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Thread: 2013 Spitfire

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Here's the build list from the red bike. Do some digging and you can figure out some weights. Frame is around 7.5lbs but by a scale I don't know.

    The weight is great, so are the Parts. Here´s an Overview the owner gave me:

    Rear Derailleur, Triggers, Brakes, Chain and Cassette: Shimano XTR
    Front Derailleur: Shimano XT
    Fork Fox 32 Float RLC
    Wheelset: DT 240 mit XM450TL Felgen und Messerspeichen
    Handlebars: Syntace Vector Carbon 740mm
    Stem: Syntace F109 60mm
    Headset: Pivot
    Handles: Pivot
    Seatpost: P6 carbon hiflex
    Saddle: Selle Italia SLR
    Tires: Kenda Nevegal
    Tubes: Kenda

    The owner of the red Spitfire stated around 3,4 kg Frameweight with Shock, Dropouts and Seatclamp.
    Isn't the owner of the red bike a banshee dealer/distributer. Take it for what its worth.

  2. #352
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    Get the facts correct......

    Wow, some awesome non fact checking going on here

    The old Spitfire weight of 5,86lb's is without the shock.

    In this thread a 2010 (large) painted spitfire was measured as 7lbs 2oz including shock and hardware and 7oz in ano with shock. Spitfire Frame Weight.

    Dont forget the new frame has
    > 20mm more travel
    > Bearings (as opposed to plastic bushings)
    > 142mm x 12mm axle (as opposed to QR) - just the axle probably adds 100grams

    Finally, the clear coated raw frames are approx 150-200 grams heavier than the ano version and 50 grams heavier than the painted version (raw is the heaviest).

    The new spitfire in raw with bearing hardware, shock, axle kit at 8lbs seems about right.

  3. #353
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    Thanks cave dweller for being reasonable.

    People who are *****ing about weight:

    - Compare apples to apples. You'll see it's a little heavier but not nearly as much as you're thinking. I bet it's less than one pound heavier for the frame itself, which is TOTALLY reasonable given the bearings and extra travel.

    - Stop making numbers the top priority if you plan to actually ride your bike. A slightly heavier, but stiffer and better built bike will be FASTER in most situations, last longer, be safer, etc etc. I agree that Banshee probably put a little more focus on durability over weight to save face and get the company image back on track, but if you want to drop a few hundred grams do it in your wheelset or something.

  4. #354
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    @ LostBoyScout: There you go

    Well, I don´t have much Interest in Frameweigth or Weigth at all and I wanted to avoid spending extra Cash for a damn Scale, but I think it´s time to buy one and give some proper numbers

  5. #355
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    Perhaps some could care less but IMO it's not unreasonable at all to want to know the weight of a newly re-designed frame. Go into any forum and it's one of the first things people question. I'm not complaining, just interested.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  6. #356
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    @ skidad.
    I know you are not complaining at all!
    The curious thing is that most People in Forums ask for Weight first, instead of asking how it rides ... which should be way more important ...
    Well, I´m doing my best to get you some Numbers.

    Many Greetings
    NoStyle

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Perhaps some could care less but IMO it's not unreasonable at all to want to know the weight of a newly re-designed frame. Go into any forum and it's one of the first things people question. I'm not complaining, just interested.
    I agree that Banshee could have and should have got the approx weight out ASAP (a decent approximation could be made from the solid model but it's difficult to estimate the weight of the welds) and I agree weight is a factor.

    But because it's a black and white number as opposed to the subjective ride quality, folks online can tend to care far too much about weight. Which mtbr's are terrible for (not you specifically)

    I just looked up the Transition Bandit, which I consider to be a direct competitor, and it's 6.93lbs with shock published weight. The axle and bits attached to the Spitfire could be over 0.25 lbs themselves. So it's a little heavier, but it's also slacker and takes a bigger fork.

    The new Spitfire is a XC rider's bike, not a XC racer's bike.

  8. #358
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    I thought the raw color would actually be slightly lighter than the painted models. I guess the gloss paint is pretty heavy, eh?

