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Thread: 2013 Spitfire

  1. #51
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    The Shock-Size of the new Spittys is 7.875x2.25". Can´t quote for the V1, but seems like the i2i Length remains the same.

  2. #52
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    7.875x2.25" (40.0x8mm hardwear at the back, and 25.4x8.0mm hardwear at the front). Depending on what the shock was tuned for, it may have to be retuned to work well, but if it is a stock coil shock it should work well.
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  3. #53
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    Does anyone know what the reach numbers are on the spitfire and the rune? Mainly for the large and xl.

    Any chance on stealth reverb routing?

    These new bikes look very well thought out. I really like how there are some bikes out there now for people how like more agressive geo.

  4. #54
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    Reach of the Rune V2:
    S - 393 mm
    M - 417 mm
    L - 441 mm
    XL - 466 mm

    Reach of the Spitfire V2:
    S - 407 mm
    M - 427 mm
    L - 452 mm
    XL - 477 mm

  5. #55
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    Thanks for the quick response. I would have to say that the reach look spot on!

    Is there full geo posted anywhere?

  6. #56
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    Hi rich2007,

    please check out the Preview from Bikerumor.com and the attached File.

    Greetings
    NoStyle
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013 Spitfire-geo_spitfire_v2.jpg  


  7. #57
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    Has anyone seen the specs on the new Norco 650b trail bikes? Geometry real similar to Banshee but they keep 16.9" chainstays on the 650b bikes! As much as I love Banshee, I'm leaning towards the Norco's as they're dedicated 650b's and not a compromise version. Would love to hear some opinions on this. The one big thing the Spitty has going for it tho is that it fits me true to size (mediums are a bit longer than normal) whereas I'm back to being in-between sizes with the Norco Sight Killer B.

    For future Spitty's I'd like to see more focus on 650b and shorter chainstays as well as making the frame lighter. I think the frames are overbuilt now and could lose a good pound for general trail use. I have a AM/FR bike for that kind of riding; I just want to go fast on the Spitty! A carbon 650b with 16.9" chainstays would be ideal and compliment my AM/FR bike instead of overlapping with it like currently.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 09-13-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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  8. #58
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    Gman086,

    you hopefully have recognized that the Chainstays are growing within Framesize, from 419 mm (XS) to 436 (XL), plus the effective Seatangle is getting slacker (?!?). Also 66,5 HA is not really slack for a 160 mm Trailbike thats want to be "aggressive".

    I would like to say it this way: Respect to Norco to jump full on the 650B-thing - I really like the new Killer-B and Sight. But in all honesty, the new Prime and Rune are one of the most aggressive Trailbikes out there and Spitfire is the absolute Leader in it´s own class.
    I have the feel that Geometry of 650Bs have the same variables as 26er. Watch the all new hyped Scott Genius, Cube, Jamis or Rotwild - Chainstays up to 450 mm ...

    To the Frameweight: Why talking about making Frames lighter when there are no Production-Spittys yet?

    And to the last: Yes, I´m a big fan of short Chainstays, but having them around 437 - 441 mm for 650B is not that long. And judging by first Pictures there might be Clearance enough to shortem them slightly, but reasonable in the Future.

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  9. #59
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    I'd seen the production frame weights and they weren't that different from the 2012's as I recall but please do correct me if I'm wrong. And yeah, I know about the chainstays and for a Medium, which is all I care about, I like them to be at about 16.9ish. The new Range Killer B looks to be the bike I'm after right down to the longer top tube length and 45" WB. Will have to try both but that's gonna be hard considering I'd have to find a Spitty or Rune demo with the 650b dropouts and wheels. I guess the real question is whether 650b is for real or not?

    Have FUN!

    G
    Last edited by Gman086; 09-15-2012 at 12:58 AM.
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  10. #60
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    Ah ok, I have read a statement from Keith that the final Frameweights will be taken when the first Production-Frames are ready. As far as I know the Spitfire is going to hit Production in later Autum/Winter, because Prime and Rune will produced first, so no real weight-measurements at the moment besides the Prototypes I think ... ?

    On the other hand I am not sure to compare the Killer-B with the Spitfire, as the 650B Sight is the Spitty-Competitor while the Rune is in Competition to the Killer-B ...
    But yes, maybe there is a chance to make Custom-Dropouts for shorter Chainstays for 650B ...

