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  1. #1801
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    Steep climbing issues.

    I understand the Rune favours the DH side of things over climbing and I certainly have a range of very good climbing frames out there, but I like the Rune. I am having serious trouble climbing on the Rune on short steep sections - particularly if there is a step up is proving to be very challenging just to stay on the bike. The same stuff I was riding on the Firebird, i cannot clear on the Rune. It's not technique, the nose of the saddle gets very personal with me

    I am a tall bastard, with a very long inseam for my height. I rune the dropper at the don't go past line.

    With a 65mm stem I find the reach perfect, I don't run spaces under the stem (well x1 3mm spacer).

    I find the bike to be most excellent from DH to riding on bike tracks with the Mrs, so I am not really interesting in another frame.

    It's a large frame, maybe an extra large will solve my issues, and in regards to reach a 50mm stem on an XL would still keep me where I want to be reach wise.

    The following photos will outline my problems.

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-rune-flat-seat-high.jpg

    Now at 10 degrees incline (maybe slightly more).
    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-rune-10degrees.jpg

    As soon as it gets steep my seat position gets very close to the rear axle and the front lifts, I either fall off the back or veer off the track.

    The relationship here is the STA vs the chainstay length. I like short chainstays, they give a fun playful ride. I like steep seat angles like the on the Rune, they make climbing easier - BUT the Rune has an effective seat angle as the seat tube is bent and does not directly join to the BB. So when the seat is raised to it's max position for someone with long legs and average torso, the seat has moved excessively rearward, resulting in compromised in the saddle climbing.

    Basically would a XL frame solve this issue? i can't see how it might as the angles are the same and the distance between the saddle and pedals is going to be identical.

    I can slide the saddle slightly forward, but this will compromise my reach, I could lower the fork and put the dropouts into the high position...

    Anything obvious that I am missing?

  2. #1802
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    You are not missing anything. Moreover - this is not an issue that is reserved to just the Rune. In my experience ( on about 10 bikes ) it is universal problem.

    The issue is, that frames are designed around an 'average' person, and the more you go off into one or another extreme of the scale, the more compromised the position is. For small people this is not much of an issue, because they go 'in' the bike, which gives them stability.

    The problem stems from the fact, that bigger frame sizes are merely scaled versions of the small frames pushed into production constraints. All angles kept the same.

    In reality however, for L and, more importantly XL frame the seat tube angle should get steepend, head tube length increased and head angle slackend ( yes, this means that rune should get ~64* HA in XL ). Moreover - top tube should get slightly longer from what it is now.

    If banshee made a run of 'Forward geometry' runes with +50mm to top tube I'd buy it instantly, because it would allow to work around those issues and would 'unlock' 35mm stem for my size ( XL frame ).

    Anyhow - to workaround ( apply some or all, at your leasiure ).

    - get 650b drops and/or wheels
    - set your current frame to 'slack' and at the same time push the seat about 5mm into the front
    - learn proper climbing technique

  3. #1803
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    Doesn't he want to go the other way? Ie not slack?? I would put it in the steeper setting and try 650b dropouts as suggested.
    Another thing to try is lowering you're fork somehow-internal Travel change if possible or maybe a lower travel fork with less axle to crown height.
    Are you running low rise or flat bars?
    These may also help

  4. #1804
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    Im 6' and ride a large as well with a 50mm stem, about an inch worth of spacers and low rise bars. I run it in the slack setting with a RS lyrik 170mm with an A2C of 565mm. I have no problem climbing technical stuff on the trail. I have to ask do you keep your dropper fully extended when powering up a technical feature? Droppers aren't just for descending. Drop it a bit when in the tech so your bike can pivot underneath you when out of the saddle powering up stuff and avoid getting corn holed.

    Put it this way, with a bike like the Rune you aren't going to find an absolutely perfect climbing set up. You have to adapt to the bike. Hell, even in the steep setting the Rune is slacker than most bikes in its class. And this is taking into account the somewhat steep STA.

    I had a Specialized Enduro SL with much the same geo as your Firebird. It climbed better than my Rune does. But the Rune flat out slays it on the downs. Ill take that trade off and adjust my climbing style accordingly.

  5. #1805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uphill=sad View Post
    ... I am a tall bastard, with a very long inseam for my height. I rune the dropper at the don't go past line.

    With a 65mm stem I find the reach perfect, I don't run spaces under the stem (well x1 3mm spacer).

    It's a large frame, maybe an extra large will solve my issues, and in regards to reach a 50mm stem on an XL would still keep me where I want to be reach wise.

    As soon as it gets steep my seat position gets very close to the rear axle and the front lifts, I either fall off the back or veer off the track.

    Basically would a XL frame solve this issue?
    - How tall are you?
    - Possibly wrong framesize and a XL could fix that because of a slightly roomier front, which adds more weight on the bars, to keep the front-wheel tracking?!?
    - Possibly the 10mm longer 650B-Dropouts could solve these too, because a slightly longer chainstay "shifts" your weight more forward between the wheels?!

    As uzurpator has mentioned: Every Bike, with a difference between actual and virtual Seattubeangle, adds Toptubelength towards the rear-axle. It depends on how much difference is between these two numbers. On Banshee itīs relatively moderate compared to many others. But ideally the larger the framesize the steeper a seatangle should get, simply to compensate the necessary saddle-height very tall riders require.
    Iīm not really sure if your position seated will change on a XL, but the longer toptube could shift your weight towards the frontwheel. Plus a more forward frontwheel tends to lift-off later on steep climbs.