  9. #359
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    The raw is the heaviest (slightly) due to 2 clearcoat layers... but you'd never notice the difference. Weight is mainly in the mind. If you want to ride faster, further, higher, longer and harder, then ride more. If you want to save weight, then go to the toilet before you ride.

    Its combined weight of bike and rider that matters for long days in the saddle, so 1kg weight difference is only 1% (roughly) weight difference (based on bike and kitted up rider weighing 100kg), but our frames more than make up for this with frame stiffness and pedal efficiency. These attributed will mean you can accelerate harder and hold your line better while loosing less energy to flex and wallowing suspension.

    I design our bikes to be ridden, and ridden hard, because that is what we know the vast majority of banshee customer want... don't listen to the marketeers from the big brands who switch to carbon to mainly increase their profit margins, and start counting grams too much. If you want to do that, and spend more time polishing your bike than riding it, then maybe you should start shaving your legs and buy a 'show bike'

    If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking, and what I've said here will make sense to you.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Keith Scott: "I design our bikes to be ridden, and ridden hard, because that is what we know the vast majority of banshee customer want... don't listen to the marketeers from the big brands who switch to carbon to mainly increase their profit margins, and start counting grams too much. If you want to do that, and spend more time polishing your bike than riding it, then maybe you should start shaving your legs and buy a 'show bike'

    If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking, and what I've said here will make sense to you."
    That, sir, shall be my new signature.

  11. #361
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    Light wheels you can feel while riding. Light frames you can feel when you lift the bike onto the roof rack.

    I know which I care more about.

  12. #362
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    Once I get my new frame, I throw it on the scale and get a pic before building it up.

  13. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    The raw is the heaviest (slightly) due to 2 clearcoat layers... but you'd never notice the difference. Weight is mainly in the mind. If you want to ride faster, further, higher, longer and harder, then ride more. If you want to save weight, then go to the toilet before you ride.

    Its combined weight of bike and rider that matters for long days in the saddle, so 1kg weight difference is only 1% (roughly) weight difference (based on bike and kitted up rider weighing 100kg), but our frames more than make up for this with frame stiffness and pedal efficiency. These attributed will mean you can accelerate harder and hold your line better while loosing less energy to flex and wallowing suspension.

    I design our bikes to be ridden, and ridden hard, because that is what we know the vast majority of banshee customer want... don't listen to the marketeers from the big brands who switch to carbon to mainly increase their profit margins, and start counting grams too much. If you want to do that, and spend more time polishing your bike than riding it, then maybe you should start shaving your legs and buy a 'show bike'

    If you want to go mountain biking, then throw a leg over a new Banshee and the bike will do the talking, and what I've said here will make sense to you.
    Hahaha, yes! That´s exactly why I love Banshee, the Bikes and the People behind the Brand so much

  14. #364
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    check out my mate's Large raw v2 spitfire..



    More pics here on my site
    ((((((((( FAKAWI )))))))))))

  15. #365
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    Show the Pics here! The Link doesn´t work ...

    Edit: Ah yeah! Great looking Spitty
    Last edited by NoStyle; 01-15-2013 at 03:38 AM.

  16. #366
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    Hi from France (and sorry if everything is not clear...)!
    I have just registered to mtbr because i'm a proud owner of a brand new large black ano Spitfire.
    I see that some of you want to know more about this frame so here i am!

    The frame is just under 3.7kg ( under 8.15lbs) in Large size with provided seat collar (not really light), dropouts, derailleur hanger and 142*12 rear axle.
    Sorry no scale shot...

    The full bike weight is around 13.6kg (just under 30lbs) with the following specs:
    Frame: Large black ano Spitfire
    Wheelset: Ztr Arch on Hope pro evo 2 hubs
    Tires: Maxxis Advantage 2.25 and 2.10
    Transmission: Mainly XT, had to revise the e-type 3*10 front dérailleur but it fits!
    Fork: RS Revelation 150mm tapered 15mm axle and Fox CTD shock
    Brakes: Magura Louise Carbon
    Raceface Turbine handlebar and Thomson 50mm X4 Stem
    Seatpost and saddle: KS I950 and SDG Bel air

    Just had two small rides on it but i think this will be a trail eater.
    Yeah this frame is not the lightest but the rear is really stiff, that's impressive and more important for me!
    Coming from years of hardtails it's my first full suspension bike and i didn't want to buy a noodle/chewing-gum frame so i'm more than happy!

