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Thread: 2013 Spitfire

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    44/56 for the spitfire V2
    That is wonderful news

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave dweller View Post
    If you want to run a single front chain ring, what is the smallest size you can run without getting kickback similar to V1 models?
    I can't speak for the spitfire, but my KS-link prime has no detectable pedal feedback with a 30t single ring... also doesn't have that buttery rearward travel feeling that my old rune has.

    Maybe Keith can chime in, but my guess is that the KS link bikes have less of a rearward axle-path, compared to the old bikes, so pedal feedback won't be much of an issue.

  3. #103
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    It doesn't really work like that, it is a gradual scale. The smaller the chainring you use on any bike with chain stretch the more pedal kickback you will get (it's to do with the radius of the chainring). That said the pedal kickback is reduced about 40% on the spitfre V2 for any given chainring size, so you will feel less kickback for chosen chainring size. If you want an optimal chainring size for 100% antisquat the best range would be 32-34.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    If you want an optimal chainring size for 100% antisquat the best range would be 32-34.
    Which will be the optimal chainring size for Prime and Rune?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt06 View Post
    Which will be the optimal chainring size for Prime and Rune?
    Oh +1 for this question!

  6. #106
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    Prime optimal range is probably 28-32.

    Rune V2 optimal range is 32-36.

    But both depend on what pedaling characteristics you want, some may like smaller chainrings (more antisquat) and others larger (less pedal kickback).
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  7. #107
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    Ok, on my Spitfire V1 I found that it works best with 36t, but when I switched to 1x10 I had to take a 32t ring because 36 is to heavy to pedal. With the 32t I have noticeable pedal bob, but it's just acceptable.
    I'm now thinking about the drivetrain for my new Prime. I would like to go single ring on it too, but would need to take a uncommon (cranks?) 30t ring for same gear ratio than on my Spitfire.

  8. #108
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    There are 30 toot chairing options that fit on normal tripple chainring crank setup, if you read through some of the prime build threads I'm sure you will find the name, they seem to work well and offer. All new bikes have less pedal kickback (for a set chainring size) then the old frames, with prime being the least of them due to larger wheel size requiring a smaller chainring.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalcolmX View Post
    Gotta love it when a communicaty shares their knowledge! Thanks MalcolmX
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  11. #111
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    There is also one ring from extralite, but that one doesn't allow you to use some chain guides. (with 104 bcd)

    Also, take a look at the Sram cranks with removable spider. Some of them come with 29t rings, or you could just get the MRP bling ring.

    On top of those, there are 30t rings that mount on the granny spot of normal cranks (sjscycles, but there should be more). In this case, you should make the granny be inline with the middle ring, so some shaving of granny tabs is required (get an older crank set, just to give it a try. I got a used Deore hollowtech 2 for very cheap, and there were loads of truvativ holzefeller and similar cranks very cheap, that can withstand grinding the granny tabs easily)

  12. #112
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    New question here.

    If your interested, here the Spitfire V2 geometry.



    Have somebody an idea about the weight of the frame ?

  13. #113
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    Interesting that the 650b spitfire and a 29" prime have about the same wheelbase - the prime is even a little shorter @ 45.4

    (comparing mediums)

  14. #114
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    In the german mtb-rider-magazine is an Article about Wheelsize. Gravity-orientated riders comparing 26, 27,5 and 29er in various different Terrain. Testbikes were all Nicolai ACs. Funny thing was: Lots Geometry-Specs such as Wheelbase, BB-height, Bar-height, Saddle-Position and so on, were closely beeing similar through all sizes. Only Angles of ST, HA or Chainstaylength were different. So all Testriders, just by sitting on the Bikes, did not feel any difference - just the way how the Bike rode did that

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    In the german mtb-rider-magazine is an Article about Wheelsize. Gravity-orientated riders comparing 26, 27,5 and 29er in various different Terrain. Testbikes were all Nicolai ACs. Funny thing was: Lots Geometry-Specs such as Wheelbase, BB-height, Bar-height, Saddle-Position and so on, were closely beeing similar through all sizes. Only Angles of ST, HA or Chainstaylength were different. So all Testriders, just by sitting on the Bikes, did not feel any difference - just the way how the Bike rode did that
    Sounds like an interesting article. What conclusion did most of them come to in regards to what size they liked?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishtar View Post
    Sounds like an interesting article. What conclusion did most of them come to in regards to what size they liked?
    Yes indeed, the article was really interesting to read, as all Testers were true to 26 but tried to be as open minded as possible, havenīt ridden 29ers before, or were sceptical to the "new" 650B Size.
    I will give a more detailed conclusion from this Test during the Weekend ...

  17. #117
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    Yes, but remember that the Spitfire has 4 sizes that aren't as spaced apart as the Prime's 3, so the TT on the M Prime is 22.8", while on the M Spitfire it's 23.2", then take the couple degrees slacker HA and no surprise, but 26er die hards will still argue a 29er just can't handle the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    Interesting that the 650b spitfire and a 29" prime have about the same wheelbase - the prime is even a little shorter @ 45.4

    (comparing mediums)
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  18. #118
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    I read the article too, and I am not sure if everything was totally unbiased in respect to the bike company who delivered the test bikes.
    The 29" was claimed to be a liitle bit better and more comfortable on the uphills, but not that controllable.
    On the downhill surprisingly all bikes where at the same speed overall. The times from the test-track were nearly identical.
    So all in all the 650B is the golden middle and it depends on what you do with the bike…blablabla....nothing really new…

    In another test in a german magazine the Norco Killer B was rated worse than the 26" model.

