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Thread: 2013 Spitfire

  1. #126
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    Hey Chris, we have some professional reviews in the pipeline that will be reviewing the bikes in both 26" and 650B, and hopefully at least one comparing wheel sizes on the bike with everything else equal.

    My opinion of 650B is that it again comes down to personal preferance with same pros and cons of any wheel size. I can see 650B becoming a popular option for trail / all mountain riders once component options catch up.

    Selecting wheel size really is about optimal compromise.
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  2. #127
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    Little freaked out on the wheelbase

    Gotta say this new bike looks great and the KS link seems to be the real deal in performance and I can use my 650 wheels . While most seem to like the low/slack setting option I would most likely use the high/steep setting for New England tight rocky conditions. I want a bike I can pedal through rock gardens without constant hits, and climb up and over the technical rock and root infested trails we have here. That's the most important to me. Descending is really the least of my concerns and I already know this bike is more than capable and well, gravity will get you there one way or another.

    So (based on a large frame) the wheel base on this thing is looooong. Longer than most 29'ers 2.1" longer than my current 2011 Jamis Dakar 650. 2.4" longer than a Mojo HD 140, and 1-1.5" longer than almost any other 650B bike that's available (or will be). Only the new Scott is close @ .1" shorter.

    Can this bike be nimble, agile, lively and work in my conditions or is it just gonna feel like a sled that's always waiting to go down hill and fight me on the gnarly climbs? 30+ years of dirt bikes I know a long WB can help with climbing and keep the front end down. Perhaps the Spitty would be this way? But at the expense of agility and liveliness?

    I think I get the reach/stack thing and I would use a 50-60mm stem from my current 75mm.

    Me I'm 6' exact with 34.5" inseam so I assume a large like my current bike. Also I hate tons of seat post showing (current is 9.5") which a medium would force me to do. Below you can see how different the bikes are so why I'm somewhat apprehensive. This is a size Large with 650B wheels.

    Jamis Dakar -------------- Spitty
    Stack 23.5--------------------23.2
    Reach 17.125----------------17.8
    Top Tube 23.7---------------24.2
    Stem 75mm-------------------50-60mm (I assume to match Jamis reach?)
    WB 44.76--------------------- 46.8
    HA 69----------------------------67, 66.5, 66
    Head tube 5.5-----------------4.5
    Spacers 20mm---------------???
    SA 73 degrees---------------74.5, 74, 73.5 ESA
    Seat post 18------------------18.5
    BB height 13.4 (bad)------13.9, 13.65, 13.4
    CSL 17.7------------------------17.2, 17.3, 17.4

    Thoughts and input please and getting a demo ride is most likely not remotely possible with no dealers anywhere close.
    Last edited by skidad; 11-18-2012 at 09:09 AM.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  3. #128
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    I've owned the V1 spitfire for 2.5 years and have ridden it long and hard. It is setup primarily for XC due to the type of terrain for my locale. It is about 25-26 lbs. The geo is great as an all around bike. While the HA is slackened which helps the descent, it does slightly hinder the climbs. The SA is steepened and this helps to put you into a more forward climbing position while seated during climbs. So the SA in my opinion helps factor out the slack HA for climbs.
    One of my biggest complaints about the bike is it is kind of a dead fish in terms of liveliness. Manuals are near impossible. The front end does not like to be off the ground. "Popping off" jumps is impossible.You can feel the length of the wheelbase in air and it feels flexed with no stabilization. With forks less than 140mm the BB height causes some pedal strikes. Not much for me because I'm running 165mm length crank arms, but I would like to go longer in crankarm length since I do a lot of pedaling. The BB height does help in terms of cornering and getting low to the ground and hugging the turns is what it likes to do. As does any bike with a BB height <13.5".
    The spitfire is essentially a sled that likes to carve the trails. It performs great when on the ground but agile and liveliness is lacking. I would hate to try the spitfire at a park with any jumps or doubles with gaps. It flexes so terribly. I am suffering from framewear in the rear triangle, mind you.
    The new spitfire will have a shorter chainstay, but longer top tube I believe. It will be interesting to see if the this changes the maneuverability. I think the long wheelbase is killing any agility the bike could have otherwise. It would be nice to have some way to further shorten the chainstay length thereby shortening the wheelbase as well.
    Did the wheelbase on the V2 get shorter, longer or stay the same? I haven't perused the numbers, but on the website and forums there are several different versions and I'm not sure which one is V1 and what's V2 measurements.
    Will the V2 have the frame adjustablity at the shock? The steep setting is a very odd geo once you have used it in the slack setting.
    If Banshee could make a Spitfire that rides like the rampant, but with longer travel then they would rule the market. That bike is radness. i only wish it had a little more travel and a 142x12mm TA.