    As a new member, i can't post pictures but i'll do this ASAP!

  17. #367
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    Just got word from Trident that my large black ano is shipping. Pretty damn excited.

  18. #368
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    Mine just shipped too. Just got done cleaning and prepping the build kit parts in anticipation. Can't wait to see what the built weight is going to be. Really hoping it is sub 29lb.

    Just got my custom Fox 34 decals in the mail about 5 minutes ago along with the shock mounting hardware!

    Love to see my weight reaction got people a little fired up! Not saying weight is everything, but weight is important. I look forward to seeing how the weight feels when on the bike and how well the bike accelerates ( which is my biggest reason for wanting a lighter bike). I don't mind doing 30 miles on a 30lb machine or climbing 5k feet on one as long as when I get on the pedals it gets up and goes. Some 30lb bikes I have ridden in the past, like my nomad, didn't do that, others, were just fine. But if you have the chance to get out and ride a 26ish pound race built carbon AM machine, I suggest you do. This season I got a chance to put a Remedy 9.9 through it paces and it make me think of weight in a whole new light. That bike was FAST! As soon as you were on the pedals you were gone, I want that again.

    Either way, I am bikeless right now and it is incredibly depressing.

  19. #369
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    No way I'll be under 33 pounds but my build is pretty burly. We'll see where it lands. I loved the way my old spitfire rode with basically the same build, so if I find the new bike to be as some of the others have reported, I won't care what it weighs...will be such a fun sled.

    Large Ano Black Spitfire
    Fox Van 36RC2
    Crossmax XL wheels
    Old style XT brakes
    XT cranks
    e13 LG lite
    XO rear/X9 shifting
    Reverb
    Sunline stem
    ODI 750mm bars
    2.35 DHF front/2.25 Crossmark rear

  20. #370
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    hey keith, how would a manitou isx-6 do on the new spitfire? i have one from my rune, absolutely love it.

    if you think it would suit, any recommended baseline settings or set up tips given the changes to the suspension design from the old vf4b to the ks link? i'm running the compression circuits pretty much full open, wondering if i can still get away with that

  21. #371
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    My build will be:

    Fox 34 Talas converted to Float and dropped to 150mm (650B Variant)
    Fox CTD for XC and a DB Air for park days
    Full XTR Drivetrain set up 1x10 (until the DTswiss XX1 freehub comes back in stock, then XX1)
    XTR Trail Brakes and Rotors
    KindShock LEV Dropper
    SDG Formula FXR Saddle
    Thomson x4 50mm stem
    Cane Creek Angleset
    Easton Havoc Carbon Bars
    DT Swiss M1700 Spline 650B Wheelset
    Schwalbe Hans Dampf in front and Scwalbe Nobby Nic in the rear
    ODI SDG sig grips

    This bike is going to see a lot of miles this year.

  22. #372
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    ^^^ That is one hell of a build. Can't wait til these frames start rolling in and we can see some pictures!

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlongb13 View Post
    But if you have the chance to get out and ride a 26ish pound race built carbon AM machine, I suggest you do. This season I got a chance to put a Remedy 9.9 through it paces and it make me think of weight in a whole new light. That bike was FAST! As soon as you were on the pedals you were gone, I want that again.
    Its mostly in the wheels. Cant compare XC race wheels/tires to AM wheels/tires.

    I can feel a huge difference in acceleration on the same bike, with the same wheels with same settings just by going from a Maxxis LUST tubeless tire to a Maxxis DH tubeless tire which adds around 250grams of rotating mass per tire. Nothing else has changed but the bike "feels" faster.

    Maybe consider going for the XR1450's if snappy acceleration is what you are after? Save 100 grams of rotating mass per wheel. It will make a difference but you loose some reliability and stiffness (obviously, but that is always the trade off)

  24. #374
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    Both bikes had carbon Havens on them. Which if the spitfire builds heavy with the 650b wheels it will be getting my havens on it.

    After doing some math my build should be right around 28.5lb which should work for me. And that's real weights not claimed. Just spent an hour weighing everything haha!

