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Thread: 2013 Spitfire

  1. #1451
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    2013 Spitfire

    Does anybody have pictures of the TK, mounted in the rim ? I'm also looking for a speedy grippy comfy light and stable rear tyre.


    Sam

  2. #1452
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    So this is a HD 2,35" next to a TK 2,2"
    2013 Spitfire-bild-1-1-.jpg2013 Spitfire-bild-2-1-.jpg
    Both are mounted on Flow EX rims with 25,5 mm inner with. They tyres are just huge. The HD is slightly bigger, but it is mostly the knobbies, the carcas/volume is about the same. I picked the 2,2 TK since the 2,4" version in 650b only comes with apex-sidewalls and weighs 990 gr. The 2,2" is just 770 g and still a very big tyre.

  3. #1453
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    Yes, the Conti TrailKing seems to have a higher than average Carcass. Really a big-volume-tire for a 2.2! Some riders have issues to fit the 26" TK 2.4 in all flip-chip-settings, even with the plenty of clearance the Banshees have ...

  4. #1454
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    I had a few issues with my Trail Kings front and back (black chilli compound 26x2.2 tubeless with stans)... I tore a few holes in them when riding sharp rocky terrain at speed (holes were too big for stans to seal a few times)... infact I had this issue the first day I rode them.

    I also ripped the rear tire clean off the rim on 2 occasions when cornering on berms at speed (squeeky bum moments!). I was running about 30psi on stans flow rims. I also had zero control in sloppy scottish mud.

    I switched to Hans Dampf front and back (pace star back and trailstar front) they have tons more grip and control (excpet in sloppy scottish mud, where even spikes seem to struggle), but are aso noticably slower rolling.
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  5. #1455
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    2013 Spitfire

    I started with HD front trailstar, rear pacestar and changed the rear to give a try to a aspect Purgatory Grid, which is heavier but rolls better than the HD. Now I'm looking for a tyre that accommodate trail conditions from hard dry to wet and slippery over medium... This with a comfy volume and less rolling resistance than the HD (which iI keep on the front).


    Sam

  6. #1456
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    I think the TK works well for that. I have however also punctured my tyre, but it seald up again. I only ride natural stuff and have never been on berms or such with the tyre. The however gripp very well on wet stuff like rock and roots and roll much better than the HD. Perhaps Maxxis Ardent would be another option?

  7. #1457
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    2013 Spitfire

    The options now are Conti Trail King Protection in 2.2, Maxxis Ardent EXO in 2.25 and eventually Specialized Purgatory Control 2.3....


    Sam

  8. #1458
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    Tires are a very personal thing I guess. From my experience most tires loose grip in wet conditions, except mud-tires, so there´s always a compromise ...
    The HansDampf 2.25 Trailstar is a good allround tire, same for the 2.35s. I don´t care too much about rolling resistance, so the Highroller II seems to be my alltime-favorite, as this one offers a little more grip (cornering, breaking) than the HansDampf, better sidewall protection, but slower rolling. As an alternative the Onza Ibex End/FR/DH is a pretty solid allrounder, too. No personal experience with Continental, but my buddies rave about the Conti Baron (26" only for now) or Schwalbes Magic Mary, if you want no-compromise grippy tires ...

  9. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Yes, the Conti TrailKing seems to have a higher than average Carcass. Really a big-volume-tire for a 2.2! Some riders have issues to fit the 26" TK 2.4 in all flip-chip-settings, even with the plenty of clearance the Banshees have ...
    I had issue's fitting the 26x2.4 in my Rune. It just wont fit in the highest setting and in the middle its really tight to get the wheel in and out. Slack it fits no problem though. Its a really tall casing, its taller and just as wide as my DHF 2.7 minion by a good bit. Me and Ferguson compared my 26x2.4 vs his 27.5 and there barely a half inch difference between them in height. Height is the issue not width at least in my Rune, I can fit finger pinky finger bewteen the tire and the chainstay.
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  10. #1460
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    NB: My local riding is in old deciduous woodlands on chalk downland - a mix of more natural trails and mostly unofficial DH runs with jumps, drops and berms. When I go further afield it's usually more trail centre / uplift venue stuff, so less mud and more rocks. How mud behaves with different tyres seems to vary a lot from place to place!

    I've been riding Rubber Queens aka Trail Kings for a couple of years now, on my 140mm hardtail for most of that time. Ran the UST black chili 2.2 up front through a spring and summer (X-King 2.4 out back), then put another on the rear and left it like that for over a year. The following Autumn I put a Butcher Control 2.3 up front before the hardtail became a mud bike wearing a Baron 2.3 front, XR-Mud 2.0 rear. Now the trails are drying out the Rubber Queens are back on the hardtail and I may leave them on all winter too.

