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Thread: KS Linkage feel

  1. #1
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    KS Linkage feel

    Just curious to see what everyones opinions are so far on the new KS linkage design. Coming off a Rune V1 I feel that the new linkage is certainly superior to the old. I think that it is very pedal friendly and loves to be aimed down. However I am still finding there is a bit of a loose feel to it in the back and I cannot figure it out for the life of me. I have checked torques and checked the wheel as well thinking it could be that but I can find no play anywhere until I ride it I can feel it ever so slightly in the chatter. Quite honestly it doesnt affect the performance or anything for that matter but I can still feel it. The fact that I cannot figure out where it is coming from is making me crazy. I just want to see if anyone out there has a similar experience?

    I am not bashing this linkage design or anything because I think this bike is absolutely amazing and will probably hold the "best bike I have ever ridden" title for quite some time.

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    I'd suggest checking your rear wheel spoke tension too.

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    I would check rear hub preload as well. If a little on the loose side, can make the rear end feel a little noodly. I have about a dozen good rides on the V2 Rune so far and quite pleased with it's performance, especially going up/down on techy trail terrain. It's so much more smoother and compliant than the V1, offering great traction in both directions with very little kickback if at all. Due to this, feel like I can charge the rougher trails harder with more fun and less fatigue, so can and want to ride even longer than before on my usual rides. At first, thought the V2 didn't climb quite as well as the bike I was on before (SB66 w/same build and weight), but really coming to appreciate how smooth the suspension is that I find myself wanting to riding even a bit harder.
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    Yeah I checked the hub as well. I am wondering if it could be a headset issue similar to what was mentioned in another thread posted today. I will have to check that out. I still think it feels more likely that it is coming from the rear triangle but we shall see.

    HOLLA!!!

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    What shock are you using? I'm super sensitive when it comes to most things and I've notice a similar feeling to what you're describing with my pre-production when I run the DHXA with PP off at high speed, other than that occasional feeling it feels as solid as a rock everywhere else with the shock with PP on or off.. It could be a number of things all adding up to give the feeling - specific tyre on the rear, tyre pressure, low shock pressure, slow rebound (my shock is stuck full slow, waiting to send it to be fixed). I've never bothered to try to isolate exactly what/where it comes from as I'm not really a super high speed guy, I prefer slow, chunky stuff, but I've got a new shock coming hopefully next week that'll maybe help eliminate the possibility of it being the crappy DHXA with serious mid-stroke wallow.


    Quote Originally Posted by bmxking45 View Post
    Yeah I checked the hub as well. I am wondering if it could be a headset issue similar to what was mentioned in another thread posted today. I will have to check that out. I still think it feels more likely that it is coming from the rear triangle but we shall see.

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    I have the Fox CTD. Unfortunately we just got killed with over 2ft of snow so I don't think I am gonna be able to take the bike out for some time now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    What shock are you using? I'm super sensitive when it comes to most things and I've notice a similar feeling to what you're describing with my pre-production when I run the DHXA with PP off at high speed, other than that occasional feeling it feels as solid as a rock everywhere else with the shock with PP on or off.. It could be a number of things all adding up to give the feeling - specific tyre on the rear, tyre pressure, low shock pressure, slow rebound (my shock is stuck full slow, waiting to send it to be fixed). I've never bothered to try to isolate exactly what/where it comes from as I'm not really a super high speed guy, I prefer slow, chunky stuff, but I've got a new shock coming hopefully next week that'll maybe help eliminate the possibility of it being the crappy DHXA with serious mid-stroke wallow.
    DHX-A ain't bad, i don't have mid stroke wallow at all, are you still running XS can on your proto frame?

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    I've still got the original DHXA that shipped with my Prime, unfortunately the damn rebound is stuck full slow, so I'm sure that's effecting the ride a lot, can't wait to get it back to Fox to be serviced if even to keep it as a backup. Luckily I found a 2010/11 X-Fusion 02 RLZ (OEM produced for Cdale for their Rize I believe), so hopefully getting the ability to adjust rebound will help and somehow think that it'll be easier to tune than the DHXA, which I never did really get to feel like I wanted it. This RLZ will hopefully work well enough to hold me over until I can get the DHXA serviced and/or get a X-Fusion Vector AIR.


