel, 36er and comes with a coffer grinder and crates of Irn Bru.
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  7. #7
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    120mm rear travel. Carbon fiber!

    My reasoning being that if it is going to be an aluminum 120mm version of the prime, we would have seen some indication in some of the leak promo stuff. (like the KS rampant?) So I think it will be CF. 120mm CF 29er might give them a little more boutique market share.

    That's what I am betting my $0.02 on.

  8. #8
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    I'd guess that whatever Keith has up his sleeve would be a great bike for a single-stall stable, but like FM, I'm probably always going to have both a FS and a hardtail. If I had to come down to one bike, though, a Spitfire-esque 29er would be pretty much what I'd choose.
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  9. #9
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwookie View Post
    Carbon fiber!
    That would be sweet- I'm extremely impressed with the carbon stuff I've been riding (Easton Haven rims on the Prime, and a Raleigh road bike). Light, stiff, quiet. Tons of buddies hucking carbon with no issues. I like it!

  10. #10
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    I'd love to see a carbon fiber Banshee!

  11. #11
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    I'm thinking that my Prime/Paradox stable has it pretty much covered for me.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwookie View Post
    120mm rear travel. Carbon fiber!
    This bike almost exists already...Devinci Atlas: Carbon fibre, 110 mm travel. 16.9" chain stays, 29er. Too bad about the head angle and the integrated headset. I'd own one if it weren't for the integrated headset.

    Only a few tweaks for Banshee to create the perfect trail bike.
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  13. #13
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    Hey, it' spring... where is the new Banshee? :-D

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    end of may, spring too =))

  15. #15
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    CF DEATHFINITLY !!!!!!!
    Low Weight is the only target PRIME is missing.

    if tank weight is acceptable on PRIME, won't be on lesser travel, more xc oriented bike.

    ppsssssst........PM brake mount would be nice feature.

  16. #16
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    It's going to be sweet, let's just leave it at that As to time frame, like with the Prime, patience is the key, it'll get here soon enough Evasive is right, think this will be the ideal 1 bike stable beast
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    CF DEATHFINITLY !!!!!!!
    Low Weight is the only target PRIME is missing.
    Probably carbon provides the best stiffness to weight ratio, but I'd rather save 1000$ and have a _stiff_ aluminium frame that weights one pound more than a carbon one.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    patience is the key
    Patience is dead with the advent internet teasing pics and/or posts ;-)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    Probably carbon provides the best stiffness to weight ratio, but I'd rather save 1000$ and have a _stiff_ aluminium frame that weights one pound more than a carbon one.
    With just one pound more I don't think It'd be nearly as stiff.

    I think carbon frame cost will drop,

    IMHO of course

  19. #19
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    i think a fixed geometry (no dropouts, no flip chips) and carbon would save a lot of weight?

  20. #20
    FM
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    Based on the information we have so far, this frame weighs next to nothing!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Based on the information we have so far, this frame weighs next to nothing!
    mmmmhhh unleash 007 !!!!

  22. #22
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    Probably we'll see something at Sea Otter... Banshee is listed between the exhibitors.

  23. #23
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    Fingers crossed for a new recumbent! Solar powered dampers!

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  24. #24
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    No more need to speculate, Banshee just posted this sneak peak on their FB page
    Let's speculate about the new Banshee 29er!-902240_511468042245205_1750984399_o.jpg
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  25. #25
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    more interestingly, the stealth dropper cable entry

  26. #26
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    love the black logo.

    seems like the frame is alu and way less burlier then the prime -> much lighter?

  27. #27
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    Stealth-Routing ->Check
    Black Decals on Anodized is awesome -> Check
    Wheelsize, Travel, Name -> Iīm sorry ...

  28. #28
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    Always interesting to read what you guys are speculating.

    Lets turn his on it's head a little...

    What do you personally want from the new frame?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Always interesting to read what you guys are speculating.

    Lets turn his on it's head a little...

    What do you personally want from the new frame?
    I just bought a superb Prime so I'm not looking forward for another bike,
    but I suppose that the new model will have, in 29ers field, the same relation that exist in 26ers with Spitfire and Rune.
    I'd have gone on CF, because lightness would be an important feature in a more xc oriented bike.

  30. #30
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    How much would you be prepared to pay per gram saved in weight?
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  31. #31
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    I'd expect a price in line with other brands carbon frames ( Santa, Intense, Ibis) maybe little less.