  6. #1806
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    Thanks for the replies,

    Quote Originally Posted by uzurpator View Post
    snip'
    I am certainly not a bike designer, but I do understand biomechanics, it just seems logical that angles should change as the frames get larger. By climbing technique is pretty good, as I quite enjoy technical climbs that require a fair degree of skill and a smidgen of luck to clear. At first I was just thinking I was asking to much of the Rune, but then a shorter riding fellow got on and cleared everything and commenting on how well it climbed (he rides a nomad) without a warmup on the bike or knowing it's characteristics.

    Quote Originally Posted by supermikegb View Post
    snip'
    Yeah the bars are low rise with no spacers understem, this actually made a noticeable difference when I took away 25mm worth of spacers and got lower rise bars.

    Once I would out how to lower a 2013 170 Lyrik to 160, dropping another 10mm + steepening the STA should help also.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkslide18 View Post
    Snip'
    I certainly drop the post for some climbs as using some exaggerated body language really helps muscle the bike over the step ups. Sometime though on the looser surfaces I need to stay seated to get enough traction to maintain my momentum.

    I can ride the exact same features on the firebird or nomads... those longer stays, even on a bike with slacker STA make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    snip'
    I am 190cm / 6.3 bare foot, but I have quite a long inseam so I like a tall saddle but not too much reach. An XL is definitely on the cards, as it would allow me to push the seat well forward as uzurpator highlighted effectively steepening the STA. Just trying to workout the cost vs reward of upsizing the frame.

    The 27.5 dropouts is a great idea as the slightly longer stays will bring the fulcrum slightly forward and also running them in the steep position will help concurrently steepen the STA.

    Hopefully lowering the fork a little while raising the height of the rear axle keeps the BB height as a similar position to the mid position I am currently running.

  7. #1807
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    Hi guys!

    Anyone here knows the eye to eye shock size of a V2 Rune?

    Thanks!

  8. #1808
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    8.5x2.5

  9. #1809
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    thanks!

  10. #1810
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    Hiya All

    Im really set on buying a Rune so Iv been reading this mega thread for ages hoping to find out one vital dimension that has not been mentioned yet. (well not that iv managed to find in the 40 or so pages iv read!)

    Im 5'10" and today I rode a kona process 153 in medium,the reach and ETT felt right for me. Looking at the Rune Geo chart for the large frame if i used a 35mm stem the medium kona and large Rune would be similar. After riding the process I sat on a cube stereo 20" and the reach and ETT was ok but I couldn't put the seat down far enough that it would be out the way on some of the really techy Cumbrian riding that I do.

    Please could someone with a 650b large frame and a dropper post in the furthest down position (down in the frame and down on the drop) please measure the floor to top of seat height. Like stand over height but to the top of the seat. I will be using 160mm forks so if you could let me know what forks you have that would help as well.

    And it would be good to hear from other 5'10" inbetweener size people that ride a large..if any.

    Sorry thats its my first post as well, I know it can be quite frustrating when a newbie comes on and ask one question then nobs off. Il be sticking around for sure.

    Thanks in advance

    Joe

  11. #1811
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    I am 5'10 and run a large with 40mm stem, fit is spot on

    650b with 160mm forks my seat measures at 40.5 inches from the ground if in the frame fully with a 5 inch reverb. I run my seat at 42 inches from ground or 27.5 inches from ctr bb to rails of saddle so have 40mm of post showing for trail riding

    Rune at Banshee Rune in Warwickshire, United Kingdom - photo by diniwiti - Pinkbike

    Hope that helps

    Niall
    Last edited by diniwiti; 03-25-2014 at 01:13 AM.

  12. #1812
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    cool thanks mate.

    how do you find the bike rides with 650b wheels?

    it kinda put me off knowing the geometry hasnt been changed for the bigger wheel size as it has
    with a lot of other manufactures. But Iv heard it rides well so thats more important than geometry numbers.

    joe

  13. #1813
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    No issues with 650b as long as its in the slack setting to keep the bb as low as possible

  14. #1814
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    The bb height has kinda put me off now, i was hoping i could switch between the slack setting for d/h and the steeper angle for the tight trails but with a bb height of 15mm ish higher than a lot of other tail bikes with 66.5% its a little high to keep the centre of gravity down.

    What riding do you mainly do Niall?

    Joe

  15. #1815
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    wrong thread

  16. #1816
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    2014 Banshee Rune
    Love this thing!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-dsc_0148-001.jpg  

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-dsc_0153-001.jpg  

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-dsc_0160.jpg  

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-dsc_0156.jpg  


  17. #1817
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockheadrumble View Post

    What riding do you mainly do Niall?

    Joe
    Ride trail and will be racing enduro and dh all on the rune this year, i found 26 inch wheel and slack setting gave a lot of contact with pedals and the ground so was glad of the slight rise in bb height.

    Never take mine out of low setting no matter what trails i am riding

  18. #1818
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    Hi all...will it be a issue if i use 650b fork with 26 inch wheels? So that later on if i want to chage the wheels it will ve cheaper? I know that the geo will change slightly but will it effect a lot?

    Thanks

  19. #1819
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    Quote Originally Posted by izi1 View Post
    Hi all...will it be a issue if i use 650b fork with 26 inch wheels? So that later on if i want to chage the wheels it will ve cheaper? I know that the geo will change slightly but will it effect a lot?
    Thanks
    That will not make a big difference (slightly higher and slacker front end) and will work fine. There are several forks out there that are cross compatible anyway like the vengeance for example.
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  20. #1820
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    Thanks for the quick reply. Most LBS i my area are out of stock for a 26 inch pike....