  4. #129
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    Here is the Geometry of the V2 Spitfire again:



    In my opinion every Bike with this "new-school-geo" do have (much) longer Wheelbase - that comes from the Fact that Seatangles are getting steeper, slightly longer Toptubes (for shorter Stems and wider Bars) and therefor longer Reach. Slacker Headangles too, but mostly shorter Chainstays as previous Models.
    This gives you a more "foreward-Position" on the Bike - in my opinion a great benefit for both Climbing and Descending. So hiawatha-de, all of what you have requested has been adressed in the V2. Geometry is now adjustable via Flip-Chips in the Dropouts and there are three Rear-Axle-Standards to choose, plus 140 mm Reartravel. Will it ride differently than the V1? We will see, but Iīm sure it has improved in every way ...

    By the way Keith - NoStyle and Sizing and such ... :
    Was still a little unsure due to Framesizing, so I measured myself several times again, as my Body-measurements were done when I was 21 years of age. I am now 180/181 cm tall, with an inseam of 85-86 cm.
    Donīt know if this is a "bad" news or a "sad" news, because now I am 45 years of age ... still getting older ... and ... still shrinking.
    The good thing: That should set me better to fit a Medium Spitty, as this one is going to be my Do-it-All-Bike for both climbing and descending, and everything where a nimble and playfull handling is preferred.

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  5. #130
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    So are the chainstays adjustable via the dropout chips? Or, does the chainstay length change with the adjustable geometry at the shock eye?h

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    In my opinion every Bike with this "new-school-geo" do have (much) longer Wheelbase - that comes from the Fact that Seatangles are getting steeper, slightly longer Toptubes (for shorter Stems and wider Bars) and therefor longer Reach. Slacker Headangles too, but mostly shorter Chainstays as previous Models.
    This gives you a more "foreward-Position" on the Bike - in my opinion a great benefit for both Climbing and Descending. So hiawatha-de, all of what you have requested has been adressed in the V2. Geometry is now adjustable via Flip-Chips in the Dropouts and there are three Rear-Axle-Standards to choose, plus 140 mm Reartravel. Will it ride differently than the V1? We will see, but Iīm sure it has improved in every way ...
    Well said. Keith also did a good job of explaining this in the Rune thread (I think that's where I saw it, anyway).

    This geometry is the way forward. I have one of the pre-production Primes and have been riding that since March. The advantages described are real. My Prime outclimbs my hardtail (a Yelli Screamy), and despite the 3" longer wheelbase it gets around the same tight switchbacks with no drama. And the downhills? Well...
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  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha-de View Post
    So are the chainstays adjustable via the dropout chips? Or, does the chainstay length change with the adjustable geometry at the shock eye?h
    Hi hiawatha-de,

    please check out some previews and Pictures that are linked here a few pages further, so you can see and clearly understand the new Features the KS-Link gives to the Runes, Primes and Spitfires.
    The Geometry is now adjustable through the new designed Dropouts, not the Shock-Mounts anymore. The Chainstaylength is NOT adjustable! Itīs very slightly growing length comes from the more rearwarded Axlepath the slacker the Geometry is set.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    PM sent
    Cannot answer in PM due message counter, so: Thanks a lot!
    that gave me some ideas.

  9. #134
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    Ah, the suspense is killing me. When's the soonest this frame will be available?

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead-Sled View Post
    Ah, the suspense is killing me. When's the soonest this frame will be available?
    Yup, me to...then we have to all go through the same sizing dilemma like in the Rune thread

    Here is the latest info I got from Banshee on Nov. 6th. Could be a beautiful Christmas

    The first Spitfires should be leaving the factory in 2 or 3 weeks. Add another 3 weeks on the boat to get to North America & you should be able to get one before Christmas.

    Cheers

    Jon Hadfield
    Sales & Marketing Manager
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  11. #136
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    V2 improvements

    Keith,
    Can you give us a brief description of how the V2 will ride given its new improvements? Also, what is the increase in weight for the overall frame? Can you run the same headset as the V1? The banshee website hasn't been updated to determine this info. thanks.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha-de View Post
    Keith,
    Can you give us a brief description of how the V2 will ride given its new improvements? Also, what is the increase in weight for the overall frame? Can you run the same headset as the V1? The banshee website hasn't been updated to determine this info. thanks.
    The post 7 posts ago on this very page will show you the headtube specs
    Seems you can't use the V1's lower headset.
    Have a read through this entire thread for more info.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha-de View Post
    Keith,
    Can you give us a brief description of how the V2 will ride given its new improvements? Also, what is the increase in weight for the overall frame? Can you run the same headset as the V1? The banshee website hasn't been updated to determine this info. thanks.
    The spitfire V2 specs will appear on the website when the frames start shipping out. Weight will be a touch heavier than V1, but the frame is stiffer, has more travel, and modilar dropouts dropouts. When production frames are ready we will weigh one and post photo on website. The V2 has a different standard headset... tapered 44/56.