  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlongb13 View Post
    My build will be:

    Fox 34 Talas converted to Float and dropped to 150mm (650B Variant)
    Fox CTD for XC and a DB Air for park days
    Full XTR Drivetrain set up 1x10 (until the DTswiss XX1 freehub comes back in stock, then XX1)
    XTR Trail Brakes and Rotors
    KindShock LEV Dropper
    SDG Formula FXR Saddle
    Thomson x4 50mm stem
    Cane Creek Angleset
    Easton Havoc Carbon Bars
    DT Swiss M1700 Spline 650B Wheelset
    Schwalbe Hans Dampf in front and Scwalbe Nobby Nic in the rear
    ODI SDG sig grips

    This bike is going to see a lot of miles this year.
    That's gonna be a very nice build, especially with the XX1 when you get it. I'll be watching to see if you hit the goal weight of 28.5lbs. I'd be pretty dam happy with that running the Fox 34 and a dropper. Fox pisses me off as the Floats are white and the Talas black. I would want a Float but not in white and the GD thing is so pricey to begin with to go about swapping the internals.

    Why the Angle Set? (maybe you already have it but I would use a Works Components over the CC as it's a more sano setup IMO).

    I've got 650B NN on my Jamis front/back. Really tall and they roll nice and a little better than the Neo Moto 2.3's I also use. I think the HD front NN rear will be a fantastic combo. Also check out the new Vee Rubber Trail Taker 2.4 as a front possibility
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  26. #376
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    Already have it. Also have a 40 series if I don't feel the need for the Angle Set.

    I have been running Nobby Nics on my trail bike for the past year or so, love that tire. Just used the HD for the first time over the winter and it really impressed me up front, I just don't want a big ole 2.35 in the rear, so going with the smaller NN.

    Keep your eye out for the new Kenda Honey Badger. It will be available in this year. Awesome looking tire, saw it at Interbike this past year.

    After weighing all my XTR gear it is actually lighter than the XX1 set up so kinda not in a rush to get it. And I truly love XTR drivetrain gear, not sure if I wanna get rid of the most predictable, reliable, and precise equipment I have ever had on my rig. And Shimano has the double shift for dropping it down and getting up to speed, man I love that feature.

  27. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlongb13 View Post
    Both bikes had carbon Havens on them. Which if the spitfire builds heavy with the 650b wheels it will be getting my havens on it.

    After doing some math my build should be right around 28.5lb which should work for me. And that's real weights not claimed. Just spent an hour weighing everything haha!
    If you can afford it high end carbon wheels are the way to go.

  28. #378
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    Does anyone(kevin) know if Hope Tech has a headset for this bike? I'd like to keep a general theme going. Thanks

  29. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaithcock View Post
    Does anyone(kevin) know if Hope Tech has a headset for this bike? I'd like to keep a general theme going. Thanks
    They do. Fourth headset from the left (Tapered/E2) on page 3 - http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modul...ETS2011Web.pdf

  30. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaithcock View Post
    Does anyone(kevin) know if Hope Tech has a headset for this bike? I'd like to keep a general theme going. Thanks
    Yes, it is what I put on my 2013 spitfire

    Top Cup 1.1/8" - Integral 43.95mm (Hope Pick n Mix Headsets - Top Cup | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com)
    Bottom Cup 1.5" - Integral 55.9mm (Hope Pick n Mix Headsets - Bottom Cup | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com)

  31. #381
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    Yeah, that looks good. Thanks, guys.

  32. #382
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    Got the 650B wheels in. They look great as all DT wheels do. Came in at 1763 grams, a whopping 14 grams lighter than the claimed weight.



    Also got the custom decals in for the 34 to match the black frame and graphics.
    Got the rest of the parts in as well, but these are the two I am most pumped about! Frame should be in Friday, Monday at the latest! Can't wait!

  33. #383
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    Ah, foreplay...it's gonna be good!
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  34. #384
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    Gotta ask, where did you get the custom decals for the Fox?

  35. #385
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    Medium, post clamp, 135 dropouts with hanger


  36. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    Gotta ask, where did you get the custom decals for the Fox?
    Slik Graphics

    Took about a week to get here. Ends up being about 36 bucks with shipping.