  21. #1821
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    i was checking the rune details and i see that the rune use zero stack headset but my rune have a chris king inset 2 headset and i think is low stack not zero stack is this is a problem ?

  22. #1822
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    also do the the ks link have to be clean or lube or something i never get in to that i always wash my bike and dont touch the ks links

  23. #1823
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    The Zero stack is not a very fitting name really... they nearly all have sme stack height normally around 3-4mm below headtube. Your headset is fine.

    The KS linkage is very low maintenace, using fully sealed bearings, so no grease or oil should be required other than on the axles and threads if reassembling pivots. Focus on maintiain gtorques on bolts to the specifications and checking that bearing seals are still sitting properly, and you'll proably be fine. Obviously if you feel play or anything, then investigate and fix, it will most likely be a worn DU bushing.
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  24. #1824
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    Builttoride have you guys tried the x fusion vector air hlr shock on the rune? I have one on my dh bike an it is sweet.. very coil like.

    The KS link shouldn't really need a climb mode right? I've been running the fox float X in open/descend mode when climbing because i haven't really noticed a difference between modes on the shock, when climbing. That's why in thinking that the vector air would be a great shock..??

    I just put the wolft components 42t rear cog on,and i can climb better with more energy left over now.

  25. #1825
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    More photos guys!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  26. #1826
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    I'm considering a Banshee for a new frame and came across this thread.
    Great info, very usefull, I've found some fundamented opinion on this aperantly great frame.

    Usually I don't bother about people talking about what they don't know, but sometimes it is really annoying and, most of all, it gives bad info...

    I'm quoting an example of someone that should be able to give a fundamented opinion (because, apparently, has had a lot of bikes in the past), but unfortunatly doesn't have a clue of what he is talking about...


    Quote Originally Posted by mantra View Post
    Slow tech stuff...once you sit on the Enduro, it gets verry slack aswell due to its poor rear kinematics...
    really?! so the FSR system has poor kinematic and that is why it SAGS a lot when you seat on the bike? may it not be poor set up? suppose not...

    Indeed the stock shock on the 2010-2012 Spesh Enduros had too much volume, and a simple fix was to get the Fox volume reducer kit. It seemed to fix the "poor rear kinematics"


    Quote Originally Posted by mantra View Post
    the difference in the rearend length is not that much... I donīt know why the Enduro should handle this better,
    the chain stay length difference isn't really that important... but the Enduro is more agille on the tight stuff... ya, why is that?...

    Quote Originally Posted by mantra View Post
    My impression is, that the Rune runs verry long! Iīve hard times to lift the front wheel of the ground (50mm stem).
    It is more difficult to lift the front wheel on the Rune, because of sizing? really? suppose that, again, chainstay length has nothing to do with it...

    Yes, freedom of speach is hilarious...

  27. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik8yu View Post
    More photos guys!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Here you are ...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-image.jpg  

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-image.jpg  

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-image.jpg  


  28. #1828
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    Quote Originally Posted by krj View Post
    Here you are ...
    bella!!

  29. #1829
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik8yu View Post
    More photos guys!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    A couple of additional pics

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-rune-1-w.jpg  

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-rune-4-w.jpg  


  30. #1830
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    Today had a chance to test ride a Rune. Great bike!

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-dsc_0013.jpg

    I'm planning to replace my current ride, a Specialized 2010 Enduro, heavily customized. I really like how the Enduro is now, but its time for a change. I would like to try a "linkage" bike: Santa Curz, Intense, Giant, Mondraker, etc. In this group, the Rune is my favorite.

    So, what were my first impressions, after the my usual Saturday morning 2 hour loop?
    Frame size L is spot on (I'm 1,80m, roughly 5'11). My Enduro also is size L, and although the spesh is 10mm longer in the top tube, the Rune is roomy enough (stem on both is 50mm).
    Rear suspension is very good. Less pedal bob, very active, very absorbing. Little obstacles I usually pop on the Spesh, was not able to with the Rune, the suspension simply erase it. Kind of "see it but don't feel it" effect...
    Technical climbing is better. Although the Rune was on the slacker setting, maintaining grip and direction was easier than on the spesh. I suspect those extra mm in the chain stay... also, my seat post is a CommandPost with set back, the one on the Rune was a Reverb (no setback). Guess that helped too.
    The bike accelerates and tracks very well. But there, I guess that not only frame stiffness take credit. The wheels are also responsible (Enve carbon rims, light and very stiff).
    The Pike was a little disappointing to be honest. My Lyrik is far more supple (RC2DH internals). But the Pike has few km, so maybe the seals are still to tight...

    All in all great bike and top of the list when time to change bike arrives!

  31. #1831
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-image.jpg

    Pic I snapped Thursday night. Stuff was just starting to dry enough to ride around here.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb

  32. #1832
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    @krj....r u using pike dual position fork? How is it? Is it really necessary to have dual position travel on the bike. How does it help during climbing and is any significant difference using the solo air?

    Thanks

  33. #1833
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    Anyone seen Santa Cruz's "latest" Banshee Rune, with "updated" geometry yet?




  34. #1834
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by juanbeegas View Post
    Anyone seen Santa Cruz's "latest" Banshee Rune, with "updated" geometry yet?





    For real??