    In terms of balance, geometry and pedaling efficiency the spitfire V2 feels very similar to the V1 despite the exra 13mm of travel. However the suspension is definitely more supple and controlled when riding ard through rough stuff, and so holding the line is easier and you have noticably more traction when railing round sketchy corners and better control over rocks and roots. The V2 is more playful and easier to pop off things, bunny hop, manual and play around on the trail. The fun factor is turned up to 11!
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  14. #139
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    Are alot of riders waiting on the new Spitfire planning to try out a 650b for a front wheel & 26" on the rear? Seems like that would be fun.

    Looking forward to seeing the new builds next month!

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitewerks View Post
    Are alot of riders waiting on the new Spitfire planning to try out a 650b for a front wheel & 26" on the rear? Seems like that would be fun ...
    Me personally I will not mix Wheelsizes anymore. First ride is going to be with 26 and switch to 650B when more Forks than Fox 34er or Rock Shox Revelation (650B, 150/160 mm Travel) are available.

  16. #141
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    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
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  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
    Good news! Thank you!

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
    Wow! You guys will have quite the revised lineup.
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  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.
    Maybe a new Spitfire with 650B wheels? I've just gotten in 2 rides on some new Schwalbe NN 650B tires and wow, nice! These things measure almost a full 28" tall and I'm loving the ride and traction on the rocks we have here.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Maybe a new Spitfire with 650B wheels?
    I'm not totally convinced of the benefits of "mid-sized" wheels. Or, better: I think that could have been a good solution if we were to start mountain bike development from scratch, but at this point I think that 650b offer just a small advantage over 26" while limiting your choice of rims, tires, forks... To be honest I never tried a 650b bike so I could be wrong, but for now I'd like to focus on 26" and 29" (I reckon both formats have their pros and cons). In a couple of years we'll see if the manufacters want us to ride 650b bikes...

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    I'm not totally convinced of the benefits of "mid-sized" wheels. Or, better: I think that could have been a good solution if we were to start mountain bike development from scratch, but at this point I think that 650b offer just a small advantage over 26" while limiting your choice of rims, tires, forks... To be honest I never tried a 650b bike so I could be wrong, but for now I'd like to focus on 26" and 29" (I reckon both formats have their pros and cons). In a couple of years we'll see if the manufacters want us to ride 650b bikes...
    You obvioulsy don't follow the 650B news and trends or you would know all the forks, tires and rims that are, or will be available very soon. And more coming. I've been on this bandwagon for 2+ years now and the benefits are real. A 28" tire like the the new NN is approaching a smaller 29" tire FWIW.

    Have a look at this link from the Taichung Bike Week in Taiwan 27.5 Developing News in the 650B forum.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/tai...ws-824408.html
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  23. #148
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    Super excited for this bike, though I wish the Spitty got the blue instead of the Rune. Everything is exactly right - the medium sounds like it will fit me like a glove, the head angle is sweet, the 16.9" seat tube means I can get the seat low for AM-trials...

    Quick question though builttoride - would reaming the seatpost out to 31.6 be possible? I hate to give up my Reverb that's been flawless. I guess on that note, do you know offhand the maximum insertion on the medium? I've got the longer Reverb and hope to be able to slam it.
    Last edited by LostBoyScout; 11-21-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    You obvioulsy don't follow the 650B news and trends or you would know all the forks, tires and rims that are, or will be available very soon. And more coming. I've been on this bandwagon for 2+ years now and the benefits are real. A 28" tire like the the new NN is approaching a smaller 29" tire FWIW.
    Now that the Fox 34 forks, ZTR Flow rims, and Schwalbe Nobby Nic and Hans Dampf all come in 27.5 I'm completely covered. Not sure if I'll do it but all the tools are there.
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  25. #150
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    @ Keith:

    Due to the Geometry-Chart the Spitfire is compatible to Forks with maximum 160 mm Travel and ZeroStack-Headset. I suspect that a taller Fork with 170 mm will void the Warranty.

    My Fork-Choice isnīt clear yet. Maybe I can get a Deal on a 160 mm 650B 34er Fox, which for sure does have a taller A-2-C (around + 10 mm?) than a 160 mm 26" 34er Fox. I too plan on running an Angleset, which must have a external lower Cup because of Tapered Steerer. Unfortunately the new Forks are Tapered Steerer only and that gives some limited Choices. All of this will add height.

    Does this affect the Warranty? Is it straight max. 160 mm Travel and ZeroStack, regardless of Wheelsize? Does the Warranty, and more important, the Construction and durability of the Spitfire allow for 160 mm plus External lower Cup?

    Many Greetings
    NoStyle

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