  32. #32
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    Come now Keith, stop teasing, we know you've managed to drop another 1lb+ off this new frame compared to the Prime and it has 17.1-17.4" stays and has 68*/68.5*/69* HTA angles, a real anything type bike except maybe some serious DH/FR Or at least that's my dream. As to carbon, please don't cave on this one, stay away, I like to know I can lay down my bike hard and not have to worry about it
    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    How much would you be prepared to pay per gram saved in weight?
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Come now Keith, stop teasing, we know you've managed to drop another 1lb+ off this new frame compared to the Prime and it has 17.1-17.4" stays and has 68*/68.5*/69* HTA angles, a real anything type bike except maybe some serious DH/FR Or at least that's my dream. As to carbon, please don't cave on this one, stay away, I like to know I can lay down my bike hard and not have to worry about it
    ...so a Prime 1.5 as soon as the 1.0 has been released ??

  34. #34
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    Don't worry, it is not a prime 1.5.
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  35. #35
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    yeah, I'd expect less aggressive specs, not too much anyway,
    here it comes !!......Spitfire 29er

  36. #36
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    If the Prime is the 29ers aggressive AM-Bike, then this one maybe could be the 29ers aggressive XC-Bike. I think I know a thing or three, but sorry, itīs up to Banshee to give official Information ...

  37. #37
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    I'm happy with my Prime, but for less difficult trails a 29er version of the old Spitfire (of course with KS-Link) would be interesting.

    What I would like:
    - no adjustable geo, only slack setting
    - Syntace X-12 dropout/axle system (I had it on 2 bikes, it's light and easy to use - don't like to fiddle around with a 2nd lock screw)
    - all cables on top of the down tube

  38. #38
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    I definitely don't think this is a 1.5 Prime, you can chuck a Prime off a mountain IMHO and pick it up, replace necessary hang on parts and use back old frame no problem I'm definitely thinking or at least seriously hoping, for a more "XC" friendly/pedally type bike, but still want me slacker angles than a typical XC bike, so HTA under 70* for sure, <69* preferably. Can't wait till Thursday for the official release and info
    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    ...so a Prime 1.5 as soon as the 1.0 has been released ??

    Curious how tall you are? I'd guess not over 5'8" and ride a Medium. I say that as routing all cables on the TT leads to some very serious cable kinking/bowing out in my past experience on the XL sizes, which can cause trouble shifting, destroy cables and or be very annoying if they bow out and rub your leg.

    As to the no adjustable geo, it would def save weight, but it would greatly reduce the capabilities of the bike being a "One Bike" for someone who doesn't do DH/FR - ride it in the steepest setting for general trail riding, but if you go visit someplace steep you have the option to slacken it out and enjoy Well actually, after my year + on the Prime I've come to like the slack setting just fine and is what I ride now, but sometimes having steeper angles to make it more XC friendly is nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by walt06 View Post
    I'm happy with my Prime, but for less difficult trails a 29er version of the old Spitfire (of course with KS-Link) would be interesting.

    What I would like:
    - no adjustable geo, only slack setting
    - Syntace X-12 dropout/axle system (I had it on 2 bikes, it's light and easy to use - don't like to fiddle around with a 2nd lock screw)
    - all cables on top of the down tube
    Last edited by LyNx; 04-16-2013 at 06:52 AM.
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  39. #39
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    @LyNx

    I wrote "on top of the down tube", like the cables for rear brake and der. are now. I put also the cable for the KS LEV seatpost on the down tube. The cable for front der. I only put along the bottom of the down tube because my remaining piece of cable houising was to short to put it on top with a loop to the side and around the BB, like I did on the Spitfire. Cables disturb least on top of the down tube.
    When I carry my bike up/down stairs etc. I grap it on the top tube and don't like to grab on a cable. When carrying the bike up steep hiking trails I lay it with the down tube on my shoulders/neck and don't like to have a cable there.

    I ride both, steep up and down. The steep setting on my (old) Spitfire I only tried once and didn't liked it even uphill. The Prime I set directly to slack setting and it's spot on for allround use. I would like to have a slacker/lower setting for flowy shaped bike trails.
    As nice as the exchangeable dropouts on the KS-Link bikes are, they are really heavy and I assume that you can save approx. 200g with a light fixed dropout design.

