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Thread: 2013 Spitfire

  1. #1701
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    Sv: 2013 Spitfire

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingleberry88 View Post
    What length stealth reverbs is everyone running? Heard there might be clearance issues with the 420mm...
    It depends on your post insert and frame size

  2. #1702
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    Here is mine. There is no build list because it is built with my 26" parts.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00000536115265
    Last edited by guswalls; 06-19-2014 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Failed link
    SOLD: 2010 EWR OWB 29er
    SOLD: 2012 Transition Bottlerocket

    2013 Banshee Spitfire XL Red

  3. #1703
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    Link fail

  4. #1704
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    Try it now. I am at a tech conference and am figuring out how to learn things.
    Thanx supercow.
    SOLD: 2010 EWR OWB 29er
    SOLD: 2012 Transition Bottlerocket

    2013 Banshee Spitfire XL Red

  5. #1705
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    Don't think that FB links been set to public bud.

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  6. #1706
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    Try this one please.
    https://www.facebook.com/n/?video%2F...ls%40yahoo.com

    Hopefully soon, I will be able to post and you can just push the button to watch the movie
    SOLD: 2010 EWR OWB 29er
    SOLD: 2012 Transition Bottlerocket

    2013 Banshee Spitfire XL Red

  7. #1707
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    Perhaps technology is not the direction in which you want to take your career. :-)

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  8. #1708
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    Help

    supercow
    Perhaps technology is not the direction in which you want to take your career. :-)


    @supercow and others: How do I post this video? I did repost it on another Facebook page as public, but how do people insert the videos in where you can just click the button and go. I was working on an iPad so maybe that has something to do with it.
    SOLD: 2010 EWR OWB 29er
    SOLD: 2012 Transition Bottlerocket

    2013 Banshee Spitfire XL Red

  9. #1709
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    Hi All,

    Just a quick question about the shock. Really - HELP NEEDED!!

    I ride a Large Spitfire V2. Great bike. The current shock is Fox DHX Air 4.0 that was originally bought as a temp solution (the frame was bought w/o a shock).

    The current choice and question I face is:

    Monarch Plus DebonAir in M/M tune OR X-Fusion Vector HLR Air?

    Vector will probably come used and a bit cheaper than Monarch, but after a while may require a service equalling the cost.

    Monarch is coming in new but I'm worried about these things:

    - M/M tune. My understanding is that Spitfire really benefits from a Light tune.
    - DebonAir spring - how will it hold on the frame with my weight (around 220 lbs geared)? Or will the M/M tune help here?
    - Higher air pressure. From what I understand, DeonbAir uses higher pressures compared to standard air cans to achieve the same sag.

    I briefly used an older (2011) Monarch Plus in L/L and a 2013 MOnarch RT3, in L/L tune as well. Both had to be pressurized to about 220 psi to achieve recommended sag. BTW, I would not want any of these 2 monarchs to have a firmer tune, so again another reason to worry about M/M.

    I'm looking to get a 'holy grail os suspension', as always It must be very sensitive to small bumps but not bottom out easily. Mid-stroke support is desireable as well but my undestanding is that both these shocks are good in this regard.

    Any thoughts and advice would be highly appreciated.

  10. #1710
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    Any particular reason for not getting a CCDBair?

  11. #1711
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    Any particular reason for not getting a CCDBair?
    Mainly financial Well, a bit of a weight saving but that's just an excuse to be honest

  12. #1712
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    I'd go xfusion myself. Ccdb are wayyyyyyy over rated IMHO. Xfusion are easy to set up and their performance is easily on par with the ccdb if not better. Plus if you do send it in for service xfusion can tune it for the spitfire

  13. #1713
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    In what sense do you see the CCDB as overrated? The one on my Spitfire has been incredibly good, definitively the best shock I have ridden. I suppose you could argue that the setup is irritating, but the flexibility of tuning is pretty sweet.

    I am not familiar with the XFusion, but if you're a big guy, the added volume on the XFusion could mean less wear on the shock. Have you reached out to the Banshee guys directly?
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  14. #1714
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    In what sense do you see the CCDB as overrated? The one on my Spitfire has been incredibly good, definitively the best shock I have ridden. I suppose you could argue that the setup is irritating, but the flexibility of tuning is pretty sweet.