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  35. #1835
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    Quote Originally Posted by juanbeegas View Post
    Anyone seen Santa Cruz's "latest" Banshee Rune, with "updated" geometry yet?
    Heheee, yes - and Giant got the "Spitfire-Update" with their Trance SX ...

    Anyway, good to see that Banshees "damn, itīs not 650B-spezific" Geometry found some serious attention!

  36. #1836
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    Save a grand... buy a Banshee!
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  37. #1837
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Save a grand... buy a Banshee!
    Thumbs up !!!

  38. #1838
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Save a grand... buy a Banshee!
    Done already - and would do it again anytime, because nothing comes close to a Spitfire ...

  39. #1839
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    copy cat the Banshee"s jajajaja what a shame woooo wooo wooo Banshee 4 life!

  40. #1840
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    Not sure about the "copy-cat-thing", but itīs pretty obvious that small companies like Banshee often have some innovative stuff that has "influence" on major brands.
    The KS-Link Banshees are really great - and I think this new Nomad will be great too! Plus it has to be different than the Bronson ...

  41. #1841
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    cause they can't have the KS-link jajaja

  42. #1842
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    I mentioned this in another thread, but I expect to see more AM frames with this style of geometry as the influence of pro-level enduro racing really takes hold. As it is, what people refer to as 'dialed' geometry for an all-mountain frame is kind of all over the map.

    In the past I've never really seen race R&D as super relevant to me, outside of general tech trickle-down. I don't need or want a bike that handles like a WC-level XC or DH bike. Same holds for skis - no interest in racing skis or park skis. But a bike that excels at top flight enduro racing is actually pretty relevant to what I want, despite my own limitations as a rider.

  43. #1843
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    Evasive, yep, some good points here! In case of Banshee, if I remember right, it was not pro-level-enduro-racing, but the fact that many riders later on ran -1,5 or -2 deg anglesets on their V1 Runes. Banshee just adopted this +/- 65 deg headtubeangle into the V2 geometry. Two, three or four years ago enduro-racing was not this big as it is now ...

  44. #1844
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    But beyond HTA, there's the whole package (which I know I've seen you mention before): slack HTA. Steep STA. Long reach and front center, but relatively compact cockpit.

    More AM frames are moving that way, and the Nomad is the latest example. But on the other hand, you have the Mach 6, which also gets rave reviews, and comments on "dialed" geometry.

  45. #1845
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    With the release of that Nomad I'm not sure how much longer I can resist jumping ship to a carbon option.

    KEITH, if you guys are working on any carbon concepts I highly suggest "leaking" something about it soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironxcross View Post
    With the release of that Nomad I'm not sure how much longer I can resist jumping ship to a carbon option.

    KEITH, if you guys are working on any carbon concepts I highly suggest "leaking" something about it soon.
    Agreed! I'm definitely saving for a carbon frame.. would love for it to be a banshee..

  47. #1847
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    I thought about it yesterday, and I think a carbon rear would do the trick.

  48. #1848
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    Until we can find a way to source high quality carbon manufacturing (not the cheap stuff many brands use) that will cost you guys a maximum of $/g for weight saving we will not go carbon. But we are (and have been for some time) hunting for options.

    We just don't want to rip off our customers, as I know that the overall performance of our current frames will still match anything out there.
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  49. #1849
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    Go builttoride

  50. #1850
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    Quote Originally Posted by izi1 View Post
    @krj....r u using pike dual position fork? How is it? Is it really necessary to have dual position travel on the bike. How does it help during climbing and is any significant difference using the solo air?

    Thanks
    Yes it is. It's great. Unfortunately I'm not able to compare with the solo air. No regret to go with the dp because using the Rune at 65° it helps on tough climbs and here near the alps is the business as usual.
    Off course I've run a couple of test doing it with @160 and the r managable but the dp helps and 65° dowhillig makes me happy.

    If i have to find a defect , the only missing dp functionality is the progression setup up because u can't install any spacers.

    Out of this it rocks

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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    I thought about it yesterday, and I think a carbon rear would do the trick.
    Agree. If that's an upgrade option for rune v2 that's even better


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  52. #1852
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    Quote Originally Posted by krj View Post
    Yes it is. It's great. Unfortunately I'm not able to compare with the solo air. No regret to go with the dp because using the Rune at 65° it helps on tough climbs and here near the alps is the business as usual.
    Off course I've run a couple of test doing it with @160 and the r managable but the dp helps and 65° dowhillig makes me happy.

    If i have to find a defect , the only missing dp functionality is the progression setup up because u can't install any spacers.

    Out of this it rocks
    Thanks for the reply dude... just curious why not many ppl opt for this fork. How long have been using it..hows the durabality? Any issues?

  53. #1853
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    But beyond HTA, there's the whole package (which I know I've seen you mention before): slack HTA. Steep STA. Long reach and front center, but relatively compact cockpit.

    More AM frames are moving that way, and the Nomad is the latest example. But on the other hand, you have the Mach 6, which also gets rave reviews, and comments on "dialed" geometry.
    To be honest: I donīt believe that the "modern" forward-geometry is better (for the intended use) than the "traditional". Both have their pros and cons. The same for all the different suspension-designs. I have spend many many years on mountainbikes with slacker SAs and shorter Reaches and had tons of amazing time - I guess like the most of us. So yes, if riders like the more "traditional geometry" (shorter Reach/slacker SA) of a Mach 6 than thatīs all that counts. For sure itīs dialed!!!
    For me sizing and fitting is the most important part when choosing a bike and I simply feel more comfortable on the short rear/long front-geometries. Iīm not to say itīs "better" - itīs just different and suits me better, once you get adopted to the feel, handling and weight-balance on and over the bike.