  40. #40
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    Seems like a lot of Riders, for all the Primes, Runes and Spitfires are going with the slack Setting most of the Time. Not sure yet, but maybe Time to think about if the different Geo-Settings are a Must-Have or not?!? The Dropouts add weight, but I like the Possibilities they offer.
    But: If the Decision is going to be made towards fixed Dropouts, an adequate Seattube-Angle has to be found. Me personally I like the changeable Dropouts on the Spitfire, because mostly to change between Wheelsize, which does not appear on this Bike or the Prime. And I too like the Possibility of a really steep Seatangle (74 Deg or steeper), which for me is on of the other major Benefits of the new Geometrys the V2 offers.
    BTW: I too changed the Cable-Routing on my Spitfire - the Frontderailleur-Cable is fixed on the Downtube.

  41. #41
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    Sorry, my bad reading comprehension, reading too fast and not digesting properly. I thought about running my FD along the top of the DT as well, but in the end just went with the existing routing and haven't had any issues to date in the about year of doing so. One side effect of having the FD housing run along the DT is it give a bit of protection from rock strikes, which isn't a bad thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by walt06 View Post
    @LyNx
    I wrote "on top of the down tube", like the cables for rear brake and der. are now. I put also the cable for the KS LEV seatpost on the down tube. The cable for front der. I only put along the bottom of the down tube because my remaining piece of cable houising was to short to put it on top with a loop to the side and around the BB, like I did on the Spitfire. Cables disturb least on top of the down tube.
    Again and again I hear people talk of the STA, when the fact of the matter is, the only effect the STA angle really has on a bike is affecting the Reach in relation to the ETT, because your saddle goes "X" inches/CM behind the BB no matter what the STA is, you just either use a regular post, setback post and run saddle to suit to get you were you want to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    ....But: If the Decision is going to be made towards fixed Dropouts, an adequate Seattube-Angle has to be found. Me personally I like the changeable Dropouts on the Spitfire, because mostly to change between Wheelsize, which does not appear on this Bike or the Prime. And I too like the Possibility of a really steep Seatangle (74 Deg or steeper), which for me is on of the other major Benefits of the new Geometrys the V2 offers.
    BTW: I too changed the Cable-Routing on my Spitfire - the Frontderailleur-Cable is fixed on the Downtube.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    ... Again and again I hear people talk of the STA, when the fact of the matter is, the only effect the STA angle really has on a bike is affecting the Reach in relation to the ETT, because your saddle goes "X" inches/CM behind the BB no matter what the STA is, you just either use a regular post, setback post and run saddle to suit to get you were you want to go.
    I know about the Fact that Seatangles have Affect on the Reach and effective Toptube. Another Fact, for sure you know it, is a different Position (Body more towards and over the BB/more centered over the Bike) compared to slacker SAs. For me personally a lot better Pedalling and more powerfull Legmotion ... and no ... I absolutely donīt want to fiddle with setback-Posts or Stuff like that. Banshee has done a nice Job to steepen up the SAs significantly on the V2s, along with other great Geo-Refinements.

  43. #43
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    My Spitfire frame is due sometime this week but if this is a lightweight 29'er (judging from the Spitfire size tubing) I just might have to rethink it. Rear tire looks to be large radius like a 29'er and maybe it's just the angle but the rocker arm looks to be in a more vertical position and the tire looks much closer to the seat tube. Either shorter stays or reduced travel? Maybe no provision for a FD so it has to be a 1x10 or 1x11?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  44. #44
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    I actually found the reverse, that on my Prime I could run a straight post instead of needing a setback along with saddle back on the rails like I've needed in the past. I'm gone surmise that this is because the ST is bent, the angle increases the more you extend it and hence my finding, unlike a straight tube where the angle would change, but not as dramatically. I find the further back I go on the saddle/behind the BB, the more power you can put down in bigger gears as it engages the bigger muscles of the upper leg/glutes better - does put some hurt on the glutes and inner groin muscles though