    I am not familiar with the XFusion, but if you're a big guy, the added volume on the XFusion could mean less wear on the shock. Have you reached out to the Banshee guys directly?
    It is my personal opinion. I've had the coil version and the air. It is a one shock do every frame design shock. Not the best in every situation. If you talk to a suspension tuner or one who builds their own shock like Craig from avalanche he will confirm. The ccdb has always suffered from a lack of oil flow which can cause the shock to be overwhelmed by successive big hits and cause it to spike. It's a decent shock but by no means the holy grail it gets made out to be. There are people who have ridden the fox float with the $179 avalanche upgrade who have ridden the ccdb as well and feel the float works better.

  15. #1715
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    It is my personal opinion. I've had the coil version and the air. It is a one shock do every frame design shock. Not the best in every situation. If you talk to a suspension tuner or one who builds their own shock like Craig from avalanche he will confirm. The ccdb has always suffered from a lack of oil flow which can cause the shock to be overwhelmed by successive big hits and cause it to spike. It's a decent shock but by no means the holy grail it gets made out to be. There are people who have ridden the fox float with the $179 avalanche upgrade who have ridden the ccdb as well and feel the float works better.
    Funny you mention this about the CCDB, when i test rode the spitfire i spoke to the shop about shock options, the mechanic there is very well known for knowing his onions about suspension. He was absolutely raving about how good the X Fusion was. He lent me his XFusion 02 RLX along with the stock CCDB that was usually used for test rides. The x fusion blew me away, i liked the simplicity in the set up, the initial stroke was very plush along with feeling supported through the rest. It just felt like a very solid shock.

    So did the CCDB to be honest but considering the price difference it was a no brainer for me.

    To the people on here who talk about the adjustability of the CCDB, why is that such a good thing. I bet 99 percent of people tune to the base tune provided by Cane Creek and never move from that. I do not know enough about suspension to warrant all that adjustability, and ill bet thats the same for the majority out there whether they admit it or not.

  16. #1716
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    Quote Originally Posted by macthekife View Post
    ... To the people on here who talk about the adjustability of the CCDB, why is that such a good thing. I bet 99 percent of people tune to the base tune provided by Cane Creek and never move from that ...
    This can be said for every shock - once you found a great working setting you donīt change much, if ever again ...

    What I like about the CCDB (mine is a regular, no VX or CS!) is the wide range of adjustability without the need of custom tuning, shimming or what not. Need more bottom-out-resistance? Add a spacer. Want some more "pop-off"? Simply add some air or add 2-3 Klicks more LSC/LSR and there you are.
    What sounds complicated at first turnes out to be easy "tunable" and user-friendly once you get the idea how this shock works.

  17. #1717
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    So didn't get out last weekend but did get out a couple of times this week and after adding some more pressure to the CCDB the bike is riding so much better than it ever has so thanks for the suggestions in getting the rid of the wallowy/sluggish feeling I was getting from the bike in rough/technical stuff.

    I thought the bike was confidence inspiring before but it was like it had been transformed today and I was hitting stuff with more speed and confidence than I had previously.

    In terms of the shock, it's far better than any fox I've had on bikes before and I do agree with NoStyle, once you get it set up you don't normally have to touch it again. That being said I can believe that the X-Fusion will be a great shock given how good the sweeps are I've got up front on my Spitty.

  18. #1718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Evteev View Post

    Monarch Plus DebonAir in M/M tune OR X-Fusion Vector HLR Air?
    Before I ordered my Monarch Plus I emailed Banshee (Dennis) and he wasn't 100% sure on the tune but recommended going for a mid-tune with a high volume can, should give a good linear feel. Should be on the bike in a week or so!

  19. #1719
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    Still waiting for the new Inline. Should be available soon. Shock should be amazing.

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  20. #1720
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    How about Avalanche tuning the DHX Air?

  21. #1721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Evteev View Post
    Hi All,

    Just a quick question about the shock. Really - HELP NEEDED!!

    I ride a Large Spitfire V2. Great bike. The current shock is Fox DHX Air 4.0 that was originally bought as a temp solution (the frame was bought w/o a shock).

    The current choice and question I face is:

    Monarch Plus DebonAir in M/M tune OR X-Fusion Vector HLR Air?

    Vector will probably come used and a bit cheaper than Monarch, but after a while may require a service equalling the cost.