  54. #1854
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    New question here.

    Having the Monarch Plus debonair with black stanction out I 'm lead to have one to put on my Rune !

    Do u think a valuable shift from the FOX ctd ?

    If this is the case with tuning is best fitting the Rune geometry ( @builttoride ) ?

  55. #1855
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Until we can find a way to source high quality carbon manufacturing (not the cheap stuff many brands use) that will cost you guys a maximum of $/g for weight saving we will not go carbon. But we are (and have been for some time) hunting for options.

    We just don't want to rip off our customers, as I know that the overall performance of our current frames will still match anything out there.
    Keith, whatīs the big advantage of carbon from your point of view? Generally stiffer, lighter and more durable than aluminum? Or does this depend on construction?

    As far as I know carbon can not get recycled - somehow a turn-off, next to the significantly higher cost ... and I canīt imagine prizing for carbon is getting cheaper in the future ...

  56. #1856
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    Carbon is stronger and potentially stiffer for the weight (depends on design, materials and layup), and can be tuned to have nice damping properties. It also gets rid of welding and can look sexy.

    Downsides are cost, bad to the environment, suseptable to impact damage (damage might not be visible, but this makes it more dangerous as you can't tell when it's about to fail), if not laid up exactly as designed it will not have desired properties (for example if a layup is out by just 3 degrees it can reduce strength by up to 10%).

    Tooling is also very expensive, so for us we would either have to massively increase frame sale numbers (we are only a small company that sells a small fraction of what brands like santacruz do, not to mention the big guys), or put the frame price up to stay in business. Most of the big companies actually do carbon because they make more profit per frame due to quantities they sell.

    Of course it all depends on quality of design materials and manufacture. As it stands currently with all things considered I just don't feel we can offer customers a better product for the money than we currently do, and don't believe many competitors offer value either as I feel all carbon frames are over priced.
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  57. #1857
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    Hello

    I have a medium runev2 and have an issue getting the reverb stealth all the way down in the seat tube, I think is because of the connectormijig on the 2014 model. has anyone solved this problem or even had it before?

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    how many people here actually use the highest and shortest flip chip setting?

    @builttoride : my wish for the next generation Rune would be flip chip settings that allow for a deeper bottom bracket in the 650b setting, and ideally also for a combination of a short (428-432mm with 650b dropouts, 420-425 with 26) dropouts AND a bottom bracket height of 340- max 355 mm for both wheel sizes...
    the way it's now, the bottom bracket gets to be very high with 650b, or the rear end quite long. I would be quite happy with not being able to use all settings in both wheel sizes, but rather have a good combo of bb height and chainstay length!

  59. #1859
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    i have the reverb stealth on my rune and i did not have any problem i buy the 380 mm the 420mm is to high for me i also have a medium rune and i am 5,8

  60. #1860
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    Re: Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Carbon is stronger and potentially stiffer for the weight (depends on design, materials and layup), and can be tuned to have nice damping properties. It also gets rid of welding and can look sexy.

    Downsides are cost, bad to the environment, suseptable to impact damage (damage might not be visible, but this makes it more dangerous as you can't tell when it's about to fail), if not laid up exactly as designed it will not have desired properties (for example if a layup is out by just 3 degrees it can reduce strength by up to 10%).

    Tooling is also very expensive, so for us we would either have to massively increase frame sale numbers (we are only a small company that sells a small fraction of what brands like santacruz do, not to mention the big guys), or put the frame price up to stay in business. Most of the big companies actually do carbon because they make more profit per frame due to quantities they sell.

    Of course it all depends on quality of design materials and manufacture. As it stands currently with all things considered I just don't feel we can offer customers a better product for the money than we currently do, and don't believe many competitors offer value either as I feel all carbon frames are over priced.
    @builttoride : that's something i really appreciate about you, Keith, your non-bs way of talking straight and the support you provide here!

  61. #1861
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    I thinks it's 405mm for the 125mm drop stealth which is the shortest they do. the connector must add another 40mm to the length of it.

  62. #1862
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    Length 355mm, 380mm, 420mm, 430mm, Hose length: 2000mm

  63. #1863
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    thats annoyed me more now Mafia as i thought it was the smallest

  64. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilBR View Post
    thats annoyed me more now Mafia as i thought it was the smallest
    the connectormijig is like 2 or 3 inches loool of course if you dont want to pinch the hose and i really dont recommended and is good to get the stealth reverb all the way down through the seat tube as far as possible

  65. #1865
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    i'm gonna remove the connectormijig.

  66. #1866
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    Quote Originally Posted by cockymonster View Post
    how many people here actually use the highest and shortest flip chip setting?

    @builttoride : my wish for the next generation Rune would be flip chip settings that allow for a deeper bottom bracket in the 650b setting, and ideally also for a combination of a short (428-432mm with 650b dropouts, 420-425 with 26) dropouts AND a bottom bracket height of 340- max 355 mm for both wheel sizes...
    the way it's now, the bottom bracket gets to be very high with 650b, or the rear end quite long. I would be quite happy with not being able to use all settings in both wheel sizes, but rather have a good combo of bb height and chainstay length!
    I was going to try it but I couldnt fit my tire in with the 26 dropouts and a 26x2.4 TK. Its a tight fit in the middle section. I almost put my 650b dropouts on to try it but I like the short back end.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb

  67. #1867
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    Waiting on the parts for my main 2014 bike...