  19. #119
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    Builttoride,

    Any way you can get a new 650B Spitfire down to Francois @ MTBR for the 650B bike shootout he's about to do? Even if it wasn't a full production model it would be nice to see the Banshee included with a disclaimer to test a production version later. So...what do you think???
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    ... Yes reach has increased for the spitfire V2 for all sizes.

    The large Spitfire V2 has a reach of 452mm (22mm longer than old one), this is to move towards rider running slightly shorter stems and having a more aggressive riding position.

    The Effective top tube has remained the same but this number is a little misleading, as the higher you put the saddle the longer the top tube will feel as the actual seat post angle is slacker than the old frame due to bend in seat tube. So you will find that if you stick with a large frame, and switch to a 50mm stem, the the bikes geometry will feel very similar to your current bike.
    Dear Keith,

    do you have any correct/concrete measurements due to this "growing" effective Toptube? How much more does it eventually strech-out in high Saddleposition?

    The reason why I ask:
    I am 184 cm tall, inseam is about 86-87 cm and Iīm always torn between the Sizes Medium and Large. Usually I feel totally at home on M when it comes to technical Riding and deal with the shorter Toptubelength for ideal Pedalling. I would like to have a slightly longer Toptube towards L for more Trailriding in the Future, but want to have the maximum Seatpostlength of M. Coming from a M Wildcard and comparing Geometry to a M Spitfire I immediately decided on Size M again, but I am a bit unsure if a large Spitfire will be a better fit, knowing that a 47 cm Seattube with raised Toptube is too high for my liking.

  21. #121
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    Easiest way to think abut this is tha roughly for every 15mm the saddle is above the ETT line (horizontal to top dead center of headtube) the cockpit feel will increase by about 1mm over the ETT. There are a lot of bikes out there that are like this, but the manufacturers don't mention it.

    Nostyle, it sounds like a medium would be best fit for you probably, but only you can decide for sure.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Easiest way to think abut this is tha roughly for every 15mm the saddle is above the ETT line (horizontal to top dead center of headtube) the cockpit feel will increase by about 1mm over the ETT. There are a lot of bikes out there that are like this, but the manufacturers don't mention it.

    Nostyle, it sounds like a medium would be best fit for you probably, but only you can decide for sure.
    Thank you Keith!
    I think for me this is a very welcome Feature, as the effective Toptube will be around 595 mm, maybe a tad more when sitting high on the Saddle. That is close to my "Dream-Toptube-Length" of 600 - 605 mm. I will stick to the Medium now, as the Spitfire is already longer (+ 18 mm Reach) than the M Wildcard and a Wheelbase of 118 cm (26") / 119 cm (650B) seems pretty long for me. Plus having the most possible Standover-Hight for steep and technical Terrain - sounds pretty good for a Bike that is going to be ridden everywhere!

    Many Greetings from Cologne, Germany
    NoStyle

  23. #123
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    builttoride, that's probably not your responsibility, but when the final prices and order (or pre-order) options on new spit/rune shall be released?
    our local dealer in Russia just says that Banshee ignores his questions on that topic, and the community is going to rage on that
    Could you please update with latest info? please PM if it's not a public information.
    thanks!

  24. #124
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  25. #125
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    Keith,

    Have you had a chance to ride the spitty or rune with 650B wheels? How does it feel compared to 26"? I'm VERY interested in trying 650B, and the fact that the spitty has the option is awesome. Any feed back from you or some of the other prototype testers would be appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Chris

  26. #126
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    Hey Chris, we have some professional reviews in the pipeline that will be reviewing the bikes in both 26" and 650B, and hopefully at least one comparing wheel sizes on the bike with everything else equal.

    My opinion of 650B is that it again comes down to personal preferance with same pros and cons of any wheel size. I can see 650B becoming a popular option for trail / all mountain riders once component options catch up.

    Selecting wheel size really is about optimal compromise.
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  27. #127
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    Little freaked out on the wheelbase

    Gotta say this new bike looks great and the KS link seems to be the real deal in performance and I can use my 650 wheels . While most seem to like the low/slack setting option I would most likely use the high/steep setting for New England tight rocky conditions. I want a bike I can pedal through rock gardens without constant hits, and climb up and over the technical rock and root infested trails we have here. That's the most important to me. Descending is really the least of my concerns and I already know this bike is more than capable and well, gravity will get you there one way or another.

    So (based on a large frame) the wheel base on this thing is looooong. Longer than most 29'ers 2.1" longer than my current 2011 Jamis Dakar 650. 2.4" longer than a Mojo HD 140, and 1-1.5" longer than almost any other 650B bike that's available (or will be). Only the new Scott is close @ .1" shorter.

    Can this bike be nimble, agile, lively and work in my conditions or is it just gonna feel like a sled that's always waiting to go down hill and fight me on the gnarly climbs? 30+ years of dirt bikes I know a long WB can help with climbing and keep the front end down. Perhaps the Spitty would be this way? But at the expense of agility and liveliness?

    I think I get the reach/stack thing and I would use a 50-60mm stem from my current 75mm.

    Me I'm 6' exact with 34.5" inseam so I assume a large like my current bike. Also I hate tons of seat post showing (current is 9.5") which a medium would force me to do. Below you can see how different the bikes are so why I'm somewhat apprehensive. This is a size Large with 650B wheels.