    Monarch is coming in new but I'm worried about these things:

    - M/M tune. My understanding is that Spitfire really benefits from a Light tune.
    - DebonAir spring - how will it hold on the frame with my weight (around 220 lbs geared)? Or will the M/M tune help here?
    - Higher air pressure. From what I understand, DeonbAir uses higher pressures compared to standard air cans to achieve the same sag.

    I briefly used an older (2011) Monarch Plus in L/L and a 2013 MOnarch RT3, in L/L tune as well. Both had to be pressurized to about 220 psi to achieve recommended sag. BTW, I would not want any of these 2 monarchs to have a firmer tune, so again another reason to worry about M/M.

    I'm looking to get a 'holy grail os suspension', as always It must be very sensitive to small bumps but not bottom out easily. Mid-stroke support is desireable as well but my undestanding is that both these shocks are good in this regard.

    Any thoughts and advice would be highly appreciated.
    So I thought I'd post a bit of feedback.

    I did not go for X-Fusion after meeting in person and seeing it in flesh. It looked a bit more used than I was expecting and would require a service shortly. Apart from that, there was definitely an area on the shaft that looked.. not worn, but you could tell that the most seal movement was there, the anodizing looked a bit different although still quite smooth to the touch.

    Probably I'm a bit paranoid but decided to keep the brand new DebonAir (who knows if it was a good decision? ).

    So far roughly 3,5 hours riding time on brand new Monarch Debon Air in M/M tune. The impressions may change as it breaks in but so far:

    - As I suspected, it requires A HELL OF A LOT more pressure. Regular Monarch and DHX Air needed around 220 psi, this one requires 295 (!) psi for a 15 mm sag. My weight is around 220 lbs naked.
    - It has very strong mid stroke support. So strong I'm not sure I really need that much.
    - Small bumps seem good to really good.
    - Mid bumps seem... not so good, as I think stong mid stroke plays against it.
    - Bottom out? Well, I did not really jump but I don't think I've seen the shock go over 80% of travel even in G-outs or places that would get other shocks move closer to the end of the travel.
    - Pedalling. Very good.
    - Rebound. Strange feeling, but I still cannot fine tune it. The shock overall leaves a bit strange feeling with good small bumps and strong mid stroke so I keep spinning the adjuster back and forth

    So speaking about the overall shock impressions, I can say that they're a bit mixed at the moment. There's definitely something to this DebonAir setup, but so far I probably liked the suspension that was sagging into the travel a bit better. The front forks are 2009 Float 36 RC2s with a shortened air spring rod and SKF seals, and they're quite plush and willing to use the travel. The same cannot be said about the shock - mid travel is not.... harsh exactly, but quite 'dense', maybe. IMO Spitfire has a very good leverage curve (one of the reasons I went for it) and does not need THAT MUCH help with mid stroke. So far it feels like DebonAir M/M has a lot to offer in mid-stroke, but not too much to adjust it out. The bike at times feels that tiny bit hardtail-ish because the mid stroke is solid at the rear but not so much at the front. I'm still getting used to this, so far feels a bit unbalanced front to rear. The 'bottomless feel' of DebonAir? Hmmm.... I definitely could not get closer to the bottom of the travel and I'm not sure how strong the impact should be in order to make this happen, but I would not call this 'bottomless feel'. The bike still feels fast but does behave differently to what it was.

    Another way to describe it - it does feel nice, if only it would deliver a bit more travel overall. Feels a bit 'shallow' so far. To be honest, this feeling about Spitfire suspension has been there from the start with DHX Air and regular Monarchs (Plus/RT3). I'm not sure if I'm asking too much, but this is by far not the first 140 mm bike I have and I've had others that would feel deeper. Should I have went for Rune?

    The plan on what to do next is a bit uncertain. I'm thinking if I should open an essentially brand new shock and try to re-tune it to an M/L spec as described here:

    Monarch RC3 Plus shim stack

    I think that I should run it for a bit longer first and see if it breaks in and things improve without too much interference.

    My main concern and 'dislike' is a very strong mid stroke and not being able to get closer to the end of the travel with proper sag and good small bump sensitivity.

    Will try to keep updating on the subject.

    Any thoughts and suggestions welcome!