    Hope I am not forgetting anything, but below is a list of the parts I am aiming for. Limited availability is making some of it nearly impossible to get a hold of, but most of it is already on order.

    Frame: 2014 Banshee Rune V2 (Large)
    Fork: 2012 Fox 36 Float RLC 160mm
    Headset: Ritchey WCS Carbon
    Rear Derailleur: Shimano XTR M986 or Saint M820 (still deciding)
    Brakes: Shimano XT M785 (will go Saint if I want more power)
    Shifters: Shimano XTR M980 I-Spec
    Cranks: RaceFace Next SL 170mm
    Bottom Bracket: RaceFace
    Pedals: RaceFace Atlas
    Wheels: 2014 Industry Nine Torch Enduro (27.5)
    Cassette: 11-36 Shimano XT (maybe XTR)
    Chain: 10 Speed KMC SL
    Seatpost: KS Lev Integra
    Stem: RaceFace Atlas 35 (50mm)
    Handlebars: RaceFace Next 35 (760mm)
    Tires: Schwalbe Hans Dampf Trailstar (maybe Maxxis High Roller 2)

    Feel free to give me any suggestions or advice!

    See Photos here: 2014-Banshee-Rune-V2 Photo Album - Pinkbike

  68. #1868
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    Wow impressive build
    Have you weight the wheels? Do you reckon it's a good quality stuff?
    I have been waiting for these for more than a month and still nothing. ..I'd like to know if they are worthy the money and time. ..

  69. #1869
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    @builttoride
    "(damage might not be visible, but this makes it more dangerous as you can't tell when it's about to fail)"

    That's exactly why I couldn't ride a carbon bike without any worries over a couple of years. My Rune already has a 10x5mm and ~3-4mm deep dent in the bottom bracket shell caused by a fist-sized stone that doesn't wory me at all! On an aluminium frame you can see the damage and can keep an eye on how or even if it changes over time. I am sceptic that I could enjoy riding down a loose rocky singletrack with a carbon frame at high speed. I would immediately stop after every "bang!!" to check my bike.

  70. #1870
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    Quote Originally Posted by grazertourer View Post
    @builttoride
    "(damage might not be visible, but this makes it more dangerous as you can't tell when it's about to fail)"

    That's exactly why I couldn't ride a carbon bike without any worries over a couple of years. My Rune already has a 10x5mm and ~3-4mm deep dent in the bottom bracket shell caused by a fist-sized stone that doesn't wory me at all! On an aluminium frame you can see the damage and can keep an eye on how or even if it changes over time. I am sceptic that I could enjoy riding down a loose rocky singletrack with a carbon frame at high speed. I would immediately stop after every "bang!!" to check my bike.
    Likewise... carbon is great if never crashed or never having big rock strikes etc. But banshee riders generally ride harder than most mountain bikers, and we know that and I always consider that when designing frames.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  71. #1871
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Likewise... carbon is great if never crashed or never having big rock strikes etc. But banshee riders generally ride harder than most mountain bikers, and we know that and I always consider that when designing frames.
    Hi @Keith,
    do you know any angleset with cups compatible to banshee headset so I don't have to bother changing these?

    what do you reckon about dropping the bb with an offset bushing?

    thanks

  72. #1872
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    Quote Originally Posted by cicot View Post
    Hi @Keith,
    do you know any angleset with cups compatible to banshee headset so I don't have to bother changing these?

    what do you reckon about dropping the bb with an offset bushing?

    thanks
    I believe that all angle sets will require a new headset, but will happily be proven wrong on that.

    I don't recommend offset bushings as you may end up having frame collisions between the rear triangle and the seat tube and this will void warranty.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  73. #1873
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    Hi @ builttoride... sorry to ask this question again... as i am building my rune...previously i asked about using 650 fork with 26" tires and u said its ok...but what about using a 650b dropout with a 26" tires... any noticable difference in geo and handling? What would u recommend? Better stick with 26" setup with 26" tires or 650b" setup with 26" tires (in case i want to go 650b later on).?

    Thanks

  74. #1874
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    Quote Originally Posted by izi1 View Post
    Hi @ builttoride... sorry to ask this question again... as i am building my rune...previously i asked about using 650 fork with 26" tires and u said its ok...but what about using a 650b dropout with a 26" tires... any noticable difference in geo and handling? What would u recommend? Better stick with 26" setup with 26" tires or 650b" setup with 26" tires (in case i want to go 650b later on).?

    Thanks
    It depends how long you'll be running the 26" wheels for, and your personal preferances. the only geo change that the dropouts make are that the 650b dropouts make the chainstay longer, some like this, some don't. There is no issue with running 26" wheel in 650b dropouts tho, it will work fine.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  75. #1875
    krj
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    Quote Originally Posted by izi1 View Post
    Hi @ builttoride... sorry to ask this question again... as i am building my rune...previously i asked about using 650 fork with 26" tires and u said its ok...but what about using a 650b dropout with a 26" tires... any noticable difference in geo and handling? What would u recommend? Better stick with 26" setup with 26" tires or 650b" setup with 26" tires (in case i want to go 650b later on).?

    Thanks

    On the otther way round you can RUN , fruithfully, 26 drop out with 27.5 wheels using Tiresia like hd (2.25, 57 ettro, my set up) or hr ii ( 2.30, 58, i bave bene Told).