    I´m not in the 29er-Boat and I´m not in the Boat saying 650B will kill the 26 - for me it is not "either-or" but "both". I will go with my current 26ers for the Park-Days and get a light 650B-Set for the Trail-Days.

  11. #61
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    So will all Geo adjustments be done via the dropouts? The specs show slack, neutral and steep but there's no adjustment holes for the shock.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by kburati View Post
    So will all Geo adjustments be done via the dropouts?
    Yes, Dropouts and Flip-Chips.
    Depending on the Flip-Chips the Dropouts are "higher" mounted to the Rear-Triangle, for a slacker Angle, or "lower" mounted, for the steeper Geometry.

    This Pic (from Eurobike) shows the neutral Setting:



    Greetings
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  13. #63
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    Some of these specs for the 2013 Spitfire are concerning. I ride a small 2011 Spitfire which fits well and the 2013 increases the WB from 43.4" to 44.6" and increases the Reach from 14.7" to 16". Both of those seem quite big jumps and if you opt for the 650b dropouts the WB goes all the way to 45". I too am liking the specs of the new Norco 650b bikes though for the life of me can't figure out how they get a 16.6" CS length on the small Site and Range Killer B with a 650b wheel/tire. The specs on the new Intense Tracer 275 also look more spot on for me with the 650b.

    Before the small 2010 Spitfire I had a medium Spitfire with a 44.9" WB and a 15.9" Reach and it was too long for me to handle though the TT was also 23" on that bike.

  14. #64
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    My personal opinion is:

    There is too much talking about single Parameters like Reach, short Chainstays or too slack Headangles only ... Geometry always works as a whole, it´s not that short CS alone are the guarantee for a flickable Ride, or slack HA are a hindrance on steep technical climbs. To me it seems like 650B-specific Geometry has the same variety as 26ers have for years now. I know that I would never ride Trailbikes with steeper than 66er HA and slacker than 74er SA again - that is why 90 percent of the current and new offerings are falling from my selection ...
    As far as I know the new Spitfire has one of the lowest BBs, one of the steepest SAs (that must be the reason for the increast Reach) and the slackest HA - especially when going 650B. Slightly longer, low and slack are the ingredients for a fast tackling and aggressive Ride. If you ride more tight technical Terrain look for something else. The Spittys CSs are nicely in the middle of the long Scott/Rotwild/Jamis 450 mm and the short Norco/RockyMountain +/- 425 mm ...
    If you think that the new Norcos or Intenses are more spot on than go for them and enjoy the Ride! To me it is really curious that for the slightly bigger 650B some offer shorter CSs, steeper HAs and shorter Wheelbase than their 26ers do have ...
    Last edited by NoStyle; 09-25-2012 at 10:35 AM.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    ...Slightly longer, low and slack are the ingredients for a fast tackling and aggressive Ride...
    Guess I'm not the typical Spitty rider as I prefer the tall setting on my 2011 Small which yields a 67.3 degree HA and a 13.5" BBH. Perfect for the technical terrain I ride, only thing I'd change on it would be a slightly shorter CS and a more active rear which the new one has but at the expense of a full inch longer WB which I guess is my biggest concern since to me TT is a more important measurement than Reach. Regardless I may end up trying it as my family is Banshee through and through, other than my 2001 RFX on DH days we have the following in our garage:

    2011 Banshee Spitfire Sm - mine
    2011 Banshee Amp Short - mine
    2010 Banshee Scythe Sm - my wife's
    2008 Banshee Rune Sm - my wife's
    2003 Banshee Morphine - my wife's

    and prior to the Spitfire I owned a Banshee Rampant for 3 years as my trail bike. Tons of fun but not a great climber nor good on long rides. Banshee's have been very good for us, I just hope the WB on the 2013 small won't be a problem for me since all the other measurements work out for me using the tall/steep setting. Every FS bike in my garage including the RFX is a bushings bike, I look forward to finally trying a FS with bearings.

  16. #66
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    What I mean is: There is a growing tendency in Geometry where AM/Enduro-Bikes get somehow streched out - slightly longer (WB), low (BB/Standover) and slack (HA). The Spitfire, as a Trailbike, seems to follow this Path more than the average Trailbikes do, regardless of the Wheelsize. For me personally this is great, as I am looking for some years now to get a Bike like this. I´m too not shure if this is perfect when things get tight and technical, but I am willing to give it a go.
    Best thing for you is to demo-ride, if possible, all the Bikes on your Shortlist and check how you feel to it. I have a 1,5 deg Angleset on my Wildcard which lengthen the WB around 12 mm and it was pretty subtle to feel. One inch longer Wheelbase is definitely noticable - the question is: How much really? Does it still work for you? And: You still have the option to 1.) steepen the Angles and slightly shorten the CS/WB and 2.) to go with 26ers again and having the short CSs/WBs possible.