  37. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nescafe View Post
    Medium, post clamp, 135 dropouts with hanger

    Ooomph. Wonder how much more the raw weighs.

  38. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nescafe View Post
    Medium, post clamp, 135 dropouts with hanger

    Looks like 7.95625 lbs with Fox shock which would make it 8.5+lbs with CC DBair. Really surprised this frame is the same weight as the Rune & Prime. Must have the same rear triangle & tubeset. I think it's 1-1.5 lbs too heavy to be competitive in this category. May have to sit on the sidelines a while longer, want similar 27.5 frame at 7 lbs or less.

  39. #389
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    <8lbs is totally reasonable, if it's anywhere near as stiff & quiet as my 9lb Prime prototype.

    Certainly plenty of other options available if you want something less stout.

  40. #390
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    Smile

    Given that the Rune v2 is pretty much in the same class as the Chilcotin, I was hoping the new Spitty would be similar to the new Endorphin, which, according to Pinkbike weighs in at a very respectable 6.55 lb with float ctd shock. I imagine with the right build, the Spitty could probably be hucked and ridden nearly as hard as a Chili or Rune, where the Endorphin is more suited to less aggressive riding, at least on a regular basis.

  41. #391
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    Hi
    Is that a medium or a small?

  43. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlongb13 View Post
    Ooomph. Wonder how much more the raw weighs.
    The raws are around 200g heavier than the ano frames.
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  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by meekkho View Post
    Hi
    Is that a medium or a small?
    You mean the wheels?................there medium. lol

  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    <8lbs is totally reasonable, if it's anywhere near as stiff & quiet as my 9lb Prime prototype.

    Certainly plenty of other options available if you want something less stout.
    There are plenty of stout bikes under 7lb, that argument doesn't work. And we obviously don't want other bikes, we want the spitfire, we just are surprised by the weight given the competitions weight.

  46. #396
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    Well, the pictured scale says: 7,1530 lbs (not 7.95625 lbs) = 3,5765 kg = 3576,5 Gramms, including Fox-Shock (!), Dropouts (QR), Clamp. Subtract the Shock and you will end up at around 3,2 kg for a Double Powdercoated Frame. Subtract the Coating and you will end up around 3 kg for Black-Anodized.

    Is it Carbon-Lightweight? No! Is it heavy? No, not really in my Opinion!

    Yes, Competitors offer plenty of stout Bikes under 7 lbs. Let´s hope you can shred them all as hard as the Spitfire, without ovalising Headtubes, breaking Chainstays or dented Downtubes by Rockfall, thru Years, jump Obstacles in Bikeparks, everywhere up and down ... and remember the Spitfire is just a little "Trailbike" ...

    We will see how troublefree the latest Carbon- or other lightweight "Trailbike"-Offerings will carry on the next two Seasons ...

  47. #397
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    Considering how popular the Blurs and Nomads are I think they fare just fine. And that picture said 7lb 15oz.

  48. #398
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    :-)
    I meant the frame

  49. #399
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    Nescafe

    Is that scale reading 7.15 lbs? Can't tell if that's the current time or weight? Is that a veggie scale or what?

  50. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlongb13 View Post
    There are plenty of stout bikes under 7lb, that argument doesn't work. And we obviously don't want other bikes, we want the spitfire, we just are surprised by the weight given the competitions weight.
    Don't get me wrong, light bikes are great if there are no compromises taken getting there.
    The spitfire has adjustable drop-outs, those will add weight compared to the simpler designs used by other brands.

    Transition lists the covert as 7.68lb with shock, no adjustable drop-outs. The carbon version is 6.8lbs & $2800. Those are reasonable weights IMO.

    I just built up a Kona Honzo Hardtail, 6lbs for the frame. adjustable drop-outs.... no shock obviously! Rides great. And I don't have to worry about it!

    I just don't see much point in getting hung up over <1lb of frame weight, you are getting extra durability, stiffness and adjustability with it. Frame weight doesn't tell you much about how the bike will actually ride.
    Last edited by FM; 01-17-2013 at 09:10 AM.

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