    You'll get big wheels and compact bikes tear RUN_Everywhere !

  76. #1876
    krj
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    Quote Originally Posted by izi1 View Post
    Thanks for the reply dude... just curious why not many ppl opt for this fork. How long have been using it..hows the durabality? Any issues?
    No issue so far. I' m using it since last november.

    No idea about durability but i' e to put my 2 cents i'll bet on same one sa solo air.

    It works great and remove 65 drawback when climb tough trails.

    What do u mean with ppl opt ?

    Ps: @ll why am i able to see only 71 pages of this thread when i'm logged on ?

  77. #1877
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    Just threw the wheels on a scale and we are looking at 790g for the front and 940g for the rear. 1730g (including the valves and fully taped, ready for tubeless)

    I reckon these wheels are some of the best on the market for the money, I still have yet to ride them but from what I can see the build quality is excellent. I have only heard great things about the latest generation "Torch" wheels (with the exception of a couple tolerance issues in very early production wheels that were sorted out almost immediately).

    These wheels are incledibly light for what they are intended for. They are wider and lighter than a comparable rim (Stan's Flow EX) and with the unique spokes people claim these wheels are just as stiff, if not almost as stiff as Carbon wheels with standard J-bend spokes.

    I contacted Industry Nine to discuss whether the Enduro or the Gravity wheels would be better suited for my style of riding. They recommended the Enduro wheels and assured me that they have riders on their team (Shaw brothers) that use the Enduro wheels for World Cup Downhill.

    So in conclusion...

    These wheels are,

    -Very Light
    -Very Stiff
    -Quite Wide for AM wheels
    -120 Points of Engagement
    -Great Build Quality
    -Can supposedly put up to a fair share of DH abuse

    They are about half the price of comparable Carbon Wheels with a very small weight penalty. Is it worth double the money to save 70g?

  78. #1878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanadianrider5 View Post
    Just threw the wheels on a scale and we are looking at 790g for the front and 940g for the rear. 1730g (including the valves and fully taped, ready for tubeless)

    I reckon these wheels are some of the best on the market for the money, I still have yet to ride them but from what I can see the build quality is excellent. I have only heard great things about the latest generation "Torch" wheels (with the exception of a couple tolerance issues in very early production wheels that were sorted out almost immediately).

    These wheels are incledibly light for what they are intended for. They are wider and lighter than a comparable rim (Stan's Flow EX) and with the unique spokes people claim these wheels are just as stiff, if not almost as stiff as Carbon wheels with standard J-bend spokes.

    I contacted Industry Nine to discuss whether the Enduro or the Gravity wheels would be better suited for my style of riding. They recommended the Enduro wheels and assured me that they have riders on their team (Shaw brothers) that use the Enduro wheels for World Cup Downhill.

    So in conclusion...

    These wheels are,

    -Very Light
    -Very Stiff
    -Quite Wide for AM wheels
    -120 Points of Engagement
    -Great Build Quality
    -Can supposedly put up to a fair share of DH abuse

    They are about half the price of comparable Carbon Wheels with a very small weight penalty. Is it worth double the money to save 70g?
    Thanks for your reply. Ill swallow my impatience and enroll in some zen course for the next 3 weeks..almost 6 months without a bike/riding I'm getting nervous.

  79. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by krj View Post
    No issue so far. I' m using it since last november.

    No idea about durability but i' e to put my 2 cents i'll bet on same one sa solo air.

    It works great and remove 65 drawback when climb tough trails.

    What do u mean with ppl opt ?

    Ps: @ll why am i able to see only 71 pages of this thread when i'm logged on ?
    Most ppl that i know will choose solo air over the dual position and i would say all of the LBS here currently is out of stock on the solo air...so just wondering why ppl choose the solo air over the dual position

    Thanks @krj and @builttoride for the reply on the drop out. I think I need to really decide what wheels i want to run with and follow that settings.. Cheers
    Last edited by izi1; 04-03-2014 at 06:55 PM.

  80. #1880
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    FWIW my I9 classic Torch hubs, DT swiss spoke's and nip's and Blunt35's weigh about 1850g with valves and strip's according to the weights supplied by the builder. I wasnt trying to stay light just get a decent wheelset with a wider rim that wasnt going to fold and didnt weigh a ton.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kanadianrider5 View Post
    Just threw the wheels on a scale and we are looking at 790g for the front and 940g for the rear. 1730g (including the valves and fully taped, ready for tubeless)

    I reckon these wheels are some of the best on the market for the money, I still have yet to ride them but from what I can see the build quality is excellent. I have only heard great things about the latest generation "Torch" wheels (with the exception of a couple tolerance issues in very early production wheels that were sorted out almost immediately).

    These wheels are incledibly light for what they are intended for. They are wider and lighter than a comparable rim (Stan's Flow EX) and with the unique spokes people claim these wheels are just as stiff, if not almost as stiff as Carbon wheels with standard J-bend spokes.

    I contacted Industry Nine to discuss whether the Enduro or the Gravity wheels would be better suited for my style of riding. They recommended the Enduro wheels and assured me that they have riders on their team (Shaw brothers) that use the Enduro wheels for World Cup Downhill.

    So in conclusion...