    BTW: What an amazing Banshee-History

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    ...if possible, all the Bikes on your Shortlist and check how you feel to it...

    BTW: What an amazing Banshee-History
    That would be the day, unfortunately in Massachusetts I've never even seen a Banshee or Norco in a bike shop. EMS used to carry Rocky Mountain but I'm not sure that's really even on my shortlist since they're using bushings. Shops around here carry the traditional Specialized, Trek, Cannondale and Giant MTB. I'd have to live out west to be able to try any of the bikes I've purchased in the last 15 years before buying them.

    Thanks

  18. #68
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    You can rent a demo bike from Rbikes.com I believe and if you choose to buy the bike at the end of the demo you get the rental fee off your purchase I think.
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  19. #69
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    Hello again,

    I´m sorting which Parts to go on the new Spitfire. Is there any Info which Direct-Mount-Standard is used (S1,S2 or S3) and which Front-Deraileur is the right one, whether Sram or Shimano (Shimano XT prefered)?

    Thanks in advance
    NoStyle

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Hello again,

    I´m sorting which Parts to go on the new Spitfire. Is there any Info which Direct-Mount-Standard is used (S1,S2 or S3) and which Front-Deraileur is the right one, whether Sram or Shimano (Shimano XT prefered)?

    Thanks in advance
    NoStyle
    The front derailleur standard for all new KS link bikes is S3. You need to have a down pull or dual pull derailleur. Every SRAM front derailleur we have tested has worked well, although 2x10 have greater all round clearance. We will be producing a list of compatible Shimano options soon, as not all Shimano options are compaitble. So for now I would recommend going with SRAM.
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  21. #71
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    Thank you Keith.
    I am going 2x9 or 2x10 anyway and this will help alot. If you have any info which Shimano-Deraileurs will work properly I would be happy to know.

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  22. #72
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    I know the 2012 SLX FD doesn't work (body f derailleur is too bulky), but the XT one I tried was fine. We have been waiting for shimano to provide all derialleurs we have asked for to check, but haven't recieved them yet.... thanks for reminding me to chase that up.
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  23. #73
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    okay fine.
    when will the spitfire available in europa ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I know the 2012 SLX FD doesn't work (body f derailleur is too bulky), but the XT one I tried was fine. We have been waiting for shimano to provide all derialleurs we have asked for to check, but haven't recieved them yet.... thanks for reminding me to chase that up.

    Is it the same thing with the Rune?

    I bought a 2013 Shimano SLX FD M675 E Type.

  25. #75
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    I can't confirm yet, as I haven't checked production rune frames, the previous information is from checking on the prime, which is the frame that is most likely to have interference issues due to space restrictions on 29er. I'll ask Jay to check one of the Rune V2's that have just finished being assembled.
    Last edited by builttoride; 10-02-2012 at 06:02 AM.
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  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    I know the 2012 SLX FD doesn't work (body f derailleur is too bulky), but the XT one I tried was fine. We have been waiting for shimano to provide all derialleurs we have asked for to check, but haven't recieved them yet.... thanks for reminding me to chase that up.
    Thanks again Keith!
    Glad to know that the Shimano XT will work. If all information is confirmed that may be important to note on your Website/upcoming Geo-Charts/FAQs ...

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Thanks again Keith!
    Glad to know that the Shimano XT will work. If all information is confirmed that may be important to note on your Website/upcoming Geo-Charts/FAQs ...
    Yup, we will make sure that info is online when he have confirmed fits.
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  28. #78
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    when will the spitfire available in europa ? ??

  29. #79
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    I was told that the Spitfire will be available in January. Later it changed to a small amount that arrives at late Oktober. At least in Germany, but nothing confirmed yet ...

  30. #80
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    First spitfires should start landing in late November.
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  31. #81
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    @builttoride:

    Hi Keith!
    I am going to order the new 2013 Spitfire as replacement for the old one, have the reach changed for 2013?
    I have seen numbers that are the same as the old sizes, but on the previous page here i saw measurements suggesting a longer frame. I am confused as to which frame size to buy

    Previously on a large 2010 with 70 mm stem.