    Jamis Dakar -------------- Spitty
    Stack 23.5--------------------23.2
    Reach 17.125----------------17.8
    Top Tube 23.7---------------24.2
    Stem 75mm-------------------50-60mm (I assume to match Jamis reach?)
    WB 44.76--------------------- 46.8
    HA 69----------------------------67, 66.5, 66
    Head tube 5.5-----------------4.5
    Spacers 20mm---------------???
    SA 73 degrees---------------74.5, 74, 73.5 ESA
    Seat post 18------------------18.5
    BB height 13.4 (bad)------13.9, 13.65, 13.4
    CSL 17.7------------------------17.2, 17.3, 17.4

    Thoughts and input please and getting a demo ride is most likely not remotely possible with no dealers anywhere close.
    Last edited by skidad; 11-18-2012 at 10:09 AM.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  28. #128
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    I've owned the V1 spitfire for 2.5 years and have ridden it long and hard. It is setup primarily for XC due to the type of terrain for my locale. It is about 25-26 lbs. The geo is great as an all around bike. While the HA is slackened which helps the descent, it does slightly hinder the climbs. The SA is steepened and this helps to put you into a more forward climbing position while seated during climbs. So the SA in my opinion helps factor out the slack HA for climbs.
    One of my biggest complaints about the bike is it is kind of a dead fish in terms of liveliness. Manuals are near impossible. The front end does not like to be off the ground. "Popping off" jumps is impossible.You can feel the length of the wheelbase in air and it feels flexed with no stabilization. With forks less than 140mm the BB height causes some pedal strikes. Not much for me because I'm running 165mm length crank arms, but I would like to go longer in crankarm length since I do a lot of pedaling. The BB height does help in terms of cornering and getting low to the ground and hugging the turns is what it likes to do. As does any bike with a BB height <13.5".
    The spitfire is essentially a sled that likes to carve the trails. It performs great when on the ground but agile and liveliness is lacking. I would hate to try the spitfire at a park with any jumps or doubles with gaps. It flexes so terribly. I am suffering from framewear in the rear triangle, mind you.
    The new spitfire will have a shorter chainstay, but longer top tube I believe. It will be interesting to see if the this changes the maneuverability. I think the long wheelbase is killing any agility the bike could have otherwise. It would be nice to have some way to further shorten the chainstay length thereby shortening the wheelbase as well.
    Did the wheelbase on the V2 get shorter, longer or stay the same? I haven't perused the numbers, but on the website and forums there are several different versions and I'm not sure which one is V1 and what's V2 measurements.
    Will the V2 have the frame adjustablity at the shock? The steep setting is a very odd geo once you have used it in the slack setting.
    If Banshee could make a Spitfire that rides like the rampant, but with longer travel then they would rule the market. That bike is radness. i only wish it had a little more travel and a 142x12mm TA.

  29. #129
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    Here is the Geometry of the V2 Spitfire again:



    In my opinion every Bike with this "new-school-geo" do have (much) longer Wheelbase - that comes from the Fact that Seatangles are getting steeper, slightly longer Toptubes (for shorter Stems and wider Bars) and therefor longer Reach. Slacker Headangles too, but mostly shorter Chainstays as previous Models.
    This gives you a more "foreward-Position" on the Bike - in my opinion a great benefit for both Climbing and Descending. So hiawatha-de, all of what you have requested has been adressed in the V2. Geometry is now adjustable via Flip-Chips in the Dropouts and there are three Rear-Axle-Standards to choose, plus 140 mm Reartravel. Will it ride differently than the V1? We will see, but Iīm sure it has improved in every way ...

    By the way Keith - NoStyle and Sizing and such ... :
    Was still a little unsure due to Framesizing, so I measured myself several times again, as my Body-measurements were done when I was 21 years of age. I am now 180/181 cm tall, with an inseam of 85-86 cm.
    Donīt know if this is a "bad" news or a "sad" news, because now I am 45 years of age ... still getting older ... and ... still shrinking.
    The good thing: That should set me better to fit a Medium Spitty, as this one is going to be my Do-it-All-Bike for both climbing and descending, and everything where a nimble and playfull handling is preferred.

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  30. #130
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    So are the chainstays adjustable via the dropout chips? Or, does the chainstay length change with the adjustable geometry at the shock eye?h

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    In my opinion every Bike with this "new-school-geo" do have (much) longer Wheelbase - that comes from the Fact that Seatangles are getting steeper, slightly longer Toptubes (for shorter Stems and wider Bars) and therefor longer Reach. Slacker Headangles too, but mostly shorter Chainstays as previous Models.
    This gives you a more "foreward-Position" on the Bike - in my opinion a great benefit for both Climbing and Descending. So hiawatha-de, all of what you have requested has been adressed in the V2. Geometry is now adjustable via Flip-Chips in the Dropouts and there are three Rear-Axle-Standards to choose, plus 140 mm Reartravel. Will it ride differently than the V1? We will see, but Iīm sure it has improved in every way ...
    Well said. Keith also did a good job of explaining this in the Rune thread (I think that's where I saw it, anyway).

    This geometry is the way forward. I have one of the pre-production Primes and have been riding that since March. The advantages described are real. My Prime outclimbs my hardtail (a Yelli Screamy), and despite the 3" longer wheelbase it gets around the same tight switchbacks with no drama. And the downhills? Well...

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha-de View Post
    So are the chainstays adjustable via the dropout chips? Or, does the chainstay length change with the adjustable geometry at the shock eye?h
    Hi hiawatha-de,

    please check out some previews and Pictures that are linked here a few pages further, so you can see and clearly understand the new Features the KS-Link gives to the Runes, Primes and Spitfires.
    The Geometry is now adjustable through the new designed Dropouts, not the Shock-Mounts anymore. The Chainstaylength is NOT adjustable! Itīs very slightly growing length comes from the more rearwarded Axlepath the slacker the Geometry is set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    PM sent
    Cannot answer in PM due message counter, so: Thanks a lot!
    that gave me some ideas.