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    I know about the Fact that Seatangles have Affect on the Reach and effective Toptube. Another Fact, for sure you know it, is a different Position (Body more towards and over the BB/more centered over the Bike) compared to slacker SAs. For me personally a lot better Pedalling and more powerfull Legmotion ... and no ... I absolutely donīt want to fiddle with setback-Posts or Stuff like that. Banshee has done a nice Job to steepen up the SAs significantly on the V2s, along with other great Geo-Refinements.
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  45. #45
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    The rear shock looks small.
    I think it is a short travel 110 -120 mm, very light alu, slack geometry 26.
    I love the black decals on anodized black.
    The stealth internal routing is genius.
    If so, this will be my next bike.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I actually found the reverse, that on my Prime I could run a straight post instead of needing a setback along with saddle back on the rails like I've needed in the past. I'm gone surmise that this is because the ST is bent, the angle increases the more you extend it and hence my finding, unlike a straight tube where the angle would change, but not as dramatically. I find the further back I go on the saddle/behind the BB, the more power you can put down in bigger gears as it engages the bigger muscles of the upper leg/glutes better - does put some hurt on the glutes and inner groin muscles though
    Maybe for 29ers the Seattube-Angle can/has to be slightly different from the 26/650B, due to the longer Chainstays - not sure?!?
    Runes and Spitfires have a virtual 74 Deg SA in the neutral Setting. It may change to 73,5 Deg or something the longer the Saddle is up, which will raise the effective Toptube-Length - but it still remains steep! From my experience I can say that I donīt want it any slacker anymore. Legmotion feels more like going upstairs, or on a Stepper in the Gym, which for me has alot more Power on the Pedals - more downward instead of downward/forward. Feels more natural for me and is more friendly for my Knees. It too helps on Climbing because there is more Power on the front and prevent the Frontwheel to lift up.

    You are on a XL-Prime, if Iīm not wrong, and you must be a tall Man?!? I suspect that a Setback-Post maybe was the only Chance to get the right Toptube/Cockpit-Length in the Past and to avoid needing overly long Stems ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    My Spitfire frame is due sometime this week but if this is a lightweight 29'er (judging from the Spitfire size tubing) I just might have to rethink it. Rear tire looks to be large radius like a 29'er and maybe it's just the angle but the rocker arm looks to be in a more vertical position and the tire looks much closer to the seat tube. Either shorter stays or reduced travel? Maybe no provision for a FD so it has to be a 1x10 or 1x11?
    I bet this is a lighter 29er, with the slimmer Spitfiresque-Tubing, 100-120 mm Travel, of course FD-Directmount, slightly steeper HA and slightly shorter Chainstays. Think of Rune/Prime = Aggro AM, Spitfire/Fresh Puppy called ... = Aggro XC ...

  47. #47
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    Lynx, I was just about to post the bike rumor link^^^^ in the 29er forum under a new thread titled: Want to see how to make Lynx's head explode.

    Then I checked the Banshee forum because I just knew you were already onto it.

  49. #49
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    I would love my prime to have a 1š slacker head angle in all settings, guess I could just slap a angle reducer headset. I like the higher BB and shorter chainstays on rocky trails of the steep setting, but it is steep enough to remove some confidence. 1š degree would make it like the Slack, and I reckon that the slack setting can be slacker with little trouble
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  50. #50
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    Go right ahead man, I'm really digging this new frame, waiting patiently for confirmed info on exactly what it is spec wise, angles etc and of course weight - still thinking this is going to be a killer, slack angle "XC" bike, made to run a 120mm fork, but we'll wait and see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Lynx, I was just about to post the bike rumor link^^^^ in the 29er forum under a new thread titled: Want to see how to make Lynx's head explode.

    Then I checked the Banshee forum because I just knew you were already onto it.
    You know, when I first got my Prime I noticed the lower BB in the slack setting immediately when I gave it a try and immediately went back to the steep setting. Now just over a year later and a few thousand miles on it, I run it in the slack setting and don't notice the lower BB at all. I think what happened initially was the Prime is such a beast in monster truck type way that you could just plow over nearly anything and having the higher BB helped this and made it even more fun, but fact is, that even in the slack setting the BB is still a good 1/2"> taller than any previous bike I've had, so I just guess I got back in touch with a little pedal stroke timing and am enjoying the more confident descending in the slack setting now.
    Quote Originally Posted by G_g View Post
    I would love my prime to have a 1š slacker head angle in all settings, guess I could just slap a angle reducer headset. I like the higher BB and shorter chainstays on rocky trails of the steep setting, but it is steep enough to remove some confidence. 1š degree would make it like the Slack, and I reckon that the slack setting can be slacker with little trouble
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
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