    Cheers!
    /mats

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by baramats View Post
    @builttoride:

    Hi Keith!
    I am going to order the new 2013 Spitfire as replacement for the old one, have the reach changed for 2013?
    I have seen numbers that are the same as the old sizes, but on the previous page here i saw measurements suggesting a longer frame. I am confused as to which frame size to buy

    Previously on a large 2010 with 70 mm stem.

    Cheers!
    /mats
    Hello,

    Yes reach has increased for the spitfire V2 for all sizes.

    The large Spitfire V2 has a reach of 452mm (22mm longer than old one), this is to move towards rider running slightly shorter stems and having a more aggressive riding position.

    The Effective top tube has remained the same but this number is a little misleading, as the higher you put the saddle the longer the top tube will feel as the actual seat post angle is slacker than the old frame due to bend in seat tube. So you will find that if you stick with a large frame, and switch to a 50mm stem, the the bikes geometry will feel very similar to your current bike.
    Last edited by builttoride; 10-07-2012 at 03:50 AM.
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  33. #83
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    Thanks!

    Longer Reach and shorter stem is the perfect evolution for this (my) bike, and I can keep going for the Large frame, I couldn't be happier!

    OT: That also means that I can buy a new Boxxer WC with direct mount for my other bike and us emy 50 mm Thomson stem on my new Spitfire...

  34. #84
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    Just for a tease.
    Picts are taken from Seb Kemps nsmb.com Article Banshee for 2013



    PS: Keith, do you have any measurements of the maximum Seatpost-Insertion for all Framesizes?

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Hello,

    Yes reach has increased for the spitfire V2 for all sizes.

    The large Spitfire V2 has a reach of 542mm (22mm longer than old one), this is to move towards rider running slightly shorter stems and having a more aggressive riding position.

    The Effective top tube has remained the same but this number is a little misleading, as the higher you put the saddle the longer the top tube will feel as the actual seat post angle is slacker than the old frame due to bend in seat tube. So you will find that if you stick with a large frame, and switch to a 50mm stem, the the bikes geometry will feel very similar to your current bike.
    Should´t it be 452mm istead of 542mm...

  36. #86
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    Hey NoStyle, don't worry about it, I'm a "Shimano guy" myself and wanted to initially use a Shimano FD, but with the troubles they gave on the pre-prodution Primes I got the SRAM and couldn't be happier I use a SRAM XO S3 designed for max 39t front ring, using a 24-38 ring combo and it shifts absolutely flawless and crisp on my Prime.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Thank you Keith.
    I am going 2x9 or 2x10 anyway and this will help alot. If you have any info which Shimano-Deraileurs will work properly I would be happy to know.

    Greetings
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  37. #87
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    Hi LyNx,

    Keith mentioned a few posts earlier that the Shimano XT Directmount FD works fine, so I go that. If not I will take SRAM, no doubt.

  38. #88
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    Yeah, saw that, just didn't know how easy it was to find and if it was more $$ etc. I held off on purchasing one for a couple months waiting and just stopping to change rings manually or do a toe drop, but once I got the FD I cursed myself for waiting so long, didn't want anyone else to do the same
    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Hi LyNx,

    Keith mentioned a few posts earlier that the Shimano XT Directmount FD works fine, so I go that. If not I will take SRAM, no doubt.
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  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalkhoffpink View Post
    Should´t it be 452mm istead of 542mm...
    Yes sorry, you spotted the 'deliberate' mistake :s
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    Hi Keith
    Would be great if you can help me please.
    I have a rampant long size, I use it for All mountain. I have a 130mm fork front and run a 40mm stem. I like the ways it feels but would like to have something with better grip in rocky conditions.
    I'm considering moving to the new Spitfire. I'm 1,75m. The 400mm reach of the rampant if perfect for me and I could easily go with a shorter top tube How does the geo compare between the rampant and the new Spitfire?
    What would be your recommendation? Should I go for a S or a M please?

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by meekkho View Post
    Hi Keith
    Would be great if you can help me please.
    I have a rampant long size, I use it for All mountain. I have a 130mm fork front and run a 40mm stem. I like the ways it feels but would like to have something with better grip in rocky conditions.
    I'm considering moving to the new Spitfire. I'm 1,75m. The 400mm reach of the rampant if perfect for me and I could easily go with a shorter top tube How does the geo compare between the rampant and the new Spitfire?
    What would be your recommendation? Should I go for a S or a M please?
    I think if you want the bike to feel flickable like your rampant, you would be better off with a small spitfire, as it has similar reach to your rampant. However if you want it for long days in the saddle, then I'd suggets that a medium might be a better fit for you if running the same cockpit. You'll have to choose which will be better for you based on what you want to use it for.
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  42. #92
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    Keith,

    I just read about the Banshee Upgrade Program on your blog and I have a few questions.