  22. #1722
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    Andrew, have you tried something so simple as dropping 10-15 PSI out of the new shock to see what that does? Setting SAG perfectly to what it's 'sposed to be is great, in theory, but everyone has their own personal riding style and how they like a bike to feel. Thought I had it saved, but can't find t now, so must ask, what percentage of travel does 15mm SAG give you? Going by rough calculations it should be somewhere around 25%, but IIRC, the travel use on the KS Link is not linear and so it could be less or more. Some people like to run a stiffer, less sagged bike, some a plusher, more sagged bike, experiment, it's your bike and despite what your best friend says, or whatever pro or even Keith, they are not you, set it up to suit you, to your liking, so it feels how you like it. I think a bit more SAG should help you achieve what you're looking for.

    Maybe the M/M tune does not suit the Spitty and you, but unless you experiment with something so simple as PSI first, before you going pulling at the insides, you will never know.

    I had a pre-production Prime with a DHXA and I also had a weird feeling I could never get rid of with the rebound on it, but I think that's just the DHXA, unless you really go into and mess about with shim stacks and configuration, which I did and which did help a bit, so messing around insde can help, but I didn't do it until I had tried everything I could first. Now I'm on a Phantom running an X-Fusion 02 RCX, running probably close to 20% SAG and having no trouble getting and using full travel (no big jumps/drops, nothing over 2ft, but some decent G-outs) and it feels nice and firm pedaling, never notice a wallowy feeling like I had on the Prime with the DHXA and then am always surprised when I look down at the shock and see I've used all travel.
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  23. #1723
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    Thanks LyNx, it all makes sense to me.

    I did try to run Spitfire V2 with more and less sag on previous shocks and actually found that running 25-26 % sag on the shaft (around 14.5-15 mm, and it translates to roughly 30% of suspenstion travel from what I'd read on Bansheebikes blog) results in a 'better' ride than 30% sag on the shaft (around 17 mm and I think around 34-35% suspension sag). By 'better' I mean at least as good or better small bump sensitivity (counter intuitive but still) and livelier bike.

    I think it may have something to do with the wheel path (it's backwards in the earlier part of travel so if you sag it deeper you have less of backwards wheel trajectory left) and leverage curve. The suspension is nicely progressive but you don't really want to use this progression too early in order to maintain sensitivity.

    Having said that, I will try to give it a go. If it does not work directly it may at least help the shock to break in deeper in the travel

  24. #1724
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    It is my personal opinion. I've had the coil version and the air. It is a one shock do every frame design shock. Not the best in every situation. If you talk to a suspension tuner or one who builds their own shock like Craig from avalanche he will confirm. The ccdb has always suffered from a lack of oil flow which can cause the shock to be overwhelmed by successive big hits and cause it to spike. It's a decent shock but by no means the holy grail it gets made out to be. There are people who have ridden the fox float with the $179 avalanche upgrade who have ridden the ccdb as well and feel the float works better.
    Interesting - when I say that the CCDBA is the best shock I've used, I am coming off of a Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon that had a dreadful RP23 followed by a pretty solid Push'd RC4. That said, it is my first departure from Fox, so who knows what I'm missing out on.

    Maybe your experience can help me sort out an issue I've been having with the Spitfire...just this past weekend I took it up and rode one of the faster, gnarlier trails that I've ridden in a while, and I think I may have been experiencing the "compression spiking" that you were talking about. At higher speeds, the back end would tend to buck me a little bit when encountering fast, square edged hits, but without using all of its travel. I was thinking that I may just be running a bit too much compression damping, but could this be an issue inherent in the shock? All I know is, it didn't feel great.
    2014 Banshee Spitfire 650b
    2011-ish Chromag Samurai

  25. #1725
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyz View Post
    Interesting - when I say that the CCDBA is the best shock I've used, I am coming off of a Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon that had a dreadful RP23 followed by a pretty solid Push'd RC4. That said, it is my first departure from Fox, so who knows what I'm missing out on.

    Maybe your experience can help me sort out an issue I've been having with the Spitfire...just this past weekend I took it up and rode one of the faster, gnarlier trails that I've ridden in a while, and I think I may have been experiencing the "compression spiking" that you were talking about. At higher speeds, the back end would tend to buck me a little bit when encountering fast, square edged hits, but without using all of its travel. I was thinking that I may just be running a bit too much compression damping, but could this be an issue inherent in the shock? All I know is, it didn't feel great.
    that is what people experience, myself included. the shock is super adjustable, no doubt. but oil flow is an issue. try opening up your hsc and run that loop again. but also do some drops at that setting and make sure you don't blow through the travel. it is hard to find the happy medium. when i opened up hsc it blew through the travel on big hits. the spiking happens on fast successive hits. i could never tune it out

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