    These wheels are,

    -Very Light
    -Very Stiff
    -Quite Wide for AM wheels
    -120 Points of Engagement
    -Great Build Quality
    -Can supposedly put up to a fair share of DH abuse

    They are about half the price of comparable Carbon Wheels with a very small weight penalty. Is it worth double the money to save 70g?
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb

  81. #1881
    krj
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by izi1 View Post
    Most ppl that i know will choose solo air over the dual position and i would say all of the LBS here currently is out of stock on the solo air...so just wondering why ppl choose the solo air over the dual position

    Thanks @krj and @builttoride for the reply on the drop out. I think I need to really decide what wheels i want to run with and follow that settings.. Cheers
    DP cost more, weights more and can have more trouble ( one stuf more than sa).

    So i guess all the ppl thinks 'do more with less'

    My 2 cents


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    And the whole white crown and lowers with black uppers.
    I plan to get a Solo Air and see how they go then perhaps drop a DP spring in, like what I did with my Revelations.

  83. #1883
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AssPav View Post
    And the whole white crown and lowers with black uppers.
    I plan to get a Solo Air and see how they go then perhaps drop a DP spring in, like what I did with my Revelations.
    U r right but this is a difference for 'solo poser'. Lol

    Btw, pay attention to the shift u r wondering because i have been told that the crown is different between the Two and u can 't achive your goal.

    Btw 2, today i rode 3 hours up hill and the DP has been a plus.

    My 2 cents.




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  84. #1884
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    Quote Originally Posted by krj View Post
    Btw, pay attention to the shift u r wondering because i have been told that the crown is different between the Two and u can 't achive your goal.
    Further Googling shows you're right
    I really benefit from the DP in my Revelations but really don't like the white.
    I'll have to run my fork at full travel to see if I can get used to it.

    #firstworldproblems

  85. #1885
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Hi Keith , what is the recommended torque for fastening the dropouts to the frame , I found that mine have had be tightened up almost every ride, would you recommend using loctite on these , thanks , Dale

  86. #1886
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzdale View Post
    Hi Keith , what is the recommended torque for fastening the dropouts to the frame , I found that mine have had be tightened up almost every ride, would you recommend using loctite on these , thanks , Dale
    I recommend 12Nm for the dropout bolts. The bolts when new come with loctitie on them, but this can flake off if the bolt is removed. So yeah, a Drop of loctite should certainly prevent the bolts coming loose if tightened to torque.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  87. #1887
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Thanks for the reply Keith, as always brilliant service.


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    Neon Green paint.

    Anyone else got a 2014 in green, if so how's the paint holding up?

    My previous bike was powder coated and the one before that was anodised and the finish lasted very well.
    I toyed with going for the black, but eventually went green as it looks feckin ace.
    However, it's suffered quite a few chips in the few months I've had it, including some pretty big ones on the down tube and BB shell.
    Just wondered if I've been unlucky or not. The frame is extensively taped so most of it is fine, but I dread to think how little paint will be left on the underside in a couple of years! I'll stick some pics on later.

  89. #1889
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    Re: Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-uploadfromtaptalk1396998104767.jpg

    I'm all for battle scars, but it's very flakey!

  90. #1890
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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Hi to all! I'm new and this is my new bike. Greeting from italy :-)

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    I love my RUNE

    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-banshee-trail.jpg is so versatile!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antshee View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm all for battle scars, but it's very flakey!
    some of them looks made by hits looking on at your crank arm looool

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    Re: Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread

    Cranks weren't new when they went on. The chips are from rocks, but I'm used to powder coat or anodising which wouldn't have flaked off. Not to worry, the bike is still awesome!

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    Today I removed all the bearings from my Rune, mostly because I decided to void my warranty.

    To my surprise, they are not full-complement bearings, which is odd. Anyhow - anyone knows the standard model of those bearings? They seem to be 6001 2RS for the lower pivots and 619 2RS for the upper ones, but I'd like to confirm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antshee View Post
    Cranks weren't new when they went on. The chips are from rocks, but I'm used to powder coat or anodising which wouldn't have flaked off. Not to worry, the bike is still awesome!
    i buy the invisiframe but i always forgot to put them loool i dont have much time so i prefer to ride on my free time

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I recommend 12Nm for the dropout bolts. The bolts when new come with loctitie on them, but this can flake off if the bolt is removed. So yeah, a Drop of loctite should certainly prevent the bolts coming loose if tightened to torque.
    And what torque you recommend for shox bolt?

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    The frame doesn't come with instructions as it doesn't really need much (I'll work on making more info clear when new website goes live). You can torque the shock bolts to 15Nm back, and 12Nm front. The dropout bolts can be torqued to 12Nm. this are Keith words and what he told me when i ask about rear shock torque

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAFIA View Post
    The frame doesn't come with instructions as it doesn't really need much (I'll work on making more info clear when new website goes live). You can torque the shock bolts to 15Nm back, and 12Nm front. The dropout bolts can be torqued to 12Nm. this are Keith words and what he told me when i ask about rear shock torque
    Thank you ;-)

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    Banshee Rune V2 Build Thread-image.jpg testing the trail i am building

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    Quote Originally Posted by cockymonster View Post
    how many people here actually use the highest and shortest flip chip setting?
    I do, I've tried all positions multiple times and the highest setting is my favorite.

    I tend to climb a lot and ride XC a fair bit on the rune and notice it's a little less sluggish in this setting, also the SA a little steeper which I prefer for climbing and running 180mm cranks - the small increase in BB actually results in less pedal strikes.

    I also notice that it's not near as good for aggressive DH, so I swap it over if thats what I'll be riding.

    Another interesting question is how often do people change the dropout position?

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