  34. #134
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    Ah, the suspense is killing me. When's the soonest this frame will be available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead-Sled View Post
    Ah, the suspense is killing me. When's the soonest this frame will be available?
    Yup, me to...then we have to all go through the same sizing dilemma like in the Rune thread

    Here is the latest info I got from Banshee on Nov. 6th. Could be a beautiful Christmas

    The first Spitfires should be leaving the factory in 2 or 3 weeks. Add another 3 weeks on the boat to get to North America & you should be able to get one before Christmas.

    Cheers

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    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    V2 improvements

    Keith,
    Can you give us a brief description of how the V2 will ride given its new improvements? Also, what is the increase in weight for the overall frame? Can you run the same headset as the V1? The banshee website hasn't been updated to determine this info. thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha-de View Post
    Keith,
    Can you give us a brief description of how the V2 will ride given its new improvements? Also, what is the increase in weight for the overall frame? Can you run the same headset as the V1? The banshee website hasn't been updated to determine this info. thanks.
    The post 7 posts ago on this very page will show you the headtube specs
    Seems you can't use the V1's lower headset.
    Have a read through this entire thread for more info.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha-de View Post
    Keith,
    Can you give us a brief description of how the V2 will ride given its new improvements? Also, what is the increase in weight for the overall frame? Can you run the same headset as the V1? The banshee website hasn't been updated to determine this info. thanks.
    The spitfire V2 specs will appear on the website when the frames start shipping out. Weight will be a touch heavier than V1, but the frame is stiffer, has more travel, and modilar dropouts dropouts. When production frames are ready we will weigh one and post photo on website. The V2 has a different standard headset... tapered 44/56.

    In terms of balance, geometry and pedaling efficiency the spitfire V2 feels very similar to the V1 despite the exra 13mm of travel. However the suspension is definitely more supple and controlled when riding ard through rough stuff, and so holding the line is easier and you have noticably more traction when railing round sketchy corners and better control over rocks and roots. The V2 is more playful and easier to pop off things, bunny hop, manual and play around on the trail. The fun factor is turned up to 11!
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    Are alot of riders waiting on the new Spitfire planning to try out a 650b for a front wheel & 26" on the rear? Seems like that would be fun.

    Looking forward to seeing the new builds next month!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitewerks View Post
    Are alot of riders waiting on the new Spitfire planning to try out a 650b for a front wheel & 26" on the rear? Seems like that would be fun ...
    Me personally I will not mix Wheelsizes anymore. First ride is going to be with 26 and switch to 650B when more Forks than Fox 34er or Rock Shox Revelation (650B, 150/160 mm Travel) are available.

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    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
    Good news! Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    Yeah the Prime is comparible to the Rune more than the Spitfire. Perhaps the bike that you are waiting on is the one that you'll see a proto of next spring.
    Wow! You guys will have quite the revised lineup.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    @builttoride: how does the new Spitfire compare to the Prime? Not sure if I want to go back to 26 inch wheels, but the Prime seems a bit heavy for my tastes (closer to the Rune than the Spitty, I'd say). Are you planning to introduce a more "trail-oriented" 29er? Thank you.
    Maybe a new Spitfire with 650B wheels? I've just gotten in 2 rides on some new Schwalbe NN 650B tires and wow, nice! These things measure almost a full 28" tall and I'm loving the ride and traction on the rocks we have here.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Maybe a new Spitfire with 650B wheels?
    I'm not totally convinced of the benefits of "mid-sized" wheels. Or, better: I think that could have been a good solution if we were to start mountain bike development from scratch, but at this point I think that 650b offer just a small advantage over 26" while limiting your choice of rims, tires, forks... To be honest I never tried a 650b bike so I could be wrong, but for now I'd like to focus on 26" and 29" (I reckon both formats have their pros and cons). In a couple of years we'll see if the manufacters want us to ride 650b bikes...

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by the evil bunny View Post
    I'm not totally convinced of the benefits of "mid-sized" wheels. Or, better: I think that could have been a good solution if we were to start mountain bike development from scratch, but at this point I think that 650b offer just a small advantage over 26" while limiting your choice of rims, tires, forks... To be honest I never tried a 650b bike so I could be wrong, but for now I'd like to focus on 26" and 29" (I reckon both formats have their pros and cons). In a couple of years we'll see if the manufacters want us to ride 650b bikes...
    You obvioulsy don't follow the 650B news and trends or you would know all the forks, tires and rims that are, or will be available very soon. And more coming. I've been on this bandwagon for 2+ years now and the benefits are real. A 28" tire like the the new NN is approaching a smaller 29" tire FWIW.

    Have a look at this link from the Taichung Bike Week in Taiwan 27.5 Developing News in the 650B forum.

    From Taichung Bike Week in Taiwan 27.5 Developing News
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  48. #148
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    Super excited for this bike, though I wish the Spitty got the blue instead of the Rune. Everything is exactly right - the medium sounds like it will fit me like a glove, the head angle is sweet, the 16.9" seat tube means I can get the seat low for AM-trials...

    Quick question though builttoride - would reaming the seatpost out to 31.6 be possible? I hate to give up my Reverb that's been flawless. I guess on that note, do you know offhand the maximum insertion on the medium? I've got the longer Reverb and hope to be able to slam it.
    Last edited by LostBoyScout; 11-22-2012 at 12:17 AM.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    You obvioulsy don't follow the 650B news and trends or you would know all the forks, tires and rims that are, or will be available very soon. And more coming. I've been on this bandwagon for 2+ years now and the benefits are real. A 28" tire like the the new NN is approaching a smaller 29" tire FWIW.
    Now that the Fox 34 forks, ZTR Flow rims, and Schwalbe Nobby Nic and Hans Dampf all come in 27.5 I'm completely covered. Not sure if I'll do it but all the tools are there.