    When the Spitfire got built up a couple of months back it had Trail Kings front and rear but it was very very muddy at the time and coming from riding the Baron on the hardtail I wanted something with more predictability and bite in the slop, hence a Magic Mary went up front.

    As a front tyre I find the RQ/TK has two limitations - when it's muddy/loose you have to crank it over onto the side knobs to get it to bite; and when it's really muddy the side knobs aren't tall enough to grip as well as something more spiky - but that would be a tall order! As a rear tyre those limitations aren't a problem at all because it lets the back end drift into the lean and when it finally runs out of grip it does so very predictably.

    The braking and driving characteristics are outstanding in anything but the silliest conditions - better than most XC/trail mud tyres. It drags pretty badly on tarmac, like the sticky rubber is glueing each tread block to the ground - but as soon as you get into dirt of any sort it rolls well, much better than the tread pattern, compound or grip levels would lead you to expect.

    The big carcass (2.2 actually measures 2.2" across the carcass) needs a reasonably wide rim to support it at the lower pressures it performs best with. Protection casing feels stiffer than UST but both are tough and UST feels really well damped on the back of a hard tail. The combination of the high volume and sticky compound makes it about as good as a tyre can be on wet roots. The weirdest pro of this particular black chili compound (they vary a lot, a black chili DH compound is nothing like a black chili XC compound) is how long lasting it is - even on the rear the tread lasts for ages and ages.

    Around here I might continue to run the Magic Mary as the Spitfire's front tyre right through the summer because our steep local DH runs go from muddy through grippy hardback to loose as hell dryness in a matter of weeks, so as a decent rider who unfortunately suffers crises of confidence I'm best off with a seriously knobbly front tyre that I can trust absolutely and that forgives me when I fail to crank it over and lean on it when riding steep downhill turns.

    I'd also seriously consider the Butcher Control 2.3 once that's out in 27.5 and the Continental Baron is great but only currently available in a 26 and porous as hell non-tubeless version.

  11. #1461
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    Just before first ride with 32-11/42 drivetrain

    2013 Spitfire-cam01055.jpg

  12. #1462
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    Looking relatively clean!


  13. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by threehats View Post
    Looking relatively clean!


    Hot!

    I'm gonna desticker my Flows when my stealth frame arrives.
    You not tempted?

  14. #1464
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    2013 Spitfire-photo_zps6703e7b0.jpg

    Can't wait to build this baby up

  15. #1465
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    First post here, couple of pics of my new spitfire. First ride out yesterday.











    Have to say I'm really impressed, just cut the steerer down and tweaked the saddle height and tilt since the pics so it's now finished. Can't wait to get out again on it.

    P.s. It was this thread that swung my decision towards the spitfire so a big thanks!

  16. #1466
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    I am about to pull the trigger on building up a Large 2014 Spitfire with CCDB-Air and RS Pike in 650b. I'm 5'11, 160 lbs, will be racing a bunch of enduro events (just for fun, not super competitive), and love riding jump lines.

    I'm loving the idea of a shorter travel bike that can take some abuse.

    I have read through a significant amount of this thread (probably 35%) but still have a few questions. Geometry, travel, and shock size differences aside, is there anything structurally different on the Spitfire than on the Rune? Tubing sizes/thicknesses, etc?

  17. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by dklopp View Post
    ... Geometry, travel, and shock size differences aside, is there anything structurally different on the Spitfire than on the Rune? Tubing sizes/thicknesses, etc?
    Judging by the look Rune and Spitfire share the same tubings, cnc/forged parts for the rear triangle. There seems to be a slightly difference in the triangle-geometry, as the Spitfire´s KS-Links are shorter (possibly different pivot-location), chainstay-length is slightly longer (2 mm). Therefore the Spitfire maybe offers a bit more room for 650B-tires with the 26" dropouts.
    The front-triangle shares the same head- and seattube, but top- and downtubes are different, more slimmer dimensions. Of course, I don´t know anything about the thickness of all tubings, or if there is a difference ...

  18. #1468
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    The rune and spitfire have different chainstays and forgings actually, subtle but different. And front triangles do indeed have different tripple butted tubing specifications and designs to match their puropses and predicted frame loadings, and there are a few other varioations too.
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  19. #1469
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    On the tyre front, I don't see mention of the Maxxis HR2, I found that they work fantastic pretty much everywhere - nice side knobs for the loose cornering, spaced well enough apart for mud and muck, compound that I tested provided excellent grip in wet and that was a single only, they have double and 3C which are even softer. For me if I didn't know what I was going to experience trail condition wise, the HR2 is it. Also compared to the HD, the knobs don't come shedding off in the rocks we have here - sharp coral/lime stone.
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  20. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    The rune and spitfire have different chainstays and forgings actually, subtle but different. And front triangles do indeed have different tripple butted tubing specifications and designs to match their puropses and predicted frame loadings, and there are a few other varioations too.
    NoStyle & builttoride,

    Thanks for the response. Since they look so similar, it is pretty tough for me to accurately nail down the differences without being able to see both in person - that info helps.