    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    DHX-A ain't bad, i don't have mid stroke wallow at all, are you still running XS can on your proto frame?
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    I want to know how this bike feels/rides with the Elka. I ran the Elka on my Rune as my only shock and the thing was absolutely amazing. I must admit that I certainly like the weight savings of the Fox CTD and as of right now I am not totally convinced on spending the $180 to get the Elka rebuilt for the Rune V2 geometry. I am beginning to lean towards saving up for the new XX1 drivetrain instead using the money from my Elka sell-off towards that purchase.

  10. #10
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    KS Linkage feel

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I've still got the original DHXA that shipped with my Prime, unfortunately the damn rebound is stuck full slow, so I'm sure that's effecting the ride a lot, can't wait to get it back to Fox to be serviced if even to keep it as a backup. Luckily I found a 2010/11 X-Fusion 02 RLZ (OEM produced for Cdale for their Rize I believe), so hopefully getting the ability to adjust rebound will help and somehow think that it'll be easier to tune than the DHXA, which I never did really get to feel like I wanted it. This RLZ will hopefully work well enough to hold me over until I can get the DHXA serviced and/or get a X-Fusion Vector AIR.
    I'm derailing here a bit, but you might talk to Craig @ Avalanche and see what he charges for the DHX-A tunes he's doing now. Assuming you don't have any shipping issues, I'd put money into Craig making it a shock you want rather than having Fox bring it back to what it was. It's a back-of-my-mind option for mine, but probably won't since I'm happy with the Vector and don't have another use for it.
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  11. #11
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    evasive, thanks for the heads-up on the avy service!
    I've had an avalanche shock, definitely the best riding shock I've ever owned.

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    KS Linkage feel

    Sure. I have no experience with them, but have read lots of positive reports.

    Here's the link: http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.c...ster%20Kit.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I've still got the original DHXA that shipped with my Prime, unfortunately the damn rebound is stuck full slow, so I'm sure that's effecting the ride a lot, can't wait to get it back to Fox to be serviced if even to keep it as a backup. Luckily I found a 2010/11 X-Fusion 02 RLZ (OEM produced for Cdale for their Rize I believe), so hopefully getting the ability to adjust rebound will help and somehow think that it'll be easier to tune than the DHXA, which I never did really get to feel like I wanted it. This RLZ will hopefully work well enough to hold me over until I can get the DHXA serviced and/or get a X-Fusion Vector AIR.
    Assuming you have right size air can for frame (my proto DHX-A air can was just too small for my weight) and you can get full travel with right amount of sag it is repetetion of adjusting BV pressures and bottom out.

    Personally my adjust routine is: correct sag, go ride, no mid range support, add BV pressure, if bottoming out hard, turn in BO dial, go ride, if mid range support is there, done, if too harsh, lower BV pressure, if bottoming out, again turn in BO dial, go ride... etc.

    Also you cannot 'check' BV pressure, volumes are so low on that air can so when you attach pump into it, most of the air has gone back into pump, always set it into a value and write it down.

    I have extra hassle of riding in sub zero temps so i need to check the values when the shock is at freezing temps

  14. #14
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    Yeah Ditto Dude, didn't know they offered service for them, definitely would be worth looking into if Fox is going to charge for the fix, heck depending on the price might give it a go instead even if Fox honor the warranty fix. Hoping the 02 RLZ works though, as I don't do anything even remotely close to big air and shouldn't really need a piggyback shock, hoping that if anything all I need to do is add the HV sleeve to it.

    I e-mailed them with the suspension curve Keith had sent me, so waiting to hear back. Not a suspension expert in the least, so wonder what Keith would say on this, which of the mods offered would he recommend?
    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    evasive, thanks for the heads-up on the avy service!
    I've had an avalanche shock, definitely the best riding shock I've ever owned.
    Sakucee, never been able to get full travel out of either Fox product on my Prime, despite running the "correct' SAG.When I do run the "correct" SAG then they normally feel horrible andwollowy and yet still can't use all travel. Geared to ride I weigh about 180lbs, so should be right about "perfect" for the avg Joe stuff is designed for, but just doesn't seem so. I think the AVY service/tune is about the only thing that will fix the DHXA so it rides like I like.
    Last edited by LyNx; 02-12-2013 at 03:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Sakucee, never been able to get full travel out of either Fox product on my Prime, despite running the "correct' SAG.When I do run the "correct" SAG then they normally feel horrible and blow through travel and yet still can't use all travel. Geared to ride I weigh about 180lbs, so should be right about "perfect" for the avg Joe stuff is designed for, but just doesn't seem so. I think the AVY service/tune is about the only thing that will fix the DHXA so it rides like I like.
    Too small air can you need bigger one, there is your problem (i weigh 64kg, i was missing out 30mm of travel practically).