  50. #150
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    @ Keith:

    Due to the Geometry-Chart the Spitfire is compatible to Forks with maximum 160 mm Travel and ZeroStack-Headset. I suspect that a taller Fork with 170 mm will void the Warranty.

    My Fork-Choice isnīt clear yet. Maybe I can get a Deal on a 160 mm 650B 34er Fox, which for sure does have a taller A-2-C (around + 10 mm?) than a 160 mm 26" 34er Fox. I too plan on running an Angleset, which must have a external lower Cup because of Tapered Steerer. Unfortunately the new Forks are Tapered Steerer only and that gives some limited Choices. All of this will add height.

    Does this affect the Warranty? Is it straight max. 160 mm Travel and ZeroStack, regardless of Wheelsize? Does the Warranty, and more important, the Construction and durability of the Spitfire allow for 160 mm plus External lower Cup?

    Many Greetings
    NoStyle

  51. #151
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    Does anyone even make an EC56 lower cup/bearing setup? Seems when you get to that size it was designed around the use of ZS lower.

    Works components has an 1 or 1.5 degree angle set for a tapered fork with a ZS lower and EC upper.

    So you're gonna run the bike in it's slackest setting, a longer fork and an angle set to slack it out even more

    On another note I'm gonna be demoing a Prime today It'll be my first ride on a Banshee and am really looking forward to trying the new KS suspension.

    NEW - 1 0 Degree EC44 - ZS56 - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube Forks

    NEW - 1 5 Degree EC44 - ZS56 - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube Forks
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  52. #152
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    The warranty for the spitfire covers up to 160mm travel forks with all headset options.
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  53. #153
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    Keith, thanks for your Info.

    Skidad, thank you too. These Works Components must be the ones GrazerTourer has mentioned - good to know.
    And: Sorry mate, I havenīt had much time the last few days, but I will answer your PM asap!

  54. #154
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    Sorry if this was already posted, but what size shock is the new Spitty running?

  55. #155
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    7.875 X 2.25"

    Listed in the specs near the bottom 1 page back
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    Sorry if this was already posted, but what size shock is the new Spitty running?
    This one should help:

    http://forum.velovert.com/uploads/ve...605_150246.jpg

  57. #157
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    Looks like the same size the old Rune ran so you might find a few good deals on some Elkas or other shocks as people go from the Rune V1 or V1.5 to the V2.

  58. #158
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    builttoride, can you say anything on 140 mm fork on v2 stitfire?

    currently owns HT with marz 44/140mm, so i'm thinking on such variant until getting new 1ne.

    thanks!

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logoffski View Post
    builttoride, can you say anything on 140 mm fork on v2 stitfire?

    currently owns HT with marz 44/140mm, so i'm thinking on such variant until getting new 1ne.

    thanks!
    Personally I'd recommend a 160mm fork for the spitfire to really get the most out of it (150mm if more XC focused). A 140mm Marz44 has an axle to crown height of 507mm I believe, which is certainly on the short end for this frame. With the 44 the head angle will be steepened by about 1.5 degrees for each setting (so 67.5-68.5) which means you will loose that slack geometry confidence, and the BB will drop about 10mm. You could slacken the head angle out with an angle set, but that would just drop the BB further. So while it will work, I'd certainly recommend a fork with an a-c in the 520-545mm range.

    If you do stick with the 44, I would recommend running an external lower headset cup to help raise the stack height a bit.

    #edit# I just realised that the a2c on the 44 depends on what model and also what year you have, you can find the information for your fork here Tenneco Marzocchi Suspension
    Last edited by builttoride; 11-28-2012 at 03:07 AM.
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    mine one is 44 RC3 Ti / 2010 and it has "fork lenght" (hope that IS AtC ) 514mm. i had already thought on extended lower cup. some kind of cane creek S3 +, i can't post a links

    Fur sure that is subject to change (would prefer 55 RC3 Ti 'cause i'm in love with those plushiest coil RC3 series) but it's not so easy to find one. There are some offers but 1.5 steerer is uncompatible with spitty

  61. #161
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    You can run a 1.5 steerer on the spitfire, but will require a top cup headset that is not very common (I believe that nukeproof make one tho).
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  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    You can run a 1.5 steerer on the spitfire, but will require a top cup headset that is not very common (I believe that nukeproof make one tho).
    Well yeah, but it's also requires a stem for 1.5.
    But thanks for idea in any cases!

    still waiting for official release from our Banshee dealer

    ADD:
    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride View Post
    (I believe that nukeproof make one tho).
    44EEOS
    Ø50x44mm
    1.5" steerer fork in 44mm dia headtube with external cups
    S.H.I.S. Top Cup | Bottom Cup: EC44/38.1 | EC44/40

    49EEOS
    Ø56x49.57mm
    1.5" Steerer fork in 1.5" Headtube with external cups
    S.H.I.S. Top Cup | Bottom Cup:EC49/38.1 | EC49/40

    1st one as far as i understood?
    Last edited by Logoffski; 11-29-2012 at 06:52 AM.

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logoffski View Post
    mine one is 44 RC3 Ti / 2010 and it has "fork lenght" (hope that IS AtC ) 514mm. i had already thought on extended lower cup. some kind of cane creek S3 +, i can't post a links

    Fur sure that is subject to change (would prefer 55 RC3 Ti 'cause i'm in love with those plushiest coil RC3 series) but it's not so easy to find one. There are some offers but 1.5 steerer is uncompatible with spitty
    I ran a marz 44 RC3 TI MY2010+external lower cup when i first got my spitfire V1. Lots of pedal strikes and a front end much lower than i like.