    I'm still thinking the Spitfire will be more suitable for the majority of my riding than the Rune, as I enjoy slaying single track with some jumps more than bombing dh runs. I'm just looking to make sure it will be stiff/strong enough. I have a few more days to think it over I guess. For reference, I am coming from a 2013 Covert and looking to try something new and in a larger frame size.

    Cheers!
    -Derek

  21. #1471
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    @dklopp:
    The real visuable difference in tubing between those two is the front-triangle, with slimmer gussets and toptube/downtube for the Spitfire. The rest (wall-thickness) is like Keith mentioned in the non-visuable details ...

    Thank god Jack Fogelquist is back on Banshee! Follow his Vids, to get an idea of what the Spitfire is capable!

  22. #1472
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  24. #1474
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    Good grief! winning on so many levels!

  25. #1475
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    This is one of the most aesthetically pleasing bikes I have seen in a while! The amount of blue:black is goldilocks.

  26. #1476
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    Awww. Thanks mates!

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/alykkegaard/13725414054" title="DSCN0059 by Andreas.lykkegaard, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5033/13725414054_26a5763674_b.jpg" width="800" height="410" alt="DSCN0059"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/alykkegaard/13725013255" title="DSCN0058 by Andreas.lykkegaard, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3754/13725013255_755ea1ac1f_c.jpg" width="800" height="340" alt="DSCN0058"></a>

  27. #1477
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    2013 Spitfire

    It is without a doubt the nicest spitfire I've ever seen. Your attention to detail is exquisite!

  28. #1478
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    Best colour frame for sure, although seeing how good the white forks look with the blue I'm beginning to wish I'd ordered my forks in white now

  29. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drea View Post
    Awww. Thanks mates!

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/alykkegaard/13725414054" title="DSCN0059 by Andreas.lykkegaard, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5033/13725414054_26a5763674_b.jpg" width="800" height="410" alt="DSCN0059"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/alykkegaard/13725013255" title="DSCN0058 by Andreas.lykkegaard, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3754/13725013255_755ea1ac1f_c.jpg" width="800" height="340" alt="DSCN0058"></a>
    Would it be possible for us to share a photo of this stunning build on our facebook page please?
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  30. #1480
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    Sure! Go ahead.
    Pick any photo you like https://www.flickr.com/photos/alykke...h/13725408064/

  31. #1481
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    Ok so I'm finally getting my headset fitted this weekend after my LBS ordered the wrong one despite me giving them the exact details of the headset I was after so can get the build started next week.

    Anyway I'm going 1x10 with a Raceface NW 34t upfront which will be bolted on to my existing Shimano SLX cranks which are from my double plus bash set up that's come off the old bike.

    My first question is will I need to buy shims for the chain ring or should it be fine without?

    Second question/observation is probably a stupid one but am I right to assume a normal chain works fine with a NW chain ring?

  32. #1482
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    It will fit fine without I run a raceface n/w 34t with slx double cranks , no issue what so ever

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  33. #1483
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    Thanks raggyone.

    Now I'm a complete novice when it comes to setting up gears, but I really want to do the whole build myself, so can anyone tell me what length chain I should be running on a 34t upfront with a 11-36t rear?

  34. #1484
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    I cant rememberchow long mine is. just remove all the air from the rear shock and cable tye the frame at full compression then wrap the chain round the chain ring and the biggest gear without going through the deraileur ,overlap by 2 links and cut it there

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  35. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drea View Post
    Sure! Go ahead.
    Pick any photo you like https://www.flickr.com/photos/alykke...h/13725408064/
    Thanks! Posted it up now. (sorry I don't know your name, but you can message me if you want it added)
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  36. #1486
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    Thanks raggyone, I'll give it a try and see how I get on, will that give me enough length when I then run it through the rear mech?

    Does anyone have any pics of the position their rear mech sits at when in the largest sprocket so I can compare once I've got mine set up.

    My set up will be a Zee rear mech, 11-36 with a 34t nw upfront.