    Right now i'm quite happy with my Spitfire. After finding out it has a allignment problem in the rear triangle I macgyverd a solution which is looking to solve issues with annodising stripping off the axle('s). I've done a complete strip down this afternoon and there is only 1 minimal spot on the main pivot axle drive side bushing, pretty neat for a 2 year old bike with original bushings and only 1 lube service! This bike does get ridden hard through mud and snow so it's seen some propper abuse i'd say. I've only noticed very small play aswell, it isn't a horror bike like most.

    However I have this great dillema being sizing. I need to run a 400mm seatpost at almost minimal insert to achieve propper saddle height for longer xc ride's which I mainly do. Right now i'm looking to find a 450mm post to be save cause i'm afraid i'll damage the frame sooner or later, allthough I only weigh 80 kilo's rtr max.

    Basicly the new dillema is in the last line of the blog post. I'm LOVING the new Spitfire, it matches every aspect i've talked about in emails months ago. Well expect the ugly mainstream graphics but that can be rubbed off i've heard. Problem being i'm buying a house and can't keep spending huge €€€'s on my bike's anymore ( ) and the fact i'm perfectly happy with my current one I didn't consider switching to the V2 anytime soon.

    What would the xc performance be on the V2? I'm about 1.80 meters tall with medium length inseam. Right now on a medium Spitty with 60 mm stem and (very) high saddle to get the power down. Does the V2 have the same geo as far as the seatpost-heigt goes? Or would it be better? Or would I be better off on a large frame? I still want the awesome flickability and playability this bike has, I won't mind to compromise a tad bit on paddeling performance but not a whole lot. I'm afraid a large frame is a tad too big and spoils the fun so to say.

    Sorry for this long of a story but I hope you can understand my situation. Basicly I don't need to upgrade, but I don't want to miss out on a better bike for lower cost which pedals better. And aesthetically is like my wet dream, allthough you probably didn't need to know this. Cheers!
    Amplify Your ®ide!

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  43. #93
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    Thanks!!

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneeck View Post
    Keith,

    What would the xc performance be on the V2? I'm about 1.80 meters tall with medium length inseam. Right now on a medium Spitty with 60 mm stem and (very) high saddle to get the power down. Does the V2 have the same geo as far as the seatpost-heigt goes? Or would it be better? Or would I be better off on a large frame? I still want the awesome flickability and playability this bike has, I won't mind to compromise a tad bit on paddeling performance but not a whole lot. I'm afraid a large frame is a tad too big and spoils the fun so to say.

    Sorry for this long of a story but I hope you can understand my situation. Basicly I don't need to upgrade, but I don't want to miss out on a better bike for lower cost which pedals better. And aesthetically is like my wet dream, allthough you probably didn't need to know this. Cheers!
    What would the xc performance be on the V2? Pretty similar to V1. The pedaling is a little more neutral, so while antisquat is reduced slightly, I find that it is less tiring over rough terrain, so cancels out to give very similar overall pedaling efficiency.

    Does the V2 have the same geo as far as the seatpost-heigt goes? No, the seat tube lengths are the same.

    Or would I be better off on a large frame? It sounds to me like you are happy with the medium frame geometry, but wuld benefit from a longer seatpost. There is not an issue with running seatpost at minimum insertion for your weight. A lot of the adjustable seatpost options come in long lengths, which might be something to consider.
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  45. #95
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    Guyz,
    could anyone post any pics with new spitty color/graphic options?
    had found it for Rune (seems it'll be in blue/black/sliver). does it mean the same for spitfire or not?
    Thanks!

  46. #96
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    There you have it

  47. #97
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    @ baramats: so fast, soo good!

    well, we gonna get the red for spit and yellow for prime...
    would prefer vise versa, but who cares!

  48. #98
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    Has the HT changed at all for the Spitty or is it still 44/49? 44/56 just seems to offer more geo options

  49. #99
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    44/56 for the spitfire V2
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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  50. #100
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    If you want to run a single front chain ring, what is the smallest size you can run without getting kickback similar to V1 models?

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