    Now I run a Marz 55 RC3 TI MY2010+external lower cup. This how ever gets the front end a bit high but way better tho, and a lot less pedal strikes!

    Just palced an order for the new Spitfire should be good!

    Regards

    Christian

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishtar View Post
    Looks like the same size the old Rune ran so you might find a few good deals on some Elkas or other shocks as people go from the Rune V1 or V1.5 to the V2.
    SPAM

    Elka Stage 5 w/ 450lb Ti Spring 7.875" x 2.25" - Pinkbike

    /SPAM

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendMKI View Post
    Just palced an order for the new Spitfire should be good!
    are u gonna build it with 55 rc3 or gonna get another fork?

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logoffski View Post
    are u gonna build it with 55 rc3 or gonna get another fork?
    No, I am going to get a BOS Deville for my new build!

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendMKI View Post
    No, I am going to get a BOS Deville for my new build!
    Don't do it!

    When I got my Cotic this summer (with a Stoy as an upgrade), not only did BOS send the wrong weight spring, they'd fitted offset bushings. When I contacted R53 I found that they didn't deal with BOS anymore and had to go to BOS direct.

    BOS could apparently not care less about having me as a customer. They weren't interested in swapping or even just taking back the spring and bushings, the only correct weight spring they had was used, but I couldn't have a discount, even used it was full price or nothing.

    When it turned up not only was it used (visible wear, numbers/markings long gone), it was the wrong length and didn't fit the shock. So I called quits and got a Manitou spring.

    On the phone to them the whole impression I got was that I was some kind of annoyance for daring to ask for what I had paid for, nevermind that the shock was nearly Ģ600. It's gone on Ebay since then, on a Monarch RT3 now and it's really not that much better on a short travel bike.

    By contrast, I had great service from Magura this summer when the spring on my 2009, second hand Thors went pop.
    To quote Mike from Magura UK, "I've checked the serial numbers on your fork and that one came from a faulty batch, we've got a few spare springs so you can have one as a sort of good will type... thing,"
    I told them it was second hand, they still repaired it free (and I ended up buying a service anyway because I figured it could use some love).

    So, I strongly advise against BOS, it isn't worth the hassle. I'm happy to recommend Magura though.

  68. #168
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    The sizing still has me a bit boggled... I'm 180cm, and currently ride a large Spitfire with a 50mm stem and the seat fairly forward on a KS supernatural post. I see the reach on the medium gen 2 spitfire is only 3mm shorter than the gen 1 large so it seems like to keep a similar feel for the attack position I would want to drop down a size. I'm worried that going to a medium will create too cramped of a cockpit when seated since ETTs haven't grown, but like Keith mentioned previously perhaps the bent seat tube will cancel this out. Anyway, the medium seems really small for someone my height, but maybe I'm just too old skool. Anyone able to give some insight?

    As an aside, this is my second Banshee (had a Rune previously) and the second one that chews up pivots and wears the pivot faces despite careful frame assembly, but I just love the ride of the damned things. It's like some horrible love/hate relationship with a series of drug-addicted strippers or something.

    For people complaining about a lack of playfulness, I think you may have your bars too low. I know I had my setup pretty slammed and felt like the bike was too dead. I put some 38mm rise sunlines on there and the bike came alive on the descents with no real negative impact on the climbs - still leaning forward the same, my hands are just in a different spot.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by FullMonty View Post
    The sizing still has me a bit boggled... I'm 180cm, and currently ride a large Spitfire with a 50mm stem and the seat fairly forward on a KS supernatural post. I see the reach on the medium gen 2 spitfire is only 3mm shorter than the gen 1 large so it seems like to keep a similar feel for the attack position I would want to drop down a size. I'm worried that going to a medium will create too cramped of a cockpit when seated since ETTs haven't grown, but like Keith mentioned previously perhaps the bent seat tube will cancel this out. Anyway, the medium seems really small for someone my height, but maybe I'm just too old skool. Anyone able to give some insight?
    I'm inclined to suggest that a medium might be better fit for you since you ran the saddle forwards in the rails on your old large. The cockpit ends up being a bit longer (around 5-10mm, depends on final saddle height) when you have saddle up at full height. so if you run the saddle in middle of rails then I think you'll end up with about the same cockpit length and will have the ergonomic fit that you seem to like which isn't so reached out. thats my $0.02
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  70. #170
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    @ FullMonty
    I am 180/181 cm tall with 85/86 cm inseam and, coming from a medium Wildcard, decided finaly to go with a medium Spitfire V2, at least after some communication with Keith.
    I always feel good on medium Sizes, never cramped but upright enough to go with 50 mm Stem and 38 mm Riser Bars with no Spacers, to have a nice and controlled Handling. Although I could go with large too ...
    I can only afford one Bike which has to excel in all Areas, so in the end I like to have a more BMXish and playfull Feel overall, plus the needed Benefit of great Standover and a not overly long Seattube, which is mostly the Dealbreaker for me with large Sizes.
    Letīs say I am old skool because Iīm used to shorter Freeridebikes ...

  71. #171
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    I am excited for the Spitfire, I think it will be a great Super D/Enduro race rig. I would be torn on which shock to run, does anyone have an opinion on which shock they plan on running and why?

  72. #172
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    If I wanted my frame without a rear shock so I could order one from XFusion what tune is recommended?