  37. #1487
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    Same set up as me works great you may need to tweek the b limit screw a little more than you think when setting it up though to remove the slack from the chain when in the highest gear... it had me scratching my head for a few minutes when I built mine :P I will have a quick loom and see if I have any drive train pics now

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  38. #1488
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    This is with the rear shock uncompressed



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  39. #1489
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    Brilliant exactly what I was after. Interestingly I will also be running the same cranks too!

  40. #1490
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    Deeply in love with Spitfire
    2013 Spitfire-p4pb10827542.jpg

  41. #1491
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    Alright guys, you might be happy to hear that I got off the phone earlier with the LBS to order up the Spitfire frame and look at build options. The only (slight) issue is that the Large Raw 650b frame wont be available until late May...I honestly have no problem waiting because I think this will be a great bike, but sooner would always be appreciated .

    In all seriousness, I am beyond excited to get my first full custom build going. I'm thinking this will be a great bike for me, as I tend to prefer the feel of shorter travel bikes (should have never sold that Transition BottleRocket...).

    Also, I randomly saw a V2 Spitfire for the first time in person on the trail this weekend. While I was expecting the downtube to be a little larger in diameter, it really is a beautiful frame.

    And to the Banshee guys, I really enjoyed the "From Drawings to Reality" style of brand promotion. Being an engineer, I love seeing how things are designed, tested, produced, etc. It just makes the products seem more real and really showcases how much work goes into each design. I would like to see more of that in the future, if you can muster it up

  42. #1492
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenema View Post
    One of the best posts of all time. Thank you for sharing in your little mini adventure.
    What route did you take (specific trails) this looks like an awesome ride!

  43. #1493
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    I have finally gone from a V1 to a V2.

    2013 Spitfire-dsc06818-web.jpg2013 Spitfire-dsc06820-web.jpg2013 Spitfire-dsc06821-web.jpg2013 Spitfire-dsc06822-web.jpg2013 Spitfire-dsc06824-web.jpg

    Still got a few things to iron out: bar width, stem length and shock settings but even from the short carpark test I'm well stoked.
    Front end feels that bit longer and the rear end with the CCDBAir is lush.
    Can't wait to try her out on the trails

    I have noticed some differences in base tune from the CC site and the wee card I got with the frame.
    CC site: HSC 2, LSC 10, HSR 2, LSR 14
    Card: HSC 2, LSC 13, HSR 2, LSR 17
    Which one should I start with?

  44. #1494
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    I have a question for about fork choice. I want to buy a 27.5 pike but am limited by the funds i have from the sale of my 29er which is going towards the frame but am short a couple of hundred. My 26er hasn't sold and when i can find a buyer, it will fund a pike. So my question is is it better to buy a used 160mm travel 26 inch fork or buy a new 27.5 revelation. 90% of my riding will be on trails.

    My lbs doesn't sell banshee and we are trying to figure out how to order one. After reading through this thread, I think the best size for me will be an xl even though I am 6'2".
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  45. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by guswalls View Post
    I have a question for about fork choice. I want to buy a 27.5 pike but am limited by the funds i have from the sale of my 29er which is going towards the frame but am short a couple of hundred. My 26er hasn't sold and when i can find a buyer, it will fund a pike. So my question is is it better to buy a used 160mm travel 26 inch fork or buy a new 27.5 revelation. 90% of my riding will be on trails.

    My lbs doesn't sell banshee and we are trying to figure out how to order one. After reading through this thread, I think the best size for me will be an xl even though I am 6'2".
    Perosnally I would hold out for the pike, and buy a used fork for a nice price. The revelation isn't stiff enough to do the frame justice in my experience.... although that is a matter of opinion, and depends on how you ride.

    As for getting a frame, just have your dealer contact your regional distributor (see dealer section of our website for contact details) and I'm sure they will help make it happen.
    Last edited by builttoride; 04-18-2014 at 05:33 AM.
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  46. #1496
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    ok thanks. i think i will buy the pike and run 26" wheels until i can get a wheel set.
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  47. #1497
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    who is the distributor/ red flag in the us?
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  48. #1498
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    Trident Sports (yeah the red flag)... They are in Vancouver but distribute to USA.
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  49. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by AssPav View Post
    I have finally gone from a V1 to a V2.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    No wonder it looks too slack and low: the shock is faulty
    It's 20mm too short.
    I did remove all the air when I did the chain length and the shock went to full bottom out.
    Did I damage or unseat any seals or something when I did this?
    I cycled the shock a couple times as I filled it up to 200psi but it's still too short.
    Has anyone else had this issue?
    I had a day trip planned for its inaugural ride tomorrow
    Last edited by AssPav; 04-18-2014 at 06:24 PM.

  50. #1500
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    Releasing all the air shouldn't damage it. Is the shock new? Is the CS lever in the off position?

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