    Since you want to get full travel you run much lower pressures on the main air can i guess, your spring rate is too low at that point -> no support.

    Bigger can, correct sag, can adjust proper BV pressure, better mid range support.

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    Re: KS Linkage feel

    Quote Originally Posted by bmxking45 View Post
    I want to know how this bike feels/rides with the Elka. I ran the Elka on my Rune as my only shock and the thing was absolutely amazing. I must admit that I certainly like the weight savings of the Fox CTD and as of right now I am not totally convinced on spending the $180 to get the Elka rebuilt for the Rune V2 geometry. I am beginning to lean towards saving up for the new XX1 drivetrain instead using the money from my Elka sell-off towards that purchase.
    I ran my Elka on the V1 and now the V2.... It's even better on the V2.

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    KS Linkage feel

    If you haven't seen it posted in the Rune thread, Mike Levy's review on PB included a fair amount of coverage on the new linkage. I'm on the phone, so excuse the mobile URL:

    http://m.pinkbike.com/u/mikelevy/blo...0B-Tested.html
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  18. #18
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    Some good stuff on the Rune, KS link suspension and DB Air from PB, learned a lot about the DB Air from that article.

    Wonder if the 26er folks will ever thank us 29er riders for the KS Link? After all it was the Prime and it's challenge to get that amount of travel and a short rear end that pushed Keith to the design AFAIK.

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    If you haven't seen it posted in the Rune thread, Mike Levy's review on PB included a fair amount of coverage on the new linkage. I'm on the phone, so excuse the mobile URL:

    Banshee Rune 650B - Tested by mikelevy - Pinkbike
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    Ok I now have a bunch of rides on the bike and the chatter that I am feeling on the rooty/small rock stuff is beginning to get annoying. Is anyone esle feeling what I am feeling? I am running the bike with the 142 dropouts the Fox CTD Azonic outlaws and NOTHING is loose when I wiggle everything around. It kind of feels like the looseness that I got from the bushing issue on the V1. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.....I think I might have to take it over to my guys at the shop and let them have a spin on it so they can try to determine the issue.

    HOLLA!!!

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    If everything is tight around the frame and shock, then next place to look would be to check your derailleur, chain length, rear hub and headset.
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    ... plus Spoke-Tension, Crankset-Bearings and so on.
    I have never experienced any "loose" or "wiggeling" Feel on any Banshee-Frame. The V2 Spitty is plenty stiff, almost as stiff as my previous Wildcard.

  22. #22
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    I'll admit that at high speed with the DHXA I used to get a bit of a "loose" feeling, but that was probably due to the rebound being stuck "full slow" or just the shock itself, can't say I've experienced this since switching to the X-Fusion 02 RL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    If everything is tight around the frame and shock, then next place to look would be to check your derailleur, chain length, rear hub and headset.
    The headset was the next thing on my list but it def does not feel to be coming from that area. how would chain length play into the issue? or my derailler? Hub is def not loose either.

  24. #24
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    What fork are you using and how old is it? I had a similar feeling last year and worn fork bushings were the culprit.
    Taking it to a decent shop is the best idea, pretty hard to analyze something like this over the internet....

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    Can you describe the feeling any better or at least where it feels like it's coming from? I'm trying to understand what you're describing, but it's open to so much personal interpretation.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmxking45 View Post
    Ok I now have a bunch of rides on the bike and the chatter that I am feeling on the rooty/small rock stuff is beginning to get annoying. Is anyone esle feeling what I am feeling? I am running the bike with the 142 dropouts the Fox CTD Azonic outlaws and NOTHING is loose when I wiggle everything around. It kind of feels like the looseness that I got from the bushing issue on the V1. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.....I think I might have to take it over to my guys at the shop and let them have a spin on it so they can try to determine the issue.

    HOLLA!!!
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