  73. #173
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    I am planning on running the DB air for its tunability. The Team Geronimo guys were running them last year on the 2012 Spitfires and used them for everything from dual slalom events to trail riding to big mountain enduro events with a few tweaks to the set-up to best suit each particular event or ride. I feel like the versatility of the DB air makes it the best choice in my book.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brokepeddler View Post
    If I wanted my frame without a rear shock so I could order one from XFusion what tune is recommended?
    I'd ask the xfusion guys this, they have the information from me to custom tune already.
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  75. #175
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    That's good to know. Sounds like it would be worth the extra cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    Don't do it!

    When I got my Cotic this summer (with a Stoy as an upgrade), not only did BOS send the wrong weight spring, they'd fitted offset bushings. When I contacted R53 I found that they didn't deal with BOS anymore and had to go to BOS direct.

    BOS could apparently not care less about having me as a customer. They weren't interested in swapping or even just taking back the spring and bushings, the only correct weight spring they had was used, but I couldn't have a discount, even used it was full price or nothing.

    When it turned up not only was it used (visible wear, numbers/markings long gone), it was the wrong length and didn't fit the shock. So I called quits and got a Manitou spring.

    On the phone to them the whole impression I got was that I was some kind of annoyance for daring to ask for what I had paid for, nevermind that the shock was nearly Ģ600. It's gone on Ebay since then, on a Monarch RT3 now and it's really not that much better on a short travel bike.

    By contrast, I had great service from Magura this summer when the spring on my 2009, second hand Thors went pop.
    To quote Mike from Magura UK, "I've checked the serial numbers on your fork and that one came from a faulty batch, we've got a few spare springs so you can have one as a sort of good will type... thing,"
    I told them it was second hand, they still repaired it free (and I ended up buying a service anyway because I figured it could use some love).

    So, I strongly advise against BOS, it isn't worth the hassle. I'm happy to recommend Magura though.
    Sorry to hear you had isues dealing with BOS.

    One of my team mates runs BOS fork and shock and newer had any problems. He has had his fork rebuild for free a few times. His fork started out with a piggyback on the left side of the lowers (one of the first DH forks form BOS) and has rebuild to a RaRe idyle.

  77. #177
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    Woahhhh yeah Baby, my Spitfire has landed in Germany and is on itīs way

  78. #178
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    any idea when the US guys will be getting the replacement frames?

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Woahhhh yeah Baby, my Spitfire has landed in Germany and is on itīs way
    You lucky dog and earlier than I expected

    Mandatory pics and frame weight will be required or it didn't happen
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    Don't do it!

    When I got my Cotic this summer (with a Stoy as an upgrade), not only did BOS send the wrong weight spring, they'd fitted offset bushings. When I contacted R53 I found that they didn't deal with BOS anymore and had to go to BOS direct.

    BOS could apparently not care less about having me as a customer. They weren't interested in swapping or even just taking back the spring and bushings, the only correct weight spring they had was used, but I couldn't have a discount, even used it was full price or nothing.

    When it turned up not only was it used (visible wear, numbers/markings long gone), it was the wrong length and didn't fit the shock. So I called quits and got a Manitou spring.

    On the phone to them the whole impression I got was that I was some kind of annoyance for daring to ask for what I had paid for, nevermind that the shock was nearly Ģ600. It's gone on Ebay since then, on a Monarch RT3 now and it's really not that much better on a short travel bike.

    By contrast, I had great service from Magura this summer when the spring on my 2009, second hand Thors went pop.
    To quote Mike from Magura UK, "I've checked the serial numbers on your fork and that one came from a faulty batch, we've got a few spare springs so you can have one as a sort of good will type... thing,"
    I told them it was second hand, they still repaired it free (and I ended up buying a service anyway because I figured it could use some love).

    So, I strongly advise against BOS, it isn't worth the hassle. I'm happy to recommend Magura though.
    You made mistake, sorry.

    You should have contacted Mad Elk Cycles, it was nothing else than excellent!

    I had long corresponence with them, they have trained in Bos facility. When they ordered rear shock to me from Bos, they had routine to go through things and found one fault on the shock and asked if they should ship the fork or I'd wait for both parts (fork and shock).

    I have contacted to R53 before and they referred to Mad Elk cycles.

    Good luck!

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    You lucky dog and earlier than I expected

    Mandatory pics and frame weight will be required or it didn't happen
    Yes mate, earlier than I have expected, too!

    Just 2 hours ago Bernhard, the german Distributor wrote via Email that the Frames have arrived today and mine is going out tomorrow.
    Of course Pictures and weight of an andodized black medium Spitfire will follow asap.

    - Fortunately it seems that I am the one of the very few with additional 650B-Dropouts at the moment.
    - Unfortunately I have to wait for the CCDB which is coming with the next Batch in January. So maybe weight may vary a bit as Iīm not sure to get all required Shockmounts at the moment. I would like to measure with 142x12 Axle and all mounting Hardware to give real Numbers ...

    To see things positive: Time to check the Spitfire with a DHX-Coil and Evolver in the meantime.
    The build-up can hopefully start the next week, as I have to wait for Fork and Angleset.

    Really so damn excited ... I am waiting for a Bike like this for more than two Years now and slowly but surely a Dream comes to Reality!

    Cheers everyone
    NoStyle

  82. #182
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    I am excited for you. I am really excited about my future build, I hope my plan to run a single ring upfront isn't to ambitious for my chubby body.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by coocoomike View Post
    any idea when the US guys will be getting the replacement frames?
    I'm curious, too. Trident sports was saying first week of December for v2 upgrades. I'm not holding my breath, but hey, who knows. Anyone know when spitfire v2s will be available for north america? And is there enough for everybody?

  84. #184
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    I suspect that you guys are only a few days away from receiving your orders ...

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    NoStyle, did you placed pre-order to dealer or how did you do it so fast?

    i had found new banshees on two german online-shops, so its looks like i can get it that way, and much faster. our russian dealer still keep the silense (((.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomasis View Post
    Good luck!
    Don't need luck, got Rockshox...

  87. #187
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    @ Logoffski
    I had placed my (Pre)-Order back in June, when the first Infos of the V2 Runes and Spitfires were seen here. At that Time the Distribution for Germany was not clear at all. Shortly after the Distribution was confirmed I got in Contact with them and ordered.
    So "fast" in my Case only means Receiving Delivery in December, not the originally stated January.

    According the Online-Shops: Shops/Dealers can only sell what is available through the Distribution, who is dependent on the manufacturer! The new Banshees were online shortly after Eurobike back in September, but that only means Pre-Order. Shipment of the Frames is right now.

    But: If buying online from a German Shop is faster than through your russian Dealer than I wouldnīt think too long and go for it.

    Or: Get in Contact with the russian Distribution and check if they can help you.

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    Don't need luck, got Rockshox...
    then I wish you good luck with Rockshox,

  89. #189
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    I might be jumping the gun a bit, but will the v2 frames ship with a seatpost and collar similar to the V1's?

  90. #190
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    Do we know the production colour options? Black, raw, and something I'm sure. (On that note - I think it should be black OR raw, plus 2 colour options)

  91. #191
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    When I placed my order for the upgrade, the guys from Banshee confirmed black, raw and red.

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    Yes mate, earlier than I have expected, too!

    Just 2 hours ago Bernhard, the german Distributor wrote via Email that the Frames have arrived today and mine is going out tomorrow.

    Really so damn excited ... I am waiting for a Bike like this for more than two Years now and slowly but surely a Dream comes to Reality!

    Cheers everyone
    NoStyle
    NoStyle (is that really true BTW) and frame yet??????
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  93. #193
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    Uhmm, there might be a little missunderstanding? Maybe from me as Iīm no native speaker

    As far as I know Banshee has developed the V2 Generation of Primes, Spitfires and Runes during the last two Years, if not longer.
    At the same Time my Riding changed towards "Trailriding", where my Wildcard has some compromises given to itīs initial Nature. So I was looking for an aggressive Bike, short(er) Travel but with DH-Geometry. The V1 Spitty was really close and shortly before I was pulling the Trigger to buy it, Iīve heard of the V2-Generation and their Features back in June - and ordered immediately.

    So I am not waiting two Years for this particular Frame! But for a kind of Bike like this - the Downhilles XC-Bike - shorter Travel, aggressive Geometry and now versatile as hell with Geo-Adjustments and Wheelsize-Options. Thatīs one of a kind!

    BTW: The Frame arrived yesterday and I will take some Pics asap. Unfortunately my Scale is damaged, so Weights will follow later ...

  94. #194
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    Spitfire quick & dirty Sneak-Peak.




  95. #195
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    wow, looking good!!!

    IM REALLY EXCITED NOW!

  96. #196
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    I cannot express in words how much I'm looking forward to seeing that built into a full bike.

  97. #197
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    beautiful.......

  98. #198
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    Very nice NS! Frame looks as least as capable as V1/1.5 Runes, but in a stiffer, overall better performing package. I have been going back and forth between the new Spitty and the Rune V2 myself as I seem to be more of a trail/AM rider these days, with a little harder riding (Enduro DH/aggro AM) come summer. The only thing holding me back on the Spitty is that I have two new'ish 8.5"x2.5" shocks laying around and no 7.875x2.25" of my liking except an old 2009 RP3 that came with first Rune (2008). So, most cost effective for me to go Rune V2 sans shock. But, man the Spitty looks to be a rippin' trail machine and more than likely more preferred ride of choice for most of the trail riding I do around here and even the whole Oregon Enduro Series here at home as well. Decision, decisions?
    Ride On!

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    oh hell yeah

  100. #200
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    Thank you, but most of all: Thank you Banshee!!! And thank you Bernhard from everyday26.de!!

    I have to wait for some Parts, so the Build will be finished hopefully around Christmas.

    New Parts will be BOS Deville 16 cm Fork, CC Angleset, SRAM X0 FD and the CCDB which comes later.
    Most Parts have to come from my Wildcard first, like Thomson Stem and Seatpost, Flite, Formula The Ones, full Shimano XT Drivetrain, Wheelset and Manitou Evolver, as long as the CCDB is on itīs way.
    So Colorsheme will be Black, White and Raw-Alu the most.
    Planned Parts in the Future will be hydraulic Seatpost (maybe X-Fusion Hilo SL), of course nice and light 650B-Wheelset for Allday-Riding and maybe upgrading to 2x10 Drivetrain.

    Comparing the Spitfire to the Wildcard is somehow funny. The Rear-Triangle features almost the same Tubing-Dimensions (Ribbed Tubes). The Front Triangle is kind of filigree and I think Rune and Wildcard-Tubing are more similar in Dimensions. Fingersnapping the Tubes makes a nice and higher "klink"-Sound, so the Spitfire Tubes seems to have reasonable Wall Thickness to withstand serious Abuse!!! Welds and Forgings are nicely done.

    Comparing Geometry is funny too. Toptubelength is closely the same, so is the Standover! The Spitfire has a remarkable longer Reach than the Wildcard - forward Geometry at itīs best.

    But thats all Theory - looking forward to build up and ride that Beauty ...

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